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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/10/2008 1:49:28 PM | Relax, Navigator. You aren't making logical deductions from what I am saying, you are making leaps. I said that there are going to a lot of men that are going to be good at courting and as a result of that attitude, they'll be in successful committed relationships.
That DOESN'T automatically mean that all men that are good at courting will be in successful relationships, because obviously there can be a whole lot of other reasons that they are not having success (not directed at you, but just to give you a small sampling of the variety of reasons: a man can be good at courting and still be too ugly, too arrogant, too dumb, too non-committal, too difficult to be around, too smelly, too racist, too easily offended, too angry, too messy, too tidy, too inflexible, too blah blah blah. You can also be too totally uninterested in a serious relationship, which is your perogative, I don't really care). So if you are offended that I would suggest that the only reason you are here is because you don't court well, don't worry, I am quite open to the idea that something else could be wrong with you instead!  And by the way, yes I am here too, and I could have several flaws that keep me from being in a serious committed relationship. I kind of assume that, but I don't let it get me down. There's someone for everyone. Of course I'm saying that as someone who is here too. But courtship is not my problem. I am great at the courting period.
Simply stating that good courting skills will lead to success in relationships does not mean that other things can't go wrong, but you can't deny that it will help, all other things being equal, so it stands to reason that a lot of the people in the courting group will already be coupled up, and their opinions not reflected in this particular dating singles forum.
Hmmm, how can I show you that you aren't making logical sense...Okay, here's an example. If I say:
"- Mary likes blue marbles.
- A lot of the marbles in Mary's pocket are blue. "
If you are trying to figure out how many marbles in Mary's neighbourhood are blue, and you only ask Jimmy and Jane what colour their marbles are, you may not really know how many blue marbles there really are, since there's a whole bunch of blue ones that you are not accounting for, that are hiding in Mary's pockets.
Then if you come at me indignant and fuming saying "JIMMY has blue marbles too!" Well, that may be true, but that doesn't mean that Mary doesn't have the blue marbles that she has or that she doesn't like blue marbles. All I said was that "Mary likes blue marbles" and that you need to account for those blue marbles. I wouldn't say that it's not possible for Jimmy to have blue marbles too. And in fact, in the same post, I stick up for some of the men that I have met through POF and said that they WERE gentlemen (and I meant that they have courted me), so keep reading. Read my original post a couple of times if you need to.
Edited to add: I see where the misunderstanding comes from. I said that "there will be a bunch of guys" to denote a group of guys in the world, but not EVERY courting guy in the world, but you probably didn't see that part, and then you skipped out the middle of my sentence to form the idea that because they court, they won't be here, but I meant that because those guys (the bunch, or some of the guys that court) will be in committed relationship and because they are in committed relationships, most of them won't be on a dating site. I will use shorter sentences in the future. That may help. But anyway, to get offended is silly. If we all knew what we were doing, we wouldn't be here (as in this dating forum). A little humility about these things is a good thing. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/10/2008 1:52:54 PM |
Yeah, sometimes women court men, but I think as a rule it is the guys that do it if they want the woman.
Why would any man want to be in a relationship where he isn't desired equally?
Why would any woman want to be in a relationship where she doesn't want to be with her man just as much as vice versa?
Both are selling themself short. The guy should be with a woman who wants him and the woman should be with a guy she wants. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/10/2008 1:58:24 PM | Yes, they do behave quite differently. For instance, in real life a man would never even think about saying some of the things men attempt to say to me here. Most would never call me "babe", the first time they talk to me. Most wouldn't even glance up and talk, because most are very shy. They sure look when they think I'm not looking, though, hehe. ;) The ones that attempt to actually start communicating, usually get me to communicate back, and they're never rude to me, whatsoever. If they were, I'd walk away, quickly!
