| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2009 10:37:48 AM | In fairness to the message in post #174, RWW ... I would request that misquoting while mixing paragraphs be avoided.
It is not fair to confuse readers that way.
Please re-read post #174, there is nothing contradictory in it, only your misunderstanding of it makes it appear so.
Our human qualities are only limited by our ignorance and by our fears, which narrow our vision and blur what is really important.
The same human qualities can become sublime once free of intolerance caused by perhaps the pain of injustice and our perceived threats, and we finally learn to TRUST!
Only when intolerance of PEOPLE can transcend to intolerance of INJUSTICE, our world will be a much better place. Maybe our forums too.
My "voice" was on the the topic of tolerance and intolerance the whole time. I know my thinking.
MN | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2009 11:06:41 AM | Reread: The ….. were to note that there were words in between - my effort at not posting a long post. Here it is within your context!
….just a suggestion and observation that dwelling in our misery (darkness) does not provide any answers or solutions for us.
This is the opposite of what we are taught in mainstream health...that we must find the flaw, so we can fix it. Kind of like a mechanic who looks for the broken parts in the car so he can replace them.
Our human experience is not that mechanical, IMO.
We are the opposite to that!!
We are resilient beings, capable or healing and regenerating!
We fix ourselves when we turn away from dwelling on the problem in our thinking and move towards a different pattern of thinking, a more useful one, more purposeful one.
We are visionary/creative beings...yet we abort such capacity...how sad!
So in effect…with your terms MN – Dwelling is a person being stuck in the past! Who ever you experience that is dwelling has not found answers and continuously questions the experience.
How does one fix self without understanding how the problem surfaced in the first place?
I am hearing you assert that a person must stop dwelling on the problem and move to something more useful…hmmm.
In order for any human regardless of race, gender or life experience to move on, he or she must come to an understanding and accept to move on to the fluffy stuff of being more useful and purposeful other wise one is shrouded with the previous thoughts integrated in everything or beliefs one has.
Work in trauma encourages that an individual look back and recognize strengths developed or acquired as a result of such negative experiences allowing for movement from the same traumatic experience. Most cases don’t require that justice is done to meet the needs of moving on with life but that there is movement sourced from the primary event or events. This would go in tune with anyone that takes an aggressive stance on the past.
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2009 11:27:39 AM |
I am hearing you assert that a person must stop dwelling on the problem and move to something more useful…hmmm.
In order for any human regardless of race, gender or life experience to move on, he or she must come to an understanding and accept to move on to the fluffy stuff of being more useful and purposeful other wise one is shrouded with the previous thoughts integrated in everything or beliefs one has.
"Fluffy stuff" is your derogatory definition. There is nothing fluffy about being productive and useful, and there is nothing wrong with that either...However, I said something else.
I said: changing to useful, more productive ideas , whatever those may be...See the difference?
Consider this quote from "A return to love" :
"That's it! At a certain point we forgive because we decide to forgive.
Healing occurs in the present, not the past. We are not held back by the love we did not receive in the past, but the love we are not extending in the present"
In my opinion, the above is a useful idea.
MN | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2009 11:38:39 AM |
After many a battle fought, heroes on all sides, a peace is unanimously accepted to end the war. Sometimes there will remain some unwilling or unable to accept, to be honorable and with grace shake hands with their former enemy, ....
Dear ML, forgive my intolerance of your words: war, battle fought, and enemy.
I see none of that here, only an opportunity for exploration and growth.
MN | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2009 11:55:12 AM |
"That's it! At a certain point we forgive because we decide to forgive.
Healing occurs in the present, not the past. We are not held back by the love we did not receive in the past, but the love we are not extending in the present"
I assure you I see the difference!
There are and have been definitions on forgiveness that disappeared from the BC Forums. I could understand your quote above coming from the idea of forgiveness.
I also have come to understand forgiveness in it’s truest sense by becoming compassionate with myself and others through Iam007’s posts. I was basically stuck recently trying to come to terms with my anger in relation to what brought me the physical space I am in now. I was definitely angered by others tolerance.
My reference to fluffy stuff was to emphasize the notion of being productive and useful as being farfetched when individuals are dwelling in their negativity. See the difference?
Healing occurs in the present, not the past. We are not held back by the love we did not receive in the past, but the love we are not extending in the present"
I agree unless there is a time capsule….
Healing occurs in the present with issues of the past. People will withhold love or overextend love based on the self worth derived from the past.
There goes my need to be right. I feel I have come to some understanding…lol | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2009 12:29:09 PM |
I was definitely angered by others tolerance.
My reference to fluffy stuff was to emphasize the notion of being productive and useful as being farfetched when individuals are dwelling in their negativity. See the difference?
