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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/25/2008 1:49:07 PM | YOu know, I am easy to talk to. I have had guys open up to me, trust me with their past.
I'll tell ya...it's usually easy to tell when someone is entrusting me with something big. This cues me to be extra sensitive and compassionate - and nonjudgemental, regardless of what I"m thinking inside.
If I were cyndi, NO MATTER WHAT, my reaction as a friend or almost girlfriend to tom would have been to project acceptance and compassion. I'd probably say "Oh I'm so sorry you had to go thru that". And "Thank you for trusting me with that information". And then probably give him a big hug.
Cyndi did not. And has not. This tells me that even if TOm contacts her, she is unlikely to be able to provide the kind of support he would need for him to continue the relationship - esp if it were to become sexual.
I'd say let her go, buddy...and fish elsewhere.
As far as whether to open up about that in the future? I don't know. That's a case by case basis, i guess.
And before having sex? Again, i dont' know.
A good friend of mine's husband was sexually abused by his mother. My friend had actually married him before she found out about it. Or else it was right before the wedding but after a few years of dating. I have no memory- can't remember exactly. But the point is that they most def had been together sexually before she found out. So at least for him, no, he didn't feel the need to tell her until he was ready to.
BUT...the difference is that he was not unlike a male whore...she wasn't his first, maybe his 100th partner.
My very limited experience w/victims of rape and incest is that it seems many gravitate to the extremes - too much sex or not comfortable w/sex. And when I say very limited, I mean VERY limited. Anyway...I don't know much about it except that it does leave bad bad scars.
I would have no idea if tom should tell potential partners before having sex or not.
I think that if I were tom, I would try to do some reading on the subject or maybe talk to other victims and find out how they handled it. Sure the therapist is right in that one solution doesn't fit all. BUT...personally I'd feel better prepared to handle the situation if I knew how others had handled it and how it went. Of course, that's me. I hate NEW situations and hate going into things unprepared.
I do think that chasing Cyndi isn't the way to go. Sorry about her, Tom...I'm sorry she let you down and also very sorry for the scars ol' mom left. Mental health may be a reason but it's not an excuse and does not excuse the scars that were left.
Kaylie | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/25/2008 2:48:38 PM | | It is a lot to digest, but is Cyndi really worth it if she can't come to terms with it? She may need time to think, but if two weeks have passed and Tom has still not heard from her then it's time he called her. Maybe she's waiting for him to call? Maybe not. I wouldn't have left the situation like Cyndi. There are a few things Cyndi might be wondering. Is he telling the truth? It's always possible that he's a bit odd and making it up. If he's telling the truth, then he should explain that to her and reassure her that it happened in the past but he's not a fantasist. She may also be wondering what he expects of her? Perhaps he should tell her he expects love and understanding. She may think he needs more than that. It depends how much detail Tom went into and why. Maybe he should have introduced the topic gradually and explained more as he found she could cope. I think Tom should call her and see what the reaction is. She may not know what to say, but be reassured by his call. It's very difficult for Tom because it's not his fault that this has happened to him. It's even harder as he has to explain it to girlfriends too. I think he's probably doing the very best he can and he shouldn't blame himself if a girl can't cope. He will find one who loves him and who will support him when he reveals his traumatic childhood. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/25/2008 4:31:34 PM | Yes, Tom did go into too much detail initially. It would have sufficed to say that his mother has severe emotional issues that she isn't willing to deal with, and therefore, it prevents them from having a close relationship. No other details need to be forthcoming at this point. They barely know one another. As Tom and Cyndi get to know one another, Tom can gradually expand on the situation
I very much agree with this, it was too early and shouldn't have been done all at once, it put Cindy in a difficult spot and its possible she panicked and didn't feel she could handle the responsibility of being in a position to cause further pain to someone who was likely to be emotionally frail. Once she'd reacted so badly, maybe she felt she was likely just to make it worse by getting back in touch.
However, if I were Cindy, even if I felt I couldn't consider being in a relationship with Tom I couldn't be so cold as to just turn my back and walk away never to be seen again. I must like him judging by how things had gone so far so I'd probably want to at least try to be a friend if Tom wanted that.
Tom should probably consider Cindy's reaction is for the best as she obviously isn't a strong enough person to cope and therefore probably just not good enough for him.
As Tom is sexually inexperienced, its likely he wont be dating girls who think of sex lightly, so I think probably he should tell them first. It may even help him to feel comfortable with them too.
