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 Author Thread: Obama burnout?[Thread Closed/Derailed]
 exodusi1

Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 77
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/14/2008 5:50:41 PM
But, that would also mean that McSame would have to carry VA, possible and steal IN and CO from the weak Dem category. It would also mean holding on to ALL of the weak Rep category. A daunting task for a grumpy old man!
 Pickme83

Joined: 6/13/2007
Msg: 78
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/14/2008 6:03:32 PM
Yeah it still is a daunting task if you look at the electoral maps. However, I'm a little suprised to see one so favorable to McCain. Most have McCain down by more. But I don't know how much stock to put into these polls its still a little too early. They haven't had their conventions yet.
 southernlass

Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 79
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/21/2008 6:33:00 PM
As a fire burns brightest, it tends to smolder and flicker out to ash after awhile. Much like an Obama presidency, it would appear; all luster and shine in the beginning and then faded out like one of the fourth of July fireworks.


Released: August 20, 2008
Do Obama's Sinking Poll Numbers Signal History Repeating for Democrats?
By John Zogby

As the Democrats head into their convention, should they be singing the Eurythmics 1985 hit "Here Comes That Sinking Feeling"?

Just as party leaders pack their bags for Denver, our latest Reuters/Zogby poll finds their nominee in some trouble, as Republican John McCain has taken a five-point lead over Barack Obama. That is a 12-point reversal from the survey we took for Reuters in July. Interestingly, Obama's margins among what had been his strongest demographic groups dropped by as much as 12 points. These include Democrats, women, city dwellers and younger voters - those ages 25-34. Also, Obama has lost his lead among the swing Catholic vote, dropping 11 points to McCain over a month.

What is happening is all too familiar to Democrats. McCain is using the Karl Rove playbook, attacking Obama's perceived strengths, notably his mass appeal and freshness. Democrats hoped that eight years of a failed Bush presidency (80% in our latest survey said the nation was on the wrong track) so diminished the GOP brand that "going negative" would not work again for the Republicans.

In the end, it may not. Negative campaigning did not work on either side of the aisle in the primaries and caucuses. However, clearly McCain has been the aggressor for the past month, seeing an opportunity to define Obama for General Election voters before Obama could define himself. At times, it has seemed like he has been the only one throwing any punches, especially with Obama on vacation in Hawaii.

The adulation of European crowds on Obama's overseas trip seems to have helped McCain with conservatives. They distrust Europeans and actually had the opportunity to imagine a liberal Democrat in the role of President - and didn't like the thought. Meanwhile, Obama's attempts at flexibility on issues dear to liberals and young voters (Iraq and FISA) may have dampened their enthusiasm.

Choosing August for a vacation proved inopportune for Obama. August has been cruel to Democrats in the past. That is the month when Jimmy Carter, Mike Dukakis and John Kerry all went down in the polls.

As much as voters may prefer the Democrats on most issues, McCain is winning the contest of defining who has the character and personality that swing voters expect in a President. Obama appeals to the mind. McCain goes for the gut.

McCain's war record and well-established image as a maverick Republican make it tough for Obama to assail McCain the man. Obama's rhetoric this week shows he recognizes that his issues appeal must become more aggressive and emotional. With 48% of our poll respondents citing the economy as the most important issue, Obama is hitting hard at the GOP record on job losses. He clearly has work to do. Our Reuters/Zogby poll released Wednesday shows more voters trust McCain to deal effectively with economic issues.

Obama must convince voters that he is on their side. While it may be difficult to measure, race complicates that task with white voters, especially older people. Some believe that McCain has already injected racial innuendo into the campaign. The non-partisan David Gergen said on ABC: " . . . as a native of the south, I can tell you, when you see this Charlton Heston ad, 'The One,' that's code for, 'he's uppity, he ought to stay in his place.' " Obama partisans also saw race as the subtext of two McCain ads: one that featured Brittany Spears and Paris Hilton, and another that showed several young white women praising Obama.

But when Obama responded to these ads by saying McCain was trying to frighten voters, and adding that he did not look like other Presidents on dollar bills, voters judged Obama negatively and felt he was the one bringing race into the campaign.

It may happen that independent expenditure groups - those so-called "527s" - will raise the racial ante. If they do, Obama may be forced to follow the model set by Jackie Robinson, who ignored taunts in order to succeed as Major League baseball's first African-American.

