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| leashes?
Posted: 8/21/2008 10:13:16 PM | Hate leashes on humans. They look horrid.
That said, I have to admit my 12 year old son would be alot easier to keep track of in a store/mall if I put a leash on him. He's 5'4" and weighs 140# . . . wouldn't he look silly? | |
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Posted: 8/21/2008 11:34:09 PM | Well, oesboy, you could put shackles and handcuffs on him - that way he would look dangerous instead of silly.  | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 4:35:55 AM | How funny that I should come across this post today as I am shopping for a harness for my 3 year old! Well, I guess you can see which side of the "argument" I sit on.
To be honest, I used to think they were horrid creations...then I had my older daughter when my son was 3 years old. He was big for his age, strong, and impulsive. He knew the safety rules, could recite them back to you, and was usually very well behaved; but when he decided to take off he was a fast mover and shaker. I couldn't simply leave my newborn behind or put her in harms way to chase him at anytime. We have since discovered that he does have some psych diagnoses that contributed to this, but regardless the priority was keeping him safe at all times. For him, the "leash" (gosh I hate that word for it) was a physical reminder when he had a thought to run until he was mature enough to self control in more ways .
My older daughter never needed anything like that...but that was her temperament (in many ways she is my "easy child" as she doesn't have the impulsivity and need to run like my other 2).
My youngest is a runner...she will take off at the drop of a hat if she sees and open opportunity. This is normally something that is easily handled as I don't give her any opportunity but we are planning a trip to the beach this coming week and I know the boardwalk is going to be a tempting place to run for her. Some may say to keep her in a stroller, or to keep her in hand at all times but that is just not reality for us if we want to have a positive experience. She values her independence, and this is one way that she can maintain it in a "safe way."
In short, give me looks of shock if you wish. Say I am a bad mother who hasn't taught my child appropriate safety precautions at age appropriate times. Say I am treating my child like a dog. Whatever. I know what works best for us, and safety is a first priority...my child's healthy and happy development is second to that. If a child harness is going to assist in that, then I will be the first in line to get one! Feel free to have an opinion, but please refrain from judging others as long as a child is not being harmed...  | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 7:12:20 AM | Although I am not a big fan of them myself, I feel to each their own. My mom used them on my nephew and my oldest daughter. When my girls were younger, if I needed my hands free to pay for something I took their hand and guided it to my pantleg or bottom of my shirt, and asked them to hold on there. I would be able to feel if they let go.
As far as this comment
Why taking a toddler to Disney or to a fair in the first place? Their little brains will be overwhelmed to exhaustion in places like that, so it's not a good idea to take them there anyway - regardless of the crowds. I have to STRONGLY disagree! My youngest was 2 1/2 on her first trip to disney and she LOVED it! They are certainly old enough to enjoy such places, and although they may tire earlier than older children, does not mean it woud be a bad idea to take them there. Their "little brains" can handle more than you apparently think! We went back 3 years later and my daughter then 5 1/2 even recalled a few things from her first trip once she saw things. It is truly amazing how much "their little brains" can handle!
Parents know their own children, and it is their job to do what is best for them and their children. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 7:26:50 AM | | For the record, in no way did ANYONE here say that by leashing your child anyone who did this was a "bad mother". I believe there are much, much better solutions to this issue and think the practice is terribly misguided and there are better parenting alternatives then this. God forbid anyone in these threads actually listens to what anyone else has to say and perhaps learns something about parenting. Trying something different, or listening to what other single parents have to say can sometimes HELP a parent you know...I wonder why people post questions asking for opinions, as if perhaps they are not entirely certain what they are doing is right, when they have no intention of doing it anyway other then their way. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 7:29:26 AM | I think leashes are just fine. I never used one, but there are times when I wished I had one...
Leashes are not punishment, they are used to ensure SAFETY of a child. Also, they are easier on some children - than, say, a short child having to hold his arm up for hours to hold mom or dad's hand.
Some kids are harder to handle than others, some have hyperactivity and attention deficit problems, and need eyes on them every second ... and parents are only human! If a simple leash can help to ensure a child's safety and give the parent a little piece-of-mind, why not??
I was one of the most attentive, cautious, paranoid mothers around ... and yet my daughter slipped away from me once at a children's fair. If a simple leash could have prevented her from sneaking off - and the 5 minutes of absolute terror it caused, you bet I would have used a leash!
