| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/27/2009 7:21:04 PM | Ahhh ...I see the hairsplitters art work.... oh joy and running off tangent 
Surely a sign of of defensiveness, lack of or slowed ability of learning, reasoning beyond what is contained within ones own skin = less tolerant
I asked if 'ms fartsalot’s' statement “ true ignorance...fear of change.” was a bit of a generalization. The question was posed with respect to the topic of” tolerant and the less-tolerant”.
Ignorance may or may not be a matter of tolerating something. The two are not necessarily related.
So you would have to tolerate that a very educated person may willfully act in ways that may be construed by others as ignorant, which in itself may be an act of acting without knowledge of the particular reasons.
Hence I stated that “ some people may chose between what others may consider important and what they consider important for themselves.
I trust Yabadabadoo it would be an act of tolerance to accept another person’s choice as their right.
ms fartsalot seems today isn’t a good day..lol 
Not adverse to looking things up in the dictionary, are you? Or do you prefer to generalize when you don’t know the meaning of words and call people ignorant because they don't agree with your home made definitions?
allow me to refresh, I wrote:
One that could also be interpreted as ignorant
The statement merely points at the possibility; it may be suggestive if anything. There is no calling any particular person ignorant. If however you are insisting on wearing that shoe, then that is your choice. I shall remain tolerant and not object.
If people feel that they have seen too much BS, they should try and change their perspective. Look at things from different angles.
I ask of you who the hell has the right to impose upon another what they have to do, think or believe?
That is one of the most intolerant statements I have come across in a long time. Considering the source I am inclined to suggest you should take your own words to heart and live up to them before making such suggestions.
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/27/2009 8:14:23 PM | I trust Yabadabadoo it would be an act of tolerance to accept another person’s choice as their right. I would have to say yes for the most part... so long as those choices do not cause harm to others, or infringe on another's basic human rights.
In your last post I thought you were implying that ms farstalots definition of ignorance was a generalization, I did not see it as so. Your second line to me seemed to be more of a defensive statement... possibly in reaction to the elder comment (I could be very wrong on that)
I secretly hope that being so set in my ways that I can not change... is not a requirement of being an elder. I personally know some really cool (tolerant) elders that are still very open to learning and changing with the times.  | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/27/2009 8:41:34 PM | ***Quietly munches on her white cheddar popcorn and watches the less tolerant people sit there and snipe at each other***
Back to the OP's TOPIC...
So I ask...
Do you agree that it is the intolerant that are largely responsible for much of the conflict and misery in our world?
No I don't agree. It is the heads of government throughout the word that are causing the conflict and misery, each with their own mandate on how to become the superpower. I do not think that tolerance has anything to do with it.
Are you a tolerant or intolerant person?
A person can be very tolerant or liberal on one issue, but totally intolerant and inflexible or conservative on another issue. To paint a person as either "black or white" as far as their tolerance is concerned, to me is asinine.
Do you have difficulty seeing both sides of an issue?
Depends on the issue. Usually I don't, and respect a person for their particular view. But that being said, I do have a problem with someone who constantly thinks they can shove their agenda and views down my throat with little or no respect as to how I feel or think.
Can you sometimes see yet another route or option other than clearly defined "white" or "black"? Will you accept the "gray" route or option?
Ask the people that know me. One person will have thought out ONE WAY of doing something. I usually will have thought out at least another 2 or 3 ways of handling the problem, then you can take your pick as to how you want to solve it.....
If you are generally intolerant, but have at times accepted other opinions or beliefs, what did it take for that to happen?
I don't know if I have"accepted" someone else's beliefs, BUT I have respected them for what they believe and the passion that they show.
Do you have any advice for our less-tolerant forum brethren, advice they might consider before making a post in the forums?
Wow, what a patronizing statement. Who are we to give advice to others how to post in these forum threads. I say what I think and feel and I am NOT going to tell anyone here how they should express their opinions... | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/28/2009 12:13:02 AM | Do you agree that it is the intolerant that are largely responsible for much of the conflict and misery in our world? one word answer...greed
Are you a tolerant or intolerant person? well I keep coming back here don't I ? So obviously I'm extremely Tolerant.
Do you have difficulty seeing both sides of an issue? Only when I'm being particularly Pig Headed
Can you sometimes see yet another route or option other than clearly defined "white" or "black"? Will you accept the "gray" route or option? Grey is the colour of my World ?