I'm glad he sees a therapist, perhaps if a future girlfriend gets close enough for him to reveal some of this problem, Tom could eventually take her with him to see the therapist. It would be a 'safe' environment for them both when the fine detail of the problem were shared IF they both felt that was necessary(good idea to give her the option not to know too much, or at least at her own pace), and also perhaps re assure her that there were no implications about Tom's potential behaviour towards children. Few people know much about families that suffer from abuse, but most are familiar with the theory that many abused children grow up to become abusers, and that might be part of what scared off Cindy. Tom sounds pretty stable though and I doubt this should be a concern so future GFs could be re assured without them feeling the need to raise such an awful question.
If Tom is a friend of yours, perhaps you could reassure him that most people would not assume bad things about him, and may well see him as a strong and well balanced man for the way he seems to be handling this. I for one would imagine he has to have gained a lot of self awareness, maturity, humility and other very admirable qualities to get where he is emotionally from such a disadvantaged starting point in to adult hood. He may well be the kind of bloke I'd feel honoured to know and have in my life. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/25/2008 4:40:44 PM | It's a heavy load to put on someone. Some people can't handle situations like this. Being insensitive has nothing to do with it. It's a lot to take in, and not every one is equipped for it. Either they're totally freaked out by it...or they've experienced some abuse of their own and hearing others stories dredges up old feelings.
As someone who has experienced sexual abuse myself, I can say that I can commeserate with anyone else who had dealt with such issues. But I have a friend who I found out was abused, who never told me, even knowing I'd been abused. You would think they'd want to share, but she'd rather keep up pretenses instead. I understand it since shame is something all survivors feel at one time or another.
I talk freely about my issues and abuse...and some people can't handle it. They would rather stick their head in the sand and not hear about it. And many people assume that if you have this in your past, then you have baggage that is bad news. But many of us have worked through our baggage, dealt with it, and moved on from it. It is a part of our past, but we don't let it define who we are. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:55:10 PM |
If Tom is a friend of yours, perhaps you could reassure him that most people would not assume bad things about him, and may well see him as a strong and well balanced man for the way he seems to be handling this. I for one would imagine he has to have gained a lot of self awareness, maturity, humility and other very admirable qualities to get where he is emotionally from such a disadvantaged starting point in to adult hood. He may well be the kind of bloke I'd feel honoured to know and have in my life.
While this is true, Tom picked up a lot of bad qualities too. A lack of any self-worth, self-loathing, and the feeling of being a dirty freak for having a penis.
All of which though, Tom has really gotten through. Tom feels a lot better about himself. Tom may still be depressed, but I think he's getting through it all and has broken a lot of obscured views of himself.
As to raiderfan... I think Tom believes so too. But Tom is still young, and the memories seem like only yesterday, as does the conflict of emotions. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/26/2008 2:32:15 PM | Therapy is a wonderful thing. I am sure that Tom will be seeing his therapist for a long time. Smart move! Tom can't do everything on his own... I think he realizes this.
As for Cyndi... it is a lot to take in. For Cyndi it was too early to tell her. Everyone is different so I think Tom has to decide when is the right time for him. He is in control of his feelings not anyone else's.
Tom should give her a call but be prepared for what ever the out come. And remember Cyndi might not be able to handle the situation but another lady will.
We all have our hurdles in life... Tom be a survivor not a victim.
~Charmed~ | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 6:31:41 AM |
Therapy is a wonderful thing. I am sure that Tom will be seeing his therapist for a long time. Smart move! Tom can't do everything on his own... I think he realizes this.
As for Cyndi... it is a lot to take in. For Cyndi it was too early to tell her. Everyone is different so I think Tom has to decide when is the right time for him. He is in control of his feelings not anyone else's.
Tom should give her a call but be prepared for what ever the out come. And remember Cyndi might not be able to handle the situation but another lady will.
We all have our hurdles in life... Tom be a survivor not a victim.
~Charmed~
Yeah, I think you're right.
Update: Tom calls Cyndi just to find out what's happening, after a few rings, it goes to voice-mail. Tom decides not to even leave a message, and hangs up/deletes her contact. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 6:45:17 AM | OP: Would you have left the situation like Cyndi?
Should Tom not have gone into so much detail?
Should Tom just cut his losses, and move Cyndi's Contact on his cell to the trash can? Or should he call her up, just once, to see what's up?"
