| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/5/2008 2:35:42 PM | I have been on both sides of the fence was made redundant and claimed benefit but only for a short time untill i managed to secure another job what winds me up is there are people out there who just are not willing to get of there arses and work and prefer to sit on there backsides watching telly.
I am a single parent and work for a living i pay my taxes and don't receive any benefits | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/5/2008 2:40:53 PM | Believe me i would love to get an accountant that will put me on "minimum" wage
Unless I'm very mistaken you get the same tax free allowance as anyone else, in similar circumstances. You then pay the same basic tax as someone on minimum wage for the first part of your salary, and a a slightly increased rate for the remainder. As an overall percentage of your gross income your tax won't be that much different from "minimum wage".
Mr(s)/Ms "minimum wage" then has to spend every penny they earn just to cover basic essentials, shelter,heating and food, most of which they pay more tax on. Can't be bothered working out the likely monthly salary that generates a £2K tax bill, but doubt you need to spend it all. Lots of "tax efficient" savings vehicles out there for the rest.
And yes there is something wrong, how we measure "added value". Don't grudge you or anyone else a living, but do question how we measure (and reward) different contributions.
I've worked in social care for years, many basic grade workers rely on some benefits even after a 39 hour week.
Long time ago I worked in NHS. During strike in early eighties, we used porters as our main weapon. We could put them out on strike , they were the lowest paid workers so the rest of us did not need to chip in much to cover their wages; without them the Hospital ground to a halt.
There is plenty of research to show that the tax system in this country is neither progressive nor redistributive. (If you really want sources go read any introductory sociology book) The greatest burden falling on those with earnings at or below the national average.
Just possible, is it not, that if some of your equally high earning counterparts in less closely scrutinised industries paid their share, your's could be reduced. | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/5/2008 2:54:42 PM |
Thank you for shedding light on this, very nice of you.
I am going to give a detailed response in a few, just getting the figures for two salary brackets. :)
You provoked this debate.........
Yet you've had the least input......
You asked for details i gave......
You never respond to what you ask for i dont get it | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:09:50 PM | | Ok in reply to that again. I have worked for the last 20 years and 3 weeks ago I had an accident at work and this week my boss has sacked me for being off!!! So does that make me a scrounger too as I am now getting incapacity benefit and industrial injuries benefit????? Or is this just a rules for some but not for others whinge?? Until my accident I worked 60 hours a week and paid MORE bloody tax than you but do you hear me whinging and having a go at (some) of the respectable ladies on here??? No. I would avise you keep your opinions to yourself!!! | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:23:45 PM |
I am a single parent and work for a living i pay my taxes and don't receive any benefits
Don't you get working family tax credit or child tax credit? If you don't, then claim for them!
I've been on both sides of the fence, I've been employed by the same employer for 25 years but also taken an unpaid career break. I've struggled on benefits in that time (£120 for two of us) and it's bloody hard.
Now I'm back earning my wage and it's bloody lovely having money in my pocket.
Now, on to the soapbox again: OP whit collar crime and tax evasion cast far, far more than the pittance paid to those on benefits. I was reading recently of two tobacco smuggling busts that had a combined tax loss of £99,ooo. That's just the tip of the iceberg. That would keep a lot of people on benefits for a considerable length of time. Then consider VAT fraud, income tax fraud, company tax fraud, etc and the bigger picture starts to emerge.
Still, why pick on business men that are 'creating jobs' when there is some poor soul at the bottom of the pile that we can kick. | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:31:45 PM | You never respond to what you ask for i dont get it
Im sorry,
dont you worry though,
Im just working at the same time so i have not time to respond properly,(yes working at this time, no rest for the wicked)
If you give me a couple of hours i am going to read through and respond In Detail to everything addressed to me or that i have missed. | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/5/2008 4:18:37 PM |
Im sorry
And so you should be ta very muchly
dont you worry though,
Oh i'm not but thanx for your concern
Im just working at the same time so i have not time to respond properly,(yes working at this time, no rest for the wicked)
Well ya gotta make that 2 grand for mr tax man, must be hard on wifey working such long hours
If you give me a couple of hours i am going to read through and respond In Detail to everything addressed to me or that i have missed
You've missed alot as it goes.........look how many pages and check how many times you have responded.... So crack on yeh......
Lets hope you dont wear yourself out doing all the research etc cause god forbid you exhaust yourself then have to go sick and god forbid risk your job and have to go on those benefits and to sweep streets | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/6/2008 12:26:29 AM | Iv really tried to stay away from this thread because it makes me so cross when ppl judge and assume all of us on benefits want to be on them and sit around smoking and drinking while our kids run riot!!
I know I would be better off working, and we all know that too!! We only have to go and see the lone parent advisor/assistant to know that much!! I have to go to the jobcentre every 6 months just for them to tell me this, but ill put too you the same as i do to them Who is going to give me a job where i work between 9.30 and 2.30 weekdays and is close enough for me to walk too?? On top of that the job needs to allow me 6 weeks holiday in the summer and every half term off too. Oh and while im thinking about it where is my wages coming from while im of caring after my kids during non term time??
