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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Plastic Sturgeon
Joined: 12/5/2007
Msg: 176
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea Page 8 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
Actually, a short combat style pump shotgun makes an ideal
home defense weapon!

And heres a trick I learned a long time ago. Take some emery
paper and take the blue (If it's not stainless) off the end! It makes
the hole appear even larger and more intimidating!

After all, you really don't ever WANT to have to shoot anyone!

Far too messy, especially in the house!
 2fast4ya
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 177
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 12:38:14 PM
Bear45408 I would suggest you purchase a caliber of .38 Special or larger but that's just my opinion. Anything less is just gonna piss a would be attacker off! If you aren't very familiar with handguns then I'd also suggest a good revolver. They don't jam and they are real easy to fire. Cleaning is also very easy with a bore-snake. Just a few helpful tips for ya:wink:

Shotguns work nice too but as the above poster stated they can make a really big mess.
 Smuggler1
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 178
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 12:42:21 PM


Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)


Doing the math, that's approximately 30,000 per year.


Great statistic...

But lets throw this into the mix....

Of those 80 Americans who die from "gun violence" every year... how many of them were the initiators of the violence?? Whats the break down of the number who were, say, robbing a bank? Holding up a liquor store? Gang violence between gang members??

I think these are the points that statistics overlook. Break down that number, to find out how many innocent people died vs the number that were in the process of commiting a crime or violent act.

Based on that stat, if a police officer, or a person carrying a CWP kills an individual who is commiting a violent act, they would then be added to the number. Under the Umbrella that, " XX number of americans were killed....."

Its kind of misleading...
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 179
view profile
History
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 12:43:56 PM
YES, I have a RECOGNIZED GOD given right to have guns

Odd, I must have missed that part...

Which commandment is it that says "thou shalt bear arms"? Or is it buried somewhere deeper... something I might have overlooked in Genesis, something like:

"Then God said, Let us make man in our image ... in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them and endowed them with the right to bear arms."

Is that it?
 Smuggler1
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 180
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 12:45:34 PM

"Then God said, Let us make man in our image ... in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them and endowed them with the right to bear arms."

Is that it?


Not sure... but hey, I think you're on to something there...

Apparently everything else can be re-written, constitution, history... Lets add that to the bible so you can stop your whining!!!
 Obsidian71
Joined: 6/9/2008
Msg: 181
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 12:51:07 PM
Let's juxtapose how many people die per day from gun violence with:

The daily death toll from driving on the roads.
The daily death toll from smoking cigarettes
The daily death toll from drinking
The daily death toll from suicide

Statistics mean nothing without some sort of context.

O
 Plastic Sturgeon
Joined: 12/5/2007
Msg: 182
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 12:58:03 PM
YES, And I have often been left with the distinct impression that
those in power don't ever want to give anyone the impression,
(Through Statistics) that they are doing a poor job of law enforcement
or even worse that they really are TOTALLY incapable and probably
totally disinterested in protecting us!
 Scherri
Joined: 7/14/2008
Msg: 183
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 1:14:45 PM

Wow Scherri it must be nice to live in a perfect community such as yours where the threat of violence against you or your family is not a possibility!

You should really try living out here in the real world where people are mugged, raped, robbed, or maimed. You might just gain a new appreciation for the 2nd amendment.


I don't live in a perfect community and yes anything is possible. I was born and raised and currently reside in Detroit. I am well aware of the crimes of our world and guess what, I am not afraid! Fear doesn't thrive in me. I am not for taking away anyone’s guns. I am for strict gun control measures and do not support carrying concealed weapons. There is no need to walk around toting a gun at your side, back, sock, shoe, purse or any other place on ones person on a daily basis. I have owned a gun and have enjoyed numerous trips to the range. I believe people can own guns if they choose, but should not have permits to carry them freely. Leave it home, or to hunting or whatever recreational shooting sport you partake. And no, shooting that pesky neighbor or road hog is not a sport!
 2fast4ya
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 184
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 1:18:11 PM
I don't live in a perfect community and yes anything is possible. I was born and raised and currently reside in Detroit. I am well aware of the crimes of our world and guess what, I am not afraid! Fear doesn't thrive in me. I am not for taking away anyone’s guns. I am for strict gun control measures and do not support carrying concealed weapons. There is no need to walk around toting a gun at your side, back, sock, shoe, purse or any other place on ones person on a daily basis. I have owned a gun and have enjoyed numerous trips to the range. I believe people can own guns if they choose, but should not have permits to carry them freely. Leave it home, or to hunting or whatever recreational shooting sport you partake. And no, shooting that pesky neighbor or road hog is not a sport!

