| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/18/2008 6:00:41 PM | Let me tell you a story.
For 4 years, I travelled in a social circle primarily due to one friend I had. She'd bring me along to social events with her. I had a good time, and developed a few new friends, but was basically a quiet, shy, withdrawn person. While this was going on, I was in a very unhappy marriage.
Then the X left me for another woman. I was devastated. Deciding he wasn't going to bring me this far down, I went into therapy. Lots of therapy. Had a few major break-throughs. I found my self-esteem. I got happy. For the first time in my life, I was satisfied with myself.
Now, I have long held the belief that looks are subjective. I think some men are attractive, and my friends can have the complete opposite reaction. Some people think I’m attractive, some don’t. I can’t change those perceptions. Oh well. But then again, what the scientists label as “attractive,” I don’t buy. The even-balanced face, the wide-set eyes, all that, I find kind of vanilla-plain. It’s kind of weird, but I don’t find “attractive” all that attractive.
But I digress; back to the story.
So anyway, after 4+ years of hanging out with the same folks, one night, a man that I had found VERY attractive from the moment I had first laid eyes on him approached me and asked me for my number. WHAT?!?! What could I have possibly done to finally garner his attention? My hair was the same. I hadn’t changed my makeup scheme. Yes, I had lost some weight, but I was never over 140 lbs. Couldn’t be that he had considered me fat. I had no money for a new wardrobe. Had he been in a relationship before? Consulting with the friend that had brought me into this circle, she told me that he was not nor had been attached for a number of years. Had he noticed that I no longer wore my ring? When I asked him about it later, he told me that he thought he had just met me. For 4 years, I had been INVISIBLE to him.
Wow. What a mind-blowing experience. The ONLY thing of significance that had changed was on the inside. I laughed. I smiled. I was no longer afraid to talk to people. I was finally happy and it showed. It was such a change from being so unhappy for so long that I was really happy for a while there. And I had lots of dates and requests for digits. Man, that was a fun phase of my life.
So if you don’t think that what’s on the inside doesn’t show on the outside, you’re dead wrong. It makes all the difference in the world. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/18/2008 6:36:16 PM |
So my question is, does anyone else feel like I do or are my friends right? I
would appreciate your opinions. Thanks.
Personally, I was just trying to be honest about the role which physical attraction plays in how we determine what people we **** and what people we don't.
so you already had your own answer before you even asked the question. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/18/2008 6:40:20 PM |
but honestly I have only heard women express such a sentiment about not wanting to be with someone who does not find them physically attractive.
well nobody wants to date quasimoto.
at the other extreme, most people don't want to make looks the overwhelming #1 priority. there's always somebody prettier/better looking. so what. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/18/2008 7:10:19 PM | *Stan*
Send me a picture of you posing on a horse (sorry MHP) and I will give you an honest opinion as to whether or not you are as physically attractive as you believe yourself to be.   | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/18/2008 7:18:24 PM | You've got massive insecurity problems, bud. I promise you, most women will not date guys out of pity. And if they do, it's usually fairly short lived. Besides, you should really be able to tell the difference between when someone is interested in you and when they are taking pity on you. The two are very, very different.
I'm actually the opposite. I prefer to date girls that are considerably more attractive than me. I love walking through a public place and getting that, "Why is she with him?" look. Makes me laugh. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/18/2008 7:28:32 PM | "At the end of the day, you don't have sex with someone's personality or brain. Just the way I look at things."
No, at the end of the day you don't have sex with someone's personality. However, that's only because you have spent the day with her. Having sex is different than love.
Now, if by "end of the day" you mean after falling in love with a girl, then I'm sorry, you ARE "having sex" with their brain, their soul and their personality. In true love, you get to a point where you don't care if that person got severly burned or had to have both arms amputated...you are attracted to their being and you will not care about what they look like on the outside.
If you can't get past the fact that your woman is attracted more to your brain than your body then you will just have to wait for a really hot woman to think your hot based on your looks. Ask yourself if that is realistic. If you can't become less shallow... then I guess you should consider having plastic surgery. Crack a few bones here and there, start going to the gym, get rogaine, clean your teeth etc. (essentially just ijmprove what ever physical characteristics you're presently unhappy with) and give yourself that look that you think you need to attract girls based on physical attraction alone.
"Well, we usually **** one and not the other. Why is that? Because we are physically attracted to some folks, while we are not attracted to others (despite their personalities, etc.)"
Yes maybe in the beginning, but over time ....(I know this may come as a shock to you)...you may actually become attracted to someone despite their looks. Just like the opposite where you have a lustful beginning based on looks but then you realize the person is ugly on the inside. But then youcould be the type of person who even though you had become attracted to them on the inside, your "pride" as you put it, would never allow you to be seen in public with them....And that's fine, to each their own you know. :) refer back to my plastic surgery suggestion.
My two cents. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/18/2008 9:53:27 PM | I don't think that the OP sounds like a fool, nor do I think he will never find love as someone guessed. Actually I think that the OP has a valid point that is probably true or many more people than are willing to admit (and that includes some of the participants in this thread): While we all want to be liked, loved, respected or desired for our mind and/or personality most of us will probably want to be liked, loved, respected or desired for the complete package that we bring to the table including our appearance.