My twins are 6 yrs old and I have worked since i was 13 so by me taking time of to be a mum (which is a damn hard job in itself) I feel absolutley no guilt!!! I volunteer at the school helping out with the kids as a classroom assistant so I dont feel the need to get out there and sweep streets as you so kindly put it too us.
Like chuffing bint id love for you to start commenting on why you feel so hard done by and why its ok for you to generalise everyones situation as the same!! there are ppl who faily allocate funds to ppl in the situation im in and as far as im aware dont just give it to anyone!! I do belive that there are frauds but then if you know one thats what the phones for!! | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/6/2008 1:21:06 AM |
I would say I have after that about £5 a week that I would call disposible income....
Well,with your spinal injury it's not like you're gonna be going out dancing is it.
yeah thanks that really helped a lot  | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/6/2008 1:25:21 AM | This guy seems like he's one of Thatcher's "I'm alright Jack" generation...
..or maybe he wants to be a radio "shock jock", or perhaps a wind-up merchant.
People earning as much as you'd need to be to be paying that amount in tax (assuming they don't avoid paying it) are normally so well-off they don't have any opinion about people on benefits. The fact that the OP does is rather baffling.
So what would happen when all the benefits had been cut then OP? Would society be better do you think, or much, much worse? | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/6/2008 1:59:57 AM |
Thanks for the comment however, the point of the thread was to point out the fact that some people work hard day, and some sit at home doing nothing living rather comfortably, and its because of the benefit system that spoils people and make a lot of people rather lazy or should i say clever as it appears a better deal if someone wants the easy way out.
I have seen a lot of people detail how much less income support is compared to the average wage, however, somehow, it still appears a lot of people on inc support, have more expendable income that someone who is working full time paying basic bills and everything else, What i would be great is if someone on full income support could shed some light on this one as most people who have commented have been quick to say they dont actually get benefits or have not disclosed
A couple of points in reply:
1) There is only one group of claimants that I would consider to be close to "comfortable" and that is the most severely disabled single people, or couples where both are severely disabled. However, this doesn't take into account the fact that severely disabled people often have considerable additional costs in life as a result of that disability and, as such, they wouldn't usually refer to themselves as comfortable. I don't think any other group of claimant would even contemplate using the word 'comfortable'.
Some of these disabled people would like to work (and in fact many do) but at the moment, the UK's 'flexible labour market' and difficulties enforcing rights given by the disability discrimination act means that it is extremely difficult for some of those to find and stay in work.
And of course, there are those disabled poeple for whom work is a literall impossibility.
2) The "expendable income" (I called it 'disposable' income) point is, for a change, quite valid.
The reason why it can appear that people on benefit have the same disposable income as those on higher earnings is because of the simple fact that people live according to thier means. Someone who earns a lot of money will tend to have a mortgage or a more expensive private rented property; they might have high levels of affordable debt via credit cards; they might buy £500 suits rather than shop in charity shops; they might buy a new TV or washing machine rather than go without or rely on donations or loans from friends; they might holiday abroad rather than take no holiday or have a weekend at Butlins; they might dine at restaurants and take london theatre trips rather have no social life at all.
If you have more money, you spend more money - and after this expenditure, you have no more money in your pocket than someone who is considerably worse off but who must go without the luxuries, and even some basics, to have that money in thier pockets.
Of course the downside, for those well-off people, is that if they face a life crisis such as redundancy (which is becoming increasingly likely) or a long-term illness then you have a mountain of expenditure that you can't keep up with and considerable debt problems result. At that time, you will be sat in a benefit or debt advisers office angrily seeking government assistance and questioning why your jobseekers allowance of £60.50 a week is all you get. | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/6/2008 3:55:16 AM | This must be the most well fed troll in existence.
Does anybody really think fortune favours bold really gives a toss about the benefit system? Thank god for the weirdness from Paris as it was the highlight of the thread!  | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/6/2008 5:43:29 AM | I don't see it as feeding a troll; I see it as educating the ignorant.
Although I must admit that since the op hasn't come back with anything particulary strong - or relevant, nor has he provided the slightest ounce of evidence to back up what he says (becuase there is none), it is beginning to get somewhat tedious. | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/6/2008 7:38:27 AM | I gotta say it's fascinating and slightly depressing to watch the uninformed at work... so that's what democracy has become is it, rule by jerking knee. All I will say is I currently work with benefit claimants and I've worked with company directors. The company directors were the second biggest thieves I've ever dealt with, the first were political types; they have no qualms about spending *millions* to sort them and their friends out and they look out for each other; you have know idea how much you, the shareholders of UK PLC, just aren't being told.