OP ... Do what you are comfortable with ... and works best for you and your child at the time. What keeps you sane and your child safe is what matters at the moment. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 7:30:38 AM | Personally,
I think leashes are ridiculous and clearly show who the unattentive and irresponsible single parent is, just like their children are! You are the boss so if you don't have control, both are a mess. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 7:30:50 AM | You know they make strollers to hold 40-50+ pounds, right? They are designed to hold (most) kids until the age of 4. If anyone here has a two year old that weighs more than 50 pounds, you need to see a doctor about that.
I wonder if they make those connectors like they do for dog leashes. You know, you can hook the connector to each dog and then use one leash. That'd be cool cause then you could have a whole herd of kids and just tie them all together.
OP ... Do what you are comfortable with ... and to heck with what other "busybodies" think. It's not thier child that could get lost, abducted, or run out in front of a vehicle!
No one is picking on the OP. She asked a question and us "busybodies" have every right to answer the question. Is that not what a discussion is about? | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 7:44:36 AM | | Let's put it this way.....if the child respects and loves the parent then the child will appreciate that and stay by their side. If the child has severe ADD or some other mental disorder then stay at home or if you feel the need to be at a festival then bring a friend to assist while always holding the child's hands. Need food? Keep the child in front of you and pull out a 20 beforehand and ask for a box to hold the food. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 7:50:30 AM | QUOTE I wonder if they make those connectors like they do for dog leashes. You know, you can hook the connector to each dog and then use one leash. That'd be cool cause then you could have a whole herd of kids and just tie them all together.
LMAO rawrrrr.....yeah, that'd be cool to watch......the herd of kids running away or the parent's back breaking from all directions.  | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 8:09:43 AM |
The next time we were in a store she did this again. I mirrored her exactly three feet away walking through the clothes. At one moment she stopped. Looked around and then began to cry because she could not see Dad. After 15 seconds of crying I walked out. I explained once again why we don't wander away. This time she understood and never did it again.
That works wonderfully - for some children. It did for my older son. My younger son, however, was a different kettle of fish all together. He got focused on what he was interested in and nothing else mattered - couldn't find mom? No big deal, because XYZ is *fascinating*!
I found the leash to be a lifesaver with my younger son. He has mild Asperger's and at times, has a real aversion to being held - the leash provided me with a way to maintain him close to me without further upsetting him by forcing him to hold my hand (and we all know how squirmy 2 and 3 year olds can be when they don't want to hold your hand). When trying to maintain more then one child in a crowded area (amusement parks, fairs, shopping malls, etc), the leash can be the difference between a happy trip and one spent with a very upset *OR* missing toddler.
I used one with him at times between ages 18 months and 3-3.5 yrs... after that he didn't need it anymore and was cognitively able to understand the consequences of not staying with mommy. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 8:20:37 AM |
Eventually you won't be able to leash them, and then what are going to do? Hope for the best? What about when they are 5, 6, 7 to 12 years old? I would rather empower my child with knowledge and teach them then raise them in fear of a remote possibility or not teach them anything at all.
Simple - they DO mature and learn to obey rule.
Mine did. As per my previous post - I used one for my younger son because he was a very headstrong and active child - he also has an aversion to being touched at times. As he grows up (as children do), he has developed the cognitive skills required to remember and follow rules.
People also use strollers for infants and toddlers - not because they all can't walk (most children over the age of one can), but because it is a stepping stone to being able to walk well over long distances and it contains them until they are of age to have th cognitive skills required to follow the rules.
We don't expect toddlers to have the same responsibilities as teenagers - because they aren't mature enough yet. Same deal with the leashes - some children are not mature enough yet to handle the responsibility of following the rule (staying with mommy/daddy). As they grow up, they develop the maturity to handle it.
I highly doubt I became a worse parent from my first child to my second, yet I didn't need a leash with my first and felt I did with my second - my first was a much calmer, more laidback, naturally obedient child. My second was willful, challenging, active and assertive - he required different handling and parenting then the first and that included keeping him safe when he was too young and immature to do so for himself. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 8:21:52 AM |
I know I defended the no leash side already, but seriously, each parent needs to do what works for them and feels right in their own particular situation. There is no right or wrong answer to parenting. We all have our own personalities that shape how our children are raised. I won't judge you if you use a leash, if you would not judge me that my daughter had a bottle till she was way past standard "bottle age".
