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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/27/2008 10:11:00 PM | ^^^ OP: "Incorrect. They ARE happy. Please do not speak about the level of happiness of people you do not know."
Melissa, how can you honestly sit here and say you KNOW them and that they are in fact happy? You had to go back and ask them more details about their relationship....seems to me, you are projecting happiness upon them so as to defend your profession. Regardless the fact you're not directly involved with this couple 'professionally', your 'position' is somewhat threatened in that you think you are providing a service with the goal being fulfillment, thus happiness, where in reality, you're actually the tool which masks their problem. Because of your own defensiveness, you ignore the question you and I both raised in terms of what could go wrong with this situation.....what if wifey's lover no longer wants to play? I would be interested in hearing your answer to your own question.
~ds~ | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/27/2008 10:20:00 PM | davidsauvignon wrote
Melissa, how can you honestly sit here and say you KNOW them and that they are in fact happy? You had to go back and ask them more details about their relationship....seems to me, you are projecting happiness upon them so as to defend your profession.
I can say what I said because I DO know them. I do recognize happiness in others. I do not know every little detail about their private life so that is why I had to go back and ask other questions.
How can you sit there and say they are not happy when you do not know them AT ALL. My saying they are happy is based on my personal experience of talking to them and seeing them. Your saying they are not happy is based on ....what?....your unwillingness to accept that others with differing lifestyle and views can be happy?
As for my profession, it does not need defending. It is real, it is everywhere, and it is the cornerstone of many relationships, regardless of your beliefs to the contrary.
davidsauvignon wrote
Because of your own defensiveness, you ignore the question....
and
I would be interested in hearing your answer to your own question.
If I knew the answer I would not have had to ask the question. | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/27/2008 10:20:09 PM | I've never had much luck getting solid with people who insist and expect that other people make sense to them in their own terms.
Huh?
Kink can be as utterly loving as an orderly, monogamous marriage can be deathly cold and soul killing. The inescapable fact of our humanity is that there is nothing that works for everyone. A further, troubling fact is that we don't come into our adulthood knowing for sure what does work for us. Many people fall back on the example and expectations of others, and never ask themselves, "why am I not happy? What would make me happy?" They just slog through day after month after year of doing what they were told and taking it out on the dog or the bartender or the kids.
You see that impulse - to obey and be good - in all of this bitter, hateful judgment of happy strangers. They can't be happy doing that, because I would never, ever do such a thing, so it can't be a good thing to do, because I do what I was told to do, and that wasn't mentioned.
I have a lot of sympathy for those who are stuck in joyless, vanilla lives, just as I'm glad for those whose vanilla lives are satisfying and joyful. I would never tell any of them that they are doing something wrong. I might suggest there are possibilities galore arrayed at their feet, and that no one will mind if they pick one up. I know those voices in their heads will argue with me, but at least there's an argument, and not a mere, dull drone.
Get yer play on, you phreaques!
Vulf  | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/28/2008 9:27:45 PM | ^^^ "Opinions based on bias and lack of information are invalid." (Greyfeld, you should add "to me" at the end of this statement)....... "So, if you don't want to take the time to get to know the truth (add "according to me" here)"......"then yes, your opinion doesn't matter (again, add "to me" here)"......"Lucky for the rest of us" (you should change "us" to "me" here).
For this is YOUR opinion....and you are speaking for yourself.
No, I shouldn't. Opinions created on bias and lack of information only spread intolerance and hatred. If you think otherwise, then you shouldn't be allowed to speak, because you're only furthering the problem, not helping to solve it.
That's pretty much exactly what we've been saying. But the thing is, they still aren't happy. They are thinking they're happy because of fulfillment they've achieved from others....not from from within the marriage and not from each other.
So basically, it's your job to tell people whether or not they are happy? You're really only proving my point.
Melissa, how can you honestly sit here and say you KNOW them and that they are in fact happy?
How can you honestly sit here and say you KNOW them and that they are in fact NOT happy?
The inability to prove something does not make it false. | |
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wolftx
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Joined: 5/29/2008
Msg: 155 | |
| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/28/2008 9:40:23 PM |
Opinions created on bias and lack of information only spread intolerance and hatred. If you think otherwise, then you shouldn't be allowed to speak
Wow, it must be pretty quiet in your part of the country then, if that's the environment you grew up in. 'Bias' is "a particular tendency or inclination, esp. one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question". If you have an opinion, then by definition you have a bias. Everytime a choice or an angle is possible and you pick one, you lean towards one more than all others.
As for the information, we all lack it. Who has 100% of the information available? Not even the couple involved in the original question, as they cannot look into each other's mind. They will have to make rules, assumptions and interpretations, so the information is incomplete and in some cases wrong. A typical example is cheating on an unsuspecting spouse: His/her opinion of the cheating spouse being an 'angel' is obviously wrong - to others who know. Shall we - just to be safe - never compliment a spouse because he/she COULD be cheating and then we'd be wrong?