I believe that Cyndi really pushed Tom on revealing traumatizing and personal information. When he felt comfortable discussing, he would have. She probably could not understand the situation, as most would not. I would try to call her one time after allowing some time (digest the information revealed). If she is not receptive, then let it go.
While I would not understand how a Mother could abuse their child as such, it happens more often than not. I am blessed to have a Mom that is loving and a wonderful role model. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 6:59:45 AM |
While I would not understand how a Mother could abuse their child as such, it happens more often than not. I am blessed to have a Mom that is loving and a wonderful role model.
Tom's mother had psychological issues. Say that Tom's mother was bi-polar, which in of itself, isn't a bad thing if you're medicated properly. Say that Tom's mother is allergic to Lithium - the primary medication for Bi-Polar (at the time). So Tom's mother had to take a lot of seconday medications that had adverse side-effects, such as slowing her metabolism to a crawl, etc.
Well, Tom's mother was obviously depressed, and when she attempted suicide, she did so by swallowing all her pills at once. say that Tom remembers her babbling incoherently on the floor.
Tom's parents were divorced shortly thereafter, and it became obvious that Tom's mother must have gone through some adverse psychological side-effects from the overdose. It was also obvious that Tom's Mother just stopped taking her medication completely.
Tom's mother went crazy, and to keep primary custody, claimed in divorce court my father beat her on a daily basis (which wasn't true), in counter-argument to my father making a point that she was psychologically unstable. The courts believed Tom's mother. It took two years for Tom to gather the courage to tell social workers what was going on in the home.
even then, he was so embaressed, he only told them the basic stuff. Tom was in seventh grade at the time, and nobody really knew the extent of the abuse. Tom is only thankful today that his brother and sister did not suffer the way he did. Tom's the oldest child. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 7:12:44 AM | | His mother may have a mental illness that makes it difficult for Tom to have a good relationship. Some people with manic-depression and other mood-altering behaviors... tend to burn a lot of bridges, and they essentially make their own children crazy. So, do you try to get to know Tom any further? Did his mother make him crazy? Now she wants to be forgiven? Who knows? | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 7:18:21 AM | OP: "Tom's mother had psychological issues. Say that Tom's mother was bi-polar, which in of itself, isn't a bad thing if you're medicated properly. Say that Tom's mother is allergic to Lithium - the primary medication for Bi-Polar (at the time). So Tom's mother had to take a lot of seconday medications that had adverse side-effects, such as slowing her metabolism to a crawl, etc.
Well, Tom's mother was obviously depressed, and when she attempted suicide, she did so by swallowing all her pills at once. say that Tom remembers her babbling incoherently on the floor.
Tom's parents were divorced shortly thereafter, and it became obvious that Tom's mother must have gone through some adverse psychological side-effects from the overdose. It was also obvious that Tom's Mother just stopped taking her medication completely.
Tom's mother went crazy, and to keep primary custody, claimed in divorce court my father beat her on a daily basis (which wasn't true), in counter-argument to my father making a point that she was psychologically unstable. The courts believed Tom's mother. It took two years for Tom to gather the courage to tell social workers what was going on in the home.
even then, he was so embaressed, he only told them the basic stuff. Tom was in seventh grade at the time, and nobody really knew the extent of the abuse. Tom is only thankful today that his brother and sister did not suffer the way he did. Tom's the oldest child."
Sad situation. One that I cannot relate to, but it is very much present in our society. One trigger leads to many others...........I can only wish that with time all parties can overcome all the suffering and lead "normal" lives. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 7:22:35 AM | Tom has opted in to therapy and sounds like he is not blinkering himself to any of the risks, in fact he's almost worrying about them too much. I think its unlikely that he is the sort of person who will allow his Mum's history become his future.
If we were getting on well so far, I would want to talk about things and see how it had affected his attitudes in the present, I would even like some of the therapy to be joint sessions if we were serious enough for this to be in the open, but I wouldn't disapear without giving us a chance without some evidence of problems.
I WOULD have issues about much involvement with his mother, I'd find this very difficult on so many levels. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 7:34:28 AM | Tom does not have to reveal those things from his past that he is now(and has been)healing from. He does not have to answer every inquiry into his personal life.....and he can still feel like he is a decent person. No one has to justify what they say and do. :)
She sounds like a young girl......sometimes in society, there is TOO much asking WHY...and probing....sometimes people are not ready or willing to open up....it is a gradual process.