Especially when it comes to the physical side of a relationship appearance does play a role for most people. Hardly anybody will be able to deny that it is important (and usually a turn-on) to be desired physically, and it is usually the physical attractiveness to our partner that triggers that desire. I know that I yet have to hear my partner say "Your article on that basketball team was so sexy, it totally turned me on". :-)
I certainly can't find anything wrong with the wish to be physically attractive to the person we find attractive ourselves.
That said: Physical attraction is a very individual thing, and maybe that woman that is into that severely overweight man as well as into that skinny man is attracted to a certain smile or to the similar twinkle in their eye or by their sexy voice. But no matter what it is: It shouldn't matter who somebody has dated before, IMO. While our past builds our present there is no need and no sense in comparing ourselves with the exes.
Besides, Stan, obviously the former relationships haven't worked out. So obviously you are a "better" fit than those previous boyfriends have been. So why worry? Nothing is as old as yesterday's newspaper. Grab today's edition and set your headlights for tomorrow. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 12:47:23 AM | I'll wave my own shallow flag - with one ex-boyfriend, he sent me a picture from his wedding ceremony and I felt vainly proud that I was prettier than his wife. *shrug* Not my proudest, least vain moment, but I guess I had the exactly opposite reaction as you. I felt better because I looked better, perhaps I was subconsciously thinking that "he would never get over me and he had to settle for someone less attractive" ... and isn't that a horrible thought? Shoot, especially for him because I'm no femme fatale, lol. His wife is very nice and those feelings lived and died in the time it took me to look at the pictures and chitchat with her. Brief is the keyword. It also doesn't define my dating outlook.
I can absolutely understand not wanting to be a pity date, but you're projecting your own shallow values onto the women in your life and that is not doing anyone any good. And if you want to continue to think this way: have you seen an entire representative sample of her dating history? Because i have to tell you, I've dated guys who are all over the place from just plain to hot, so I wonder how that would make you feel if it were my history you were viewing? (or something similar).
If she has a variety of men in the attractiveness scale is that then an acceptable reason for her to be more interested in personality than looks ... or would you still write her off because she obviously has to have low standard looks wise to date you? (I have no idea if this is true, but if you really feel you're that unattractive, then is this another take on Groucho Marx?) I don't think it has to do with her, just you and your self-esteem and shallowness factors.
By the way ... I'm confused why someone who has confessed in another thread that they've given up on dating "regular" women and dedicated himself to the punting lifestyle would even post this. It implies caring about why a woman would really date you, not be paid to date you - and I think you've said you don't do that anymore. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 7:27:30 AM | "I don't think that the OP sounds like a fool, nor do I think he will never find love as someone guessed. Actually I think that the OP has a valid point that is probably true or many more people than are willing to admit (and that includes some of the participants in this thread): While we all want to be liked, loved, respected or desired for our mind and/or personality most of us will probably want to be liked, loved, respected or desired for the complete package that we bring to the table including our appearance"
Definitely , I mostly agree, this forum is also interesting definietly, a good topic. I'm just saying that if the guy STAN, doesn't get plastic surgery then he wioll be forever in this mental rut. UNless he can start to accept his alleged ugliness and understand that the women like him for otherattributes he will be single forever. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 7:42:45 AM | | I agree with another poster that ask how you know that she was not physically attracted to a larger heavyset man that she had dated in the past. My first husband was a heavyset man and he had a lot of qualities that made him very attractive to me. Just the fact that you are so self centered and prideful makes you loose a lot of appeal to a lot of women. JMO | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 7:48:40 AM | OP: Now this is the flip side of the spectrum. lol Usually, we have threads on why people put so much emphasis on looks. You on the other hand, find it odd that a woman would date a man if she did not put so much emphasis on looks, and therefore you would not date her.
Could it be that she sees beyond looks and actually likes him as a person? It does exist. 
Snap out of it, Stan! | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 7:50:26 AM | | And I would also like to point out that in no relationship are both partners EQUALLY attracted or in love the exact same amount as the other. One will love a little more than the other, and one is a bit more attracted than the other. What is hard to deal with is if you are the one that is loved less. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 7:52:54 AM | Women aren’t hard wired the same as men as far as determining what is physically attractive. So I would recommend you stop going there. Evolution has determined that for both sexes. I personally lose 10 IQ points for every inch over 6’2” the guy is and a lot of things that normally are a deal breaker go right out the window! By 6’8” I am a drooling mess. Have no idea why that is. Don't want to know.
So yeah, I would suggest either do your best to get over that, or do some investigation as to why you really feel that way. I know you explained it, but that seems more like your worried you can’t spot a desperate woman. What woman in her right mind would go out with someone for pity? | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 9:45:49 AM | since you are young, you have future years to discover -and understand- that many people can get to a point where they can see a person as a "whole", and the whole person determines if they are "ugly", "unattractive", "average", or "beautiful". It is not all about what the eye sees at first glance.
