| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 1:30:34 PM | Im not saying i dont of course i have to look after myself and i do which is why, thank god, nothing like that has happened to me
the point is i shouldnt have to watch my back for any perv forcing himself on me...this new ruling is undermining the victims and frankly suggesting that if a woman is drunk...its a less serious crime which it ISNT | |
|
| |
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 1:33:19 PM | Good point Macforty. So then, as a result of that, I am taking some gay friends to Sanguis's town. When he shows his face dressed 'provocatively' jeans and T shirt is what they like, we're gonna follow him to town, wait til he's sh1tfaced then buttfcuk him all night cos he asked for it :)
During all this of course I will be chatting some local hottie up who's graciously worn her short skirt and see thru knickers ... just for my benefit of course :)
There is a principle here. Insurance companies won't cover you for burglary if you left your windows open. Of course you wouldn't do that.
There are certain areas men and women will not walk at night, they know they risk a mugging.
The principle is called minimising risk. No-one is saying rape or any other crime is right, they're saying in this world you have to protect yourself from it.
Sadly, only the last couple of years I agree with that. | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 1:33:20 PM | I agree but on the flip side she also has the duty of care to self .
If an Insurance company had to insure her against rape would they pay out knowing that she was obliterated on booze and had a blackout in a hotel room with three strangers ?
Excuse me Mr Mac but are you saying that a woman passed out on a bed with alcohol is fair game to be ****ed? Next time a man is passed out does that mean hes fair game to be ****ed too by some guy with a huge****or a woman with a dildo???? Get a grip for god sake. This is sexism to an extreme!
EDIT: looks like mavis beat me to it! | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 1:35:05 PM | Am i reading this right???
If a woman spends all night consenting to it, if she's drunk and the other person's sober it doesn't count, it's still rape. Even if the bloke said "I'm sorry, you're too drunk, you'll regret it.", but she persists to the point where he caves in. That's still rape if the woman wants to think of it that way and take it to court.
Dress yourself provocatively, spend all night chatting up the wrong person because you're too drunk to make accurate judgements, then whilst you don't deserve it, you're not exactly making it difficult to be raped. Like I said, alcohol removes all situational awareness. It's difficult to say "No." when you're looking at someone through beer googles and the alcohol's removing the part of you what would say "No.", so when your consent is invalid and you claim it as rape, do you deserve the full compensation?
If a woman says NO....no matter what state she is in...then she obviously comprehends that the situation is wrong and she doesnt agree with it!
She could be "lying on a park bench with her legs in the air" as someone so kindly put it before...... and have her knickers round her head....or whatever....she is obviously in a state of drunkiness and wouldnt be in that position if she werent.....but that gives NO man the right to touch her...if she says NO it is considered rape....and you have no right to judge others because of the way they dress!
I for one wouldnt be asking for compensation if it were me that were raped.....i would consider it dirty money....but for the ones who do seek it....why the fcuk should it be reduced if they were wearing a mini skirt. And as far as im aware...."most 97% of callers to Rape Crisis Lines knew their assailant prior to the assault".....so they could've been wearing the biggest baggiest chavviest trackie and it still would've happened! | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 1:35:19 PM |
this new ruling is undermining the victims and frankly suggesting that if a woman is drunk...its a less serious crime which it ISNT
You have that wrong, this isnt a new ruling. This was something that some pencil neck behind a desk got completely wrong and the courts have told them so. You are entitled to full compensation now...however you do still have to apply for your case to be reviewed.
The victim is the person who has been raped. They aren't fair game, any more than someone lying drunk in the gutter is fair game for a good kicking or for setting alight to - or for rape.
All that has happened in this situation was some tw@t, with a similar "They asked for it" attitude as have some on here, has been implementing their own agenda. This has been exposed and stopped. | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 1:37:39 PM | Excuse me Mr Mac but are you saying that a woman passed out on a bed with alcohol is fair game to be ****ed? Next time a man is passed out does that mean hes fair game to be ****ed too by some guy with a huge****or a woman with a dildo???? Get a grip for god sake
Where have I said that ?
