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iris43
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Joined: 4/20/2007
Msg: 26 | |
| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/13/2008 3:45:39 PM | Let's face it there is chronic abuse and there is two people that just bring out the worst in each other never to abuse again. My ex openingly admitted to slapping his previous girlfriend around when she became abusive with him. I was with him for 13 years and he never ever laid a hand on me nor did I ever fear he would. Some people have toxic relationships and bring out the worst in each other and don't know how to have a fair fight/disagreement.....usually they have been spoiled,emotionally immature and have very entitled attitude a lot of addiction problems.
I have been a toxic relationshp for about 6 months he was emotionally manipulative about 41/2 months in....when we fought I never felt so completley frustrated I found myself acting and behaving in a way that I had never before.....he brought the worst out in me. I'm a harmonious typy of person and like to solve problems in a adult like manner...he was the opposite you could not have a disagreement without him becoming very defensive, irrational and emotionally manipulative, he refused to see things from my perspective and could never validate any feelings I may have had. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/13/2008 4:48:43 PM |
do most abusers just keep going through victims until they find one that puts up with it in the long term. Not from what I've seen. They usually just hop from one to the next. They don't "quit" being abusive, they only take breaks. Now if they get treatment, they have a pretty good chance of beating it. If they are left, and there are children involved, the anger is usually transferred to them. Ya, sucks eh? For the most part, physical abusers usually end up in jail, because it's progressive and it gets more violent, as does their ambivalence about it.
As for abuse other than the violent type, it is usually present and visible their whole lives. If you're of supremely strong character, and if you're desperate for a mate, and have the patience of a saint, and you're a rescuer too boot, you'll babysit them your whole life. But at some point, you're probably going to get sick of it and leave, or do something to put the relationship in jeopardy (affair, start drinking, or worse).
For every abusive person who is kicked to the curb, there is a mate who did it. Both single and looking for more people to abuse or enable. lol.
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As for those bashing on wowsad's post, shame on you. When I was a little kid, and there was trouble, I was told time and again to walk away. That's what you do. Abusers AND victims are SICK. Don't sugarcoat victims with your empathy. Drag 'em out by the feet and get them help if you have to, but for god sakes, quit doing the heart-to-heart crying sessions while patting them on the back telling them "there there poor dear." If you saw your friend hanging from their own rope, you'd call the cops and ambulance, regardless if she'd get mad and hate you forever right? I suspect you people have serious issues if you sit back and watch and support and kiss and hug them. Get them out first! Then you can hug and cry with them 'till they get better, or go back. Then haul them out of there again. If you're not prepared to put your friendship on the line for them, you're probably just an acquaintance.
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/13/2008 5:09:12 PM |
You have painted the abuser as a VICTIM.. the irony of your above statement is staggering
In the court system, it is often the victim who as painted as the abuser. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 9:57:44 AM | i wrote my post because i could see that this thread would go in the direction that every thread based on this subject will go in... people sit around bashing the "abusers", and nobody really says much of anything about the "victims" who choose to be in these situations. i'm not saying that kids getting molested should be blamed, but if 2 adults are in a consenting relationship, and one is unhappy... after a while, its kind of a cheap shot to keep blaming only one person in the relationship. and yes, i did write my post from the eyes of the abuser, because nobody seems to even try to understand the cycle of abuse. as i said with the personality differences of my two friends, katie and calin. people just know not to **** with calin, but for one reason or another, katie seems to always end up in these conversations with people that she doesn't want to be talking to, and she can't seem to pull herself away from it. its co-dependency, its people pleasing, its attention starvation... if i had to pick out of the two girls, which would end up being abused, it would definitely be katie.
