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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/5/2008 7:55:50 PM |
Maybe, if she EVER DOES AN INTERVIEW, someone will ask her.
Let's face it. The McCain camp will keep her sequestered for as long as they possibly can. That smarmy speech she gave is going to come back to haunt her. As soon as someone like Leher gets ahold of her, it's goodby Charlie. As one republican commentator said (when she thought the microphone was off - BULLSHIT POLITICS. That's a REPUBLICAN commentator's take on Ms. Lipstick moose killing hockey mom. | |
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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/5/2008 9:00:08 PM | The most interesting thing one sees in watching the US presidential contest from outside the US is how strong the emotions run and vicious the party supporters tend to be with their opponents -- much more so than the party leaders.
One never used to see quite so much of that. Perhaps it was always there in some measure -- but it wasn't the most obvious defining characteristic of campaigns. And it is ironic to me that there is rarely much real ideological space between the two major US parties. They truly span the political spectrum from A to C -- as the old joke goes.
Practically any speech given -- or law enacted could have been supported in good measure by either Democrats or Republicans at some point over the last 50 years-- in fact the parties look more convergent today than at any time I can recall. In many many ways George W Bush has been more "liberal' in terms of legislative policy, programming and government spending than Bill Clinton -- if you discount the rhetoric. That was also true in many ways of Eisenhower vs. Truman, Nixon-Ford as compared to Carter -- and it was the interventionist policy of Jimmy Carter (sanctions and pressure on Iran) that led to the fall of the more-or-less friendly -- and liberal -- by Iranian standards dictatorship of the Shaw and allowed the rise of the currently empowered ultra-fundamentalists. (After that US support of Saddam Hussein as a counter to the Iranian influence allowing his rise to regional dominance and ultimately triggering the two invasions and the ongoing conflict.)
Six of one and half dozen of the other.... | |
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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/5/2008 9:06:50 PM |
Six of one and half dozen of the other....
This is one of those things people say to make it seem they are above the fray, but it's not true. The two major parties are very different from one another, and the divide (which was always there) has if anything INCREASED over the last few years rather than decreased. Sure, some democrats have some ideas in common with some republicans, and there are "rightish" dems as well as "leftish" republicans that can see, I would imagine, common ground on some issues that tend to divide the two parties. But the idea that this is just a "six of one and half dozen of the other" race is ridiculous. | |
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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/5/2008 9:32:36 PM |
This is one of those things people say to make it seem they are above the fray
Well -- I am above the fray ( here in Canada -- looking at most maps of North America. Canada is clearly positioned above the US).
McCain is a very very atypical Republican -- and Obama an entity quite detached from the traditions of the Democratic party -- more of a policy icon perhaps than a main stream candidate.... If you were to compare that for example with the distance between the BQ and the Conservative Party in Canada
(where the BQ's stated purpose is to break up the country and allow Quebec to achieve full independence from Canada and the current Conservative party leader is firmly rooted in the strict enforcement of the distinct constitutional powers of the Federal and Provincial levels) you would see far more dramatic political differences than Red and Blue neck ties.. | |
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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/5/2008 9:43:43 PM | kaos~
actually...banning mein kampf would be dumb. we actually studied excerpts from it in a class to illustrate the lack of logic. diagraming some of those arguments was really mind blowing. what a nut job! and how completely illogical and scattered! people should know what a psycho hitler was. i also advocate reading marx for the same reason... it's important to really understand the ideologies that have shaped the past century...such knowledge is the best way to arm oneself against such dangerous ideas...
lar | |
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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/5/2008 10:31:51 PM |
Well -- I am above the fray ( here in Canada -- looking at most maps of North America. Canada is clearly positioned above the US).
You know it doesn't actually work that way....geographically-speaking I mean...right?
McCain is a very very atypical Republican -- and Obama an entity quite detached from the traditions of the Democratic party -- more of a policy icon perhaps than a main stream candidate.... If you were to compare that for example with the distance between the BQ and the Conservative Party in Canada
(where the BQ's stated purpose is to break up the country and allow Quebec to achieve full independence from Canada and the current Conservative party leader is firmly rooted in the strict enforcement of the distinct constitutional powers of the Federal and Provincial levels) you would see far more dramatic political differences than Red and Blue neck ties..