I am saying we ALL have a duty of care to ourselves first and foremost !!
This is sexism to an extreme!
And again where ?
At the points where you state SHE and HER my dear!
Hyper sensitivity again ....................Considering the OPs high lighted case is female based I saw no reason not to extend on this!!
VVVVVVVV | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 1:40:06 PM |
I agree but on the flip side she also has the duty of care to self .
If an Insurance company had to insure her against rape would they pay out knowing that she was obliterated on booze and had a blackout in a hotel room with three strangers ?
Oh dear is this going to become macforty and krusty point scoring again? I do hope not. You ask me where? At the points where you state SHE and HER my dear! | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 1:50:58 PM | | It's not sexism. It's a universal held fact. Saying you should be able to get pissed wearing a short skirt is no different to saying you should be able to go out and leave your front door open. Yes you should,but these days we know you can't. | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 1:53:46 PM | What a load of tosh!
If at the moment of penetration, a burd changes her mind - you don't stop then 'tis rape.
Compensation is a monetary thing - not going to take back the abuse of power. For power is what this about. Some confuse rape and sex - rarely are the two related. Why reward fiscally someone who has been such trauma? Should the money be better spent on educating or incarcerating the offender('s)?
Could the lure of recompense be enough to cause a person of dubious morals to cry 'rape?'
Food for thought?
Girl provoked pedophile - judge
From correspondents in London
June 26, 2007 12:00am
Article from: The Daily Telegraph
Font size: + -
Send this article: Print Email
* 10-year-old girl was raped and assaulted
* Judge says victim 'dressed provocatively'
* Pedophile will be free in just four months
A PEDOPHILE who raped a 10-year-old girl will be free in just four months after a British judge said his victim had "dressed provocatively".
Window cleaner Keith Fenn, 24, could have been jailed for life after twice attacking the girl in a riverside park.
Judge Julian Hall was at the centre of a storm over the "pathetic" sentence he imposed after hearing the girl had appeared much older than her age.
The same judge caused uproar earlier this year by setting free another paedophile and telling him to give his victim money "to buy a nice new bicycle".
In the latest case, Oxford Crown Court heard harrowing details of the assault on the 10-year-old. She was attacked in a park in South Oxfordshire by Fenn and his accomplice Darren Wright, 34, on October 14 last year.
Fenn removed all her clothes and raped her, then Wright took her to his home and sexually assaulted her.
Yet Judge Hall said the case was exceptional because the "young woman" had been wearing a frilly bra and thong.
The girl has been in local authority care since the age of four.
She was on her own when she met the pair in the street. They went to the park together. The judge said he faced a moral dilemma.
The court heard that the girl regularly wore make-up, strappy tops and jeans.
"It is quite clear she is a very disturbed child and a very needy child and she is a sexually precocious child. She liked to dress provocatively," the judge said.
"Did she look like she was 10? Certainly not. She looked 16."
He gave Fenn concurrent two-year and 18-month sentences but he will be free in just weeks after spending eight months in jail awaiting sentence.
Wright is a free man because he too had served eight months on remand.
Yesterday Dr Michele Elliott, of Kidscape, said: "This is beyond pathetic, it is utterly derisory. For the judge to say that the way she was dressed in any way excuses a 24-year-old man having sex with her is disgraceful and ridiculous."
Fenn admitted two counts of rape of a child under 13 and Wright admitted one charge of causing or inciting sexual activity with a child aged under 13.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21969117-2,00.html | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 1:56:54 PM | so why should their compensation be cut because they had been drinking..
I'm struggling to understand why they receive "compensation" at all?
Money shouldn't come into it - it's not a form of justice in this fashion (as it's basically just a Government benefit handout), and assumedly it won't make up for the mental scarring involved...
| |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 1:59:54 PM | | because victims of crime are entitled to compensation from the criminal injuries compensation Authority and rape victims are victims of crime,sometimes a crime can be so dibilitating to its victim that their entire life changes and they cannot work or function for a long time the CICA help people through these times and I for one think a society that begrudges people money under these circumstances is a society that i don't wish to belong to https://www.cica.gov.uk/portal/page?_pageid=33,278194&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:00:07 PM | ok mr macforty lets forget male/female shall we?
