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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/16/2008 5:11:52 PM | Wow, fantastic quote, and one I 100% agree with.
Its so hard to capture that feeling of, I will be a women in my own right, but lord how I want that male domination at certain times. | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 12:45:03 AM | The part about this I don't like is the passive/aggressive manipulation aspect of this.
Women who use sex to manipulate men into getting what they want.
Women who think they can get a man by adopting a passive role sexually and excusing themselves from any responsibility for sex and the results of sex later.
There are too many women who play this little game and it's a losing game as well.
This has always been a sticking point with men in regards to female equality.
You can't be submissive and equal at the same time.
Women want to play on the field with the big boys, but they don't want to play hard ball. They don't want to take equal responsibility for sex.
Women want to point their fingers at men and say, " You're the one who has to have it, I'm not the one who needs it like you do ".
Don't you see how this is a sexist and prejudiced attitude ?
I understand the whole lustful, passionate, " in the moment ", sex play.
But, this should not be a basic strategy for a relationship. | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 3:38:23 AM |
Irish, i do not think it is so much about being submissive...more about your man taking over and showing passion....I had a guy tell me once that he would carry me to bed urgently...carry me to bed hungrily.... carry me to bed where there was no bed....whisper sweet words into my ears to maintain the rage and passion between us...this was a huge turn on... he was taking control... and in no way was i being submissive... but i let him take the reins so to speak....
And I am not very comfortable with this, so I enjoy it only as an occasional change of pace. You're right that it isn't necessarily about being submissive, although a very submissive woman who always wants this is a poor match for me. I prefer a peer in the bedroom, and in particular, I like a woman who will treat me like this sometimes. | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 9:26:15 AM |
The part about this I don't like is the passive/aggressive manipulation aspect of this.
Women who use sex to manipulate men into getting what they want.
I agree with you Nipoleon that there are women that use their "femaleness" to strictly get what they want.... and no, it is not right. They are the ones that end up losing in the long run.... because I believe what goes around, comes around and if they are hurting others along the way, karma will turn around and bite them right in the arse.
You can't be submissive and equal at the same time.
Women want to play on the field with the big boys, but they don't want to play hard ball. They don't want to take equal responsibility for sex.
While some women are how you describe, there are many women like me that absolutely take equal responsibility for sex. I am always on equal ground with my man.... it's just at times we both like for him to be the dominant one... it's just our own personal preference. We also love those times when I take on the dominant role and for me it is so empowering for him to submit to my will.... my desires... my wants.... all the while both of us very aware that those wants and desires mirror his at that moment, therefore there is nothing selfish about it on either of our parts.
Women want to point their fingers at men and say, " You're the one who has to have it, I'm not the one who needs it like you do ".
Ummm.... personally, I disagree with you. Again, while there are women like this, there are many that are not. I don't know about anyone else, but I need sex. Even if it is only with a toy at times. The release of endorphins and tension is something I cannot live without.
Don't you see how this is a sexist and prejudiced attitude ?
No, I guess I don't.... because IMO, it is no different than a man stating he prefers a dominant woman sexually. This was simply a woman saying what is right for her and I happened to think that it mirrored a lot of my own desires.
But, this should not be a basic strategy for a relationship.
100% agreed with you on this. Like I mentioned previously in the thread, it is all about balance, IMO.
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 9:45:57 AM | I stumbled on this thread, although I hardly ever go and explore subjects of Sexuality on the forums, because I find many are attention seeking. However, laughinglibra I have read a number of your comments in the past and you always impressed me. Since I must step out now and take care of some business, I just wanted to mark this thread so I can come back to it. What you said about female sexuality, it is very true. Anais Nin.... it gave me nice warm shivers, when I read the paragraph from her book. Yes, I want him over me, and always over me and me always under him..oh, god yes.
This what I always try to point out on forums, when people discuss equality issues, but are so fukced up when they try to understand the dynamics between female and male in a romantic relationship. In a bedroom I am a woman and he is a man. and we are not equal, meaning not the same.