McCain USED to be something of an "atypical" repubican (although I'd argue that the republican party since Reagan has rather lost touch with itself)--but whatever maverick status he might once have had, it's gone: if it wasn't, many of us would be much less fearful of a McCain presidency. And you will have to explain what you mean when you call Obama a "policy icon"--I don't follow. But anyway, while I admit that I don't know jack about the divisions between Canadian political parties (my bad I guess), I will say that measuring the division of ours against yours, and then concluding from that that there's no DIFFERENCE between ours, is fallacious. My point is that it's a wrong to suggest, essentially, that it doesn't matter who wins OUR election in November. IMO you couldn't be more wrong about that. | |
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| Pro dead animal party
Posted: 9/5/2008 10:44:46 PM |
You make it sounds like actual delegates are committed. The delegates will be awarded according to the popular vote. We don't know how people are going to vote yet, everything is very fluid right now.
Yes dear, everyone knows how these things are determined (except maybe for those who pretend others don't).
You tossed out one national poll that happened to back your candidate while there were 2 or 3 others just as recent that placed Obama ahead (hmm... results from one poll that showed a tie compared 2-3 times as many that didn't show a tie and the average still showed Obama ahead. I wonder which view is the more statistically rigorous?)
The numbers I provided are based on both national and state polls, including the averaging of several polls in each case (the most statistically rigorous and predictive way to do it).
Perhaps a link that is actually good?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/
(and, if you notice, this one actually gives your boy more credit than the link you gave). | |
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| Pro dead animal party
Posted: 9/5/2008 10:55:59 PM | Well Hot Damn mungojoe!! I knew it was in the bag....but I didn't realize HOW in the bag! This is way better than John King's dancing map! Hahahahhahahhhahhahaa!
Biden, STAY IN PA AND NJ!!
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| Pro dead animal party
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:11:39 PM |
You do realize that Palin went ariel hunting because the US fish and game department decided there was a large imbalance with the moose population and natural predators (i.e alot of moose where being killed by wolves and bears). They went hunting to help keep the populations check.
It's a tricky practice to interfere with nature but in some cases it is a good thing. This is intriging to me 'cause most people that are against the possesion of ivory at any cost don't realize that elephants are such a massive animal that if a herd or two isn't 'culled' once in a while they will literally eat themselves out of existence. I'm impressed that Madam Palin is involved with this endevor with the mooses.
By the way, they are extremely good eating. We get them here from our friends in Alaska and cook them 'kalua' style, under ground like the whole pigs at a luau. | |
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| Pro dead animal party
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:24:45 PM | These kinds of stories on her are pretty irrelevant to me. This is the culture in Alaska and it's not out of the ordinary.
The ethical problems and the claims of "executive experience" that lead to nothing but financial ruination of Wasilla are the stories that interest me. | |
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| Pro dead animal party
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:25:57 PM | Hawaiian. It isn't moose who are hunted by aerial means, but wolves, and the purpose is to facilitate leaving the mooses killed by wolves for humans to kill. Despite the fact that aerial hunting was actually banned in federal law in the 1970s, Alaska uses a loophole allowing aerial "management" to allow private citizens (NOT federal agents, as an earlier poster said) to kill wolves from the sky as a measure to "manage" moose and caribou populations. And THIS even despite the fact that Alaskans themselves have voted twice to ban the practice. There's another vote this November--but it seems that Madam Palin doesn't really care what the people of Alaska think.
And how about the TROPHY hunting? So we kill wolves from the air so that hunters can kill moose and caribou (not to mention bears) in order to stick their heads on their walls? That's ethical?
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| Pro dead animal party
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:35:02 PM | No worries, hawaiian.
*************************
These kinds of stories on her are pretty irrelevant to me.
This is the culture in Alaska and it's not out of the ordinary.
Again, the people of Alaska have voted twice against this practice
and their votes have been overturned by the state legislature.
And just this last March, Palin introduced a bill to prevent Alaskans
who had gathered enough signatures to once again put a ban to a ballot vote.
I don't usually provide links from political sites, but here's one to a press release
on the latest March measure.
HUNTING is a way of life in Alaska, but aerial hunting is, for most real hunters,
not sporting.
http://www.defenders.org/resources/publications/programs_and_policy/
wildlife_conservation/imperiled_species/wolf/alaska_wolf/
press_release_house_passes_governors_bill_to_expand_aerial_hunting.pdf
Even if someone doesn't care two flips about this particular issue,
surely they can recognize a corruption of the democratic process when they see it. | |
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| Pro dead animal party
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:40:07 PM | The most recent polls show a dead heat since the most recent convention.McCain's speech was watched by 38.9 million Americans 1/2 million more than Obama's .Obama has finally admitted that the troop surge had a positive effect in Iraq.