I am careful/respectful of the above because I'm outside of the situation and ignorant of the details.
But if "I get it", I'd like to add that love has no time or boundaries, it transcends time capsules....
A mango tree will continue to bear fruit even if I hate mangoes.
Creator always has and always will love us even when we don't love ourselves.
If I cannot accept someone's good will, it is obviously MY problem.
Healing occurs in the present with issues of the past. People will withhold love or overextend love based on the self worth derived from the past.
And that is the beauty of our soul, that we can transcend all of that, including time.
There comes a time when we need to give to ourselves the things others could not give us.
Marianne Williamson says it best in (again) "A return to love":
"It is only what we haven't given that can be lacking in any situation".
We get angry at our brother because he is not giving us ... respect, or whatever.
I think, in reality we are angry because our brother is, through his action, reminding us of our own lack of self-respect!
Our soul is so limitless, that we can give ourselves everything we need without having to "vampire" from anyone else. How liberating is that!
I hear you! I came from a background that was so damaging I was in pieces...for decades!
I eventually had to nurture myself, like a baby, and give myself every good thing I needed:
Love, respect, care, patience, forgiveness, acceptance, dignity. Everything I did not receive as a child.
I stopped waiting for others to give it to me. I had to give it to myself and stopped expecting others to do so, as if they owed it to me.
The interesting paradox is that the more I demanded these things from people the less I got...And then when I stopped expecting it, I GOT IT!
MN | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/19/2009 10:42:42 PM | | Differences and tolerences is what makes the world go round...what would the world be like if we were all the same ???? HUH! | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/20/2009 8:01:02 AM | My words #186: My reference to fluffy stuff was to emphasize the notion of being productive and useful as being farfetched when individuals are dwelling in their negativity. See the difference?
I am careful/respectful of the above because I'm outside of the situation and ignorant of the details.
What details? This is my thoughts on your thoughts useful more productive ideas . MN, I can’t help but feel you have gone into your own thoughts….in effect have nothing to do with tolerance and intolerance. Why not speak of the situation you have created in your mind? Seems the tolerant create assumptions and hang on to beliefs that enforce their thinking….keeping things as they are. This is a good example.
"It is only what we haven't given that can be lacking in any situation".
We get angry at our brother because he is not giving us ... respect, or whatever. I think, in reality we are angry because our brother is, through his action, reminding us of our own lack of self-respect! Our soul is so limitless, that we can give ourselves everything we need without having to "vampire" from anyone else. How liberating is that!
I don’t understand what your connotation is by vampire? And how does it relate to anything I have said. If I am reading your thread as is, your suggesting the intolerant in their anger feel guilt as to their own lack of respect? I realize when talking about tolerance and intolerant it needs to be within a theme/topic and deciphering like you did above does not make sense. I don’t agree with the quote above on it’s own. Basically what I think you are saying is, for all the times I made responses to others lack of respect in past threads in this forum – I must look at my on lack of respect and not theirs? Hmmmm
I had to give it to myself and stopped expecting others to do so, as if they owed it to me. The interesting paradox is that the more I demanded these things from people the less I got...And then when I stopped expecting it, I GOT IT!
Am glad you got it…still don’t know how the above applies to me. This is assuming you are making a response to my previous post. Is there an unspoken belief that I am to clue in on?
I have friends that assume I should know the grief they are in. The only thing I can link myself up with that is common to all human beings is how they are feeling projected by what I see. I would be showing an injustice by assuming I know the problem and feeding what they think is owed to them. You might think about that! | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/20/2009 8:11:52 AM |
lol ...I wonder why such thoughts when presented in movies, theater, public broadcast discussion etc are readily accepted and understood ....
yet on forums there is such ...ahm, for the lack of better words...such narrow spectrum of tolerance
Well Mr Narrator; it could be because we are not living in a prescripted environment like Hollywood; broadcasts speak to specific audiences – and create limits to their audience - its part of the marketing agenda. You might liste to CBC radio….they market to all cultures…lol
So think of narrow spectrum of tolerance and the POF audience. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/20/2009 8:19:32 AM |
Am glad you got it…still don’t know how the above applies to me. This is assuming you are making a response to my previous post. Is there an unspoken belief that I am to clue in on?
This thread is about tolerance and intolerance. It is not about you RWW.
Maybe if you get yourself out of the way you may be able to understand the things I wrote.
Enough said.
MN | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/20/2009 8:25:07 AM |
This thread is about tolerance and intolerance. It is not about you RWW.
Maybe if you get yourself out of the way you may be able to understand the things I wrote.
Enough said.
ACknowledged! | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/20/2009 9:25:14 PM | ^My interpretation of what you quoted is that this poster does not mean you the person but means your ego. (Please correct me if I am wrong or dont. LOL)
Many posters, including myself, let their egos get in the way. It is all about being a right and an expert on the topic. We are all just learning although in certain areas some people have more expertise.