Tom is healing....and that is enough for now.... | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 7:48:50 AM |
His mother may have a mental illness that makes it difficult for Tom to have a good relationship. Some people with manic-depression and other mood-altering behaviors... tend to burn a lot of bridges, and they essentially make their own children crazy. So, do you try to get to know Tom any further? Did his mother make him crazy? Now she wants to be forgiven? Who knows?
I really don't think that Tom's mother even remembers or even realizes what she did back then. Tom's mother is a lot better than she was, but her mind has become so dillusional, I doubt his mom can even tell the difference between fantasy and reality anymore. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 7:53:01 AM |
While this is true, Tom picked up a lot of bad qualities too. A lack of any self-worth, self-loathing, and the feeling of being a dirty freak for having a penis.
I don't know that this will help, but to sharemy friend's husband's experience... Husband was a bit scared of having kids because he feared repeating the abuse. He worked thru it in therapy though and his wife was very supportive and encouraging. Also, he was pretty religious and I think his relationship with his God helped him to realize that he was worth loving and was a good person...and not at fault.
I quoted you above, because the feeling of being a dirty freak? Well, husband's sister was also abused by mom. Yes, both of them. When sister grew up, she was a lesbian. Then she went further and became I guess a transgender or transexual? She now is a HE. He takes hormones to look male - grows facial hair, binds breasts, etc. Still has girl parts though. Legally, she is a He. This past summer, He got married to a female.
I am sure and I'm sure he is too, that much of his gender issue and confusion was in response to feeling "dirty" being female after his mom abused him.
The lasting effects of abuse esp by a parent are just not to ever be underestimated.
BUT Tom is getting help. Tom is proceeding carefully and cautiously. And I believe that Tom is a survivor. And whatever route Tom takes to deal w/his issues will be fine. C is MUCH happier now that she is G, a male. I've met him and was pretty impressed by how much more relaxed he is. Finally comfortable in his own skin. And my friend's husband, by his 40's, also had found peace with who he was. He was still in therapy and had some psych probs of his own (probably inherited), but for the most part was able to live a very happy life.
I think that the outlook is good for Tom...but def stay in therapy. And just so you know, the dirty freak is most definitely MOM. I don't care what meds she was on or suicidal or not...what she did was so incredibly WRONG there is never a right to do that to a child. TOM is not a dirty freak for having a penis. As my friend experienced - his mom did it to both him and sister. TOM was a child who was taken advantage of by someone who was supposed to be protecting him, not hurting him. TOM was NOT at fault.
And I just want to add...Tom, don't feel like you have to rush into dating or sex or losing your virginity. There is no one right way to do things. If you wait 10 more years before having sex, that's ok. Don't do it just to get it over with. Wait until you can do it and feel good about yourself. You are a worthy person and you deserve to be happy. You deserve to be healed inside so that you can truly experience love and a relationship. On the other hand, if you want to have sex, that's ok too. You are a Man now and will become more of a man each year. You were a child then. Whatever you experienced before, that's NOT what goes on between 2 consenting adults who are of age, I can guarantee it. You are of age now, and sex is ok for you to do now with a girl your age.
I'm no therapist...I"m just offering up my opinions... {{hugs}} to Tom and anyone else who went thru that hell.
Kaylie | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 8:02:25 AM | | ^^ I think Tom knows he should not move too hasty, which brings back to the situation. Tom definately did move a little too fast in that slip of the tongue to Cyndi. He is still awkward like that. Tom definately doesn't feel like those things anymore, but I think that those issues still mess with Tom's head still. If that makes sense. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 9:09:07 AM | Tom definately doesn't feel like those things anymore, but I think that those issues still mess with Tom's head still. If that makes sense.
Everyone's path to recovery is different, but I am glad to hear Tom is in therapy. The harsh reality is that you never get over your issues. They never go away. There will never come a time when the abuse did not happen. When abuse happens to a child, it's occurring during the time they're rationalizing their identity. Therapy helps you learn how to build a strong house on a tricky foundation, but it can't undo damage. You just learn to cope and deal with your issues on a different level.
So of course the issues still mess with Tom's head. They always will. The trick is to learn where one does and does not have power over their situation. You do not have power over what happened, or power over the feelings that well up when those issues are triggered. You do have power over what you tell yourself when those moments happen and how you act when they occur. Understanding why the abuse happened is a natural step, but it's a dangerous one with a major pitfall. Understanding is a hop, skip and a jump away from justifying. The thing to be understood is that abuse has nothing to do with you. It would have happened no matter who you were. Abuse isn't personal.
