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| Independent Women
Posted: 3/12/2009 12:45:09 PM | | This post is starting to scare me, and make me think I should leave Oregon and move back to NY and the 21st century. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 5/5/2009 8:22:53 PM | Those of you women who say in your profile that you are independent, what do you mean?
If you are independent in the sense of being a liberated feminist, than this guy's not interested.
But independent as in not always needy, but self-sufficient while on your own, that's different.
I always thought INTERDEPENDENT was the ideal situation in a relationship.
Independence, to me, speaks of not needing one another. Shoot, God created us to need our mate. We can see that all throughout the Bible.
This modern independence in regard to one's spouse or mate, is one of the things that I believe can destroy a relationship if it is overdone.
What do the rest of you think?
I know that we are all heavily influenced by the last forty years of liberated media. But it is okay to need someone once you are in an intimate relationship with them. And it certainly doesn't make you less strong by admitting that.
I can hear certain liberated feminists now. | |
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wehold
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Joined: 8/7/2009
Msg: 130 | |
| Independent Women
Posted: 8/27/2009 6:34:21 PM | | What happened to lively, heated threads like this one. I get the impression that all the controversial people who use to post on this thread and others are gone. Well? | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/27/2009 7:59:48 PM |
Those of you women who say in your profile that you are independent, what do you mean? If you are independent in the sense of being a liberated feminist, than this guy's not interested. But independent as in not always needy, but self-sufficient while on your own, that's different.
I can only speak for myself on this one (and I never thought that I would agree with 'wildoutdoorguy' on anything), but when I talk about being "independent" what I am hoping to let the guys on this site know is that I am not looking for a man to provide my financial support (I have a good job that I love); nor am I looking for someone to raise my children (they are raised and on their own); nor am I looking for someone who will come in and repair my car, fix my sink, or lay new flooring (although if you lived in the same abode as I did - and were the handy andy type I would certainly welcome your assistance). In short, I am not here looking for a caretaker, but a caring partner.
I always thought INTERDEPENDENT was the ideal situation in a relationship.
I think that INTERDEPENDENT is a state that people work toward, rather than what you look for in a relationship at the outset. My mother and I can easily work together in the same kitchen to get a family dinner on the table because we have doing it for my entire life. We easily see what the other needs, and also readily realize when our 'help' would be more hindrance rather than assistance. I have tried many times working with other women while trying to get a meal on the table for a gathering of 50 - 60 people, and find the experience terribly frustrating! I think that INTERDEPENDENCE in a relationship is much the same - you develop the ability to read each other and know when your assistance will be help or hindrance!
Independence, to me, speaks of not needing one another. Shoot, God created us to need our mate. We can see that all throughout the Bible.
I would point you back to Proverbs on this one! God's description of the perfect wife in Proverbs is neither weak or needy. She is confident, self-sufficient, and worth her weight in gold! She bargains in the market, is a shrewd business person, and handles her families fortunes wisely and well. This is not a woman who is lacking is her independence. Rather she is a woman who knows her worth, and also knows her husband values and trusts her judgement! Independence does not mean you don't need anyone else, it means that you can shoulder your share of the load and stand strong with anyone that chooses to hitch their wagon to the same harness.
This modern independence in regard to one's spouse or mate, is one of the things that I believe can destroy a relationship if it is overdone. What do the rest of you think?
Wild, I have to tell you that if you think women of 50 or 100 years ago were not independent, I would hate to meet your grandmother! My grandmother helped raise her husbands younger brothers (whose mother had died when they were very young) and then raised 10 children while her husband was out on the range! She was often on her own for days and weeks at a time - and I guarantee you that she made many decisions without consulting her husband! There wasn't a cell phone, telephone, or communication device to be had! She trusted him to do his job 'independently' and he trusted her just the same!
I know that we are all heavily influenced by the last forty years of liberated media. But it is okay to need someone once you are in an intimate relationship with them. And it certainly doesn't make you less strong by admitting that.
We are all heavily influenced by the last forty years of liberated media, but it seems to me that by the stance you take, in your self-righteous religious fervor, completely denigrate the women who stood shoulder to shoulder with their men as they rolled across this country and homesteaded the western US. These women didn't arrive to comfortable farmhouses with running water and indoor plumbing.
