| Police target, raid political opponents in Minnesota
Posted: 9/3/2008 9:13:54 AM | dmotz
The protesters were self described ANARCHISTS...causing trouble. If they had come in a peaceful protest they would have been left alone...those idiots on the left...need to learn to tell the damn truth and get a life!
In case you haven't been paying attention, the police raids took place on Friday and Saturday, before the convention opened and before anybody protested at the convention, peacefully or otherwise.
Tell me again "the damn truth" about being left alone? I must have missed something there.
Police raid RNC protest sites in Twin Cities:
http://www.startribune.com/politics/27695244.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUs | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 11:47:46 AM |
oneblend--- Why not be a backbone for your brothers and sisters out there who're are protesting for your rights?
Sorry sweet cheeks- they aren't doing anything for me, especially my rights.
They can act like fools and protest all they want, doesn't bother me at all. Protesters all across the country protested EVERYDAY against Viet Nam. Not 1 soldier came home one day early because of the protests. People can protest and they have that right, there are limits.
When they start destroying property and clashing with police they are going to get hurt and that doesn't bother me either. Protesting does not give you carte blanche to go ANYWHERE you want and do anything
First of all, there is nobody here called sweet cheeks.
Secondly, the people going out into the streets are ensuring your rights that your rights continue to be in place.
Finally, protesting did most certainly bring the conflict in Viet Nam to a close sooner than would have happened otherwise. If you don't remember that (guess you were not serving) then ask a few vets. Many are still bitter about the protesters for not letting them prove that the "war" was won. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 12:03:26 PM | Flower Girl” Gets Pepper Sprayed in the Face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyvsc1ktgJE
I suppose this is the democracy they are supposed to be spreading.. laughable and chilling at the same time... | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 12:16:06 PM | Why are the protestors so disorderly?
Exercise your freedom of speech from where you are allowed to speak. If your message has merit, it will be heard from there.
If the only way it will be heard is for you to create enough havoc to get police attention, and it gets media attention only because of the police attention, then perhaps your message has no real merit.
The police are there BECAUSE you won't stay where you ought, not to shut you up.
Freedom comes with responsibility. Disorderly protest is abuse of your freedom of speech. You are arrested for that abuse, not for your message. The police are not abusing your freedom they are protecting the peace. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 12:55:09 PM |
Why are the protestors so disorderly?
Exercise your freedom of speech from where you are allowed to speak. If your message has merit, it will be heard from there.
If the only way it will be heard is for you to create enough havoc to get police attention, and it gets media attention only because of the police attention, then perhaps your message has no real merit.
The police are there BECAUSE you won't stay where you ought, not to shut you up.
Freedom comes with responsibility. Disorderly protest is abuse of your freedom of speech. You are arrested for that abuse, not for your message. The police are not abusing your freedom they are protecting the peace.
Wow! You still are not getting it!
I personally think it is illegal to create "Free Speech" zones. Isnt all of the USA supposed to be a free speech zone? Isnt this the freedon that the troops are supposed to be over there fighting to protect?
Oh, what they really mean is an area to cage you in so that they do not have to listen to you. If these FSZ were near the convention that would be one thing. But they are not. It is laughable.
Most of the protestors are not in any way out of control. A lot of the arrests came before the protests even began. Basically, what is going on is it has become illegal to protest, even peacably!
They are arresting the journalists who are trying to cover what is going on. The media in a large way are ignoring that this is happening.
Then we can all pat ourselves on the back and pretend we are free. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 12:56:08 PM | mfreemo ,, This is just another example of how the police and the dept of natural resources do things. the rainbow " the REAL rainbow" Have gathered in national forest to celebrate the summer solstice for over forty years and are invaded , harrassed , and arrested for no reason EVERY YEAR.
These people ARE PEACE ! The do nothing but thank GOD for the planet earth and LIFE.
Please explain why you think we need POLICE at these gatherings where NO ONE is even talking about ANYTHING except LOVE AND PEACE.
THERE IS NO FREEDOM IN AMERICA.!!!!
This year the authorities shot rubber bullits into KIDDY VILLAGE where the children stay and play because the people wouldn't let them around their children..
 I pray for love , life and peace for ALL.. even your cowardly BUTT. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 1:15:18 PM | No, the entire USA is not a free speech zone.
You do not have the right to come into my house and stand on your soapbox.
You do not have the right to come into my business and stand on your soapbox.
You should not have the right to come to my child's birthday party in the public park and stand on your soapbox. You can set up your soapbox in the park, but to invade my party is not your right.
The RNC is their party and they have a right to have it. You have a right to stand in free speech zones and go for it. That they have to set up free speech zones shows that the demonstrators have no idea of where they can stand without help. That you think you have the right to disrupt someone's party shows you take no resposibility for your freedom of speech. | |
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| Police target citizens in Colorado
Posted: 9/3/2008 1:35:41 PM | These kinds of policed state antics are what breeds mayhem. At some point it is justifiable for human beings to retaliate.