Anyway, yes, apparantly, most men who attempt to connect for real, on the internet, don't expect one thing out of the woman, except her company. Those who are just out for sex, expect you to drive to meet them, and expect equal everything (you know, you pay for your meal, you use your gas, etc.) Point blank, if they met you on the street, and invited you out, they wouldn't do that. And, if they do...lose them, fast. They're no gentleman, obviously!
The internet, apparantly, gives many men a way that they DON'T have to deal with reality! Courting is the only way to go, in the real world, though! Those who don't, don't get very far with any woman, unless she's out for just a quick lay. Otherwise, as a man, you don't seem special to the lady (you know...the one on the receiving end?)
However, is real courting dead? NO WAY! I can't tell you how many REAL guys there are out there. So, I know it's not dead. It's just the internet that brings out 'the losers' in droves. These are the ones that depend on some 'male' guru to tell them, "Be an a**hole and women will chase you!" LOL Then, when they don't end up with the lady, they get ticked that she doesn't respond to him, hehe. And, believe it or not, these guys actually believe the stuff they're fed by these idiots. PLEASE, spare me! Some of these fellas need to grow up and stop acting like children. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/10/2008 2:17:37 PM |
So if you are offended that I would suggest that the only reason you are here is because you don't court well, don't worry, I am quite open to the idea that something else could be wrong with you instead! And by the way, yes I am here too, and I could have several flaws that keep me from being in a serious committed relationship.
AGAIN, you imply that because we are still on POF (or still looking), that somehow we are flawed. I just don't agree with that. Just because we haven't found "the one" yet, doesn't mean that we possess defects. I don't equate making wise choices and preventing past mistakes, with being flawed. IMO, if anything, it makes us better people and more capable of having healthy, serious, & committed relationships once we DO find "the one".
And in fact, in the same post, I stick up for some of the men that I have met through POF and said that they WERE gentlemen (and I meant that they have courted me)
So, was it THEIR lack of courting skills or YOUR flaws that prevented you from acheiving a serious committed relationship?? 
Seriously though, your wording in your previous post, lumped ALL men on POF under one heading. Had you have expanded and included, smelly, angry, fat, inflexible, racist, etc., etc., my response would have been different. Oh, and for the record, I don't think it's possible to be TOO TIDY. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/10/2008 3:35:51 PM |
(Msg 119) …..there are going to be a bunch of guys who would be all for courting, but since they are good at that, they are in successful committed relationships and wouldn't be on this site.
I have been in a relationship for twelve (12) years now and I can assure you I am not the courting type. The thrill, the excitement, the showing of appreciation happens AFTER the relationship starts. Why would I do all the “good stuff” with someone I don’t know? It doesn’t make any sense.
As I mentioned in msg 25,
…….. there's nothing to be "won". In the days of courting, should the man be lucky enough to win the lady's hand, he was relatively sure the lady would be permanently by his side. Today, half the marriages are temporary.
The prize, the goal, the purpose of courting no longer applies. Why would one court? Why would one expect another to court unless, of course, it’s their intention to use the person.
(Msg 121) They aren`t willing to do anything in return. Nothing. Don`t say they aren`t like that because there are. And there are a ton of women that accomodate it,in exchange for a few morsels of kindness and some sex. And the minute that they find a sweet young thang for a night of unbridled passion, what do you think they are going to do?
Ah, yes. Unbridled passion. If one offered unbridled passion their partner would not be seeking it elsewhere and you explained why I’m correct when you wrote,
What I am saying is, that I am just accepting that a lot of men in general only want to be with a woman for what he can get out of it, sex, a backrub, ego boosts, something pretty to play with,financial security, a comfy lifestyle, his laundry done and his food cooked and his errands run. Get real, this is what it is.
If that were true then men wouldn’t have affairs. Their mistress/one night stand is not going to offer the man financial security, nor do his laundry, nor cook him dinner nor give him back rubs nor……..
So, what is the mistress/ONS offering? This is not a trick question. 
