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| Independent Women
Posted: 12/1/2008 3:37:22 PM | | Did she ever tell you she would never leave you? | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 12/1/2008 7:47:16 PM | Okay Huntin'! I saw from reading your other post that you put these out there to start some conversation! So - here goes! As one of the other posters aluded to, women of 100 years ago didn't stay married because they were ecstatically happy in their marriages! They stayed because until sometime around the turn of the century, depending on which state you lived in, married women were not allowed to own property in their own name, maintain a bank account, or legally conduct business! I believe you must have grown up in the western United States, as women in the west were much more independent than their relatives on the eastern seaboard. This was often due to the fact that their husbands died during the trek to the western territories!
However, I note that you hold yourself up as a Christian! I would ask you to refer to your bible and really study the description of the wife in Proverbs 31:10. This woman is not "dependent" on anyone! She is a shrewd manager of her family's finances! You will note that she not only deals in goods from afar, but she buys and sells real estate from her earnings! She makes profits from her trades, takes care not only of her family, but also of the poor and needy. Her husband holds her in high regard - not because she is dependent upon him, but because she is a strong, independent woman who brings her strength, knowledge, and abilities to bear in doing her share to build a strong family! This woman is no weak willed female that needs a man to shelter her from the world! This is a woman that cherishes her husband because he recognizes her value and cherishes her in return!
My grandparents brought ten children into this world, and loved each other from the day they married until their dying day! My grandfather worked hard to provide for his family! My grandmother worked hard to provide a good home and take care of all who entered! They had mutual respect and appreciation for each other! If you want to do something about the divorce rate, you might teach men to find wives that they can hold with respect and integrity instead of looking for arm candy! And - once they have wives that are "more precious than rubies" they might keep their peckers in their pants! It would help immensely!
Just my opinion! | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 12/1/2008 8:46:46 PM | Some sections of the Bible are intended to teach doctrine. Others are historical, while others are poetic, or prayers, worship, or the writers' expressions to God, about God, or even about people. So many people, including some Bible teachers, don't seem to distinguish this, or even understand it.
Proverbs is made up of many sayings of wisdom, but is not intended to teach doctrine or history. I hear preachers or teachers use Proverbs and Psalms to teach doctrine or absolutes about God and His character. Here's one for you: read Psalm 147:10; the psalmist is describing God's thoughts as he believes them to be-
"He does not delight in the strength of the horse;
He does not take pleasure in the legs of a man."
Do you really believe that He who created both of these things doesn't delight or pleasure in his creation? The strength of a horse? My gosh, one of the most impressive things about the horse, is it's strength. Now, God may not take pleasure in my legs or someone elses, or in where the legs of man sometimes takes him to- evil activities. The psalmist isn't talking about man's, or a horse's, sins which, of course, God would not take pleasure in. Horses don't sin, of course, but you get my point.
There are hundreds of verses in Psalms and Proverbs that have great truths in them, that could be applied literally, but even at that, they are not doctrine. Wisdom, yes. Doctrine or fact, not necessarily.
Likewise, The Proverbs 31 woman doesn't exist, and never has in one package. The doctrinal books of the new testament lay out a husband and wife's roles very clearly.
Do I believe all of the Bible. Yes. But there are lies in the Bible spoken by people. There are many violent activities, and immoral activities recorded in the Bible. I can't use those for doctrine either. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 12/1/2008 9:14:32 PM | "Likewise, The Proverbs 31 woman doesn't exist, and never has in one package. "
Excuse me, but just because you apparently have never been married to her, doesn't mean she doesn't exist!
I have known many women who would walk equally and proudly with the Proverbs 31 woman! In fact, I am related to any number of them, and while I am humble enough to realize that I probably don't come close to her standards, I sure believe that I am pretty close!
Could it be that you don't see women as a partner or helpmate in life, as God intended. You want someone who you can keep dependent upon you for their well being, rather than someone is strong and independent and is in the relationship because you both "want" to be, not because either of you "need" to be! | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 12/1/2008 10:02:12 PM | No human could do all the things that the Proverbs 31 woman does and raise a family, attend all the ball games, meetings, etc., get enough sleep, never be on the PMS cycle of her month, and on and on.
In my entire life, I have met some very wonderful women, who were happily married, who were excellent wives and mothers. But even they couldn't even begin to be this bionic, super woman described in Proverbs.
Not possible this side of heaven. Just like we are to be holy, Christ-like as commanded is not possible, because we are weighed down with our humanness. But, at the same time, we are to see the Proverbs 31 woman, and Jesus Christ, as examples to shoot for. No very high goal set, no high goals attained.
How many men would want a Proverbs 31 woman anyway? Myself, I'll take a woman who loves me unconditionally, wants to spend a lot of time with me, flirting, holding hands, kissing, and many hours of lovemaking, going to bed at a reasonable hour with me, and available to make love or share time with me many hours a day, over the busy one spoken of in Proverbs 31.
