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| LOONIE protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/4/2008 3:59:33 PM |
only the INSANE loonie leftist socailist pull that garbage
...and only Garbage . . .would defent thier actions
under the cloud of "Free speech" . .
jon1965... apparently you are quite out of touch. Believe whatever big brother tells you too.
On the internet, pretty much everyone has the same "weight". So we comment back and forth. In 3D land though, we are able to pick more carefully those we would converse with. When someone stands so staunchly in their ignorance or is apparently just so out-weighed in the intelligence department it is futile to attempt to carry on an intelligent exchange with them.
So, I have decided to be more selective with who I converse to save myself the grief. Hence, I am done with this exchange with you! | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/4/2008 4:04:04 PM | jelunc said-- Finally, protesting did most certainly bring the conflict in Viet Nam to a close sooner than would have happened otherwise. If you don't remember that (guess you were not serving) then ask a few vets.
I don't need to ask anyone anything. I was in the USAF from 1970-1980 and I saw the idiot protesters out side the main gate. So NO, I won't ask anyone anything.
The Viet Nam war protesting went on for years and it didn't stop the war one day sooner. | |
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| LOONIE protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/4/2008 4:21:14 PM |
only the INSANE loonie leftist socailist pull that garbage
...and only Garbage . . .would defent thier actions
under the cloud of "Free speech" . .
Freedom of speech is a human right, lest I remind you that you are not the only human being on this planet. Since you are seeking a definition, I am including this link for you .. read or have someone read it for you. If you still don't get it, have someone sit down and explain it to you until you comprehend.
http://www.answers.com/topic/freedom-of-speech
Have you actually read the posts from the beginning? It's all been addressed. Must we keep repeating ourselves, over and over again? We think not.
So, I have decided to be more selective with who I converse to save myself the grief. Hence, I am done with this exchange with you!
Agreed! Save your breath. Only those who value their liberties and "human rights" can keep up.
They say there are aliens walking the earth ... I'm taking this seriously now.  | |
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| Police target citizens in Minnesota
Posted: 9/4/2008 4:44:37 PM |
JLTINFL18
... The Viet Nam war protesting went on for years and it didn't stop the war one day sooner.
So you assert, apparently without any knowledge one way or the other.
OK, so you saw protesters outside the main gate of the AFB where you were stationed. If my arithmetic is correct, you were born in 1952 and were a teenage E-2 at the time. I'm guessing you weren't privy to any White House strategy discussions.
A persistent rumor has it that in 1970, after Nixon's invasion of Cambodia and Laos, and after the Kent State and Jackson State killings, J. Edgar Hoover privately told President Nixon that he would be unable to maintain order in the streets as long as Nixon's military adventures continued, and that was the turning point which led to Nixon finally ordering American troops home.
Is that actually true? I don't know, but it's certainly plausible and I hope a historian will eventually answer it definitively. What would Nixon's Indochina policy have been without massive public opposition? If Nixon could have claimed that his so-called "silent majority" supported it, I'm quite sure it would have dragged on much longer. | |
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| Police target citizens in Minnesota
Posted: 9/4/2008 5:44:28 PM | douglasinmotown -- said-- J. Edgar Hoover privately told President Nixon that he would be unable to maintain order in the streets as long as Nixon's military adventures continued.. Is that actually true? I don't know, but it's certainly plausible..
So you don't "KNOW" anymore than I do do you??
Aren't you the mathmatician.. Yes, I was 17 when I enlisted in 1970- I was at Travis AFB from 1971-1973.. SO.. Whats your point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Vietnam_War
the 1st coordinated protest in this country was in 1963 and it took place in NYC and Philly.
The 1st student protest took place in 1964 in NYC and SFO..
Since we didn't leave Nam for 12 yrs after the first coordinated protest I'll stand by my original statement --protesting the war will NOT end it one day sooner.. It will only get people hurt as the protesters get more and more violent. | |
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| Fascism comes in many stripes
Posted: 9/4/2008 6:43:58 PM | Do I undestand ? You guys need to do something really very simple : check a dictionary.
You don't "descend" into fascism. It's a method of governing. I'm not sure why you guys are having such a hard time wrapping this around your noggins but it's really quite basic.