I can hear certain liberated feminists now.
Sorry, but someone restarted this thread and wondered where all the interesting, heated comments had gone! So - I just couldn't resist!
Yes - I am independent - and proud of it! If there is a man out there that is lucky enough to have me fall in love with him, he will find a woman that won't expect him to paddle his canoe alone, but can expect me to contribute to our lives, and our love! And - I will expect no less of him than I am willing to give! So - all you 'independent' men, please drop me a line! (Those of you looking for a free ride, please move along!) | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/27/2009 8:10:27 PM | women who stood shoulder to shoulder with their men as they rolled across this country and homesteaded the western US. These women didn't arrive to comfortable farmhouses with running water and indoor plumbing.
I'm not sure that caliber of woman exists anymore. At middle age, they seem to be focused on fine dining, travel, and latte's. I think they would gladly take on the world with their man...as long as it's a pleasant experience :) | |
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wehold
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Joined: 8/7/2009
Msg: 133 | |
| Independent Women
Posted: 8/27/2009 11:06:11 PM | | I think you said a truth kowboi. In fact, many of these modern liberated women would rather stand toe to toe (as in argue, fight, and wear the pants) with their men. It makes for a great relationship. That is it does if hell on earth is what you're looking for. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/28/2009 5:05:22 PM | Well said, kbodley. I can't think of much more to add, except to say that women like that do exist. kbodley is an example of one and so am I. I was fortunate to be a true partner in a loving marriage. It had its ups and downs yet we were there for one another, both shouldering our share. I didn't have fine dining, and I can't think of too many arguments. I was priveledged to hold my partner up as best I could as he fought cancer. No pretty picture there.
If I am fortunate to find another mate, chances are I will outlive him too, but yet I'm here ready to do it all again. Gladly. Am I doing fine alone? Sure. But having a loving partner at my side would enhance my currently happy life. I would be doubly blessed.
And for you disbelievers that think we only want to be wined and dined, I can only say your filter must be broken if that is the only type of women you are finding out there. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/28/2009 5:56:11 PM | I think if we took a cross-section of all the gals on fish in the age group of 40-55, you would be outside the bell-curve.
I guess that makes you girls kinda unique :) | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/29/2009 9:05:34 AM |
I'm not sure that caliber of woman exists anymore. At middle age, they seem to be focused on fine dining, travel, and latte's. I think they would gladly take on the world with their man...as long as it's a pleasant experience :)
Hmmm? Well, if you are conversing with women who spend a great deal of time in the beauty salon, spa, and travel agent, this could be an accurate statement. However, if you look at profiles and see real women who have worked, raised their children, made homes and careers, and navigate well within the modern world, you might find the same caliber of woman.
I just returned from a 'vacation' where I took five elderly (age 76 to 96) relatives on a wonderful tour of Eastern Oregon and Idaho, with a destination of a vacation home in Western Montana. Upon arrival I spent four days cooking and caring for a gathering of 35 relatives - who all gathered to honor my mother's 8 surviving brothers and sisters (ranging in age from 76 to 100 years of age). I shopped, cooked, did dishes, and made sure that all were provided with the opportunity to gather and reconnect with their families! This was a precious opportunity for those of us who were able to be there.
Was I tired at the end of the 10 days? Absolutely! Would I have loved to have another week that I could have spent sitting at a nice resort and being pampered and spoiled? Sure! But - that is not the life that I lead - nor would I have traded the vacation I had for any other!
The question I have is this? Are there any POF guys out there who would have taken just as much joy as I did in sharing the history and beauty of the "Journey Through Time" National Scenic Byway with these elderly relatives? Are there guys out there who would have sat at a picnic table in the national forests, sharing a homemade cookie and a sandwich, and yes loading and unloading the picnic basket and cooler by yourself because your traveling companions are no longer really capable of helping - no matter how much they would like to? Are there POF guys who would get to their destination and really enjoy sitting on a deck in the Flathead National Forest listening to a 100 year old uncle share stories about his trip as a small boy across the country in a Model T from Gig Harbor, Washington to the ranch in the Dakotas?