In my eyes, he passively attacked himself by not enforcing his own boundaries. He put himself in emotional danger by not standing up for his right to tell people his story when HE is ready to. He doesn't have to do anything but die, the rest is up to him. How can anyone respect your boundaries when you don't even do it yourself? I'm sorry, but Tom did himself a great disservice by disclosing that information to someone who had bullied him into giving it. His issues likely run deeper than he even realizes, which is understandable considering the abuse. Therapy is fantastic, so I'm glad to hear he's on the right path. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 9:23:06 AM | With All Due Respect Time The Frargin' Hades Out.
OP, I'd bet there is not a one of us here qualified to deal with questions of incest and the reactions the revelation of it causes among our friends and family.
Women are like snowflakes, all different. You're looking for validation. You don't need that. Get qualified, professional consultation and as you should have deduced from one of the young ladies' posts two weeks of inaction tells you quite a bit.
I wish you great luck in life and love OP. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 9:30:19 AM | Time The Frargin' Hades Out
Double cabin,
I get the gist of what you mean by this, but it's phrase I've never heard before! (I'm from the UK).
Would you mind explaining it and it's origin if you know?
Is frargin' a word used over there a bit like over here we use friggin'? (Like a less harsh version of f**king) | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 9:48:48 AM | Wow, what a familiar hypothetical...
Been near this one before and didn't run away. Even though the relationship wasn't the greatest, it had moments that helped me figure out that I wasn't the only one that has a "past" that can't be changed, and not to judge to harshly others that haven't made it out as far as I had. Happily, we're still very good friends. Onto the situation at hand...
After explaining the situation to Cyndi, as she ASKED about it, it shows that her compassion levels aren't quite what Tom needs in his life. Yes, he may have let out more than he should have, initially. Once that cat was outta the bag, Cyndi's reaction says it all ...."she doesn't know if she could be with a guy who's had such a relationship with his mother". There are those that have empathy, and those that can't even fathom the horrific beginnings that some people are cursed with. So for Tom, it's probably a good thing that Cyndi's honest reaction was what it was. It saves him from more hurt down the road.
As for trying to contact Cyndi? I don't know. If it were me, I'd write it off as experience. If there was caring on her part, she would have called.
Sometimes, ya just gotta let a dog sleep.... | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 10:16:51 AM |
As for trying to contact Cyndi? I don't know. If it were me, I'd write it off as experience. If there was caring on her part, she would have called.
Even though I really feel for Tom, I disagree. From what Tom gathered, Cyndi had a normal, happy childhood and relationship with her parents. I think Cyndi just wasn't prepared... And as a few posters have pointed out. Cyndi *does* need to think about Cyndi. While it pains Tom to think about, especially in the manner she did so, it is a huge red flag. Cyndi might be scared Tom has issues, and Tom does to an extent. Cyndi could be scared Tom has grown into an abuser himself, which is quite common too.
Cyndi could also think that Tom might be sexually dysfunctional because of it. And nobody wants to be in a relationship with a screwed-up sex-life. Tom's really sad it didn't work out, he really liked Cyndi. She might not have handled the situation in the best way, but Tom never got the feeling Cyndi was a bad person during their time together. Cyndi got scared off more than anything, I think. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 11:12:37 AM | Yeah Sam, just like friggin' which is used here as well.
OP,
Two weeks? You're making all kinds of assumptions about Cyndi and if you're not Tom instead of odd vicarious speculation I'll suggest that good friends need to be told by good friends when they need PROFESSIONAL assistance. | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 11:17:23 AM | So are you and Tom somehow related since you said his mom claimed ''your'' father beat her on a daily basis???? Are you sure this is hypothetical???
I highly recommend therapy...and maybe find a therapy group...of abuse survivors...hearing other people's stories sometimes makes you feel like...''wow and I thought I had it bad...maybe it wasn't THAT bad." | |
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| Hypothetical Situation...
Posted: 8/27/2008 11:19:52 AM |
So are you and Tom somehow related since you said his mom claimed ''your'' father beat her on a daily basis???? Are you sure this is hypothetical???
I highly recommend therapy...and maybe find a therapy group...of abuse survivors...hearing other people's stories sometimes makes you feel like...''wow and I thought I had it bad...maybe it wasn't THAT bad."
That's a big kitty you have in your profile. I like kitties. Meow. | |
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