You're taking what were nominally fascist governments and defining fascism based on the actions of said governments. Why this is slipping past you folks is the only mystery here but these governments could have identified themselves as anything. They could have called themselves democracies or communist states for all the difference it makes. Either way, saying something is "fascist" doesn't imply anything unless you're talking to somebody who can't distinguish between history and methods of governing. If you actually understood this difference (and apparently you don't) then you'd be saying that the US was becoming more like Hitler's Germany. Not that there's any comparison of course but that doesn't really have the same effect on people as screaming that the sky is falling. Frankly, it's a disgusting insult to people who survived Hitler's reign in Germany to draw any comparison no matter how remote. You think arresting four people on suspicion of conspiracy to incite a riot compares to Cristalnacht ? You think Gitmo isn't a holiday retreat compared to Belsen ? Seriously, you guys need to get a grip on your rhetoric and hyperbole.
There is NO comparison. Go ahead and keep on hammering away at that square peg...sooner or later it'll fit in that round hole. At the very least, you're bound to get enough people to believe that that's the case. If you want to say that it seems like the US is descending into a police state, fine go ahead. It's not even remotely similar to one but sure, the actual facts of the matter aren't going to stop you from making the claim anyway. When martial law is declared, when your Bill of Rights is suspended, when there are death squads, extermination camps, "re-education facilities", and no power to protest or criticize...THEN you can claim the US is a police state. If you want to say that it seems to be the way you're headed, then fine, go nuts and provide your evidence. THIS isn't very good evidence though and it's pure hyperbole considering that there ARE still protests, rallies, a free press criticizing the US from within, and probably a majority of people who will be electing a different party later this fall. One thing it isn't , no matter how much you want to pretend it is, is fascist. When George Bush starts providing universal healthcare, post-secondary education, a job, and all the rest of the trimmings that accompany true fascism, THEN you can call it fascism. It sure ain't anything like fascism according to the dictionaries I've found. You should write them and tell them that they're wrong. | |
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| Fascism comes in many stripes
Posted: 9/4/2008 7:20:23 PM |
It sure ain't anything like fascism according to the dictionaries I've found.
Yada, yada, yada .. if you want to debate Fascism vs. Communism, go open a new thread and stop trying to derail this one!
Take this with you when you do .. your internet dictionary source "wikepedia".
There are sufficient similarities between Fascism and Nazism to make it worthwhile applying the concept of fascism to both. In Italy and Germany a movement came to power that sought to create national unity through the repression of national enemies and the incorporation of all classes and both genders into a permanently mobilized nation.[53]
Sounds like where we're headed! Call it what you will. | |
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| Police misconduct surrounding RNC
Posted: 9/4/2008 8:38:03 PM | Hello stellablue
I have seen you post and I do not share your opinon. Thats all. I am a registed Independant. I didn't vote for Bush I am not loyal to any "party".
The point I am making here, for those die hard "party" supporters, is if you don't like what is happening start a petition, get the person out of office. Why "show" yourself and get arrested when that is a futile move. Use your energies in a constructive way.
People sit back and let inaction go forward, do nothing, then want to stand up and want to be heard. Wow. That is really going to change something isn't it?
Being civil and organized is far more credible than acting like a "loud", disgruntle after the fact protester. There are rules to everything.
My main question to all is, Where are you every election? Where are you in local elections? Why do people continue to "let" their government officals run unchecked instead of making it "their business" before those negitive officals get booted "up" the hill? Then because "we" fail do to our part of this thing called democracy, we let things go and go until all civility has left our sense of self and show out like worse than a child pitching a tantram.
We the People of the United States of America. Get with it. Stop your moaning and groaning do your part and lets all show these people we put into office who they work for.
McCain-Palin 08
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| Police misconduct surrounding RNC
Posted: 9/4/2008 8:56:44 PM |
The point I am making here, for those die hard "party" supporters, is if you don't like what is happening start a petition, get the person out of office. Why "show" yourself and get arrested when that is a futile move. Use your energies in a constructive way.
How are your petitions coming along?
Please don't ASSume you know what party anyone is affiliated with. You can only speak for yourself unless you are told by that individual. Please don't ASSume you know what motivates others. You can only speak for yourself.