Everyone needs his or her time and space for themselves. But when lovers get as busy as the Proverbs 31 woman, something has to go by the wayside. You know what it usually is? Sharing time and, of course, lovemaking. Then the relationship is going in the toilet. Men are often guilty as well, maybe even more so, of being too busy to spend the time with their wives that the wives crave. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 12/5/2008 2:57:17 PM |
I don't know about other guys, but when I see a woman use the term "independent" in her profile to describe herself, a red-flag goes up. "Independent" to me can mean that at some point she won't need the man anymore. Then it is easy to toss him out like a worthless shoe.
A) I've never met a woman that would throw out a shoe, worthless or not. But I've also never known a woman to toss out a man without reason the man provided. Being independent has nothing to do with it.
B)I like independent women. Dependent women are boring and a bit annoying.
It is funny that there was a day over 100 years ago when divorce was rare. And women were happy. Of course women didn't work much outside the home then, and they couldn't vote. We have progressed since then.
LOL! This is just so wrong. First of all, the average housewife spent 11 hours a day doing housework. They didn't have dishwashers and washing machines and electricity. These poor women were little more than slaves.
Second, women couldn't get a job 100 years ago. They had no choice but to stay with their husbands no matter how evil he was.
I doubt there was much happiness there. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 12/5/2008 5:31:41 PM | We've heard so much about how bad the women of old had it. Those must have been some real bad men to treat their slave wives so horribly. I feel so sorry for all those old time women who had life so bad.
The forerunners of the modern women's liberation movement sure got there message across for all the generations that followed. It's taking all my will power to keep from crying a bucket of tears for my great, great, great grandmother and all the women in her generation and all those that went before.
Come on all you guys out there, let's have a pity party for all those horribly treated and overworked women. And we should rejoice for how well our modern generation women have it. All their problems have been solved.
See. Don't they all sound SO Happy. I'm so glad to be a part of this generation of women who finally got the whole country and world straightened out. Let's all take our hats off to them. WOW! I'm Impressed. Nola and I should get together for a party to celebrate what today's women have accomplished for mankind. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 12/5/2008 7:15:45 PM | Since women got the vote, (I'm not saying anything about that, I'm just saying since they got the vote) the following wonderful things have been accomplished in our country (sarcasm intended)-
1. We now kill hundreds of thousands of unborn babies every year. Of course, if you kill a batch of unwanted puppies, kittens or some other animal, you have committed a terrible crime.
2. We felt sorry for those unfortunate individuals who were "born" homosexuals, (or had an "awakening" to their true sexuality--why don't they look down and see which sex God made them, but that wasn't good enough), so they are now on the verge of having more rights than we heterosexuals.
3. The white American male currently has the least chance of getting hired for a job of all other people groups, all qualifications being equal (excluding the ability to speak a foreign language, especially Spanish. We all know that the Spanish-speaker will almost always get the job over the non-S-speaker. Why? Because he or she can communicate to those inports who don't bother to learn our language. And we want to make sure they can all get food stamps and health benefits).
4. In many circles, animals have been elevated to a position on a par with humans.
5. We are getting closer all-the-time to having our 2nd amendment gun-rights taken away from us. After all, the logical-minded women are convinced that guns kill people, (rather than the people using them doing it) and that if you take away the gun rights, all or most of the gun violence will be eliminated. We all know that when you make something illegal, all the criminals turn in their stashes in order to abide by the wishes of the law, right? And they no longer have any way of getting ahold of whatever it is that is illegal, right?
6. Nearly half of all pre-school age kids' moms now work, many full-time, while they farm their children off and let others do what God intended for them to do. But they were unhappy investing all that time into America's future leaders, when they could have been selling potato chips at the local grocery store for barely minimum wage. Of course, we can see the "positive" results of that. This latest generation has it more together, and they are more respectful, than all those that came before. NOT!
!!! The civil rights movement, particularly relative to African Americans (got to get that one correct, after all they were the ones that coined the label for themselves, "blacks," which is no longer politically correct. Believe me, I am not the least bit prejudice toward African Americans; I'm only alluding to how we all must be "politically correct" in our terminology.), has been a great thing that was accomplished. I've heard women say that never would have happened if it hadn't been for women voting. Were they voting at the end of the Civil War when slavery was abolished? No. Men made their mistakes, yes, and they were getting them worked out, and would have also eventually worked out the civil rights to its current extent. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 12/5/2008 8:51:17 PM | | Is being an idiot like being high all the time? | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 12/5/2008 9:19:03 PM | Wow, that's 7/7. So wrong, on so many levels. Unbelievable.
Remind me what this has to do with independent women?
Oh right, we got uppity and ruined the US for all you old white guys with our votes and unreasonable demands. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 1/1/2009 7:56:11 PM | Would it be inappropriate to suggest that Huntin might want to change his religious beliefs to more align with some of those gun-toting, radical fanatics running around in the middle east? After all, other than his belief in Jesus as his savior, it would seem that all of his other firmly held beliefs would fit right in with the Taliban or some of the other extremists of the world!
Just goes to show you that a fanatic in any religion is still a dangerous thing!