If more folks spent less time doing laundry and cooking and vacuuming and dishes and errands and god-knows-what maybe, just maybe, things might be different. Have you ever known or heard or read about a philandering husband say the reason he strayed was because the sweet, young thang vacuumed her carpets regularly? Or he just couldn’t resist her cooking? Or when it came to laundry she was the queen of wine stain removal on shirts?
Let’s just all get real as to what alot of men want. They want sex with no hassle or work.
Well, of course, the same way one wouldn’t want to plead every night for dinner or negotiate every week regarding who is doing the laundry. There is no mystery here. Why do men treat their mistresses better than their wives? What are the mistresses doing that the wives are not? Again, these are not trick questions (pardon the pun). (Just to keep the record straight I do not have a mistress.)
I would Never ask a man to open my jar for me, wouldn`t want to interrupt his ball game viewing and have him get ticked off, while I am cooking his dinner. That has been what my reality is.
Then you are choosing men who don’t appreciate you.
(Msg 123) . if someone doesnt court you to win you over in the 1st place, how will they act once they've already won you? will they act like u matter then??
As I noted in msg 25,
….it's more important, today, to show appreciation after the lady has decided I'm the right one as opposed to trying to convince her I might be.
(Msg 126) Simply stating that good courting skills will lead to success in relationships does not mean that other things can't go wrong, but you can't deny that it will help, all other things being equal, so it stands to reason that a lot of the people in the courting group will already be coupled up, and their opinions not reflected in this particular dating singles forum.
There’s something, I think, some folks may be overlooking. They’re all seeking the great courting guy but why is he single if he is such a great courting guy? Besides the things you mentioned in your post I’m willing to bet every player was considered a great courting guy. And why not? Great courting skills are all that’s needed to get that ONS.
I’m not saying all great courters are players but I doubt there are many poor courters who are players. Just a point to ponder.
(Msg 128) Courting is the only way to go, in the real world, though! Those who don't, don't get very far with any woman, unless she's out for just a quick lay.
Not in my case. The lady I met 12 years ago was interested in more than roses and chocolates and opening doors. Visiting my home, staying the weekend, seeing how I live on a day to day basis.....those are the things serious people are interested in.
When in a relationship what will matter more; the ability to pay for an expensive dinner or the ability to prepare one? Picking up a bouquet of flowers on the way home or picking up the vacuum once home? Stopping on the way home for a box of chocolates or stopping for a bag of groceries?
However, is real courting dead? NO WAY! I can't tell you how many REAL guys there are out there. So, I know it's not dead. It's just the internet that brings out 'the losers' in droves. These are the ones that depend on some 'male' guru to tell them, "Be an a**hole and women will chase you!"…………………. Some of these fellas need to grow up and stop acting like children.
It’s not a matter of acting like an a**hole and it’s certainly not a case of acting like children. In many cases that would describe courting, the high school ritual of trying to attract the attention of a female.
When two mature adults (mature being the key word) are interested in each other not only do they find many courting practices superficial but they can raise red flags. Does the person really believe they’re that special? Why would a guy lavish attention on someone he barely knows? Why would he treat her like a princess? Why is he trying so hard to sweep her off her feet unless……..
Chat with those who have run into players. They’ll be able to tell you all kinds of great courting stories. | |
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zeeba
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Joined: 8/31/2008
Msg: 131 | |
| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/10/2008 4:02:42 PM |
When two mature adults (mature being the key word) are interested in each other not only do they find many courting practices superficial but they can raise red flags. Does the person really believe they’re that special? Why would a guy lavish attention on someone he barely knows? Why would he treat her like a princess? Why is he trying so hard to sweep her off her feet unless……..
This is a great quote. Obviously, it isn't true for everyone...but the biggest errors I ever made in dating thus far were in "falling" for these kinds of practices. It's easy to be dazzled by a barrage of compliments from someone you just met, particularly if you have low self-esteem! But you learn.