If you are generally intolerant, but have at times accepted other opinions or beliefs, what did it take for that to happen? Umm, they presented a clear and well thought out case
for their point of view. 
Do you have any advice for our less-tolerant forum brethren, advice they might consider before making a post in the forums? nope I only give advice when I'm asked for it...
And well I'm Taller than most of you and thats all that really matters to me anyways....lol  | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/28/2009 12:25:20 AM |
And well I'm Taller than most of you and thats all that really matters to me anyways....lol
That is the funniest thing I have read on these threads in a long time!
Tolerance, really does have a floating scale doesn't it?
I seem to tolerate a 12 year old acting like a 12 year old far more readily than I do when an adult is demonstrating same behaviour. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/28/2009 11:29:59 AM | The thread is about tolerance and it seems like everyone is pissed off at each other. Seems ironic.
I love hearing about other beliefs and ideas. I like to try to understand where other people are coming from and I think much of the strife in this world could be alleviated if we all just made an honest attempt to put ourselves in the shoes of those who believe differently than ourselves. A person may seem quite different at first, but once you get to know them you'll likely find that deeper down they are much the same.
On a deeper level, I am strengthened when exposed to different beliefs. I may not adopt every belief I hear, but I accept them and this acceptance enhances my own spirituality. Conversely, those who refuse to consider other beliefs or ideas are spiritually weak, intolerant, lost and possessed of a weak belief system. If you allow your spirituality to change - then it grows stronger; if you preach exclusivity of truth - then it remains weak. /my opinion. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/28/2009 2:52:36 PM |
The thread is about tolerance and it seems like everyone is pissed off at each other.
right it is about tolerance
wrong, mustn't generalize. Not everyone, some perhaps, but more likely no one ( I assume my fellow posters are in agreement) is pissed off
people are clearing misunderstandings, discussing different points of view, include a bit of banter in the spirit of 'good sport' and may agree to disagree....
you are right people are very much the same deeper inside in the physical sense, but in their mental and behavioral ways that would be an exception. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/30/2009 11:54:27 AM |
Has discussing your beliefs and feelings in the above discussions in the POF forums and others like it made you reconsider how you feel, or perhaps be more flexible in your approval or acceptance of people? ….I try to think back and compare how I felt about things a few years ago and how I feel now and believe there has been change, more flexibility. Some standards are less important to me now
Isn’t it funny that in the court of law, a judge would take into account impact statements of family members before he makes his final sentencing. This procedure is to show respect and dignity for the victim while at the same time honouring the family and process of the courts and what it stands for.
Your asking us to disclose some very personal views of our interactions and learning’s and again….you don’t initiate as to what motivated you. You talk of 3 separate forum threads that impacted you as voicing “strong opinions” and you now require an update – maybe we could hear one from you? What standards are less important to you now with reference to your new found revelations? Would be interesting to read here – or should we wait till your book is in print. Surely its can’t just be about flexibility….Lol What caused you to think a person is thinking in the “grey” ? Grey means what? Lets make sure we are all approaching with the same meaning. The flexibility you suggest people might have learned as a result of expressed thoughts in forums – would suggest you may have experienced them – what specifically changed for you?
Have you found that over time your level of tolerance might change? perhaps you are truly getting wiser as you get older?
Has discussing your beliefs and feelings in the above discussions in the POF forums and others like it made you reconsider how you feel, or perhaps be more flexible in your approval or acceptance of people?
With respect to threads that I might have been involved in - to tolerate would mean accepting wilful choices of arrogance to that of ignorance. I would rather assert that my personal views of a position has not changed as a result of discussions …but more an understanding with the limits of the net that I was heard even if my intentions were not received…lol
With respect to fellow posters I accept that their strands of thought is based on their experiences and definitions – it is with humility that I at times stand down.
With reference to becoming wise as a result of my involvement in threads: I now acknowledge that my approach has been to question the issues as to how certain beliefs form and that can be very personal and negative for some. Sometimes the degree of the issue is presented while the person is highly emotional and seems appropriate to match with the same intensity – that may not be a good approach…and I am making a conscious choice as to how I approach the discussion.
About becoming wiser, No. Disenchantment – yes. I would suggest that I have more faith in the human condition and I have not found it here. I find the ridged stance that is being taken by many here difficult to comprehend. For the very few I read amazing thoughts but don’t post often to have any real impact. So sorry…lol
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/30/2009 12:10:10 PM |
With respect to fellow posters I accept that their strands of thought is based on their experiences and definitions
about becoming wiser, No. Disenchantment – yes. I would suggest that I have more faith in the human condition and I have not found it here. I find the ridged stance that is being taken by many here difficult to comprehend.