His vice-presidential pick and the convention now give Obama the opportunity to restore his image as an agent of positive change who would inspire the nation to act. It will be a tall order. But let's not forget - it was the electric Obama speech at the Democratic convention four years ago that got this whole presidential campaign started in the first place.
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 80
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/23/2008 6:13:51 PM
Obama/Biden or Biden/Obama who cares it is a winner.
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 81
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/23/2008 6:21:19 PM
Yes, I will drink the kool aid with pride. Obama/Biden is a GREAT ticket!
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 82
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/23/2008 6:39:19 PM
The thread is entitled 'Obama burnout' it does not say pro or con Obama burn out.

Obama/Biden 08
 boredbroad

Joined: 4/3/2008
Msg: 83
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/23/2008 8:52:17 PM
Obama / Biden ..... Bad choice !!! ...... Obama .... captured our youth , and many with his speeches about ...... CHANGE !!! ..... Choosing Biden .... put great doubt in the hearts of our youth and others ..... as it should have ..... I for one ......... am very disappointed .
It just shows .... his insecurity.
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 84
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/23/2008 9:43:40 PM
If the interest in Obama is somehow "burnt out" , why has he lead the race against McCain for so long.

Look at the RCP average chart again, over time :

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/
general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#chart


Look how many times McCain's actually been in the lead, or even close. This guys been around for a quarter century, he's a household name, and he's not able to hold a lead against Obama for any length of time - since September last year ?

Not a good sign, especially running against someone who is brand new.

Follow their charts, and you will see a pattern occurring over and over again. McCain's is an erratic one, zooming up and then crashing back down again - sometimes far deeper than he was to start with.

Lately, in the last phase, both candidates have risen in fallen in a linked way, like you see happening now. Those peaks and valleys are occurring to both of them at the same time. Right now, as I write this, they are BOTH dropping.

This isn't a good time to be a Republican, all across the land, and we've seen a long recent history of defeat for them in every Congressional election held.

Perhaps the better question is why isn't McCain doing as well as Bush was, in the last election ? McCain's a far stronger candidate than Bush (especially after the Iraq war) yet those 2004 numbers for Republicans are nowhere near as strong for him.

He's not leading the race rhetorically in any way, he's always reacting to Obama.

The demographics , the ones that will decide this election, are not in his favor.

His support with Hispanics is less than Obama, even Cuban-American ones. That's not something that's expected of a Republican candidate.

His chances of connecting with African-American voters is slim to none - against Obama.

Ditto for the youth vote, which should rise well over it's 2004 figures with newly signed up voters.

The female vote may have a hard time choosing someone who wants to repeal Roe vs Wade.

So for one to conclude there's an Obama "burn out" , you must turn your back on all these considerations whilst doing so. This presumption may indeed lead to a great surprise in November.

I certainly would not underestimate any of these things, if I was a McCain supporter.
 geeleebee

Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 85
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/23/2008 9:59:23 PM
Wow--how very open of you, RenMan.
Montreal~I keep reading your posts, which I find elucidating and informative. I appreciate the 'outsider' perspective.
So, there you have it--two U.S. citizens on both sides of your fence!
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 86
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/23/2008 10:02:17 PM

Since you mentioned "real clear politics", the last assessment of the electoral college, had McCain ahead by 147 electoral votes, and a dead heat in the popularity vote.


REALLY ?


Barack Obama 228 183 Solid 45 Leaning

John McCain 174 139 Solid 35 Leaning

Toss Up 136

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/


Where's that 147 vote electoral lead again, exactly ?

Obama's leading in overall states, solid states , and leaning states.

To get the majority, 270 votes, McCain has to hold every single one of the states he now has a lead in (solid and leaning) , and get 96/136 toss up states.

Obama, if he does the same, has to get 42/136.

As for a dead heat, Obama's still two points ahead in the latest two, and 1.6 ahead in the RCP average.
 boredbroad

Joined: 4/3/2008
Msg: 87
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/23/2008 10:15:38 PM
MG .... Please bring your facts up to date ........
 jack-d-ripper

Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 88
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/24/2008 6:48:13 AM
.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=10

No toss up option.....

Barack Obama 264 John McCain 274

With Romney Mich 17 votes would go to McCain........

291...........

Land Slide Obama?

There should be not contest....... But

the Dem's chose to become the Anti-Clinton Party.......