In general, I have found that posters can be competitive in POF. Everyone wants to be right about everything. It is all about one-upping others.
These are just my thoughts on the subject and I am not trying to offend anyone. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/21/2009 12:42:06 AM | lol...Jane I am not offended...
MN quoted my previous post to hers....I made reference to her post - If she says it is not about me...it is what it is. My ego is in tact Jane...just reread the posts and look for meaning. I would say its more about clarification, understanding and an effort in creating options with reference to the topic at hand. I don't agree with the idea that everyone wants to be right or upping others.....
Just leave it be Jane unless you have other new ideas on tolerance and intolerance. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/21/2009 12:21:23 PM | ^LOL - You are so not alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just leave it be Jane unless you have other new ideas on tolerance and intolerance.
Actually, when I was only trying to be helpful. By ego, I meant let go of the need to be right. I am not saying you are wrong. I am just saying consider that others may be right also.
The only thing I have to add about tolerance is that it makes us better people when we try and understand why a person has certain ideas about subject even when they conflict with our own. When we try to understand others and their views, we exercise empathy which is most likely the heart of tolerance. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/23/2009 10:51:37 PM | jane girl - you're just casting pearls before swine - or trolls - or whatever the village mob is comprised of tonight LOL. you have MUCH more tolerance than me! 
The PMS Sniper  | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/25/2009 9:34:53 PM | w00t!1 finally a thread worth reading all the way through! Tolerance and Intolerance -- quite a challenging topic, but challenges always bring out the best in us, the true in us.
Coming late to the party, I didn't quite get the hurt feelings. I was just reading the words, trying to catch up with the points that were being made, so I was sometimes surprised when posts came up with reactions about a misinterpretation.
I enjoyed the debate over ideas. I liked how people called each other out to better explain their points of view. Now that's not a comfortable thing when we're not used to it or not expecting it, or if someone isn't very skillful at expressing themselves, but this is, after all, a forum for discussion. While I do enjoy the funny threads (what the hell happened to "Can I Get You a Glass of Haterade?"), this is one of the few threads I've come across that I've found to be very thought-provoking.
And because of all of your intense discussion, here are some thoughts that came up for me: Sometimes words come laden with judgement, for example, "intolerant" can be used as a synonym for "close-minded" or for "passionately opinionated"; "tolerant" can mean "wishy-washy" or "all embracing". Yeah, we can look up the definition in the dictionary, but how we use the words mean more, reveal more.
I used to say that I was intolerant of the intolerant. But now, after reading this thread, I realize that the real language that describes what I'm feeling is that I'm bored or impatient with the intolerant.
Then I thought of one of my heroes, Dr Martin Luther King, Jr, known for his message of tolerance. Was he ever intolerant? Most people would say that he was intolerant of injustice, that he was intolerant of the harm caused to others, as well as the harm that comes to the perpetrators of injustice. Gandhi, Jesus, MLK -- our greatest leaders teach that while love must guide us, we don't have to be wimps about it. Nonviolent resistance or civil disobedience takes tremendous creativity, and it requires that we love the people we're hoping to persuade to change. That is, love them, while remaining intolerant of their behaviour/actions.
"Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love." ~ MLK
I don't want to be wishy-washy, nor do I want to be closed-minded, but I'm still quite a ways from loving my neighbours, even from afar. | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/25/2009 10:57:30 PM |
Then I thought of one of my heroes, Dr Martin Luther King, Jr, known for his message of tolerance. Was he ever intolerant? Most people would say that he was intolerant of injustice, that he was intolerant of the harm caused to others, as well as the harm that comes to the perpetrators of injustice. Gandhi, Jesus, MLK -- our greatest leaders teach that while love must guide us, we don't have to be wimps about it. Nonviolent resistance or civil disobedience takes tremendous creativity, and it requires that we love the people we're hoping to persuade to change. That is, love them, while remaining intolerant of their behaviour/actions.
Beautifully expressed, thank you sofasophia!!
MN | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:44:00 AM | Dr Martin Luther King...endless respect for the man who had endless vision, compassion, and courage and actually walked the walk...unfortunately we kill all our christs off in the end...
The PMS Spiritual Quester | |
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| The tolerant and the less-tolerant
Posted: 10/25/2009 4:15:10 PM | Seeing someone post requesting a definition of narrow-mindedness I googled for it.
having a biased or illiberal viewpoint; bigoted, intolerant, or prejudiced
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/narrow-minded
Lacking tolerance, breadth of view, or sympathy; petty.
http://www.answers.com/topic/narrow-minded
That led me to this thread. | |
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