people have tendencies, and they get exploited. sometimes the tendency is something simple, like shopping. someone offers to sell them something, and they buy it. do you blame the store? no, you blame the person for purchasing something that they didn't want. see, the "victims" that we have labeled as that, tend to find "abusers". a victim without an abuser is kinda like a car without gasoline. how many potential victims are walking around right now, and for some reason, they found a good person to be with, so we don't consider them victims. or better yet, how many potential abusers are in normal relationships, because instead of getting with somebody who is passive and attention starved like katie, they found somebody like calin who tends to not deal with anybody's bs, so they don't have the opportunity to abuse. its all trial and error. could you then say that without a willing victim, abuse wouldn't exist? if people always stood up for themselves, and didn't allow themselves to be disrespected, abusers wouldn't be able to abuse? yes, abusers will end up alone, but only if people take a stand and stop dealing with that nonsense. but instead, we have programs like abuse cellphones, because people just can't seem to get away from the cycle... but i blame the victim too. not solely, as some of you have accused, but i do put a certain amount of blame on the victim for allowing themselves to be victimized in the first place. and again, i mean 2 consenting adults, not children, not rape. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 10:20:18 AM |
but instead, we have programs like abuse cellphones, because people just can't seem to get away from the cycle
Again! Cell phones are given to abused women so they can call for help if their abuser stalks them, tries to FORCE them to return to the abusive home, tries to run them off the road, tries in some way to HARM the abused person. They are NOT given as a silent condonement of the victim returning to the abuser. They are given for the purpose of summoning the police if the abused person is accosted by their abuser. Who you prefer that they be given deadly weapons? I mean, let's face it, a bullet to the abuser's brain would certainly STOP that particular cycle of abuse, wouldn't it!?
And there are only probably a gajillion cases where the relationship started out reasonably healthy and the abuse began slowly, maybe caused by stress, maybe because the abuser developed substance abuse problems or mental health issues. It's not uncommon for someone who has a chronic illness or who becomes disabled to become angry,embittered and mean. It's not always a cut and dried case of an abuser and a victim finding each other. That mindset is way too simplistic.
Do abusers end up alone? Probably some do and probably some don't.
Cindy O | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 10:21:27 AM | i hate to disagree with you wowsad,but the majority of victims are NOT looking to get hurt,those that do usually come from homes where they were abused.in my life i have been with 2 abusers.i of course left both of them.
abusers don't come out and say "hey look I'm an abuser,wanna be my partner?"no, abusers are great con artists and usually control freaks, jealous and possessive.they treat you like gold when you first date and keep up the facade until "they have you" or "own" you.you are their piece of property to kick around anyway they please.They seek justification by verbally and mentally abusing you until you reach a point where you are actually convinced that you are not worthy of them...yes the majority have come from abusive homes,but often they are very insecure.
to answer the op's question of whether or not they end up alone?..the answer is no..i also have friends which were in abusive relationships..their ex's as well as mine find someone else quickly to replace you to fulfill their need of dominance or power over someone else..unless the new people in their lives speak with and believe the victims, the cycle will continue until the abuser admitts he has a problem and seeks professional help...similar to alcohol abuse...i found out after already committing to my husband that he had abused women in 2 past relationships so, there is no doubt in my mind his pattern of abuse will continue on with his new wife. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 10:44:47 AM | I think the problem is that sometimes people that have been abused in the past are desisnsitized to the early warning signs and disrespects. Anotherwords, what most people would find offensive, they view as normal becuase that is all they have ever seen. People coming from an abusive childhood need to educate themselves as to what normal boundaries are, and to be very vigilant as to when they are being crossed, because they don`t seem to have good judgement as to what constitutes disrespect.
They put up with too much right from the start because they saw their mom do it, walk on eggshells and were taught to cover it up and not say anything. So they accept nastiness behind closed doors as somewhat normal.
They almost go into this denial mode and block the behavior as not happening or just ignoring it because that is the way he is once in a while.
Alot of abusers are very good some of the time and use the defense, "But aren`t the good times worth it?" It`s breaking that whole drama cycle of the extremes of feeling that is hard. If you are used to this kind of drama, it also seems normal, and a normal
calm relationship may seem flat and emotionless after dealing with the highs and lows. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 11:47:53 AM | Let's say the abuser is male, there are more women per men to begin with and as you get older the ratio gets wider, so I'd say a male abuser has an infinite amount of enablers just waiting to be with him. Add to that, we aren't talking about people looking for good relationships so the standards are so low as to make it quite easy to find a new willing female to abuse than for a man looking for a good woman to have a healthy relationship with. On top of that, the good men, because there are less of them than there are good women, are taken.
Yes, I'm generalizing and probably being sexist, but I think there's a lot of truth to what I'm saying. That said, many of us are unique personalities and it's not easy to find that certain someone who's compatible LOL but seriously, the more you are sure of who you are and what you want, the more you narrow the playing field, so the less you have to pick from and so the less likely you are to finding someone suitable. Since abusers and co-dependants aren't that choosy about partners, they have a much bigger playing field.
I don't know that you need to watch out for them anymore when you are older than when you are younger, the fact is, you should always watch out for them and run like hell when you encounter one, but also you should always be aware of what you are doing if you keep attracting that sort. It's just as much about how we act and what we allow into our lives as it is about there being abusers in the world. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 12:49:54 PM | ^^ Exactly.