QFT.
he protesters were self described ANARCHISTS...causing trouble. If they had come in a peaceful protest they would have been left alone...those idiots on the left...need to learn to tell the damn truth and get a life!
They can start by NOT calling themselves anarchists. I've never understood why there's a slice of hardcore leftists (who advocate the use of force to get others to participate in their system) that insist on misusing the term. They're probably all police informers and agent provacatuers. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 1:42:11 PM | Are you a TFM, or just illiterate?
The police raids took place in private homes, using greatly excessive force, days before the convention began. With few exceptions, the raids and arrests did not result in even trumped-up criminal charges being filed. If the arrests and raids were justified, there would be charges.
Police have been arresting and brutalizing journalists attempting to cover the "riot". This isn't about controlling public safety, this is about controlling the message.
Freely associating with anarchists is legal. Being an anarchist is legal.
What do you bet the "violent anarchists" turn out to be on the FBI's COINTEL payroll? | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 2:35:27 PM | valerieop
I didn't say being an anarchist was illegal. I have faith that they were not arrested becasue they were anarchists, but because of their actions. (I could be wrong. )
Can you tell me some of the planks of an Anarchist's platform? What are anarchists fighting for? | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 3:34:13 PM | The people who were arrested were not anarchists, or not all of them. There were no actions. Many were at home minding their own business.
Amy Goodman is not an anarchist. She is a very respected journalist.
They are silencing the message.
Lawyers are currently trying to get an injunction against the police at the moment to try to stop them from taking cameras and cell phones used to record the actions of the police. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 3:42:07 PM | Anarchism has a long history and there are many types of anarchism. Some anarchists are pacifists. If you're really interested in learning more about anarchism you could start by looking it up in wikipedia. We tend to think of anarchists as the hotheaded, usually young, people who disrupt events, sometimes with violence, but they're a tiny fringe minority. The anarchists I know are compassionate thinkers who believe that people are capable of working together without a heavy handed government telling them how to think, live, consume, etc.
A lot of it comes down to whether you think people can't be decent unless they have a lot of rules to guide them, or you believe that people will figure it out for themselves if they don't have too much imposed on them. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 4:04:01 PM | http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/01/peaceful_protest_marred_by_sma.html?hpid=topnews
The police estimated that between 5,000 and 8,000 people joined the rally, which ended outside the Xcel Center and resulted in 56 arrests.
"The antiwar demonstration was largely peaceful, but a small group of anarchists smashed windows and set a dumpster on fire en route."
"There was a splinter group that came here to cause trouble," said Tom Walsh, a public information officer for the St. Paul police. "
"Police carried out a series of raids over the weekend, targeting locations where they believed groups were planning attacks on the convention. The RNC Welcoming Committee, a group describing itself as an "anarchist/anti-authoritarian organizing body" that planned to "crash the convention," was among the groups targeted."
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http://www.startribune.com/politics/27695244.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUs
Ramsey County authorities conducted raids across Minneapolis and St. Paul Friday and Saturday as a pre-emptive strike against disruptive protests of the Republican National Convention.
"These acts include tactics to blockade and disable delegate buses, breaching venue security and injuring police officers," Fletcher said. Deputies seized a variety of items that they believed were tools of civil disobedience: a gas mask, bolt cutters, axes, slingshots, homemade "caltrops" for disabling buses, even buckets of urine."
Comments;
"Thank goodness they did..
At first I thought this was excessive. Reading now that one person had bleach thrown in their face, a bus had brick thrown through a window, Cub Scouts frightened by folks rocking their bus, folks dropping sand bags and bricks on a bus and vandals smashing windows, I am happy the police did raid. These aren't protesters exercising free speech. They are sociopaths. Bet they torture small animals too"
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I do believe that most people are decent, no matter which political affiliation, but I don't think EVERYONE is decent. Without rules, and someone enforce them, then hotheads will take over and write their own rules.
Is anyone here really defending these particular anarchist/anti-authoritarians? What they did and were planning was criminal, and dangerous. People could have been hurt or killed. Had it gone unchecked the police and the peaceful demonstrators were at risk. It is the job of the police to prevent this kind of crime when they have the information to prevent it.
This was not about supressing free speech. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 4:16:06 PM | How much do you really trust the police?
I've owned bolt-cutters and axes and used them for perfectly legitimate reasons. My kids were into slingshots for a while. The buckets of urine thing is kinda weird, but then I've lived without plumbing on occasion and had some buckets...
Back in the sixties some of the worst rabblerousers turned out to be undercover feds. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 4:18:04 PM | http://www.alternet.org/rights/97306/as_unlawful_arrests_continue%2C_st._paul_feels_like_a_city_under_siege_for_some_residents_/
As Unlawful Arrests Continue, St. Paul Feels Like a City Under Siege for Some Residents
By Liliana Segura, AlterNet. Posted September 3, 2008.