Precisely!
You know your child and what works best - and that's what you need to go with. :) | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 8:28:47 AM |
and I have to admit that seeing kids that are dragged behind and yanked around on leashes makes me cringe. Just because leashes might seem convenient for the parents doesn't justify their use, IMO. What's next? Gagging your kids, so they don't scream in public venues? Handcuffing the lil ones, so they don't touch anything in stores or museums?
I used a leash with my younger son and never dragged him behind me nor yanked him around.
I realize you feel that your experience with caring for other people's children makes you feel that you are equally as experienced and proficient in parenting as someone who is a parent, but I will be very honest with you - something changes when you BECOME a parent and are taking care of your *own* child 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. You learn things that you think you know now. Please don't take this as an insult, it isn't - and I know you won't believe me, but you really don't understand. Not yet. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 8:41:18 AM | ""If the child has severe ADD or some other mental disorder then stay at home""
So, Klopper ... it is your opinion that children with behavior/mental disorders should be locked up at home instead of being out experiencing life ... just because some people find it offensive to see a leash being used???
"""If child respects and loves the parent then the child will appreciate that and stay by their side"""
hmmm... I can see a person who does not know children at all saying that, but you have kids??
Now I'm thinking that in order to be so judgemental (message 32), you surely must have had the child(ren) 24/7 ... with no help at all from your ex ...and did all the shopping, yardwork, and recreational activities with your children at your side? And not once did a child ever get distracted and wander from your sight?
Wow, you must be one amazing human being ... I never knew such perfection existed! | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 8:45:31 AM | One of my sons ran away ONCE. I did make the mistake of chasing after him initially, but then I turned around and deliberately walked in the opposite direction. That was the LAST time he did that. You should have seen how quickly he realized it wasn’t a game and came flying back! Once he came back, he got his very first lecture from me. And he never ran or wandered off again.
It is our job to teach our children. I use the same parenting methodology on my child. I teach her to be responsbile for her actions.
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Posted: 8/22/2008 8:47:35 AM |
That works wonderfully - for some children. It did for my older son. My younger son, however, was a different kettle of fish all together. He got focused on what he was interested in and nothing else mattered - couldn't find mom? No big deal, because XYZ is *fascinating*!
You need to find what works to teach the child to be responsible for their actions.
I'm curious...what does the leash teach them? | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 9:30:29 AM |
Jayderaven wrote:
I used a leash with my younger son and never dragged him behind me nor yanked him around.
Just because you (claim you) never did it doesn't mean that nobody doesn't do it. That "mother" I saw the other day, however, did yank and drag her child around, and it was a horrible sight. If that poor kid has learned anything from that experience it was treating other people disrespectful and inconsiderate.
I realize you feel that your experience with caring for other people's children makes you feel that you are equally as experienced and proficient in parenting as someone who is a parent, but I will be very honest with you - something changes when you BECOME a parent and are taking care of your *own* child 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. You learn things that you think you know now. Please don't take this as an insult, it isn't - and I know you won't believe me, but you really don't understand. Not yet.
Of course it is an insult. And it is nonsense on top of that. Just because somebody doesn't have children doesn't mean that they don't know what's going on. You don't need to experience each and every thing to know it. It is not only possible but actually smart to learn from others. Just because someone isn't a politician doesn't mean that they don't know politics. Just because someone isn't a doctor doesn't mean they don't know medical treatments. Just because someone isn't an athlete doesn't mean that they don't know sports. Arguably the best kicking coach in football has been in a wheelchair all of his life. He has never stood on his own legs, he has never kicked a ball himself, yet he knows as well as or even better than most kickers how to do it right.
I am fully aware of children's behaviour. I have worked with young children, I have seen many, many of them being physically and mentally and emotionally abused by their utterly incompetent parents. Have you ever asked yourself what kind of scar the experience of being held on a leash might leave on a child's psych and what effect that might have on them growing up?
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Posted: 8/22/2008 11:01:51 AM | This is obviously an issue based on personal values, where people are either going to agree with you or not based on their feelings of the subject. However, it seems to have gone from an "I agree/I disagree" to a debate on parenting styles and abilities.