I am now much more interested in seeing if the other person and I do have that chemistry from the start, and can give and take in conversations. I have confessed in other threads -- I do like to flirt and tease quite a bit, but I will only do it when I see that the man is receptive and gets a kick out of it. I like that "courting", very much! | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/10/2008 6:29:46 PM | This "courting" should be mutual.
Think about it.
Women want to be courted. Very few men want to court. The ones who do are in high demand.
If you want that courting male remember other women will want him too. He'll pick the woman that shows him interest or courts him. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/10/2008 6:42:36 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^^I can`t believe I am doing this but I totally agree with you John Duke.
That is the wisest thing you have said. It all comes down to treating eachother mutually well, and keeping it balanced. But that is very hard to find. Usually the givers
attract the takers, and it goes both ways men and women. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/10/2008 6:44:48 PM | Lord, seems tangents are rampart regarding the definition of "courting."
When I "court" a woman, it's not about the price of the gift or experience, it's about the intention behind our time shared togather.
It's the gestures I exhibit to her. The tone of my voice - sincerity. Eye contact when she is expressing her wishes. Holding doors. Holding hands. Escorting her anywhere, with her comfort in mind. Yes, mutual concern is paramount.
Point being, action speaks LOUDER than words, or money, any day of the week!
I truely don't believe that "courting" has a road map.
It's simply an expressed appreciation for her individuality and, perhaps more importantly, her femininity.
Reciprocation makes for a once in a lifetime experience. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/10/2008 7:34:15 PM | | Already been threaded to death................ NEXT! | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/10/2008 7:44:36 PM | Bring on the courtship!!!
However seems to me the major percentage of the guys in my town or let me rephrase -at least those on these dating sites, are entitled and must be gifted LOVE MASTERS with 10.5 inch endowments because most of them just wanna get in, get wet and get out. Not with this chickie I am afraid!!!
I get so many messages everyday and it's always the same crap just a different pile.
(sigh). | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/11/2008 8:53:06 AM |
And Fellas, if you are married and are on this site, take a long hard look, you're on here because your wife doesn't want you and chances are better than even that I won't either, so keep on truckin.
Ummm...ottawagirlie, according to the above excerpt from your profile, aren't YOU technically still married?? Perhaps the men who are contacting you see this as an opportunity for a rebound relationship (quick, easy sex). My experience with separated women (which I refuse to get involved with anymore) was that they were trying to transition quickly from one man to another and were willing to "be physical" early in the interaction in order to make themselves feel wanted & desired.
Now, I'm certainly not the type to prey on these types of women and I'm NOT saying that YOU are that type - your profile makes it pretty clear that you aren't. I'm saying that many men feel that separated women are eager to please so, maybe that's why you're getting so many emails from the types of men that you are. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/11/2008 1:45:28 PM | | My boyfriend pursued me from the beginning and he's still romantic, kissing my hand or my forehead. To me the little things are courting. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/11/2008 2:11:11 PM |
Why would any man want to be in a relationship where he isn't desired equally?
DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! LADIES AND GENTLEMEN WE HAVE A WINNER!!! The winner of the endless streams of forum threads which go something like:
1. Why are guys commitment-phobic?
2. Why do men like Asian women? Is it because they are placid and submissive?
3. If there are so many men who aren't getting married (to women), why is it I have such difficulty finding just one?
4. Why do guys send me emails and after I answer, he stops emailing me?
5. And on and on ad nauseum. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/11/2008 3:20:42 PM |
If I have my hands full with groceries, I applaud the woman that will "hold" the door open for me to pass through...... I applaud the woman that will give up her seat in public transportation for an "older" man that can barely stand........