Those who went in protest, I'm sure, have signed petitions and likely have been more involved in the political process than one who ASSumes they know what everyone else is doing or ASSumes others efforts are futile.
I conclude one who ASSumes to know everything is only ASSuming again .. | |
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| Police misconduct surrounding RNC
Posted: 9/4/2008 9:03:59 PM | I was not speaking to you and don't care to, but to your point, I didn't ASS U me anything. I said FOR THOSE, addressing no one in particular.
My petitions go well thank you very little. Now, I'll refrain from any comment from someone who only tries to start the same ole negitive divisive tactics that cares more about being right than being happy. | |
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| Fascism comes in many stripes
Posted: 9/4/2008 11:07:01 PM | oneblend,
See, first off , you've got me mistaken for somebody that is a Republican. I could care less for them either. Given the choice, I'd probably go with the Democrats but then again, to me, it's just one party with two different names.
Secondly, I don't know if you're aware of this but "wikipedia" (I have no idea why you'd put that in quotation but sure, whatever) is user-edited. That means you can write whatever you want to in there and until an authoritative source comes along to correct or qualify your assertions then it might as well all be a fabrication anyway.
Thirdly, I'm not derailing the thread at all. That's the whole thing about a conversation, it's not simply a bunch of people sitting in a circle nodding their heads with each other like so many sycophants. Some people (I suppose that same group would include you) want to say that the US is headed towards becoming a fascist state. That's ironic because from a military standpoint, American influence peaked during the Cold War. As somebody who remembers the jingoism of the eighties (when you couldn't turn on the television without seeing the American flag or attend a movie without hearing the usual "Rah rah rah USA" cheering) the current state of affairs hardly suggests the same kind of attitude among the same number number of people. Police state ? Puhleeeaze.....pick up a history book and actually read about what a police state is like. Then you can make the claims. Have you ever done that ? Ever read about the Gestapo, the NKVD, or the Stasi ? No, of course you haven't. If you had you wouldn't defend the notion that the US is just like a police state of any kind. Hell, just look at North Korea. Read about that and then tell us all about how similar the US is to Kim Il Sung's administration.
That's the whole premise of this thread ; the idea is that the American people are losing their rights and are living in a fascist, police state. Well that's what I'm responding to. If you don't like having the flaws in your argument pointed out to you then you need to find yourself sitting in a circle like the one I described earlier. Unless all you hear when people point out the holes in your theories is "yada, yada, yada". Oh wait....my bad. You do. Your loss I guess. | |
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| Fascism comes in many stripes
Posted: 9/5/2008 1:28:31 AM | Pulse,
I suspect it is the nodding circle that you eluded to that gave them their 'ugly world glasses' and I wish I could help them see that perhaps the world is not as bad as they seem to hope it is.
Certainly you can see ugliness everywhere you look if you choose to see it. And perhaps they are right on this one, but the evidence they presented this time did not wash for me. Without ugly glasses it looks as though the world is working as it ought to .
Cops are people, too. I'm sure there are some messages that some policemen don't agree with. Just as I'm sure that some of the cops actually agree with some of the demonstrators . Suppressing a message is not why they are there.
The RNC has a right to have their revival meeting without disruption. Because there are those that want to disrupt it, the police must defend the RNC rights by keeping the disruptions away. They must form a line where the uninvited may not pass.
There is a history of activism that thinks that getting arrested is good for their cause and they try to be arrested by disregarding the rules and they create situations where they know they will be arrested.
Try to cross the line and you will be arrested. It's a game that activists play with the cops and as long as both sides are nice, no one gets hurt and the activist gets their activist badge for the day. With this game, no message is getting suppressed, each side is just doing their part in the 'demonstration play'.
IF Amy really wasn't trying to get arrested, she did exactly what activists do to get arrested. How were the cops to know that she was just trying to get past their line, for real. Oh wait, you can't do that. Either way, the cops did what they do, and it seemed they did it pretty politely and professionally.
And of course, it is expected for an activist to scream that their rights were violated after they get arrested trying to force through the line. The 'Demonstration play' has it's script to follow, after all.
It is when there are those, like the groups that broke windows, harrassed scared civilians, and planned and threatened other violence that the police were obliged to do what they could to find them and stop them.