Opposite to you, my insecurities make me leary of men who have been dating "beauty queens". My insecurities tell me that I cannot compare based on looks alone... and therefore he would never fully appreciate me. Whereas if I know a guy has dated girls similar to me, I am far more comfortable. Further, I avoid guys who are physically gorgeous .. or that are percieved as gorgeous by all the other women. Older ladies have always told me that having a very handsome husband can be one of the hardest things in life...
Funny how our little minds work, huh? | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 2:56:15 PM | pnayplayr you beat me to it, i was just going to say OP your friends are right!
You might also want to bear in mind that looks fade as you get older and if there is no substance or character underneath then your pretty much screwed.
I have been out with a number of men that could be considered unnattractive by others but they had a personality that clicked with me.
If you can't stimulate my mind then it doesn't matter how good looking you are, you won't get beyond a friendly chat with me. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 3:23:41 PM | ha, it's Seinfeld all over again - no dating the chickie who went out with Newman! hellllllllo newman!!!
oh dear...what if some guy in her future won't date her because she lowered her standards to date YOU :) heheheheh
attraction/beauty is in the eye of the beholder ~ just cuz you don't find them attractive (and that's weird in and of itself, a dude commenting on another dude's hotness LOL how do you even know who they are btw?) doesn't mean there wasn't a spark there for her. Girls rarely date a guy JUST for personality, there has to be some giggity-giggity going on. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 3:46:05 PM | WOW OP!* shakes head*
Are you for real? Who are you to judge what any woman finds "physically attractive"
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder remember, and what you deem to be attractive is not necessarily another's taste! It is all completely subjective!
Looks fade but the person who they are on the inside does not, its too bad that you are all caught up with outward appearances as you may be shortchanging yourself!
I have dated guys that were overweight and what not, it was there personality and their heart that made them more attractive to me, and yes in a physical sense.
I wish you luck getting over your hang ups, especially that you go as far as to not date someone that has dated someone not up to your Snooty standards previously!
Seriously, get a grip! | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 4:24:21 PM | Thats a very sweeping assumption on your part that the reason people have requested a photo is solely to check out someones looks?
When i see someones picture and read thier words it helps me to get a picture in my head of thier personality, something that in initial contact is difficult for anyone to put across.
Although i will admit that someone who refuses to add a photo to thier profile does make me think what are they trying to hide. Will thier photo show them to be closer to 60 than the 40 they claim on thier profile? That's just my own take on it though i wouldn't dare to presume that's what everyone thinks. Have you checked the profile of every person who has posted on all four pages of this thread?
I'm lucky in that i have found someone who i am happy with and have changed my profile accordingly, but when i was looking i did allow messages without pictures-so i think i prove your generalisation wrong mate. | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 5:15:52 PM | Stan,
First of all, I think it's great that you can be so honest, so I'm not trying to slam you here, because if it weren't for people who really admitted the odd things that go through their minds, these forums would be totally boring.
Two things that I didn't quite understand.:
1. that if your girl really liked you for your personality, but had dated an unattractive guy before you, but never came out and said she thought you were not attractive, (like G. Costanza's girlfriends who casually said, "oh, I don't care about looks")you would automatically assume that she didn't find YOU physically attractive?
2. You said you don't have a pic on your profile because you don't think that you're physically attractive. So why do you only want someone to like you for your looks?
I'm going to suggest, also, that maybe you are too hung up with making "good looking" out to be a standard, objective thing. If you would let your girlfriend decide for herself what she thought was good-looking, and didn't need for it to be a standard norm, you might move past this problem a little. Haven't you ever heard of "sexy-ugly"? | |
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| Is this weird-Am I too caught up in looks?
Posted: 8/19/2008 5:22:50 PM |
And to the posters who stated that I am insecure, I don't dispute that either. Although, that begs an obvious question. If you are indeed fat, or ugly, does simply admitting/acknowledging this fact make you insecure? Take a 600 lb guy...to avoid being labeled as "insecure" is he supposed to delude himself into believing that he is not obese? Is he supposed to ignore two indisputable facts- 1) that he is indeed obese and 2) this fact alone will act as a turn off to a vast multitude of women? Does the simiple fact that someone is honest enough to acknowledge their shortcomings and the impact which those shortcomings have on their life, make them insecure?
Acknowledging your shortcomings does not make you insecure. Reveling in your shortcomings makes you insecure.
As everyone knows, acknowledging what's wrong is actually good because it gives you the power to change those things. But you sound like so many others who admit to all the things wrong with them but have no interest in changing any of them. You'd rather just sit there and say, "Well, I suck. That's too bad. Guess I'll never get any better."
You only suck because you choose to suck. Just as easily, you can choose not to suck. Don't believe me? What kind of serious efforts have you made to try to fix any of your shortcomings? Serious efforts, not half-assed efforts. You don't have to answer me. Just answer yourself that.
I don't think any woman (or man) has ever said to themselves, "well he is obese, and pretty ugly...but he is soooo confident! And confidence is so sexy...I want him so bad!" Just food for thought.
You'd be amazed at what confidence can do. Some of the guys I know that are the most successful with the most beautiful women are some of the ugliest trolls I've met. But they've got confidence out the ass. | |
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