Am I missing something? What's the above has to do with courting? I see it as just being polite and considerate of another person. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/11/2008 3:34:48 PM | ismene1,
I definately would like to be courted. However this site really confuses me. When I first joined I thought this was going to be easy. Not so. I just don't get it. What is everyone looking for REALLY? | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/12/2008 10:33:04 AM |
ismene1,
I definately would like to be courted. However this site really confuses me. When I first joined I thought this was going to be easy. Not so. I just don't get it. What is everyone looking for REALLY?
LOL, don't ask me.....I joined about the same time you did. I know nothing....
It's a good question though. What is everyone really looking for?  | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/12/2008 10:49:31 AM |
It's a good question though. What is everyone really looking for?
I can only speak for myself, but I'm looking for someone to share my life with. You know, a long term relationship with a woman who has at least some of her wits about her and hasn't been convicted of anything higher than a misdemeanor... Surprisingly, not that easy to find.
Oh, I'm also looking for that damn black sock that went missing in the laundry about 2 weeks ago. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/12/2008 11:26:41 AM | | Condescending negative remarks about women when you are trying to find a woman to share "your" life with instead of speaking about building a life together, isn`t a very good start. But I`m sure I`m preaching to the choir. | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/12/2008 11:30:54 AM |
Condescending negative remarks about women when you are trying to find a woman to share "your" life with instead of speaking about building a life together, isn`t a very good start.
But I`m sure I`m preaching to the choir.
In all likelihood.  | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/12/2008 6:01:22 PM |
(Msg 145) Condescending negative remarks about women when you are trying to find a woman to share "your" life with instead of speaking about building a life together, isn`t a very good start.
YES! Building a life together! That's what it's all about.
So often I hear about "sharing" or "fitting in" when it's all about starting a new life.
Of course, Desert wildflower and I usually do agree on things. (cough, cough) | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/12/2008 6:11:09 PM | I am having a deja vu? Isn't there another thread with the exact same topic or it is this one?
No courting is not dead. Not when a woman is willing to invest the time and money to make a man feel he is special to her: buy him a sports car, a gold watch, pick up the bill in expensive resturants, etc etc. These noble gestures are proper courting a man for the 2008 woman!
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/12/2008 6:25:57 PM | Whoa...since you're having to disagree with a lot of folks, I won't add to the poor ladies trying to tell you reality, hehe. That explains your presence here. 
However, I will tell you something, regarding this part:
It’s not a matter of acting like an a**hole and it’s certainly not a case of acting like children. In many cases that would describe courting, the high school ritual of trying to attract the attention of a female.
When two mature adults (mature being the key word) are interested in each other not only do they find many courting practices superficial but they can raise red flags. Does the person really believe they’re that special? Why would a guy lavish attention on someone he barely knows? Why would he treat her like a princess? Why is he trying so hard to sweep her off her feet unless...
If, you choose to listen, of course. Naturally, I suspect you're so busy telling everyone how 'successful' your relationships turn out, because you don't do anything in the beginning of the relationship to hear, but I suspect it's highly unlikely!
You see, if you were that successful, you wouldn't be here for as long as you have been.
Needless to say, in regards to many women I've spoken to, on the subject (and believe me, I speak to multitudes more than you could even hope to speak to, since I write about the subject of dating), that the majority of women ENJOY being wooed by men.
Does that mean he will continue to do so? No, and there are no guarantees he will...or she will continue to be the way they are in the beginning, because, as you know, most everyone puts on their best show, in the beginning.
And, most women are intelligent enough to be quite aware of this. ;) However, many men turn out to be quite romantic, and many are like that normally. So, if you choose not to be, that is your choice. Of course, as I said, it explains why you're still here. 
Maybe you should try being more of a gentleman in the beginning and you wouldn't still be here, then...instead of telling everyone what 'allegedly' WORKS for you, hehe. As I said, if it really worked, you wouldn't still be here!  | |
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| Is courting dead?
Posted: 9/12/2008 6:29:45 PM | Hey, Nick...maybe it's proper courting to be with someone like you. I'm glad I'm not your intended gf, hehe | |
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