I think they found the right people. I trust that they did an investigation with enough witnesses pointing the finger at them, that the police had sufficient just cause and all that. The things they found convince me that they were in the right place. If not, it was a mistake, but a mistake that needed to be made. You can't take a chance of a large scale riot and all the damage and injury and even deaths that might result.
The alternative that seems to be the only one that would please those in this thread, that think the police are fascists, is for the police to stand idly by until the riot did break out. At that point they would be too late to protect the peace.
Without benefit of ugly glasses I feel that the police did a great job. It just does not seem that they are the evil empire's tool of suppression. I have no trouble seeing it as it should be. They are the thin blue line between criminal and victim, between abusive husband and his battered wife, between the Crips and Bloods, and between 'anarchist/anti-authoritarian' thugs bent on turning a peaceful demonstration into a destructive and tragic riot and RNC partiers and the peaceful demonstrators. If you had friends or family at this demonstration, you should be grateful that the police did their job to prevent something that could have cost you your loved ones.
Because the police did their job the demonstrators got to hold their banners and shout their slogans and show their numbers, and come home safely. Message delivered. Freedom of speech protected.
This was not about suppressing speech. | |
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| Fascism comes in many stripes
Posted: 9/5/2008 2:15:21 AM | Wow, Mrfreemo,
Applause, applause. That has got to be the best rational, explaination of events. I thank you for telling it like it is. In any rally or protest, rules are part of the process. The protesters are aware of just where they cross the line and they do push.
Great post, and to you as well pause. | |
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| Fascism comes in many stripes
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:52:33 AM |
activists do whatever it is activists do to get arrested..they get their activist badge...
Sure...but what do activists (press corps members,disabled people in wheelchairs,
girls standing with flowers,various people in wrong place at wrong time) to deserve being pepper sprayed or maced or manhandled and hauled away.I'm willing to bet that
their are Blackwater boys posing as police.They have brought in "peacekeepers" from
other cities and other states just as there are out of state radicals that are causing problems with the peaceful protesters there are disingenuous officers too
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| those damned protesters of yore
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:19:17 AM | There were definitely some protesters that were "out there" and were beyond the lines of what would be called "peaceful demonstrators" along the lines of PETA's blood bucket brigades.
It seems that the tactic decided upon by the authorities was one of blanket zero tolerance to avoid the trouble that would be involved in identifying troublesome demonstrators, peaceful demonstrators, and potential security threats. That would be a lot of irons to have in the fire. Right or wrong... I don't know.
But I do think we have to get past the idea that frustrated people searching for ways to be heard are psychotic or left-wing nutjobs. Many are people not getting a fair shake and not being heard desperately grasping to be heard.
Funny that during Palin's speech... not so much for her presentation but for the reactions in the audience... my minds eye flashed to grainy black and white images of the crowds in footage from Hitler's speeches. | |
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| those damned protesters of yore
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:03:17 PM | What I find funny is people going there to be billy baddasses and then wearing bandannas because their chicken  ! | |
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| those damned protesters of yore
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:31:56 PM |
What I find funny is people going there to be billy baddasses and then wearing bandannas because their chicken !
So, who exactly was being billy badass? You know nothing about the people who are courageous enough to stand up and speak out apparently!
And I think this week shows exactly why some choose to cover their faces. It is well known that the Government films protests so that they can track the "dissidents" who are willing to speak out when they do things like violate the constitution, start an illegal war.........
And BTW it would be "because they're chicken." Nice spelling there! Keep showing us how intelligent you are. Not that we cannot already tell from your posts. | |
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| those damned protesters of yore
Posted: 9/5/2008 5:00:56 PM | The ones lighting cars on fire, breaking store windows??? Cnn not reporting that stella? Maybe you need to get your groove back!  | |
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| Songbird McCain....lousy pilot..worst choice for leadership
Posted: 9/5/2008 5:09:24 PM | "Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington
"It is part of the general pattern of misguided
policy that our country is now geared to an arms economy which
was bred in an artificually induced psychosis of war hysteria and
nurtured upon an incessant propaganda of fear." - General Douglas MacArthur, May 15, 1951
"To repress rebellion is to maintain the status quo, a condition which binds the mortal creature
in a state of intellectual or physical slavery. But it is impossible to chain man merely by slaving
his body; the mind also must be held, and to accomplish this, fear is the accepted weapon. The
common man must fear life, fear death, fear God, fear the Devil, and fear most the overlords,
the keepers of his destiny." - Manly Palmer Hall (Occultist and 33rd degree Mason)
"Nothing is more despicable than respect based on fear." - Albert Camus
"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." - Malcolm X
"One of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these
days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in
the great struggle for independence." - Charles A. Beard
"... it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All
you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Herman Göring
I am absolutely astounded at how completely and utterly ignorant and brainwashed some of the "sheeople" are here, the 70,000 or thereabouts at the RNC and throughout the States apparently.