 I'm a bit puzzled here
you say you accept someones thoughts yet you find it difficult to comprehend.
Isn't acceptance an acknowledgment of the things the way they are?
Comprehension of that condition is not a necessity. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/30/2009 12:26:36 PM |
I'm a bit puzzled here
you say you accept someone’s thoughts yet you find it difficult to comprehend.
Isn't acceptance an acknowledgment of the things the way they are?
Comprehension of that condition is not a necessity
Hairsplitter!
Acceptance is acknowledging – true - and it is not saying I agree with the strand of thoughts but acknowledging.
My words: I find the rigid stance taken by many here difficult to comprehend.
Regardless of how many responses an author might receive, he or she will adhere to original position rather than explore what is expressed.
Some forum posters outright playing “recess games” disregarding how their behaviour in words impact others….that is difficult to comprehend for me.
I did not use the two: acceptance and comprehension in the same breath.
Edit :
I acknowledge by participating
I comprehend the written word by expressing thoughts
I don’t know how to comprehend some of the behaviours
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/30/2009 8:40:24 PM |
Hairsplitter! an odd response ..lol
There was a concise question posed seeking clarification, a normal act in an ongoing discussion.
The question did not include an allegation of wrong on your part. It was clearly stated that I was looking for clarification of your previous statement.
Name calling is a defensive response and uncalled for in this instance and pretty intolerant.
Questioning someone’s statement does not imply the authors integrity is in question unless the words used clearly indicate that.
You were saying:
Some forum posters outright playing “recess games” disregarding how their behaviour in words impact others….that is difficult to comprehend for me.
Have you not done the same here?
Not that I mind, I am not offended, but I wonder, you are usually more tolerant.
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/30/2009 10:01:34 PM | Msg 78 : Hair splitter use to make ref. to breaking down words . Your suggesting its’ odd? Borrowed it from your post – with no reference to the contents of that post except its’ meaning.
I clarified. At no time did I see your questioning as an infringement.
Now I question your projected ‘tolerance’. Why is that that others in this forum can call a spade a spade in ‘jest’ and suddenly I am to have and must have decorum. I don’t see you calling others on their shyte.
Name calling is a defensive response and uncalled for in this instance and pretty intolerant.
Questioning others on a projected meaning is fine…..I didn’t realize your aim was to question my integrity.. Interesting.
Have you not done the same here?
Not that I mind, I am not offended, but I wonder, you are usually more tolerant.
I have not selectively pulled certain threads and said “I love those answers and the rest can go to hell”. I have not blatantly dehumanized a poster by labelling her with a “name” then continuously belittled her . What were you doing when all this happened? Did you cal them on their shyte? Suddenly I am to have class and not rephrase what you explicitly threw out in ‘jest’?
What your exhibiting is a jab to my integrity ML by stating that I am “more tolerant”.
?You have read previous post in the thread where I stated I don’t like the word and have no use for it. Who is playing recess games now???? | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/30/2009 11:15:22 PM |
.I didn’t realize your aim was to question my integrity.. Interesting.
What your exhibiting is a jab to my integrity ML by stating that I am “more tolerant”
you are putting words and meaning where there is none, and alas I see no humor or smilies placed
furthermore you neglected the purposely placed at the end symbolizing there was nothing of ill thoughts intended.
If one cannot discuss a subject on its own merit or resolve a misunderstanding/misinterpretation without taking offense and becoming aggressively defensive, then there is no point in a discussion. Such conduct defeats the purpose of creating stimulous by thought exchange, learning etc.
The direction this is taken exceeds my tolerances of acceptable or entertaining. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/30/2009 11:32:15 PM | Back to the regular scheduled programming.....
Do you have difficulty seeing both sides of an issue?
No, I can see both sides. The wrong side and my side.
Can you sometimes see yet another route or option other than clearly defined "white" or "black"? Will you accept the "gray" route or option?
Sometimes, if it works to satisfy both sides.
If you are generally intolerant, but have at times accepted other opinions or beliefs, what did it take for that to happen?
Written proof. Show me the fine print or shut up and kiss me. Either way.... | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 6/30/2009 11:47:13 PM |
If one cannot discuss a subject on its own merit or resolve a misunderstanding/misinterpretation without taking offense and becoming aggressively defensive, then there is no point in a discussion. Such conduct defeats the purpose of creating stimulous by thought exchange, learning etc. ..The direction this is taken exceeds my tolerances of acceptable or entertaining
You Know ML – Read what is there without smiley’s. I have answered you. If I have failed to entertain you…that is your problem not mine. I answered your questions and clarified my position. No need to make it personal.