 Apologist~D.A

Joined: 2/28/2008
Msg: 89
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/24/2008 6:53:55 AM
Let us all lay down our "I'm right you dork!" cards and be reasonable.
This election will be won by maybe hundreds of votes. Millions of Americans will be shocked on the night we receive our new leader. (hell maybe even me)
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 90
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/24/2008 12:10:14 PM
Thought you went through burn out before. Now, you are about to be burned at the stake with Obama/Biden
 Barbe1963

Joined: 9/30/2007
Msg: 91
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/24/2008 12:18:42 PM
interesting analogy? So, are you saying that Obama and Biden are about to be burned at the stake, or are you saying that people who are not supporting Obama and Biden are going to get burned at the stake?
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 92
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/24/2008 12:21:02 PM
No, I am saying this ticket is so HOT anyone that tries to touch it needs to step back. We finally have a voice!
 Barbe1963

Joined: 9/30/2007
Msg: 93
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/24/2008 12:24:36 PM
ah I see, well good for you, it's great that you are so excited and just wait, the convention hasn't even started yet. You are probably going to self combust here by this time next week. Keep a hose on stand by.
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 94
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/24/2008 12:30:34 PM
I probably will self combust. I feel like I am now. Barbe,you just do not know. This is like the French revolution. Better yet, the American Revolution 21st century style. We are standing up!

McCain/Romney do not represent the people. They represent the ruling class.

I know people are going to argue that Obama and Biden are both rich (and this is true), but they both remember where they came from and have spent their lives (short or long) fighting for the common man and woman. Yes, many of us are truly happy!
 MacKevinized

Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 95
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/24/2008 12:38:21 PM

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=10

No toss up option.....

Barack Obama 264 John McCain 274


Go see an eye doctor that page says

Obama 273 , McCain 265 today 8/24/08

If you go a bit further in your research you'll find Obama has signed up way more new democrats and republicans are losing voters.

 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 96
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/24/2008 1:11:26 PM
McCain also has to worry about Bob Barr, who may draw off enough votes to really effect the election. That's something you don't see , when you do a straight up McCain/Obama comparison in a poll.

Call it the "Revenge of the Nader effect".


Press Releases › McCain and Republican Party Try to Block Barr From Ballot

August 21, 2008 3

Atlanta, GA - Bob Barr's presidential campaign has recently learned of an action by the McCain campaign and the Pennsylvania Republican Party to have Barr removed from the state's ballot, this despite McCain's promise in the 2000 election that he would, "never consider, ever consider, allowing a supporter of [his] to challenge [his opponent]'s right to be on the ballot in all 50 states.''

In 2000, McCain told reporters, ''Let's not have the kind of Stalinist politics that the state of New York, the Republican Party, has been practicing."

"This move by the McCain campaign completely contradicts everything John McCain stood for in 2000 when his competitors were trying to keep him off the ballot," says Barr. "McCain has become a part of the same corrupted machine he spoke vehemently against only eight years ago."

"This is America, where people have a right to run for office and a right to compete for the chance to lead the people of this nation," Barr continues. "I look forward to the chance to compete fairly against Senator McCain for votes in Pennsylvania and every other state."

In a recent email to supporters, Barr's campaign manager, Russell Verney, stated that McCain's attempt to block Barr from the ballot is one "you might expect of a dictator in North Korea, Libya, China, or Iran." Verney, who also was the campaign manager for Ross Perot, called the plot "a blatantly hypocritical move."

"This move is certainly one of the more brazen attempts to lock me out of the political process," explains Barr. "But it is simply just one more example of how the political establishment desperately clings to their own power instead of empowering the people. The political establishment serves only themselves and not the people of this nation. It is time candidates for the most powerful position in the world compete based on ideas and not dirty politics."

"I challenge Senator McCain to forcefully and publicly instruct his agents to drop the lawsuit," says Barr.


http://www.bobbarr2008.com/press/press-releases/98/
mccain-and-republican-party-try-to-block-barr-from-ballot/


Someone seems worried, I think.

Barr is getting something like five percent , in some of the polls I've read.

If McCain WASN'T worried, he would not be trying to stop him so forcefully.
 Reddwine

Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 97
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/24/2008 2:24:08 PM
People in general, are sick of hearing about change and not speaking about substance.


If McCain WASN'T worried, he would not be trying to stop him so forcefully.


isnt this called 'a race' ?
 exodusi1

Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 98
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/24/2008 2:46:04 PM
They had to move the acceptance speech to the Bronco's stadium, because they needed the 76,000 seats! Doesn't sound like burnout to me!

I hear they're moving McCain's acceptance speech to the Penthouse at the Hilton, because dozens are expected to show up.

Thus far 8 republican Senators have declined to show up at the rnc convention. . . That is 20% no show! Of course, they'll have Liberman. . .

76,000

Does that not sound like there's a bit of excitement for a change?
 southernlass

Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 99
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/25/2008 7:47:14 AM
Sounds like a lot of excitement, Exi. Shame it's not reflected in Obama's polling numbers. CNN has him in a dead heat now with McCain. And the pundits are saying that "it's beginning to look ominous for Obama."