Anyone male or female in your opinion is responsible for themselves I agree. I do not agree however that anyone male or female is responsible for what another does to them full stop! Regardless of dress or behaviour we are all human beings and therefore deserve the respect and consideration of another human being and that includes not being abused.
How anyone in their right mind can say that a woman/man is asking to be raped or abused in anyway is beyond me and you should all be very very ashamed of yourselves. | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:03:43 PM |
because victims of crime are entitled to compensation from the criminal injuries compensation boardand rape victims are victims of crime
I refer you to my earlier post, and the question again is begged - WHY?
and you should all be very very ashamed of yourselves.
I do not believe a 'rape victim' -
1. Deserves to raped.
2.Deserves compensation from the state.
Why should I feel ashamed? | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:08:45 PM |
I do not agree however that anyone male or female is responsible for what another does to them full stop! Regardless of dress or behaviour we are all human beings and therefore deserve the respect and consideration of another human being and that includes not being abused.
I agree ???
How anyone in their right mind can say that a woman/man is asking to be raped or abused in anyway is beyond me and you should all be very very ashamed of yourselves.
I agree again ???
ok mr macforty lets forget male/female shall we?
I did ???
I'm not sure on what point you are actually disagreeing with me on ?
 | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:12:22 PM | The fact is that I am very sure the money doesnt solve anything...the fact is that rape is not punished harshly enough...
omg I read the post about the ten year old...a ten year old ressing provocativly wot was she wearing a swim suit...that is the most appauling ruling I have ever heard!!! That poor child...
It seems to me that, having lived with the consequences of rape (not me my younger sister) and seeing someone walking around as if dead, honestly that was the first time i understood the expression dead behind the eyes. It haunts me to this day. In my opinion there should be far worse punishments for rape | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:16:01 PM | If a woman says NO....no matter what state she is in...then she obviously comprehends that the situation is wrong and she doesnt agree with it!
She could be "lying on a park bench with her legs in the air" as someone so kindly put it before...... and have her knickers round her head....or whatever....she is obviously in a state of drunkiness and wouldnt be in that position if she werent.....but that gives NO man the right to touch her...if she says NO it is considered rape....and you have no right to judge others because of the way they dress!
I for one wouldnt be asking for compensation if it were me that were raped.....i would consider it dirty money....but for the ones who do seek it....why the fcuk should it be reduced if they were wearing a mini skirt. And as far as im aware...."most 97% of callers to Rape Crisis Lines knew their assailant prior to the assault".....so they could've been wearing the biggest baggiest chavviest trackie and it still would've happened! [/quote
FFS Just re-read what I wrote. I'm not saying if she says "No." Perhaps bold and caps might make the point a bit clearer.
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO LEGALLY CONSENT IF YOU ARE DRUNK AND THEY ARE NOT. SHE CAN SAY "YES" ALL SHE WANTS, SO LONG AS HE'S SOBER, IN THE EYES OF THE COURT, IT IS RAPE. THIS MEANS IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THE WOMAN TO USE THIS AGAINST THE "RAPIST" IF SHE SO WISHES.
Clearer? | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:22:23 PM |
In my opinion there should be far worse punishments for rape
It's a very contentious issue, if it was proved 'beyond any doubt' then castration should be compulsory......... but it is not often that it is proved beyond doubt, in fact it's not very often that it is actually reported as a previous poster mentioned, the legal system still has a long way to go on 'rape' trials sadly. | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:26:28 PM | I know that the law isnt particulary helpful and rape is one of the hardest cases to take to court. I have been through 2 and currently going through a third.
I will say that there have been recent changes to the sexual offenses act so that its easier for people with menatl illnesses to report and prosecute rape...a long time coming thank god its happening now | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:26:44 PM |
I agree but on the flip side she also has the duty of care to self .
If an Insurance company had to insure her against rape would they pay out knowing that she was obliterated on booze and had a blackout in a hotel room with three strangers ?