The comments there offer some further perspectives. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 4:23:31 PM | Part of our Democracy is the right to protest. Our founding fathers protested against unfair representation. The protestors during the Vietnam era certainly did influence the general population, as well as the civil rights protest marches of MLK.
Unfortunately, this is a bit different.
There is also the element that enjoys creating chaos on the street.... for the simple thrill of it. They idealize the protests of the 60's.
But we are not living in the 60's.
The Republician Convention is pretty much a non-event. It pales in comparison with what happened in Denver. 75,000 people showed up... for an acceptance speech? CNN's viewership went through the roof.
This, intriguing though Palin's nomination is, is nothing to write home about.
The protests in the street, the violence, the damage, the fear.... sadly, are being instigated by thrill seekers.
The real protestors, the Indian Movement, the union organizers, the teachers and professors.... are all protesting up on the stage outside as they should be.
You want to complain about police brutality? Sure, there is going to be police brutality. There are thugs and thrill seekers within the police force as well. You are going to have ALL kinds of incidents happening.
But trashing store fronts and throwing things at people at a convention for the losing side... where it ain't gonna make any bit of difference?...... is just plain stupid.
Hey Anarchists.... pay attention to Gandi..... a little man wearing a diaper.... he overthrew the British Empire without having to throw anything? | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 4:26:33 PM |
zabet on 9/3/2008 4  06 PM - I've owned bolt-cutters and axes and used them for perfectly legitimate reasons. My kids were into slingshots for a while. The buckets of urine thing is kinda weird, but then I've lived without plumbing on occasion and had some buckets...
So, is this what you think? They were just peaceful citizens with not intentions of causing a vandalous and violent disruption that might have blown up into a full-scale riot with injuries, property damge and possible deaths? Really? That's what you think? | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 4:42:19 PM |
zabet on 9/3/2008 406 PM - I've owned bolt-cutters and axes and used them for perfectly legitimate reasons. My kids were into slingshots for a while. The buckets of urine thing is kinda weird, but then I've lived without plumbing on occasion and had some buckets...
So, is this what you think? They were just peaceful citizens with not intentions of causing a vandalous and violent disruption that might have blown up into a full-scale riot with injuries, property damge and possible deaths? Really? That's what you think?
It was not urine. It was gray water! The people in question are environmentalists. They use the water from the sink, it goes into a bucket and they use it to flush the toilet.
And it is what was going on. The feds infiltrated some "leftist" groups and are cracking down on the members with no justification.
And these people did nothing wrong. Trying to pretend that you can read what is in their minds and are therefore going to arrest them is INSANE! and it is a fascist police state! | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 4:46:24 PM |
This was not about supressing free speech.
So, they can write it up but cannot allow the press to cover it. If what you claim was going on, then the police should have been allowing the journalists to cover it. It would show just how bad that these protesters were.
But that is not what it happening, is it?
Explain to me how Amy Goodman and her producers deserved to be roughed up and arrested now. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 5:03:37 PM | Stella.
So you are going to stand for them? I will have to concede to you if you are there and know these environmentalists. It's too bad they got confused with the folks that did break windows and cause comotion. I'm sure they will be able to clear this up.
I did watch the arrest of Amy Goodman. I wasn't there. Didn't see what led up to the arrest, or know what was going on behind the police line.
If nothing preceded what happened in the video I would still have to say that I did not see Amy roughed up. I did see her defy the commnds of the officer and try to go past them. I saw cause for them to arrest her. They arrested her in a pretty polite way. Did the assault happen after the video?
The police are just people, too. It is their job to maintain order. It was their job to maintain that line. Amy tried to go through it. What were they supposed to do? | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 6:21:56 PM | Only SOME of those raided, harassed, or arrested were "anarchists". One of the worst examples I've heard of yet is the raid of I-Witness. I-Witness is a group that uses video to protect civil liberties by recording the police at First Amendment Events.
After the 2004 RNC they caught many officers fabricating evidence and committing perjury. Over 400 individuals had their cases dismissed or were acquitted at trial based on video evidence.
Well, on Saturday, August 30th, the house they were staying at in St. Paul was surrounded by 30 cops, and all the occupants were handcuffed while a search was executed. I haven't found anything specifying what they were searching for, but it sure sounds like a low form of intimidation to me. For more info:
http://iwitnessvideo.info/index.html
http://coldsnaplegal.org/
And a 17 year old Buddhist was mistreated by police (including withholding information from and not releasing him into the custody of his parents as regulations say they should have):
http://www.minnesotaindependent.com/6952/youth-in-iconic-rnc-protest-photo-beaten-by-police-according-to-his-mother | |
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| LOONIE protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/3/2008 6:27:25 PM | thats right...and the RNC has the right to
have a peacefull convention..to speak freely
without having extreem loonie leftist throwing human excrement
thrown on them as they come and go . .
how many right wingers showed up in denver(DNC) and pulled that??
answer . . " ZERO "
only the INSANE loonie leftist socailist pull that garbage
...and only Garbage . . .would defent thier actions
under the cloud of "Free speech" . .
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