I'll be sure to pass that memo on to the thugs so they leave their guns at home too
 Smuggler1
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 185
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 1:19:47 PM

should not have permits to carry them freely


Obviously you have a reason for saying this... Mind if I ask what it is??

why do you not wish to allow others the freedom to do as they wish?? I dont suppose that you would appreciate it if someone were advocating that you NOT be given the freedom to carry a purse...
 Scherri
Joined: 7/14/2008
Msg: 186
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 1:35:05 PM
The thugs can do as they please, if they want to carry weapons they do and will. That doesn't scare me or lead me to believe I have to be ready for an attack at all times. Get a grip,(not on the gun, lol) and have faith in something other than yourself and the ability to aim and fire.
 Lostcauz
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 187
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 6:46:51 PM
I haven't taken the time to read through all 8 pages of posts in this thread. So, please forgive me, if I raise a point of contention that has already been addressed.

Murder is the LEAST PREVENTABLE CRIME THERE IS.

If someone takes a notion to kill someone, they're going to do it.

The two incidents cited, that started this discussion, both invovled individuals who had permits to carry concealed weapons, and VIOLATED THE LAW. They were both arrested, and CHARGED WITH VIOLATING THE LAW. The fact that they both had concealed carry permits, is irrelevant. They each committed a crime, and have been charged with their respective crimes.

There are an infinite number of people who are murdered by many different means, every day. I don't hear any hue and cry for the removal of all bottles, cars, and all other implements used to commit murder to be regulated, and removed from every day society.

In the US, we have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms; this right was most recently affirmed in the US Supreme Court, in the Heller case.

Do whatever it takes for those of you against guns to get over it. ALL US citizens have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

ALL US citizens also have a perfect right to leave the US; exercise that right.

Given the posts from our neighbors up North, it sounds as if that might be a place where you might find some comfort.
 Smuggler1
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 188
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 6:47:48 PM

have faith in something other than yourself


Oh really...

If you do not have faith in yourself, just who are you going to have faith in???

LOL.... since you brought up faith, and a previous poster suggested the bible.... remember... God helps those who help themselves...

I gotta say though.... Im glad I have guns and Im sure the Thugs around your neighborhood are glad you dont have faith in yourself enough to provide your own protection....
 forum_moderator
Joined: 1/24/2003
Msg: 189
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History
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 8:05:46 PM


*Flaming and Flame-baiting posts removed. Posters are reminded to address the topic, not each other.* TheMadFiddler - PoF Forum Moderator
 mellowhnst
Joined: 7/21/2008
Msg: 190
view profile
History
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 8:50:01 PM
Cars kill many more people every year than guns. You can't fix stupid.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 191
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 10:16:18 PM

Cars kill many more people every year than guns. You can't fix stupid.


Nope. Sure can't. You can't fix stupid by giving it a gun either. No sirree!!!
 maxxoccupancy
Joined: 2/5/2007
Msg: 192
view profile
History
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/25/2008 11:53:26 PM
Cities, states, and countries that have disarmed their people have generally seen a rise in violent crime rates. Jamaica, Australia, Canada, and Britain disarmed their people, and all saw increases in violent crime; as did Maryland, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachusetts, and the cities of Chicago, San Francisco, and Washington, D.C. The last example is perhaps the most tragic, as the District of Columbia saw the most dramatic increase in homicides after removing one of the key deterrents to crime--that is, the fear that criminals will encounter and armed citizen.