Many of our posters need to stop posting out right lies(on both sides).There seems to be an audacity of arrogance from many of our left leaning posters.Palin has never been a member of the AIP seperatist movement and Their leadership has acknowledged it,So one poster needs to quit beating that dead horse.
Some of you need to quit being so arrogant in holding up your supposed education,If you don't have a Political Science degree you might want to hold off on your theories concerning the motivations of McCain in selecting Palin as a running mate.You look to have pie in your face.She has apparently provided him with surge in the polls.Back to the education thing,there are more people without college degrees than with.They vote and they outnumber you.
The personal attacks and slander expressed by many of you against Gov. Palin and her family show a lack of intelligence and class.The sexist remarks are so hypocritical that they have become comedic.
Obama's European Tour is appearing to be a very serious mistake.Many Americans see foreign support for Obama not as a reason to vote for Obama but against him, this includes Canadian support.
Be careful what you post it can't be taken back and you just might look stupid later on. | |
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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:50:16 PM | Can we change Thread Titles like is being done? (page 74 of this thread..re' something about dead animals)...I had to go back to a post which I wasn't addressing and/or change the title back to it's Original...to know I was on the right thread. I noticed it when I glanced up on the post page here.
Palin was a good choice for VP. She will hold her own on the Issues and with the biased Media. It's setting a new 'trend' that it's quite UnPC to be PC correct. That's the way the ship is aheaded it appears.
I was totally impressed that Sarah was not hesitant to appear on stage as a VP Nom in a skirt/blouse, jacket and high heels! Kudos! She's not ashamed she is a Neoconservative either.
And, you gotta admit... Hillary Clinton is probably pizzzed that Palin is in the position she is. Also, if Clinton is smart, she will be pulling, secretly, for Obama to lose then, watch and see if she isn't the Dem. Nom next election to run against McCain if he elects to run and if he doesn't....it will be Hillary vs. Sarah. Any takers on that bet?  | |
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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:55:59 PM | No, because it's virtually inconceivable at this point that McCain/Palin will win.
If they did, I would expect to see Clinton running in 2012.
But purplecrayon, do you have any opinions on actual issues? | |
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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:58:49 PM | [QUOTE] And, you gotta admit... Hillary Clinton is probably pizzzed that Palin is in the position she is. Also, if Clinton is smart, she will be pulling, secretly, for Obama to lose then, watch and see if she isn't the Dem. Nom next election to run against McCain if he elects to run and if he doesn't....it will be Hillary vs. Sarah. Any takers on that bet? [/QUOTE]
Clinton has already lost the nomination this year to a inexperienced Obama. Her chances for success on a repeat are slim.
Palin doesn't become the odds on favorite for the Presidency by virtue of being VP or we'd all be singing Cheney's praises.
Whoever gets in will likely have two terms (that's what it's going to take to make some appreciable change) and 8 years from now you're looking at mature candidates that aren't even on the roadmap today.
O | |
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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/6/2008 12:03:15 AM | Finding interesting stuff is just too easy! No damn wonder McCain's team wanted the distraction of pregnant-gate. How dare the evil media question this fine Christian woman?  Boy, the team really vetted this woman!  The Anchorage Daily News is a great source of interesting stuff!
ADN article: Palin pressured Librarian:
http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html
Anne Kilkenny viral email from Wasilla + pages of comments from Alaskans
http://community.adn.com/adn/node/130537
At the Convention: RNC talking points for Alaska delegation
http://community.adn.com/adn/node/130647
“What's a loyal Alaska Republican to say when reporters ask about Ted, Sarah, the state's corruption epidemic and Fairbanks Republican Mayor Jim Whitaker's backing of Obama? …
Delegates were vague on the origin but it sounds like they came via the Republican National Committee. …”
Palin Was a Director of Embattled Sen. Stevens's 527 Group
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/01/palin_was_a_director_of_embatt.html
...and there's so much more!
Extra! Extra! Read all about it! If you can't read, just vote Republican!  | |
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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/6/2008 12:15:52 AM | to do the highlighting thing you use lower case letters, i think, Obsidian.
That's correct -
[ quote] instead of [QUOTE] to open it up...
(^ I put a space in there)
Took me the longest time to figure that daggone thing out, too!  | |
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| Pro dead animal party
Posted: 9/6/2008 12:28:33 AM | These kinds of stories on her are pretty irrelevant to me.