Poll: Race for White House tiedStory Highlights
CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll shows Obama and McCain tied at 47 percent

66 percent of Clinton supporters are now backing Obama

54 percent say choosing Biden as running mate is an "excellent" or "good decision"

DENVER, Colorado (CNN) -- It's a dead heat in the race for the White House.
Both John McCain and Barack Obama had the support of 47 percent of people questioned in the CNN poll. The first national poll conducted after Barack Obama publicly named Joe Biden as his running mate suggests that the battle for the presidency between the Illinois senator and John McCain is all tied up.

In a new CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll released Sunday night, 47 percent of those questioned are backing Obama, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominees, with an equal amount supporting his Republican opponent, McCain.

"This looks like a step backward for Obama, who had a 51 to 44 percent advantage last month," said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "Even last week, just before his choice of Joe Biden as his running mate became known, most polls tended to show Obama with a single-digit advantage over McCain."

So what's the difference now?

It may be supporters of Hillary Clinton, who still would prefer the New York senator and former first lady as the Democratic Party's presidential nominee. Watch are Clinton backers on board? »

Sixty-six percent of Clinton supporters -- registered Democrats who want Clinton as the nominee -- are now backing Obama. That's down from 75 percent in the end of June. Twenty-seven percent of them now say they'll support McCain, up from 16 percent in late June.

"The number of Clinton Democrats who say they would vote for McCain has gone up 11 points since June, enough to account for most, although not all, of the support McCain has gained in that time," Holland said.


Clinton and Obama battled throughout the primary season, with Clinton winning more than 40 percent of the delegates. She suspended her bid for the White House and backed Obama in early June, after the end of primary season.

The majority of registered voters, 54 percent, say Obama's choice of Biden, D-Delaware, as his running mate is an "excellent" or "good decision." That number jumps to 73 percent when just asked of registered Democrats. But it drops to 59 percent when narrowed to Clinton supporters. Watch more on the new VP candidate »

"It's not that there's anything wrong with the choice of Joe Biden. A majority rate the Biden selection as excellent or pretty good. Voters think he is qualified to be president, and with the exception of Al Gore in 1992, the public ranks Biden as the most qualified running mate in recent times," Holland said. Watch more on Biden and the road ahead »

"A lot of Americans don't know who he is, but his favorable rating is 13 points higher than his unfavorables. But Biden is not Hillary Clinton, and it's possible that is enough to have moved some of her supporters away from the Democratic ticket, at least temporarily," says Holland. Among all Democrats, only 38 percent say Obama should have selected Clinton as his running mate.

Still, 74 percent of all voters questioned in the survey said Obama's selection of Biden as a running mate won't have any effect on their vote for president.

The poll was conducted on Saturday and Sunday, with 1,023 adult Americans questioned by telephone. The survey's sampling error is plus or minus 3.5 percentage points for all voters. For registered Democrats, it is plus or minus 4.5 percentage points, and for Democrats who still support Clinton for the party's nomination, it is plus or minus 7.5 percentage points.
 MacKevinized

Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 100
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/25/2008 8:29:36 AM

So, when the polls come out as "even", it almost certainly means that, as of today, McCain would win by 4%-5%. Of course, the poll numbers will go up and down over the next two weeks with the conventions, and so on. Kerry was leading by nearly 10% at this point 4 years ago, for example. Democrats tend to slide, as we get closer to the election. That's been true in every Presidential race going back to Jimmy Carter.


What's really ominus for McCain is that the polls don't reflect all the newly registered democrats as they use cell phones and the new VoIP telephone lines.

Cell Phones and VoIP lines don't get those annoying pollsters as much as land lines and simply can't be counted in the polling.

another problem is the pollsters that advertise to give the results you ask for. When zogby and rasmussen get paid to deliver the results you pay for, they can simply call their republican buddies up and say what do you think? Then of course your going to get a majority of results favoring the republicans and they are so skewed, they make the averages look close.

When you base a poll on collecting 1000-2000 respondents, they are not even worth quoting except if you are a media outlet looking to sell advertising. Then you'll want to apease your viewers so they buy products from the advertisers and you'll want to apease the advertisers too.

Advertisers know the democratic base is made up of middle and lower class people that will have trouble affording those products anyway because of what the republicans have done.
 exodusi1

Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 101
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Obama burnout?
Posted: 8/25/2008 9:46:05 AM
neocons are NOT an authority on who is and isn't a "liberal!"

If you think Obama is a "radical liberal," then you really don't understand the semantics of the political spectrum!
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