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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/21/2005 2:09:49 PM | You know it really does look like you're right Q John,
Then, I suspect there is the unpalatable notion that we may be descended from creatures that don't make acceptable ancestors to creationsist.
This really does seem to bug them, when evolution suggests we came from monkeys, the arrogant, elitist and insecure want to believe they are better then the rest of creation. When the truth is all creatures of earth are equal. All creatures of earth are necessary. We are all bound together in a delicate balance and thinking that you're above that is erroneous. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/21/2005 5:51:15 PM | Thanks trewq?
the arrogant, elitist and insecure want to believe they are better then the rest of creation
Hmmmm - how about better than the rest of humankind? - I guess elitist covers that!
Having said that, there are also many humble, considerate folks on each side of the argument who are happy to get along with everyone, despite their differences and work towards what may be the same ultimate goal for both camps. I suspect if everyone focused on solving their own pieces of the puzzle we'd all come to a happy conclusion more quickly - just as the earth eventually became spherical and in orbit around the sun. I guess the problem with that situation was rather similar...... People at the time wanted the earth to be the center of the universe and were upset (to say the least) when people suggested that there was something MUCH bigger out there. I guess science keeps making us smaller .... humbler. Not necessarily a justification for science, but didn't I hear something about the meek inheriting the earth? | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/21/2005 6:19:13 PM | Not sure if your now-deleted comment was to me, Harry, but at least I recognize the need for a little humilty - and try, even though I may not always succeed - and I'll always try to listen to constructive hints
Now, how do you delete posts like that? The post referring to Schroeder (message 98) was also deleted - How d'you do that? Located the books, but haven't looked at them yet.
LOL - this is starting to look like I have an invisible friend ......... YIKES!!!!!!!
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-moderators | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/21/2005 7:31:16 PM | | @Quiet John2, yes I wanted to get those books about creation and the six days of Genesis..Do you have the name and titles...thanks...I tried emailing Harry but no response.. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/21/2005 10:50:20 PM |
The books were Gerald L. Schroeder "The Science of God" and "Genesis and the Big Bang"
One I enjoyed reading was FRITJOF CAPRA: The Tao of Physics
Some others that someone suggested to me in emails were:-
Evan Walker Harris: The Physics of Consciousness
ANDREW MD NEWBERG, EUGENE G. D'AQUILI, VINCE RAUSE: Why God Won't Go Away : Brain Science and the Biology of Belief
John Polkinghorne: The Faith of a Physicist
And thanks, neverwalk - now I feel I'm not the only one with imaginary friends! | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/25/2005 2:15:51 PM | Does anyone else realize that all of that water would muck up the PH balance in the oceans and kill all of the fish? That's right, all of the fish.
(Oh, Late, your questions will never be answered.) | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/25/2005 2:55:02 PM | I still find a problem with the time frame of all this.
The Human race is less then two million years old. I would say more then a million years for us to go from animals to Civilization, so the flood had to have happened sometime after that.
I'll join in,many including evolutionist have problems with accepted time frames of evolution.
It is not supported by the carbon dating, fossil and geological evidence we have found.
Actually,when you look at carbon dating, there have been MANY problems with its accuracy.
Truth is,there are many questions to both sides.Theory is theory and will remain until proven otherwise.At this point,Evolutionist and Creationist seem to believe as though their perspective is fact.
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 109 | |
| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/25/2005 3:28:21 PM |
Theory is theory and will remain until proven otherwise.
Please read the thread, Theory IS theory, fact is fact.
The "theory" road has already been travelled, you're not using the word in the context in which it applies to science. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/25/2005 5:42:35 PM | | maybe I'm mixing metaphors here..but is'nt a scientific fact or theory established on the basis of a repeatable experiment?? Yes I have read the facts that have been presented. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/26/2005 12:06:03 AM | | So, have you thought that that means Noah whould need to carry all of the fish to. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/26/2005 12:15:09 AM | | Gee I dont know what you are getting at there...Hatake..seems a bit fishy to me | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/26/2005 1:14:49 AM | | there are a billion different kinds of fish, all completly unique. No amount of slective breeding could yeild such results. The flood is a myth, simple as that. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/27/2005 12:16:59 AM |
No Answers In Genesis' stuff on Hovind had plenty of flaws in its arguments. Kent Hovind may be obnoxious but his information is plenty legit. All of you have made claims that it is not yet still have failed to give one example of where he is wrong?
Strange argument on your point if you think about it. There are flaws in Hovind's arguments, but his information is "plenty legit"?
wow. i said there were flaws in No Answers In Genesis' arguements that Hovind was not legit. i dont know how i could have made that more clear.
i have no doubt evolution will be completely rejected as a plausible scientific theory within our lifetime (assuming the scientific community returns to the scientific method). if not i fear the world will continue to perpetuate lies and ignorance.
am i being elitist? hardly. it is evolution that has become a religion. with that said, i retire from this debate, but by no means conceed my case nor my points. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/27/2005 8:05:39 AM | I have and do admit that Evolution has not answered ALL the questions. But creation seems to have only one answer, "God Did It". Which would not be too bad, I can see where one of God's days is not the same as one of my days. But it seems to then mean that all the rest of the bible has to be taken as fact. And so the creationist has to now explain a "World Wide Flood" and how one man with a few pairs of animals re-populated the planet in a rather short period of time.