BTW, the definition of 'opinion' is "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty". | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/28/2008 9:54:28 PM |
Wow, it must be pretty quiet in your part of the country then, if that's the environment you grew up in. 'Bias' is "a particular tendency or inclination, esp. one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question". If you have an opinion, then by definition you have a bias. Everytime a choice or an angle is possible and you pick one, you lean towards one more than all others.
As for the information, we all lack it. Who has 100% of the information available? Not even the couple involved in the original question, as they cannot look into each other's mind. They will have to make rules, assumptions and interpretations, so the information is incomplete and in some cases wrong. A typical example is cheating on an unsuspecting spouse: His/her opinion of the cheating spouse being an 'angel' is obviously wrong - to others who know. Shall we - just to be safe - never compliment a spouse because he/she COULD be cheating and then we'd be wrong?
BTW, the definition of 'opinion' is "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty".
First off, bias and opinions are not mutually inclusive. Opinions are generated on anything from experience, to teachings, to research. Bias is generated by excluding any information that does not fit into what you choose to believe. So please, don't try to sit there and get technical with me about how i worded my posts, thinking that you win because you can quote the dictionary.
Again, I will iterate, if you opinion is biased in nature, and not based on facts, research, and outside information, then stating your opinion as truth is completely and utterly invalid.
In the case of this thread, the only person that is close enough to the situation to give a solid account of what's truly going on with this couple, says that going outside the marriage for sexual gratification works for them, and makes them happy. Yet, despite the information from a second hand account, people who are completely unfamiliar with this couple are adamant that they can not, and will never, be happy. This is a biased opinion. It is biased, because it is based on personal experience, and not on factual research, or outside information. The opinion lacks objectivity. This makes them invalid.
In any case, I think I've gotten far enough off the original intention of the thread, so I'll stop now. | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/28/2008 10:02:17 PM | i'd say that's not a real marriage, and that these two screwed up people are perfectly matched, and neither one is completely fulfilled by the other.... doesn't sound like the sort of relationship that i would want to have.
good for them i guess. but that doesn't make them any less screwed up and incapable of being able to properly bond with another human being.... it says a lot... it screams
dysfunctional!
lar | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/29/2008 4:46:13 AM |
I know for fact he has a favorite (yea, I know her
* Where did the guy find his dom? Doms-R-Us? ( There's one in every shopping mall We are all around you.
As for my profession, it does not need defending. Am I the only one picking up on this?
Not that it matters.
back on topic, neither my wife or I would ever take this route | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:55:17 AM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^picking up on what there mr. nonsense? That shes a dominatrix? Its in her profile.
Not that it matters.
So why bring it up if it doesnt matter?
back on topic, neither my wife or I would ever take this route
Are you sure about your wife? Lots of marriages break apart when wives dont act like the husbands think they would. | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/30/2008 3:39:18 AM | i have read most replies and i am with the majority and say i wouldnt do it either.
But there is the other side in the first post. That they love each other. Now what that brings to the relationship may mean more than the physical side, and so brought them closer to gether. Different things for different people. Lookign back wish i could have saved my marriage and di try loads of things.
If it works for them, and all parties are aware and ok with it, then it has saved them.
carole | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/30/2008 4:23:51 AM | | There is no way i would even consider such a drastic change like that! They don't have counsellors for nothing. This is an underlying situation, not about the sex. If counselling didn't work, although having to be taken seriously, than i don't agree changing to other couples as being the answer. Unfortunely, breaking up would be the only answer. | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/30/2008 5:09:02 AM |
If counselling didn't work, although having to be taken seriously, than i don't agree changing to other couples as being the answer. Unfortunely, breaking up would be the only answer.
It depends on the much. A counselor might be the one that suggests that the couple consider opening up their marriage. Especially if the data provided suggests that option as a potential solution.
Marriage & Family Therapists are not trained to subscribe to any one relationship model. The best relationships are those mutually negotiated and function according to the agreed upon terms, including those relationships that are open to others. Breaking up is not the only answer. It is one solution of many to consider.
Regards,
ACP | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/30/2008 5:32:27 AM | well, such an act is rather dishonorable.
Not cheating as both know of the others actions, but if they have to look elsewhere for satisfaction there is something wrong in their relationship to each other | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/30/2008 5:47:11 AM |
I know a older couple (in their 50's) with an interesting dynamic in their marriage. They allow each other to "cheat" twice a month under strict conditions...
Would you open your marriage (with strict rules and conditions) in order to save it?
Are you kidding about "strict rules and conditions"?
MINISTER TO GROOM:
Do you GROOM'S NAME take BRIDE'S NAME to be your wife – to live together after God’s ordinance – in the holy estate of matrimony? Will you love her, comfort her, honor and keep her, in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse, in sadness and in joy, to cherish and continually bestow upon her your heart’s deepest devotion, forsaking all others, keep yourself only unto her as long as you both shall live?
GROOM:
Well, maybe. But if things don't work out the way I vowed, can I go with the open/marriage scenario?
MINISTER GIVES THE GROOM ONE GOOD SLAP ACROSS THE FACE AND GROOM TURNS THE OTHER CHEEK.