This is the culture in Alaska and it's not out of the ordinary.
__________________________________________________
Again, the people of Alaska have voted twice against this practice
and their votes have been overturned by the state legislature.
And just this last March, Palin introduced a bill to prevent Alaskans
who had gathered enough signatures to once again put a ban to a ballot vote.
I don't usually provide links from political sites, but here's one to a press release
on the latest March measure.
HUNTING is a way of life in Alaska, but aerial hunting is, for most real hunters,
not sporting.
http://www.defenders.org/resources/publications/programs_and_policy/
wildlife_conservation/imperiled_species/wolf/alaska_wolf/
press_release_house_passes_governors_bill_to_expand_aerial_hunting.pdf
Even if someone doesn't care two flips about this particular issue,
surely they can recognize a corruption of the democratic process when they see it.
_______________________________________________________
Nomadic,
All I'm trying to say is that there is a danger of getting caught up in character or presonality/ morality arguments and not focusing more on the problems she's had specifically when she's been given power or left in charge of financial responsibilities. Hammering away at those things will eventually force them into the mainstream media. I noticed the huffington post has run every scrap of bad news on Palin, they have a more liberal readership, but the drudge report and fox has only post RNC started to report on the ethical inquiry (with as much focus on what a bad guy the ex brother in law was and little emphasis on her abuse of process; sending her own investigator to question witnesses without opposing counsel present or looking in confidential employee files), possible ties to Ted Stevens, oil companies and lobbyists. Also any direct contradiction of emphatic claims she makes.
Arianna Huffington went on Larry King and made a very interesting point. With 2 months left to the election, the american public needs to focus primarily on McCain and Obama, their policies, shortcomings, etc. To get caught up in the Sarah Palin sideshow for too long would be dangerous for the country.
So, I've heard all these other things. Definately she sucks jsut on principle if you're an environmentalist, animal lover, pro-choice, or in favor of an education, but these issues don't bear so much on how she can effectively carry out her duties.
If she hunts wolves, that majorly sucks for the wolves, but it doesn't indicate that she will suppress alternative energy in favor of sweetheart deals to oil companies, like her ties to BP (British Petroleum co.) might suggest she could. | |
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| It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/6/2008 12:38:11 AM |
Anne Kilkenny viral email from Wasilla + pages of comments from Alaskans
http://community.adn.com/adn/node/130537
This should be required reading for all SARAH PALIN SUPPORTERS!! GO SARAH!! | |
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| Pro dead animal party
Posted: 9/6/2008 12:41:22 AM | thatswhatshesaid,
Thanks for the thoughtful answer. First, not to be a **** about it, but for me, with Palin--especially after her convention speech--the gloves are off. That doesn't mean that I want to slander Palin--I don't that's helpful, it's immoral, and it can easily backfire. BUT, you know, while I have a big interest in the global warming issue (which Palin dismisses), I'm not really normally someone with the fuzzy animals issue on my radar (meaning I care, but it's not one of my BIG issues). But for me, there's an ETHICS issue here, and THIS (her "ethical, reformist" self) is one of the big things she's running on...thus my centralizing of her actions in undermining voter opinion AND actual ballot votes and petitions on aerial hunting.
Anyway, you are right, the tops of the tickets are the thing....except, that's not what's happening. The spotlight is squarely on Palin, and the republicans are framing her as a savior candidate for their side. McCain isn't interesting--we all know his story, we've heard it a thousand times, and most importantly, it's not hard to get information about him. Palin's NEW, and she's hidden. It's very difficult to get a sense of her on some of the issues (biggies, like the STUFF OF NATIONAL POLITICS). And so if all we can use and look to in order to get the measure of her as a politician and a person who is either ethical or not, wise or not, moral or not, are these seemingly relatively MINOR state or local-level issues and conflicts, isn't it right to examine them? I'm not looking at her aerial hunting policies as "oh she's a meanie and hates cute wolves and caribou." I'm looking at it as "oh she exploited a loophole in federal law, and then rejected a legitimate vote by her constintuency multiple times, in order to satisfy trophy hunters." That's not about caribou or wolves, it's about her ethics, which IS relevant to the national campaign. See what I mean?
But you know, like everyone else, I'm learning about her as I go along. The picture I'm getting is not a pretty one, and I think it's RIGHT to express that and talk about it and share what I find because I DO think she's dangerous, even if 2008 isn't her year. | |
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