Are police more trustworthy than private citizens? Well, police officers are private citizens who've been through training and indoctrination that many would consider less than healthful to the general public. The accidental shooting rate for private citizens is 1.2%, still too high. For law enforcement (previously referred to as peace officers), that figure is roughly 12%, or ten times as high. Retired officers have been warning that the profession and expectations are changing, that cops are being encouraged to use excessive force, to lie, and to write up tickets even when in doubt.
 Scherri
Joined: 7/14/2008
Msg: 193
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/26/2008 8:24:16 AM

Oh really...

If you do not have faith in yourself, just who are you going to have faith in???

LOL.... since you brought up faith, and a previous poster suggested the bible.... remember... God helps those who help themselves...

I gotta say though.... Im glad I have guns and Im sure the Thugs around your neighborhood are glad you dont have faith in yourself enough to provide your own protection....


It is appropiate when quoting a person, to include the entire statement that is made as to not lose the meaning of their statement. Chopping of half of the statement sometimes loses its meaning, and when that occurs one should include the entire statement. Otherwise there is no need to quote, simply paraphrase their statement.

I have faith in myself and God-although I am not christain. I realize there is crime in the world, as I stated before I live in Detroit, but don't live my life in fear, nor am I depedent on gun to give me a false sense of security.
 Smuggler1
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 194
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/26/2008 9:16:09 AM

but don't live my life in fear, nor am I depedent on gun to give me a false sense of security.


LOL.... I'll quote how I see fit.

As for your false sense of security. I dont understand how you would view it as a "false sense" in any way.

Peace through superior fire power...

Granted, that was the idea behind the armament of world superpowers and the cold war... but inherently, people who commit crimes, usually run when they realize there is an opportunity for their victim to fight back. I just saw a show last night about senior citizens who have armed themselves, due to the many different armed robberies.... Since they have obtained guns, and have no issue with showing their resolve to use them... their instances of crime have dropped dramatically.

You are one person, just like the rest of the "anti-gun" crowd. If you choose NOT to carry a weapon, own a gun, or what have you. Fine. that is your right...

Why is it so vital that you impose your views, be they political or social, about guns... on my life. Why should I give up my right to own and carry a gun, and in my view my security... to appease you???

According to you, those "thugs" that are running around, without regard to the law, who have guns, are not going to harm you anyway... Im not as sure about that as you may be...
 Scherri
Joined: 7/14/2008
Msg: 195
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/26/2008 9:34:35 AM

Why is it so vital that you impose your views, be they political or social, about guns... on my life. Why should I give up my right to own and carry a gun, and in my view my security... to appease you???

According to you, those "thugs" that are running around, without regard to the law, who have guns, are not going to harm you anyway... Im not as sure about that as you may be...


I am not asking or imposing my views on anyone's life nor have I asked anyone to give up their right to own a gun or want anyone to appease me. I also did not state the thugs as you call it are not going to harm me. I am for stricter gun control laws and don't see a reason fro carrying a concealed weapon.

I am more concerned with the "thugs" in the suits than the thugs on the streets.
 bear45408
Joined: 7/30/2007
Msg: 196
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/26/2008 9:50:10 AM

Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence) Doing the math, that's approximately 30,000 per year.

Great statistic...
But lets throw this into the mix....
Of those 80 Americans who die from "gun violence" every year... how many of them were the initiators of the violence?? Whats the break down of the number who were, say, robbing a bank? Holding up a liquor store? Gang violence between gang members??
I think these are the points that statistics overlook. Break down that number, to find out how many innocent people died vs the number that were in the process of commiting a crime or violent act. ...
Based on that stat, if a police officer, or a person carrying a CWP kills an individual who is commiting a violent act, they would then be added to the number. Under the Umbrella that, " XX number of americans were killed."
Its kind of misleading...
I realize that. In fact it's significantly misleading. Yet even using this statistic, the facts favor the other side. I tried to present their side as favorably as possible, since the argument might be made that without guns none of these deaths might have occured.