Just think of all the domestic disputes the cops have to deal with...
As to blame and where it lies.. clearly the abuser needs to be held accountable for their actions as abusing another is AGAINST THE LAW. They can then choose to get help for the underlying cause of their destructive behavior. Do they? Will they? A lot depends upon the abuser, the circumstances and what the consequences of their actions are.
People rarely change until life forces them to and change most definately does not occur when the abuser is able to comfortably continue... whether with the same victim or another.
The victim needs to take responsibility for their part in things, of course! That is all part of healing and in not perpetuating the pattern any longer.
But to twist things around and paint the abuser as the victim is utterly ludicrous. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 12:54:55 PM | ^^^^^I totally agree. It`s kind of like saying that all the innocent people that are killed during a war are asking for it because they live in the wrong country. It is this type of thinking that propogates the abuse and allows it to continue. If abusers were
thrown into jail on the first offense, instead of the victim covering up for them all the time, they might think about stopping. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 1:02:39 PM | | Just like everybody else, some do, some don't. Because of the control factor, I'd guess that a higher proportion of them do not end up alone. | |
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iris43
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Joined: 4/20/2007
Msg: 39 | |
| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 1:47:41 PM | Some abusers there is no help for them...if they have narcisistic pesonality disorder good luck with that one or if one is anti- social/socio-path like OJ is.... same. There is no help for these types of abusers there is a chip missing in the hardwire of their brain.
www.lovefraud.com
The woman that get involved with these men may not want to admit there culpability in it beause they are extremely charismatic and charming at first( first clue) but there are definetley red flags to weary of and we as people have to educate ourselves on these types of personality defects. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 2:04:04 PM |
Some abusers there is no help for them...if they have narcisistic pesonality disorder good luck with that one or if one is anti- social/socio-path like OJ is.
I have spiritual contacts who claim to have spoken to Nicole. She says that OJ is innocent, and that the real killer is on the loose.
You believe as you wish. I prefer to let it all go, and decide who the real abusers are in my life. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 2:11:10 PM | Wow absolutely shocking!
Abusers are not victims, perhaps they were at one time but they have chosen a coping mechanism that perpetuates the violence and damage. The idea that victims are sick people is unbelievable. Victims are groomed to be victims and some very strong women have become victims of relationship abuse. But on to the topic.
I don't know if they end up alone, part of me hopes so or even worse... I'd like to be understanding and compassionate but I simply can't find that in me them. As for if people need to be vigilantly hypersensitive so they don't end up in a relationship with someone who is an abuser I doubt it would be completely necessary. You may end up discounting someone who is really good but has a bad day or two here and there.
I think the secret to this is to really know yourself and how you can be manipulated and brainwashed. We all have a deep and undying need to love and be loved. For some it is stronger then others and as my special someone always says we need to know the difference between wishful thinking and reality. We tend to fill in the blanks already but an abuser is an expert at finding the underlying themes that they can prey upon. If we have been abused we may find someone nice but we may also think it's to good to be true and sabotage things for ourselves because we become to vigilant. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 2:23:15 PM |
If abusers were
thrown into jail on the first offense, instead of the victim covering up for them all the time, they might think about stopping.
Desert-wilflower ---> In the same paragraph where you compared abuse to innocent people in war countries, who really can't change it, to an adult who can quit a relationship, you ended with the sentence above. That sentence right there shows that there is some responsibility on the victim's side as well. By remaining in an abusive relationship and covering it up, you are enabling that situation to continue.
- Screw with me once, shame on you. Do it twice, shame on me! 
Wowsad might have a very extreme view, but I have to agree with a lot of what he said. I do not agree with the cell phone thing as a lot of women have left the situation but could be stalked by thier old abuser. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 3:20:31 PM | My point was that society as a whole promotes victims to cover up abusive behavior.
People deny that they know people who do it, victims are haranged that they didn`t deal with it sooner and when they finally do something, there is no place for victims to go as a whole, law enforcement often does not give the protection that is needed from abusers when the victim leaves. You are speaking with a woman who left an abusive police detective, who threatened to hunt me down and kill me,who because of his political connections, I could get very little if no protection. So much for our system. Unless you have been there you don`t know what victims go throught. The system is corrupt. What the H am I supposed to do? Hire a full time sharp shooter to protect myself from a cop? I left after the first hit, and I am still afraid all of these years later. No one cares.