Thank you, La Jaconde | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 2:29:13 PM | "You can't be submissive and equal at the same time."
There is a grain of truth to this. The dominant male I was with had major control issues outside of the bedroom, which he needed to work on and I would not tolerate. The submissive man was in the same boat, but on the other side of the spectrum. The bedroom is a microcosm of a relationship and if there is inequality there, it spreads throughout. | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 3:49:44 PM |
The bedroom is a microcosm of a relationship and if there is inequality there, it spreads throughout.
hardly...
inequality in bedrooms, isn't actually about "Inequality per se", it is just a word we are using 'inequality' but the word has different meaning when you apply it to bedroom and versus real life.
Him over me, me under him... it has got nothing to do with 'inequality per se' | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 4:03:45 PM | "inequality in bedrooms, isn't actually about 'Inequality per se', it is just a word we are using 'inequality' but the word has different meaning when you apply it to bedroom and versus real life."
Your experiences have been much different than mine. | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 4:16:33 PM | It's very possible toomuch13, I don't dispute it. Basically my point was that this kind of inequality that Anais Nin is describing in her book (I will read her more thouroughly), is actually healthy.
Being submissive in life in general, and having to deal with dominant male, that is supressing the feminine, controlling freak.... my experiences with those types were less than positive in bedroom dept, in fact I would say opposite took place in the bedroom. When there is control there is no intimacy and certainly no intimacy in the bedroom either. It is acutally about more control, which kills the intimacy. I go simply numb with those types. Luckily there was only one controlling freak in my life, and nor more, thanks. La Jaconde 2 cents | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 5:12:14 PM | Whaaattt? All I can think of, I don't remember where it is, there's an account Henry Miller wrote somewhere about f##king Anais and she was in this "totally passive," "feminine" trip which meant laying there like a sack of cold mashed potatoes and "letting" him do her with a c##rot. Yuck.
She couldn't write a plot to save her soul, either. | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 5:28:24 PM | | Worldchild I was just going to post about Henry Miller! Henry Miller has a very different account of Anais Nin and felt she left much to be desired in the bedroom. Anais Nin did not have a pleasant life and I agree with you about her inability to write a plot. | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 5:54:02 PM | OP I have read your posts here there and everywhere on POF and very much appreciate your humour and honesty...... really....
If you havent already come across him.... you should read blogs (for want of a better word) by Easily Aroused..... think you would like for sure..... | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 6:20:57 PM | Thank you....I loved this superlative Woman in life and revere her now in spirit. This from her diary:
"The personal life deeply lived always expands into truths beyond itself".....As one who has died in the flesh, came back, and is now still living, day to day, I now really know this.
I believe in the passage that you quote, she was expressing that to be fully a woman she wished always to be completely part of the ying-yang of male-female. To be the receiver, acceptor, and then to give back. To be always chased round the circle of life...to be consumed in passion when caught, so that her spirit then flies free with her man. A very Jungian description of Woman as the Godess? It is certain that she was a deep believer in Jung - she recommended him to me as a young man searching....
Again, thank you for pointing others in her direction. Her writings are a deep well to drink from.. | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 6:29:24 PM | Thanks Taralaraa.... I've only just begun to investigate this man's writings.... thank you so much for sharing! Even just the title of the blog.... "Indecent reflections of an oversexed Englishman".... that alone is intriguing.
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/17/2008 9:37:09 PM | I have enjoyed reading Anais Nin for years now. She is one of my favorite authors, although her diaries were controversial for not being true to facts. I don't agree with everything she stands for morally (apparently she slept with her cousin? EWW), but I do see my own modus operandi in the quote you posted, OP. All in all she is an excellent writer and there are many wonderful quotes of hers.
One of mine is a poem she wrote called Risk.