MINISTER TO BRIDE:
Do you BRIDE'S NAME) take GROOM'S NAME to be your husband – to live together after God’s ordinance – in the holy estate of matrimony? Will you love him, comfort him, honor and keep him, in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse, in sadness and in joy, to cherish and continually bestow upon him your heart’s deepest devotion, forsaking all others, keep yourself only unto him as long as you both shall live?
Well, maybe. But if things don't work out the way I vowed, can I go with the open/marriage scenario?
MINISTER HOLDS UP THE BIBLE AND FANS ITS PAGES UPON BRIDE UNTIL THE HOLY SPIRIT "CUMS" ALL OVER HER FACE. | |
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revad
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Joined: 8/11/2008
Msg: 166 | |
| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/30/2008 7:03:28 AM | | I would never have an open marriage. I'm sure it works for some, but I don't think you should get married and have sex with other people. Why get married at all if thats what you might want later? | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/30/2008 7:15:59 AM | | I don't know if I would feel comfortable with an open marriage, but whatever works for the two people who are in the marriage is what matters. I guess having an open marriage is better than cheating and having to be dishonest with your spouse. | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/30/2008 7:20:22 AM | | No way, I guess I can't judge someone else and what they do, but if I were married and we got to this point. It's time to get serious and either get things back on track . Marriage sure doesn't have to grow stale but again, you have to work at it to keep it fresh. Maybe you just need to change things up a bit on your own: read a spicy novelette to your spouse or have him come home to you in something skimpy. Get the romance back in the marriage. | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/30/2008 5:39:48 PM | I would say no. Call me old fashion in a way or call me selfish. But I don't like to share. If you have to open your marriage to others to save it, then there is a problem with the relationship and it maybe doomed. I imagine myself never being tired of the person I'm with. It's like being tired of being friends with your best friend.
Try roleplaying, where you can pretend to be strangers in a bar and you're picking eachother up. Sounds corny, but it may work. Just use some imagination.
If my partner really loved me and wanted our marriage to work then she would find some other way than to want to bring other into our bed.
This is just my opinion. | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/30/2008 8:57:50 PM |
grapevine: "many words"
I expected nothing less than this from you. But fortunately I don't measure my own success based upon your criticisms. In fact, that you dislike my choices is a reasonable enough affirmation that I'm making the right choice. Thanks! | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:28:44 AM |
grapevine: "Moreover, it's clear you haven't noticed that the majority of people in this thread feel the same way I do, pretty much."
Since when do I have to do something because most people do it? Most people watch television, I don't. Should I now go out to Best Buy and purchase a large screen television and turn on Cops, drink a beer, wear a wife-beater t-shirt and scratch myself because that's what *most people* do? I think not. I'm not a lemming. I'm an intelligent person who uses logic to determine what actions I take. But you'll never understand this because you feel compelled to do what everybody else is doing. You live your life afraid of what others will think of you. I do not live in fear. I don't live in fear because I am intelligent enough to understand the world around me and have the confidence that the decisions I make are correct for me.
When you make statements like this, "Screwing around while married or committed to someone is a sign of an unhealthy relationship." you need to finish that statement with "...in my humble opinion". If you don't then you're suggesting that your opinion is reality. It isn't.
Look, I can't explain this in any clearer language to you: I don't care what you have to say or think because I don't respect your opinions in the least. I've read what you've written in the past and I literally have zero respect for you. | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:36:28 AM | Reminds me of a Seinfeld episode:
"Sex...to SAVE the friendship!"
I think not. I didn't quite get from the OP if it was primarily one partner or both who are screwing "around". It read like it was a mutual thing. It's only a matter of time before someone violates the Sacred Rules of Screwing and the marriage will end anyway. I've known several supposedly open couples who tried this and it always signified the beginning of the end. Most were in their 40's or 50's.
Knew a couple here who felt compelled to do the same - except they were in their early 30's. They split within 3 years leaving both of them bewildered as to what happened.
Duh! | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/31/2008 5:02:34 AM | "Screwing around while married...to someone is a sign of an unhealthy relationship," and, because one of the two screws around means one partner has broken the marriage vow since the other has already disapproved of that kind of behavior.
If a married person does not care about the thoughts, feelings, emotions, safety, and commitment to the person to whom he/she is married along with the ramifications of one's own behavior, why get married to the person in the first place?
But some will say: "I don't care what the other person feels or thinks!"
Fine! I too know the meaning of f**k you! | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/31/2008 5:40:40 AM | I know a few long, long term married couples who have tried this, and they are very happy.
They dont look at thier marriages as 'ownership'. They feel like they are partners, and no one will ever try to break them up...they stand firm on thier commitment to one another, as partners...and they always play together.
I dont know if I could handle that...but on the other hand, I am not sure if today's society actually supports monogomous marriage either. Perhaps these couples are onto something...perhaps not...but the standard/traditional marriages are not working either. | |
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| Would you open you marriage to save it?
Posted: 8/31/2008 6:00:18 AM |
I dont know if I could handle that...but on the other hand, I am not sure if today's society actually supports monogomous marriage either.
Two people agree to be monogamous, and they are the one's who give support to each other. Why would a couple need outside help to support their decision to be monogamous? | |
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