Here is a symbol for you seeing as you require it!
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rhodax
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Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 92 | |
| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 7/1/2009 2:53:10 AM | As a young man I thought myself to be very tolerant in that I would not call non-whites or whites that spoke a different language nasty names. I thought that it was good they could come to our advanced culture and perhaps drag themselves out of their primitive lives and become good upstanding Canadians. As long as they learned to speak english I would tolerate the headgear and the earrings in the wrong places. They could live four families to a home until they got adjusted to the Canadian way of life and the kids moved out. I was the king of reasonableness and when any of my friends used a name like , paki, jungle bunny, or chink I'd gently remind them that racism is a bad thing.
They, them, the other. As long as they were making an effort to become us I could tolerate their primitive ways - for a time.
Manila 1984, sitting in a brothel half-disguised as a bar I locate the Mama-san and sit with her. The other girls will leave me alone as long as I buy her some drinks.We sit there talking as Johnless girls eye the front door waiting to pounce on the next man that walks in. The johnless boys, relegated to the back of the bar, have to wait for their paychecks to come to them. She tells me her name is Chato Moreno and I can see she is quite pregnant. I ask her about the baby and at first she is tight lipped, answering in short stilted sentences. Baby due in six weeks; Cannot stop working or she cannot pay the rent; the father is with one of the other four wives this week.
Blindsided, I blurt "but I thought Philippinos were Catholic". She tells me they are but with all the wars of empire fought against the Spanish, the Americans, and finally the Japanese the number of men was far too little for regular marriage. The women had to allow polygamy or go without a husband. They knew it was a sin but believed god would forgive them because they had no choice.
Warming up to me, or perhaps just being less distrustful, Chato told me she was trying to save enough money so that she and her child could move to America for a better life. She did not want her daughter to have to life like this where women were dying from violence and disease.
Shanghai 1984, riding on one of six buses headed to an acrobatic demostration set up by the communist party to show us Canadian Navy boys how skilled their people were. I sit down beside a Chinese soldier named Ming. I find out he is the political officer assigned as liaison and guide for our little tour.
Its a long ride and we began talking. After faltering a bit trying to talk about differences in command structures I find out he has a wife and a little girl. He hopes his little girl will become a doctor because she likes to help the people around his home, kissing boo boos better. His wife works in a butcher shop so their family occasionally gets some extra cuts of meat which they share with their neighbors and parents.
Shanghai 1984, after playing some billiards at the Peace Hotel I stroll down the Bund to the Friendship hotel. As I walk along the street though the mass of human bodies people would point, smile, and say "Janada!". My uniform acting as a magnet for curious Chinese wanting to look at their first Canadian, countrymen of the Great Cultural Hero, Doctor Norman Bethune. A doctor that served with the revolutionary forces and died from blood poisoning contracted while saving the lives of brave soldiers.
A man stops in front of me and in perfect English says that he met a Lieutenant Commander off one of the destroyers and wanted to know if I knew him. I said I did and he begins to ask me about my travels. He asks where we have been and where we are going and while he is talking I notice the crowd is thinning around us. He asks how many men are on each ship and I see the sidewalk is empty for ten feet in every direction. I see that this is a member of the secret police pumping me for information and the locals are making sure they learn nothing that they might need to be "debriefed" about. I excuse myself saying that I had to meet some people and that I hoped he had a nice day. I walk away and don't look back.
The Friendship hotel is full of people, or at least it seems that way. The lights are dim and the smoke is very thick. This is the hang-out for international students from the local universities and every race seems to be represented. I catch a word of English and turn to see a black man waving his drink at a middle eastern man in front of him, a smile and a laugh and they both take a drink. I walk over and introduce myself, asking if I could join them. They accept and introduce themselves as Aslam and Fred.
Aslam is from Sudan and a Muslim. His village pooled their money and sent their brightest son to study civil engineering. He told me of his plans to return home and build the infrastructure needed to provide clean drinking water, roads, hospitals, and other amenities that they have never had. He is to be married as soon as he returns and hopes to have many children. He says he is proud that his children will be able to grow up and live a much better life that he or his parents had.