So unless you have been through this nightmare, please don`t make all these haughty judgements. You don`t know. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 3:25:07 PM |
Unless you have been there you don`t know what victims go throught. The system is corrupt. What the H am I supposed to do? Hire a full time sharp shooter to protect myself from a cop? I left after the first hit, and I am still afraid all of these years later. No one cares.
I've been there, done that, and got the bloodstained T-shirt. I wear my heart on my sleeve, and feel all of you pain. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 3:28:00 PM | ~OT~ Abusers are only abusive when it's allowed. You are only a victim ONE time, then you are a player in the game. I'd have to agree with the logic that as we get older ~ the dating pool needs a LOT more chlorine. There will always be someone falling for the initial charm, the charismatic features of that person and there will always be those who strive for nothing more in life than control, hostility, anger and the other things that go along with abuse. Both men and women can be abusers, this is not gender specific. Do they ever end up entirely alone? The one from my past seems to find willing participants much easier than the truly good guys I know ~ very perplexing.  | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 3:37:04 PM |
I left after the first hit, and I am still afraid all of these years later. No one cares.
So unless you have been through this nightmare, please don`t make all these haughty judgements. You don`t know.
I walked away after the first shove, because I wasn't going to become a victim. I believe what wowsad is refering to is the people that will stay and let the abuse continue over and over. You left and while you are still scared, you took a step and did your part so that the vicious cycle wouldn't continue.
The same way it takes 2 to tango, if you stay in that situation where 2 consentilg adults are in a relationship and one keeps repeateadly abusing and the other ones keeps repeateadly taking the abuse, IMHO both of them are responsible to a certain degree.
Againa, that's just my opinion. I do believe you did the right thing by removing yourself from that situation.  | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 7:00:19 PM | | i'm with you crazy lilting, abusers are no longer victims..they are quite well aware of what they are doing, and continue to do so by choice...as far as a victim being a player after the first hit...that's just so not true..most often as in my case,...the abuse is gradual until it escalates into physical violence...by then the man takes complete control by belittling you as i mentioned before.when he sees you've reached a point of submission or ignore the verbal and mental abuse (which was true with me), they resort to violence to get your attention...it's not easy to leave an abuser as it's a roller coaster ride...the abuser will treat you very well for certain length of time and you believe, maybe he's changing, so your thoughts of leaving the pr**k are gone temporarily..until the cycle starts again...he finds ways to keep you from your friends and even family...all done gradually of course...it's very methodical.in a lot of cases the women don't work, so rec very little extra money from him or if they work he will want to see how much and if at all possible control that too...you have kids in tow, and nowhere to go.it's not an easy decision and if you've been there you'll know what i mean.you always have hope he will change so you hang in there even if your heart tells you otherwise. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/14/2008 11:42:34 PM | | I believe there is a difference between abusers who manage to change because they want to and because they have to. Its true that many abusers grew up in an abusive family and some people may say dont know any better but surley if you were brought up all your life seeing your father or mother being abusive to the other that would leave a scar in your mind for ever would it not?? I t would not be something you would easily forget nor would the memories of being afraid and vulnerable and unable to help. so therefore would it not make you as an adult avoid another abusive person and even being that abuser?? Meeting they're match would indeed be they're just deserts as long as there were no children involved to witness it. Abusers have a lust for power and ruein peoples lives i dont think they deserve to in happy relationships unless they change because they admit that how they treat people is evil and get prof help as a long going thing and i think only the few lucky people manage to completley change for good. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/15/2008 3:43:10 AM | | i don't think this has been mentioned,but from what i've learned about abusers who were abused when they were young, abuse is their "interpretation" of what love is, unfortunately. | |
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| Do abusers end up alone?
Posted: 8/15/2008 8:49:12 AM |
i personally see 95% of all "mental abuse" as nothing more than a coup out to get out of a marriage under the "irreconcilable differences" clause which is very broad....it allows folks to get a divorce because they don't agree on how high Microsoft stock is going to rise tomorrow...i am being serious...most ridiculous thing i ever heard of.
I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Most people who physically abuse their spouse or children are also mentally abusing them. However, many who are mentally abusive do not physically abuse. That's not to say that mental abuse doesn't have the same ill effect on people. In some ways it can be worse. Words sometimes have a longer lasting effect than a bruise or a black eye.
I don't think you have a grasp of what mental abuse really is. It's not an argument necessarily, it's what is said and how it's said .....and how often it's said. Are there people who over react to something like this? Sure. But there are also many extreme cases of mental abuse that you don't seem to understand. | |
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