My only concern about the benefit claimants I work with is that they seem to have zero aspirations and an inbuilt assumption that people with loads of 'O' levels are better than them, when in fact they are easily smarter than people I went to Uni with and waaaay better with people. And I suspect they're going to pass that low self esteem onto their kids. That's what I'd get in there and change; not that you *must* get a decent job / career, cos they want that anyway, but that you *can*.
Oh and I'd also adjust the crippling HB tail off so that people can afford to take on lower paid jobs without getting their HB and CTB taken off them almost immediately. It's a wise investment to get people back on the ladder and it'd cost pennies.
In case you're interested we do have immigrant families getting priority housing, but 'priority housing' is a polite euphemism for 'house sitting there empty cos it's such a craphole no-one else will have it.' And they're looking after them and doing them up. They're saving us a fortune in void management, and when they move on they'll leave behind a house in far better nick than when they took it on. | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/6/2008 2:07:59 PM | If tax is at 22% that would put the op earning around 10k a month, and is jealous of someone in a 4 bedroomed 3 story house but he doesn't say its a council house or even that she's on the dole it could be inherited and have a private income, he just sounds a little envious because someone is doing less and appears to have more. How sad, better to spend your time enjoying what you have rather than envying what others others have. What percentage of your tax is spent on the dole not including sick or disabled? Unless you envy them too? Have you researched it? Do you even care or would you rather make the unemployed the scapegoats for your dissatisfaction rather than the people who are taxing you so much? Much easier to attack the weak though isn't it?
Maybe these questions have been answered in previous posts ( there are enough of them). God forbid that you ever need help and have to go cap in hand to govt for help. Couldn't happen? Recessions/depressions never happen again?
Rather than castigating everyone in that position you should castigate the ones you actually know the truth about. Keep your hatred personal not general else you are perceived to be just another wealthy bigoted abuser of the less well off. Does wealth really beget such envy? I wouldn't know as I'm far too lazy to amass anything remotely resembling wealth. | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/7/2008 1:35:20 AM | i think they should take some ppl out ov high paid jobs and force them to stay at home on benifits and raise 1,2,3 or more kids and then they can see how very un easy it is. | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/7/2008 4:44:42 AM | Hi, you are obviously earning a good wage judging from your tax bill. I am a single mum, a student and I only get a little help from the government as the bursary I get i have to live on as it is counted as an income so once i have taken care of my £650 a month rent that leaves me with pittence to live on and i have bills to pay from it. If i was to find a partner my bursary would be cut and he would be footing the bill for my fees. So unless he is willing to help with this and support my 15 year old daughter then please I am better off surely. Students on bursaries struggle endessly and so do students doing over stuff so how about instead of bins help those that are trying to help themselves. There are alot of single mums that work or study to provide the best way they can.
thats all | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/7/2008 12:53:39 PM | | In reference to immigrants not getting priority housing I had a friend that was being made homeless as his mother was moving to a smaler house and two years after his application he was still waiting and sleeping on his mothers sofa. In the meantime there were 5 Polish immigrants started work at the council with him waliked straight into houses. Eventually he wrote to his MP and complained and lo and behold 3 months later hes got a flat. | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/7/2008 1:18:22 PM | | A girl at work has a 'friend' who is moving to cornwall with her child and partner. Then claiming they have split up so she can get accomodation. Of course he will then be moving in with her on the QT of course!!! boils my blood, I'm all for the welfare state for those who need it but it is getting milked by deadbeat lowlifes constantly!!!! | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/8/2008 3:43:05 AM | Lillian
but ill put too you the same as i do to them Who is going to give me a job where i work between 9.30 and 2.30 weekdays and is close enough for me to walk too?? On top of that the job needs to allow me 6 weeks holiday in the summer and every half term off too. Oh and while im thinking about it where is my wages coming from while im of caring after my kids during non term time??
LOL you dont ask much.
Try work with children? Nursery nurse? Teaching assistant? A head master?
Try this link www.childcarecareers.gov.uk | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/8/2008 4:06:17 AM | a head master hahahahaha
i volunteer in the school as a teaching assistant already and jobs of that kind are very rare to come across (esspecially without qualifications) same as working in a nursery need to have certificates etc.
And then If I go back to college i have to pay childcare for after school etc, so ill be even worse off!!
good thinking, though i think ill just stick with ruling the world when the kids ar over 18 and can support me | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/8/2008 4:25:34 AM | It may be of interest to some to note that the government, and consequently the tax payer is diddled out of substantially more in unpaid tax from the business sector than the welfare layabouts/cheats.
But people are fine with that, because its not publicised.
But then, thats not something you will find in the Daily Mail, so why would people be bothered. | |
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| Government should Cut All Benefits Immediately.
Posted: 9/8/2008 4:38:48 AM | And then If I go back to college i have to pay childcare for after school etc, so ill be even worse off!!
lillian you should have a look a going to college as i did and they paid for my sons out (after)of school care for me. i did as a part time student and didnt come off benefits. i got myself a hnd | |
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