Uganda is Fred's home and he has two months of University left before he goes back. He is to be an architect and, like Aslam, is going home to help build up his country. Fred is a widower, his family killed in a reprisal attack by Ugandan forces under Idi Amin. Fred had been a guerrilla fighter, an insurgent, trying to overthrow the western backed Amin. Somehow the government had found out where his unit was from and swooped in during the night, razing the village and killing every single person. His parents, wife, children, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and friends all snuffed out. We were quiet for a bit, I couldn't talk and I don't think Aslam could either. Fred finally broke the silence and said that things would be better now. His family was gone but he could help all the other families in the country. He could make it better. He could make it worth their sacrifice.
These people are not "Them", they are us. Where did we learn the arrogance required to "tolerate" anyone. We must understand and accept that which is good in us and NOT tolerate that which seeks to tell us that we are better than "The Other". The Other is the boogyman, the screaming muslim that hates your rights and freedoms, the liberal with an agenda, the running dogs of capitalism, the dirty rotten commie that wants to rape your wife and kill your children. The Other is the whip that drives us to war against our will. The Other is a lie. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:13:26 AM | What the heck happened to the 2 in 10 posts rule?
OT~
These people are not "Them", they are us. Where did we learn the arrogance required to "tolerate" anyone. We must understand and accept that which is good in us and NOT tolerate that which seeks to tell us that we are better than "The Other". The Other is the boogyman, the screaming muslim that hates your rights and freedoms, the liberal with an agenda, the running dogs of capitalism, the dirty rotten commie that wants to rape your wife and kill your children. The Other is the whip that drives us to war against our will. The Other is a lie.
Wow! Well said. What a wonderful mind experience has grown for you! Thank you for taking the time to say what you have here. I, for one, could not agree more.
Humour is a great way to express your opinion because it lessens the impact of what we say
Before I experienced THIS forum I agreed with this concept!
Now, I am appalled and burnt out on people who use humour:
I) against others( often in the absence of any valid debate points) to "one up" someone who's posts are informed and thoughtful
2) to justify assumptions and name call or label
3) to accuse someone who takes exception to the first two, of not having any!(humour)
I think this kind of manipulation of humour is inappropriate anywhere but, I notice the masses fall right in line,
on the forums, with condemning someone
who doesnt see "humour" in uninformed and intolerant statements wrapped in laughing smilies! | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 7/1/2009 5:11:01 PM | hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . someone just made my day . . . thanks!!!
Perhaps, tolerance begins here, but I suspect some posters do not think it counts here. | |
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rhodax
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Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 96 | |
| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 7/1/2009 6:49:26 PM |
Wow! Well said. What a wonderful mind experience has grown for you! Thank you for taking the time to say what you have here. I, for one, could not agree more.
Thank you, I'm glad my post didn't come out all confused (or did it?). It was waaay past my bedtime...
Earlier in the day I had been looking for a calendar from the Kwajalein Atoll that I know I have someplace. I didn't find the calendar but I did find a bunch of old photos that I'd forgotten I have. While looking through them I found the picture that Chato had given me the night before we sailed and it brought back a lot of memories. Once I saw the topic, I just couldn't pass it by. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 7/1/2009 6:59:26 PM | Poster 100
I almost stayed away. This thread is really windy.
I read this somewhere.
"You are a child of God, small games do not work in this world. For those around us to feel peace, it is not an example to make ourselves small. We were born to express the glory of God that lives in us. It is not in some of us, it is in all of us. While we allow our light to shine, we unconsciously give permission for others to do the same. When we liberate ourselves from our own fears, simply our presence may liberate others."
- Marianne Williamson in Return to Love: Reflections on a Course in Miracles
Consider it food for thought. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:12:54 PM | I don't really need food for thought, I have a brain for that.^^^^....same one I use for posting a statement publicly without the drama of indecsion...... | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:05:21 PM | What the heck happened to the 2 in 10 posts rule
exempt are those with:
IQ above 200
bank accounts sporting more than 1 billion
versed in legal jargon
nerds
hotter than Latino lovers
and more generally:
lovable , hugable, tolerant, learned, humble, non controlling ; in other words: invincible | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:31:45 AM | this thread should be renamed: Who is More Anal
as for Fishin....I would like the men who meet the above listed criteria.... the IQ over 200...and the Bill in the bank..etc... humble.... please contact me.
the rest of you can carry on with your contest to see who is more anal....oops I mean more tolerant.  ......and you wonder why a lot of you are still single eh? ..... who the hell can tolerate all the bickering! | |
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