"And then the day came,
when the risk
to remain tight
in a bud
was more painful
than the risk
it took
to Blossom"
I also really love Rainer Maria Rilke, those who like Nin might find his writing enjoyable as well. They are similar in some ways.
Oh, and by the way, I've noticed a few of the posts on this page, and I just want to say that taking on a role (such as being the gentle partner as opposed to the strong one) does not mean that there is inequality in the relationship. In fact often within my experiences, it was opposite outside the bedroom, and the gentle one (okay, fine, it was me) was the one who was more decisive and got things done, while my boyfriends were more passive and quite happy to let me take care of things outside the bedroom. There were no 'power struggles' or anything like that, we were a team, but each had a different role tailored to what suited our drives, abilities, and interests best, and both contributed to the relationship. Yin yang thing.
Most people don't have personality issues, although I can understand that there are people in the world who might be control freaks, or passive to the point of being ineffective, but that's never been the case that I've experienced, not in recent years.
I also agree with 'balance' and find it funny LaughingLibra, because I am a libra too. We are all about balance in all things, aren't we? The thing with balance is that it doesn't necessarily mean absolute equity in all areas, often it can work it's way out by one filling a void that another has, and vice versa. Let's have an example in practical, simplistic, and traditional terms. Picture a man who takes care of the cars, the lawn, the maintenance of the house. Then picture his partner, a woman who is highly organized and takes care of the shopping and supplies, housecleaning, things like that. Both make contributions to the relationship in line with the things they like better to do, and are handily capable of doing. Or you can even switch and the guy takes care of the household, and the woman is the gearhead who keeps the cars running. I've seen both types of relationships.
Equal does not mean exactly the same, although it sometimes can. Equal is equal contributions, equal emotional investment, equal goals, equal responsibilities-in different ways.
This was written very quickly so it isn't up to the usual standard of clarity of my posts, but that's the gist of my opinion anyway. | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/18/2008 11:06:59 AM |
She was lucky to live in an era where men were allowed to be men, and not live in fear of sexual harassment lawsuits
I think many women still enjoy being "taken" or "ravaged" they just want to decide when and by whom.  | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/18/2008 7:10:59 PM | 'L~L'....
Eloquent as ever..!!
A relationship shouldn't be based on 'Tactics'...!!
It should be Open and Honest .. expressing all the Feelings and Passion that makes a
Good relationship work..!!
~ You know this to be True! ~..
As I sip on my Molsons . . I am there with you...
Watching the Aurora and the Perseid meteor shower...
[It's _Spectacular_ in Mo., tonight..!!]
~ Love and BE Loved ~ | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/18/2008 8:13:50 PM | Anais Nin was married to a man who was caring but didn't have the gusto, manliness, whatever you want to call it, that she needed. She had a much stronger sex drive than her nice, yet predictable husband. She was lonely, very lonely in her marriage to him because they were so unevenly matched, even intellectually she was beyond him. Anais was trully in love with Arthur Miller and Arthur Miller's wife. She had an affair with both of them. She pitied his pretty waif of a wife but loved her at the same time. Arthur Miller was an irreverent, exciting, intoxicating lover for Anais. She wrote volumes (Diaries) about her life and everything that was associated with Arthur Miller, the society parties, his wife and her clueless husband.
In her quote she was lamenting about the sexually unresponsive leadership of her husband who remained totally devoted to her. She just couldn't believe he could be so into his studies while she was wasting away on the bed. Arthur came to her rescue in the way of a powerful, totally engulfing lover that she so desperately needed. He experimented with her in ways her husband never could.
Women are all different. Not all women need what Anais needed and to the degree that she demanded. I want to be on the top sometimes.  | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 8/18/2008 8:49:37 PM | | LaughingLibra, i so agree with you in that this describes me to a "t" at times as well!! Yes, she was an amazing woman that had the balls to write from her heart and damn what anyone thought. Thanks for sharing this quote with us! | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/23/2008 5:24:04 PM | Its not about equality, its about surrender.