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| Independent Women
Posted: 1/1/2009 8:00:28 PM | I would much rather have an independent woman who doesn't need me, than a needy insecure dependent woman. I've done the latter, it's not fun. The best relationships occur when neither of you needs the other, yet you voluntarily choose to share parts of your lives together. And yes, that means she may well leave you. And that's the only way to go, if you're in a relationship and you would do anything to keep the other person, you are doomed. You have no boundaries, no self respect and you are too dependent on someone else for your own happiness.
Like I said, I've been there, and it ain't fun. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 1/2/2009 9:38:07 PM | So well said, gnarfle!
Isn't it so much better to be in a relationship with someone who is there because they want to be there with their whole being, rather than there because they are afraid to be on their own! | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 1/17/2009 11:15:34 AM | I met a guy the other day that told me that he had a wife who was so independent that she would just tell him she was going to do what she wanted, and if he didn't like it he could, " Go jump in the lake."
I'm thinking, you have to be kidding. What happened to love and unselfishness in the relationship?
There is a long way between having a woman like the one mentioned above and the one Gnarly mentioned who is so needy she is clingy and incapable of getting along without him to pull her.
A woman who is an Independent thinker, who is flexible and enjoys good discussions can be wonderful.
But independent in the sense of strong-willed, argumentative, women's libber, liberal, basic men-hater (though she still wants what she can get from men) definitely is not what I want. | |
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custis
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Joined: 3/16/2005
Msg: 119 | |
| Independent Women
Posted: 1/23/2009 7:23:24 AM | | Independant women are the only kind I like. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 1/23/2009 9:32:41 AM | Weird my post didn't stick last time.. hmmm..
Independence doesn't make you a mean b*tch. That's a personal trait that some people seem to have but it's not a prerequisite to being independent.
The said dude mentioned above just happens to have the kind that make the rest of us look bad. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 2/27/2009 11:38:52 AM | Some women that seem very independent in relationship to their men, are tied to their mothers like someone forgot to cut the umbilical cord. The woman is married to her mother, and no-one else.
Believe me, I've been there ,done that. When the mother makes herself your enemy, and has huge influence within her family, you are in for hell. The problem is, at least two people never grew up: your wife and her mother. But they will never see it or acknowledge it. You are just the pseudo-husband and not blood, so you are out in the cold. Oh, it may take a while in some cases, but you will definitely end up with the shaft. Blood will win out. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 2/28/2009 10:54:49 AM | | I don't think that's what that means. In all likelihood, it means "I've taken care of myself all my life and have my own home and I'm not looking for a man because I need someone to take care of me." I'm sure there are a lot of women who are looking for a sugar daddy, but many of us are just looking for a life's companion. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 2/28/2009 1:10:26 PM |
Some women that seem very independent in relationship to their men, are tied to their mothers like someone forgot to cut the umbilical cord. The woman is married to her mother, and no-one else.
Believe me, I've been there ,done that. When the mother makes herself your enemy, and has huge influence within her family, you are in for hell. The problem is, at least two people never grew up: your wife and her mother. But they will never see it or acknowledge it. You are just the pseudo-husband and not blood, so you are out in the cold. Oh, it may take a while in some cases, but you will definitely end up with the shaft. Blood will win out.
Well, Huntin' it seems to me that you didn't do a really smash up job of getting to know your wife before you married her. But - whether you want to believe it or not, not all women - independent or otherwise - are like your ex!
First, I would think that the first step toward true 'independence' would include becoming independent from your parents. First you grow up and learn how to support yourself, learn what your own personal belief system is, what values you personally hold dear - separate from what your parents believe. Once you have done this, and are an independent 'adult' you can then become part of a couple!
Unfortunately, many people, both men and women, fail to make this transition. They go from being a child dependent upon their parent, to a spouse! Then when the going gets rough, which life almost certainly will, they find themselves bending to whichever person they find to be the most controlling and/or compelling!
Too bad your wife could not separate herself from her mother! But perhaps she felt that her mother cherished her more as a daughter than you did as a wife? Hmmmm? | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 2/28/2009 4:01:20 PM | Yeah, you have a point on her mother cherishing her part.
For example, She commonly introduced my wife to others (though before I married her and not in my presence): "This is my oldest daughter... her name... She was always the smartest of all my children, but she never did anything with it.
And she disregarded every boundary my wife ever tried to set. And she stole money from her granddaughter, my step daughter.
She was 45 when we got married, too. If you haven't cut the cord by then, only death will do it. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 3/2/2009 8:30:47 PM | Holla Sistah plebayo! Preach on! :D
I use the word "independent." I don't want to NEED a man in my life, I want to WANT him in my life. I want us to be together because of mutual WANT.
If I don't "need" him, it doesn't mean I'm going to get rid of him. A man, or a person for that matter, isn't a RESOURCE and not disposable. I want my partner to be my companion, my partner, my equal in all things, to appreciate all that I have to offer and make up for those areas in which I lack.
I believe partners in marriage should be there for each other through thick and thin, and their bond grow tighter when one of them is incapacitated and becomes temporarily "useless." I think that your mutual Want should make you Need each other.
But yeah- independent. I can take care of my own self. I'm not a gold-digger, I'm not a user, and I expect the same from whomever I date. | |
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