Right so please explain what you meant by this further then in light of your last post. Apologies if I have misunderstood this to mean that a woman who is drunk and in a hotel room with three blokes who happen to be strangers is a 'bad risk'?? I am sorry but you are clearly saying that she is IMHO. It has no bearing on her consumption of alcohol as to whether she has been raped or not. It really is that simple! You are saying that they are a bad risk, in other words something that they are doing has a bearing on what will happen to them. That is the point I am disagreeing with you on. | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:32:29 PM | There was a case once, girl went to boys flat in Uni, she knew only his first name. Asked if she could give him oral sex. He agreed and she did it there and then on the sitting room floor.
Halfway through he decides to have sex with her.
She later reported him for rape.
He was sentenced to that, but his sentence was reduced due to her provocation.
Womens' centres said he should have respected the act she wished to do only, the judge said she had put herself in a difficult and extremely provocative situation.
Ultimately you can't force upon a person something that is against their will and will cause them harm. (Well unless you're a Govt) but neither can you put yourself in situations of high risk and not take some responsibility.
How you dress is irrelevant. It's the situation you put yourself in and how you conduct yourself.
That's sad, but it's true of any crime not just rape.
I'm willing to bet that the girl who offered the student oral sex would remember to take her handbag out of the car as she knows it would have been stolen, so not moving it means she would have contributed to the theft. We know that's wrong really and it's not her fault, but that's the way it is these days. | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:42:52 PM | Apologies if I have misunderstood this to mean that a woman who is drunk and in a hotel room with three blokes who happen to be strangers is a 'bad risk'??
IMHO it is a bad risk and also a risk that i doubt she would have taken if sober.It does not give anybody the right to rape her though.
We as women have a responsibility for our own safety.Drinking until we pass out is not taking appropriate responsibility.This by no means though gives any man drunk/sober or just damn fookin stupid an automatic right to violate us.
With regards to compensation,rape is an attack.If somebody who has been drinking alcohol is mugged in the street and the attacker is found guilty then the victim is likely to recieve compensation,why should this be any different?. | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:46:21 PM | Right Kath, it doesn't give them that right. So therefore if she is drunk it should have no bearing on her being raped/abused in the eyes of the law.
To say a woman is a greater risk due to being drunk is putting the responsibility onto the woman NOT the man who has raped/abused her IMHO. | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 2:54:11 PM | But a woman is at greater risk of being raped whilst drunk.
- It's harder to say no.
- You're easily persuaded.
- Even if you do give consent, if the "rapist" is sober, your consent doesn't count in court because you're incapable of making sound judgements. To give consent, you have to be in a sound state of mind.
- You're physically easier to manipulate.
- Beer goggles.
- It's easier to say "No.", stick by that and enforce it if you're sober.
- If you're blind drunk to the point that you're just a stumbling mess, pract'ly anyone could rape you if they wanted to and your sober friends weren't looking out for you.
If the drinker was more responsible with their drink, they probably never would've been raped because they'd've been less... drunk.
I'm not saying that it's not the rapists fault, because in every respect, it is, but that's not to say a lack of awareness and responsibility didn't greatly assist in the rape being possible.
Rape's wrong, on every level it's possible to be wrong. If I had my way, I'd have a lot of fun with rapists, razor blades and a vat of salt. | |
|
| Rape victims compensation cut because they had been drinking
Posted: 8/12/2008 3:07:20 PM | | I agree and disagree with you there sanguis. Yes being drunk does mean that your defenses are down but RAPE is RAPE. We are not talking about a woman having sex and then feeling like she shouldn't have the next day, which yes does happenand that isn't rape. What we are talking about here is someone forcing sex with someone who is not consenting and who forceably takes what wasn't theirs to take regardless of the state that the person was in. If the woman/man has said NO then it is rape. I will not apologise anymore for my viewpoint that alcohol should have no bearing on whether a rape has been committed or to what level the compensation should be. I see it to be quite clear cut though yes it is difficult for a woman to prove as such and unfortunately many woman will not come forward due to this. | |
|
Home
login 