"Love is giving someone the power to destroy you, but trusting them not to." | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/23/2008 6:02:25 PM | Hey ideoform, that's a great quote...I've heard it before, but have no clue who is assumed to have first said it... Any idea?
Kaylie | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/23/2008 6:14:05 PM | I'm sorry, kayliecat, its from someone's profile.
I always try to give credit to the author when I have one.
This one said "anonymous" where I found it.
I choose to leave that off because this isn't a quotes thread...I suppose you can Google it.
Maybe I should have done that first. | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/23/2008 7:36:51 PM | I've read Anais Nin and about her life. I enjoyed the reading, but must say that I probably disagree with her on many of her views, this being one. She can also be rather fatalistic. I understand the sentiment behind this quote. And I understand many women's desire for this type of behavior from the man in their life. (Certainly has sold many a book) On the other hand, I believe more along the same lines as some previous posters, that it almost comes across as "having your cake and eating it, too".
Since what she is talking about is a "behavior"...or even more correctly, it's a "personality trait", why would a woman think that this trait would stop just when she needs it to (i.e. outside the bedroom)? Additionally, and this is the thing I find most difficult to understand, why would a woman try to condition herself to be more than one person? I don't necessarily believe that she had the same views on relationships as women of today, but I think many people are reading the quote in today's context and this is what's coming across... "I am Woman. Hear me roar!"...oh, except when I'm submitting to and following him...especially in the bedroom.
I honestly don't think that can be done. I think you are who you are. You can be difficult to decipher if you start wanting different things based on different situations. Strikes me as not being true to yourself at all times, too. This doesn't mean that you can't want different things at different times. It means that I don't think your basic behavior or personality can really change. And if it does or if you try to live that way, well, where do you think so much of male confusion over females comes from!!! 
And lastly, doesn't the whole thing come down to a want/need to be desired? You can say you're "guiding" him if you want you. You can say it's "passive-aggressive". You can place whatever term on it you want. But, even though she states in the quote that she doesn't want to lose herself...who she is...who she can be... Isn't the basic statement that she wants to be desired by her man? I think this might be where people who disagree with the idea of the quote would say that there is an inequality in her thinking. That you can't have it both ways. You have to be who you are at all times. Work...play...bedroom... I understand the statement. But, in the times we live in, I think it may get a lot of resistance from men. Too much confusion.
(And just so you know, for this reply, I tried to look at the quote in a non-sexual context. I think if it's applied strictly to the bedroom, it only increases the conflict. Here's another of her quotes that speaks to similar thoughts as the OP -
"How wrong is it for women to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than set out to create it herself." )
Does she want to be an independent thinker or does she want to be a follower? Certainly an interesting life. Good stuff to talk about! | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/24/2008 6:27:35 AM |
"Does she want to be an independent thinker or does she want to be a follower? "
I am a prodigious thinker.
I have discovered that beyond learning about sex (from the Kinsey Reports, and reading the Karma Sutra,) sex is not at all about thinking. Just the opposite.
""I am Woman. Hear me roar!"...oh, except when I'm submitting to and following him...especially in the bedroom."
This isn't limited to women. I have read that some type A men who are lions in the boardroom want to surrender in the bedroom and will pay a lot to a dominatrix to do so.
The mind is the largest sex organ. But the mind needs both control and release, also.
In the end, nobody really can predict what and where their "buttons" are, and so many quiet, demure women find a powerful man scary in a parking lot, but very relaxing in the bedroom--power can both hurt and protect. It is the opportunity to show vulnerability that is lacking in a seemingly cold world. | |
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| A quote from Anais Nin....
Posted: 9/24/2008 6:37:14 AM | Libra...me thinks like she thinks all the time about a woman. And, being a writer, I also stream my thoughts along her path. It's warmest where love joins man and woman. Their hearts.
If you've ever read the threads I post in "poetry and quotes"...you'd see I'm in total agreement. | |
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