In my opinion, harnesses are not designed to separate the good parents from the bad or eliminate the need for discipline. As each child is different, so are their learning styles. Some kids are visual learners, content to stand quietly and observe the world around them; some are auditory learners, who again can stand quietly and learn by what they hear; and some are tactile or kinesthetic learners who learn through a hands-on approach. These are the kids who actively explore the physical world around them. They may find it hard to sit still for long periods and may become distracted by their need for activity and exploration. (Unfortunately, these children are also the ones sometimes misdiagnosed as ADD, but that's another discussion entirely) Realistically some children can be sat down and explained what is acceptable behavior in public and what is not, and they understand it, while others just do not have the capacity to fully grasp it. This doesn't make the parent inadequate.
In terms of leashes, I agree that some parents abuse them, and substitute them for situations that do not support their use. However, in some cases where it might be necessary for safety, I can support the use of leashes. As far as what effect leashes will psychologically have on a child, depends on their use and the child they are being used on. Since some people here have compared leases to chained dogs, lets use them as an example. In some cases, taking that dog off a leash results in the dog bolting for their freedom. However, for some, taking them off doesn't change their behavior, they act as though they are still on the leash having already established their boundaries.
And as for the people who argue that having a child abducted doesn't happen that often, I would argue that point. A quick search on the site for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children will show you just how many children are missing from your state. While they do consider a child anyone under the age of 18, some of these children have been missing since they were under the age of 5. And according to the NCMEC's Annual Report over 700,000 children are reported missing each year, making that over 2,000 reported a day. So it's not so far-fetched to worry about your child being taken. Just because it doesn't make the news or your local ABMER alert, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. While that's not to say you should live in fear 24 hours a day, you'd never leave your house, you also cannot always assume that its not going to happen.
All that being said, I never used a leash with my son, an consider myself lucky that my son understood why he needed to stay with me, but I know people who have used them. Ultimately leashes are a personal preference that depends on the child and the parent. If it gives you a little piece of mind and makes life just a little easier, then by all means, use it wisely. Because, lets face it, while it's important to keep an eye on your child, you're only born with two eyes and they must both point in the same direction. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 11:05:31 AM | Urbanessa...
And what effect does it have on a child's psyche when they get lost and traumatized or get ran over by a car, (or never do get to grow up)? I was about 5 when I got lost at one of my first ever experiences in a "crowd" (we lived on a pretty isolated farm), and it was one of the most traumatic experiences of my life ... maybe even why to this day I panic when I feel "lost"...
I agree that one does not necessarily have to be a parent to underderstand children, but only a parent understands the terror of losing their child ... that is something you have to FEEL to understand. The approximate five minutes my girl went missing put me in an absolute hysterical state ... it was like losing your mind,heart, stomach and soul all at the same time.
Leashes, like ANYTHING else, can be a great thing ... but like ANYTHING else, they can be misused by abusive parents. If a leash is misused, it's the abusive parents that are the problem, not the leash.
To keep things in check, we are talking about a type of harness ... not a chain around the neck that tightens if the child strays. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 11:17:33 AM |
And what effect does it have on a child's psyche when they get lost and traumatized or get ran over by a car, (or never do get to grow up)? I was about 5 when I got lost at one of my first ever experiences in a "crowd" (we lived on a pretty isolated farm), and it was one of the most traumatic experiences of my life ... maybe even why to this day I panic when I feel "lost"...
And let me ask you this: Has that experience taught you to stay close(r) to your parents from that day on? I bet it has. Lesson learned.
As for "get run over by a car" - I am somewhat baffled that the pro-leash league seems to ignore other possibilities. Like holding your kid's hand. Like using a stroller. Like having the child grabbing your sweater or pants while you are busy fumbling with your money while paying for something. Like explaining the dangers of traffic to your kids over and over and over again. Would you have gotten lost if your mother had held your hand? That's highly unlikely.
And if you are panicking as a grown-up whenever you feel "lost" you are most certainly someone who should seek professional help in that particular issue.
To keep things in check, we are talking about a type of harness ... not a chain around the neck that tightens if the child strays.
A harness, exactly. That's what my dog wears when he goes on the leash...
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Posted: 8/22/2008 11:53:24 AM | Although I do thank you for the suggestion to seek professional help for that particular issue, it is really not necessary ... it's just a feeling that passes for brief moments on rare occasions.
Yes, It did teach me -for a while- to stay closer to my mom in some situations.