It ought to be noted that I have been surprised to find these sort of results. I have not previously been an advocate for carrying guns, except in the sense that I felt that the Second Amendment of the Constitution clearly states that this is a right. But I'd always previously viewed it as a rather theoretical right.

Like my old rifle in the back if the closet, bought in college when my roommate thought we ought to go hunting. Somewhere in the afternoon, he aimed at a woodchuck, and killed a beerbottle, dead. I thought to myself, that I really have no business hunting with a guy that can't tell the difference between a woodchuck and a beerbottle. So my rifle has stayed safely in my closet since.
 printer2
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 197
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/26/2008 9:52:01 AM


Cities, states, and countries that have disarmed their people have generally seen a rise in violent crime rates. Jamaica, Australia, Canada, and Britain disarmed their people, and all saw increases in violent crime;

Sorry you are mistaken. Canada has not disarmed people. Mainly what we have done different from before 1998 is to require rifles and shotguns to be registered and anyone not already possessing a short barreled handgun can only buy one with a barrel longer than 4”.

Not that I like quoting statistics but gun deaths have gone down steadily since before the gun registry was implemented. People in favour of gun registration point to it as proof that the laws are working. The handily ignore the fact society is getting older and we have less young ones running wild on the streets.

People against gun controls point towards the apparent increase in violent crimes and point at gun controls as the reason we have more violent crime. They also ignore the glorification of violence through video games, movies, and even the news. Do you want to be famous? Go shoot someplace up to show you are a bad MF.


The accidental shooting rate for private citizens is 1.2%, still too high. For law enforcement (previously referred to as peace officers), that figure is roughly 12%,

Could that be because copes look for trouble (after all it is their job)? Who is going to catch more fish, the person that occasionally puts his pole in the water or someone that makes a living fishing using a net.


You are one person, just like the rest of the "anti-gun" crowd. If you choose NOT to carry a weapon, own a gun, or what have you. Fine. that is your right...

Why is it so vital that you impose your views, be they political or social, about guns... on my life.

Because the gun culture in the US breeds violence. People think it is ok to use guns. Some people turn bad and can justify using a gun because it is what they are used to. Which causes more people to arm themselves. And the cycle continues and goes out of control.

Once you guys are finished in Iraq, maybe it will be time you have a troop surge in your own country to reduce the level of violence. After a while your society may find a way away from violence. What kind of future do you want?
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 198
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/26/2008 10:43:16 AM

What kind of future do you want?


Here's the thing. I don't think most Americans want a future. They want a continual extension of either the '70s or the '50s. The really old ones want to go back to the '40s, and the cowboys among us want to go back to the Wild West.

No one likes the visions of the future that are being handed to us. But rather than envisioning a sustainable future that we all might enjoy, we fantasize about killing rather than being killed. That's not my idea of the American Dream, but apparently I'm in the minority on this.
 Labdien!
Joined: 10/14/2007
Msg: 199
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/26/2008 10:58:57 AM

Cities, states, and countries that have disarmed their people have generally seen a rise in violent crime rates. Jamaica, Australia, Canada, and Britain disarmed their people, and all saw increases in violent crime


And if you want to continue believing figures put out by the NRA who are we to disagree?
 Smuggler1
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 200
Concealed Carry Laws in Cities / Suburbs = Terrible Idea
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:21:52 PM

Because the gun culture in the US breeds violence. People think it is ok to use guns. Some people turn bad and can justify using a gun because it is what they are used to. Which causes more people to arm themselves. And the cycle continues and goes out of control.

Once you guys are finished in Iraq, maybe it will be time you have a troop surge in your own country to reduce the level of violence. After a while your society may find a way away from violence. What kind of future do you want?


LOL... Gun "culture" does not breed violence. Ignorance, laziness and lack of respect, breeds violence. Only those individuals who have no respect for the rule of law, are utilizing the guns illegally... (I think its okay to use a gun. I do it all the time, Im hell on plastic jugs! )

As for the arguement that "people turn bad and can justify using a gun" please... goes back to the original part of my response... Ignorance, laziness and lack of respect is what causes people to "go bad"

To sit there and say that "guns" make people "go bad" is ludicrous...
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