Seems to me if you just drop the Flood story things would be a lot better. Like I can see where a major flood would SEEM like the whole planet has been done and "simple" folk would create folklore about it. The flood story after all is common to many societies, as, I would guess, every society has had a major loss due to floods. But it does not mean that they all happened on the same day.
If you drop the "World Wide Flood" concept, perhaps you could make more leeway with your Hypotheses. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/27/2005 1:11:44 PM | "f you drop the "World Wide Flood" concept, perhaps you could make more leeway with your Hypotheses."
I not sure if the bible really is talking world wide flood..I think some one did find some evidence of a wide spread local flood in the Mespotamia or Turkey area..Would need to do more research on that one.. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/27/2005 1:55:04 PM |
wow. i said there were flaws in No Answers In Genesis' arguements that Hovind was not legit. i dont know how i could have made that more clear.
You're right...wow | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/27/2005 8:32:55 PM | Peter. Glad to see you're still here. The only reason I can imagine that the moderators cited me here for spam (huh?) was that they thought I was somewhat rough on you. If that was the case, I apologise. You debated valiantly, answered honestly and stepped back when you recognized that you had stretched your assumptions on miracles. I could have been more gracious. I learned things from the interchange and I hope you did too.
OT ..... Anyone heard of Eichorn's notion of 'The Higher Criticism? (The latter is an interesting/revealing Google search - e.g. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04491c.htm) A list of scripture scholars going back to the 17th century evolved the notion that the Pentateuch was the work of several authors and that the story of creation mixes Yahwist, Elohists and Priestly narratives. Ultimately, the conclusion seems to be that the Biblical description of Creation is more myth than reality.
Read all of this in a book - Unravelling the Book of Books by Ernest R. Trattner. It is about a study of the Bible from a literary, linguistic and historical perspective, showing different literary and linguistic styles, inconsistencies among different narratives of the same events, instructions, etc. and inconsistencies with language and historical facts. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/28/2005 7:21:01 AM | Yea, it is the inconsistencies, misconceptions and contradictions of the Bible (or Koran or what ever) that should rise Questions in any thinking person. Like another thread on the Trinity, confusing!
Like it has to be a big mystery or else everyone would figure it out for themselves and there would be no need of priests. So they dazzle us with brillance and baffle us with... you know.
So that no one can understand what the F...... is going on. They, like our politicans, keep the sheep confused and scared so that they don't wonder off and find out that things are better else where.
Oh wait, isn't this just what Christ was trying to tell us???? | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/28/2005 2:54:07 PM | My head hurts, I'm not smart enough for this = (
I need to stick to threads that need only a double digit IQ.
Science has agreed with many of the occurances in the bible, including the great flood. So even scientists can't deny the accuracy of the bible, they just disagree with the ones that prove science wrong. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/28/2005 5:36:30 PM | many people (scientists, thoerorists) speculate many things how the universe came to be.
maybe chaos, a big bang, aliens, monkeys, fish, turtles, a blackhole?
nice try mr. smarty pants!
the universe is perfect. if the earth were any other place we'd not exist to ask these questions.
why do we even ask?
we ask because we fall short of perfection, thus do not want to execpt it.
we know in our conscious what is right from wrong, otherwise we would not be in 2005 A.D. After Death) | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/28/2005 6:51:38 PM |
Science has agreed with many of the occurances in the bible, including the great flood. So even scientists can't deny the accuracy of the bible, they just disagree with the ones that prove science wrong.
Sure, the Bible gets some things right. The Great Deluge isn't one of them. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/28/2005 6:54:56 PM |
I not sure if the bible really is talking world wide flood..
It sure seems to. God says he's going to destroy all humans on the Earth. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/28/2005 7:06:48 PM |
Actually,when you look at carbon dating, there have been MANY problems with its accuracy.
Truth is,there are many questions to both sides.Theory is theory and will remain until proven otherwise.At this point,Evolutionist and Creationist seem to believe as though their perspective is fact.
One of the problems with radiocarbon dating is that ratios of C-12 and C-14 in the atmosphere vary. For short time periods this isn't an issue. For long periods it is. However, accuracy can be improved by calibrating the method to an independent measurement, like dendrochronology. Still, radiocarbon dating is only good for about 40,000 years. A very small time frame comparatively speaking. When measuring older dates you need another tool. And we have them. They don't suffer from the same problem, though there is a similar problem. Sometimes radioactive material can be deposited or conversely leeched away. And we don't know how much material was originally present. These are not unsurmountable problems. There's a technique called isochron dating which relies on the fact that in some radioactive decays the daughter products are also radioactive. This method calibrates itself and tells us if there's been any leeching or depositing of radioactive material as well as how much. You can also take samples from different locations so leeching and deposition will vary and you can take an average.
Also it needs to be stressed that Evolution is a fact and a theory. This can be confusing at times. Evolution has been observed (including speciation), which makes it a fact. But evolution has many different mechanisms and there's debate over which is more important. That's the theoretical part. | |
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| Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 6/29/2005 10:16:42 AM | | OOOOOOOh oh ok....So there's no chance God created and/or planned evolution. No chance that a being that powerful could have started something this complicated right? Here's a riddle...any chance God created the earth with a big bang? maybe both sides of this ... which came first the chicken or the egg discussion are correct. Maybe the chicken was created laying an egg. | |
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