You guys all complain because you only find women on POF who want to be treated to fine dining, travel, and pampering. Perhaps you need to take a glance in the mirror and ask yourself what kind of women you are contacting. If you fish for tropical beauties, don't complain when that is exactly what you catch! | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/29/2009 12:34:32 PM | Hehe...are you saying the only beauties are tropical? What happened to the "salt of the earth" beauties :)
Is asking for a Playboy model who can muck stalls too much to ask...ok I'm cracking myself up now...lol. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/29/2009 7:06:52 PM | History backs you up, sir. Women didn't work outside the home . . . That is unless you count breaking their backs 'outside' working with men on the crops and tending to farm animals, and then working their asses off IN their homes to preserve foods they'd grown, make clothing and then keep it clean without a washing machine or dryer, create baked goods from scratch in wood-fueled stoves even in the midwest in the heat of summer, and so much more. While others, in the city, worked under slave labor conditions and met with horrible accidents, or died in manufacturing company fires.
Yup, there was plenty back then for women to be "happy" about , IF one enjoyed the rare privilege of being among the upper class wealthy.
But this really has nothing to do with the word 'independent'. According to men I've talked with, and known, they don't much like the word 'independent' as it relates to women. And yet they make it clear that they don't want women who are DEpendent, because that is going to cost them. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/29/2009 7:55:43 PM | I don't think anyone is advocating that kind of existence for women. However, it appears there was the character to chose a man, fight the fight, and carve out a life together. The perception of the current mindset seems to be that carving out a existence consists of acquiring a house in the "right" neighborhood, driving an appropriate vehicle, and getting proper service at a restaurant. This seems to describe a life without adversity...which is probably as realistic as believing all women are size 6, just like on TV.
To qualify my statements, you have to understand, I am a man who went through 3 marriages in suburbia chasing the cooperate dream. My mid-life crisis consisted of me throwing in the towel, and deciding enough was enough. I moved to a small town and went back to the basics...so far a vision I have not been able to sell to a companion. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/29/2009 7:59:34 PM | "I'm not sure that caliber of woman exists anymore. At middle age, they seem to be focused on fine dining, travel, and latte's. I think they would gladly take on the world with their man...as long as it's a pleasant experience :) "
Wowie zowie. My ex husband and I started and ran a business together. At 'middle age' I got tired of his abuse and extreme control (our friends both male and female wondered what took me so long) and I came away with nothing so far -- living in an inexpensive apartment and living paycheck to paycheck on 9.50 per hour . . . while he lives on our property and has control of everything we ever earned together. I have been on my own now for nearly three years, and I thought that finally perhaps I'd meet someone who would treat me with an ounce of respect and that I may get to experience actual romance for the first time in my life. But at middle age men expect a woman to have money. I have yet to meet a man who will even pay for dinner at a table with a tablecloth, much less a candle. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/29/2009 8:09:01 PM | I have old fashioned values, I hold the door open, and I pay...always. I don't expect a women to have money, I do expect that she would believe in me and that together we could accomplish anything.
I can't speak for all men...and I expect you have more "first hand" knowledge then I do :) | |
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wehold
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Joined: 8/7/2009
Msg: 142 | |
| Independent Women
Posted: 8/29/2009 11:10:07 PM | | Bodley sure likes to toot her own horn. You ought to get together with her cowboy. She sounds like quite a woman. I'm referring to her last post. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/30/2009 1:56:35 PM | | Don't go pickin' on kbodley now...I think she's a grand ole lady :) | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/30/2009 6:51:02 PM | Thanks Kowboi, at least I think so? I'm not really sure about the 'ole lady' crack, but I'll gladly accept the "grand" compliment!
As for wehold's comments, I wasn't intending to toot my own horn, but rather to point out that not all POF women are looking for fine dining and fancy vacations! I am fairly certain that many of my fellow female POFers are just as down to earth, hard working, and yes independent! But - that doesn't mean we aren't interested in a partner - but we're probably spending more time maintaining our careers, our homes, our families, and our communities than we are looking for a sugar daddy to pay our way to the nearest spa vacation!
Spend some time with one of two of us and you may find that we are 'women to ride the river with!' (Touche` Kowboi!) | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 8/30/2009 10:44:16 PM | Independant is a word. A word with many possible meaning in the context. The fact is that most people (97% "American marriage statistics, 2008) get married at some point in their life. It is simple human nature for us to seek a companion so share our lives with. Which is why a majority of us are on this site.