My mother had 3 young children, and one was very demanding. She only had 2 hands. Another time when visiting the city, I bolted and ran out into the street in front of a "beetle" car and came within inches of being run over. If a leash would have kept us kids together and more managable, it's too bad my mom didn't have one.
Yes, my dogs wear leashes and/or harnesses when necessary. I do not want to lose them, or see them get run over. They usually listen very well, but ... if a rabbit happens to hop across the road, they lose all discipline and common sense. Using the comparison of a dog to a child really doesn't phase on me much tho ... we do our best to care for all living beings that we care for.
But, I'll rest at saying "to each their own" . Whatever works to keep each child safe. | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 12:29:22 PM | | I put my daughter on a harness, My mom thought she looked liek a puppy dog! And i purposely put dalmation tights on her! haha nice mom I no! I did this cause we took the bus alot around town. ANd when you dont have a stroller, and you have a 2 yr old running around you get kinda scared holding grocerys a 2 yr old and your beside a road... ya not cool.. i turned my head once when she wasnt on a harness, to put the pizza down so i could hold her and she nearly ran into traffic.. scary! So im all for it! ANd if you think your restraining your child from ebing a child, waht if that child ran into the street, or think about strollers? Isnt that restraining them??? | |
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Posted: 8/22/2008 12:52:56 PM | | Kissin, the reasoning behind the fact that child abduction rarely takes place in a busy social environment - a "snatch and grab" - is because it's true. The total number of abducted children in any given state is irrelevant as approx 98% of those are kidnapped by an ex-spouse or family member. Less then 1% of your 700,000 number are actual kidnappings: "115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. (These crimes involve someone the child does not know or someone of slight acquaintance, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently", taken from NCMEC's website. We are discussing a stranger abducting a child in the middle of a state fair or Disney and the unlikelyhood of this happening. Let's use facts based on the debate at hand - I dislike fear mongering or statistics used out of context in the attempt to prove one's point. | |
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| leashes?
Posted: 8/22/2008 1:18:39 PM | I think it depends on how your child is, it's more a safety need to use hazard than anything else, but to use it often, won't show your child to be near you, you're just dependent on the leash. For me, I've only used it a few times when my daughter and I went on a trip to france for 10 days. My daughter is a 2 yr old that loves to wander and curious to explore. I've tried teh walk away and thinking she'd come back, nope, she was too busy exploring that she didn't turn back. I didn't want to wait more than a few seconds since it only takes seconds for her to go farther away.
It's more due to my unfamilarity with places we are going and I don't want her to get lost. It was a good safe way to keep her near me, while I have bags of luggage that I need to check out, paperwork that I needed to take out and give to go on the flight. I also had one that is a teddybear backpack with a tail as the leash, yes I thought it was pretty funny to have to use it, but it was a big help when I had my hands full with bags/paperwork. Not to mention having to be in line to go through to pass inspection. with her love to wander, it saved me time from chasing after her and making sure we get to our flight area. Once we were there and waited, I took it off and let her play. Then in going to another big airport, which was a nightmare altogether when you have a toddler in one hand, and 2 bags and a carryon wheel bag, and being rushed to catch the next stopover flight I had to stop midway and put the harness back so she wouldn't take off the opposite way. That didn't work because she resisted and went in circles, so the harness didn't work for that reason, but it did help her to stay near me while I found a way to get the bags and her on it so I could go ont he other side of the terminal. I had one person who saw that it was a good idea since she wished she had one since her toddler runs off. And I've seen a few who gave me odd glances. Especially in France, because I'm sure they don't use it. But since it's new to me, and being not kid-friendly in a lot of places, I had to use the leash as a way of her not going to far from me, while holding onto her stroller that was folded up and a bag. Not to mention having to keep her from touching the ropes in museums. But it helped not at all so I stopped using it, and just be frustrated. I did use it when we were at the airports though.
When I came home, I got a nice email from my best friend whom I visited in france saying how using hte leash was to show I had no control over my child, but that's her opinion, yes I was upset, but that's her viewpoint. I wouldn't use it all the time but it was my comfort to make sure she's safe and near me. Maybe some have that viewpoint and thinking it's like you have a dog instead of a child, but I could care less, it's a safety measure. If I know the area well, I dont' mind her being free-spirited and wander her lovely heart out. But I'd rather be made fun of than lose her in a different country where anything can happen. Age does play a role as well in why you'd want to need to use a leash. | |
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