The origional author of this post said that most marriages are ended by women, which is true, although he said 75% or somthing, in reality its more like 82% in America. However in most cases its not they they are dependant and just leave their man, I think its more of the same complex that exists in our dating society. Women are by nature attracted to the alpha male, which in todays world turns out to be an (Ass-hole). Men are benefited more by a marriage than a women is. In fact married men live LONGER then unmarried men, yet it is the OPPOSITE for women. Divorce and its ever increasing rate is a product of the times. Marriage is looked at as much less permenent then it was 100 years ago. Today people CAN and WILL find somebody better and CAN start their life over again, where-as 100 Years ago it was unheard of to start over at age 35 Ect.
In my oppinion marriage is just like the dating world. Women are attracted to the Ass-holes of the world, marry them and eventually divorce them, then they come back a few years later and fine a nice guy, Like me.. haha.. and Marry him, and dont get divorced again.. Which explains why STATISTICALLY women get one divorce in their live and men who get one usually have SEVERAL... hence the jerks find more women to get with and get divorced all over again..
Questions? | |
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67pdx
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Joined: 4/9/2009
Msg: 146 | |
| Independent Women
Posted: 10/11/2009 6:41:12 PM | I don't agree with everything the guy who started this said. BUT women do get bored, then you're out on your ass. Or worse. I think way too often these days its the woman having what used to known as a midlife crisis. As a guy who invested the best years of my life into something my "partner" and "confidant" was all too willing to cast to the wind, I might be a bit sensitive to the women are all angels/ men are just dogs sentiment. I think what has him confused is that some women write "independent" when really they mean selfish and shallow.
Just one man's humble opinion | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:55:43 PM | "Independant Woman"...now there is highly a subjective term if I ever heard one! I have no problem with an independant person. In fact, I find it an attractive quality as it pertains to my definition of the term...IE: has her own friends, makes her own money, pays her own bills, and can take care of herself. Those are all wonderfull qualities that make it much easier to concentrate on the important aspects of a good relationship.
I dont find it attractive when a woman that claims to be an "Independant woman" IE: Finds it neccessary to do EVERYTHING herself, will not accept any help with ANYTHING, alienates you by insisting that your desire to help her is an attempt to control her when in reality it is simply you trying to be a good partner and be supportive.
I think that unfortunately, the "independant woman" is sometimes taken to unhealthy extremes. It is possible to be equal to your partner without being overbearingly independant, and simply having an equal relationship in which you both feel open to helping eachother without fear of causing offense for that kindness. | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 10/24/2009 9:26:59 PM | What a coincidence that when I finally get a chance to log back on this thread still has a life! I thought I would share with you a conversation I had with one of my brothers today, because I think it speaks to this topic!
Two months ago a purchase a house that needed quite a bit of work, but I got it at an excellent price which made it financially a really good deal. For the past two months I have spent nearly every moment I am not in the office painting, hanging wallpaper, laying new flooring, and setting tile. I finished putting up new lighting, hanging blinds and draperies. and installing chair railing in the living room and dining room today. I was really proud of how well everything turned out and had to call someone to crow a little bit! I called my older brother and in the course of our conversation he made the comment that, "this is why you will never find a man, because you can do all of this on your own." He went on to explain that his wife never touches anything except to hold the ladder and he likes it that way!
So guys, the question becomes do you appreciate women who are not sitting around waiting to marry a home handyman, or do you feel threatened by women who just figure out how to do it themselves - not because they prefer it, but simply because there is no one else there to do the work - and the choice would be to pass up the opportunity??? | |
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| Independent Women
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:36:20 AM | So is that what is detering guys from messaging me on here? Funny!
When I say I am independant I am just trying to say that I have a full time job, my own place and I pay my own bills, I don't have any baggage or anything holding me down, I am not needy & I do not need someone, but rather would like someone (an equal). I don't rely on men to pay my bills and support me. But if you want to awesome! I will quit my job and live off of your income...well maybe not, because I love my job. There are too many not just girls but guys to that use people because they are too lazy to get a job and support themselves and I am not one of them nor do I want one. So those are my thoughts on the subject. | |
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