R.I.P. U.S.A. | |
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| Police target protesters at RNC convention
Posted: 9/5/2008 5:38:12 PM |
Oops...my mistake. It seems that is from the 1864 Democratic platform, when they were running against Lincoln. It seems Abe was just as unpopular as Mr. Bush, and for many of the same reasons. Oh well, we know how history has corrected that...
for a minute ~ I thought you bright
shame on you for comparing to completly different issue ~
and two very different men ~ you must watch FOX ~
Linclon was a man of conviction an vision that brought the nation together tempered in the blood of a 300,000 Americans
Bush is a puppet of Corporate American and the Military Complex and bleed the nation dry 9 trillion dollars in 8 year ~ and squarnders the the very spirit life of 6,000
Americans and countless others
Shame on you.
Dance | |
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| Songbird McCain....lousy pilot..worst choice for leadership
Posted: 9/5/2008 5:41:39 PM |
Puhleeeaze.....pick up a history book and actually read about what a police state is like. Then you can make the claims. Have you ever done that ? Ever read about the Gestapo, the NKVD, or the Stasi ? No, of course you haven't. If you had you wouldn't defend the notion that the US is just like a police state of any kind.
If you had immediate family from Europe who in fact had been tortured by the Nazi's, who in fact lived under communist rule, who in fact lived to tell their story to their children and others, maybe you'd come out a little more educated yourself. Yes, I read more than you could ever comprehend and I have also learned of the atrocities first hand .. not alone by reading a book. My eyes are wide open, and I can thank those in my family who survived Auschwitz .
I don't think I need to refresh your memory onwhat the Stazi did .. look it up and if you can't draw parallels to the uncontitutional acts of infringing on one's liberties, which are clearly happening today, then it's futile to even converse with you. Your opinion is based on the actual real life substance you lack .That's truly sad.
=============================================================
Sound familiar?
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
What about this?
The Bill of Rights protects freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to keep and bear arms, the freedom of assembly, and the freedom to petition. It also prohibits unreasonable search and seizure, cruel and unusual punishment, and compelled self-incrimination. The Bill of Rights also prohibits Congress from making any law respecting establishment of religion and prohibits the federal government from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law. | |
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| Songbird McCain....lousy pilot..worst choice for leadership
Posted: 9/5/2008 5:42:50 PM |
Voice or no voice,the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same in any country.Herman goering
Ironic when Bush's grandfather Prescott was aligned with German banking,and his great grandfather Samuel was profiting from WW1! it's a family bizness(selling arms to both sides).Also many of the Nazis escaped to South America.Where is Bush planning to retire?Paraguay!
I tell you if the Neocons make it there they will have carved out a seperate country in all essence.Where do you think all the millions $ that were shipped to Iraq went?
One thousand acres is a compound big enough for an airport (Blackwater has Their own,they work for Bush),heck big enough for a country.
If they get there my friends there will be more unrest in the world GUARRANTEED
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| Police target citizens in Colorado
Posted: 9/6/2008 5:05:29 PM |
douglasinmotown on 9/1/2008 8  54 AM Subject: Police target citizens in Colorado Message: JLTINFL18: Here's the link showing what these people had and were intending to use in the "LITTLE PROTEST" ... That's just a list of ordinary stuff found in every garage, farm & ranch in America. Did you also notice: No firearms, legal or otherwise. No ammunition. No grenades, grenade launchers, RPGs, mortars, rockets or other military weapons. No explosives. Not even fireworks or smoke generators. No evidence of criminal activity. No criminal charges levied on the five people arrested & detained. This is among the crudest example of yellow journalism I've seen recently. post.
not yet anyway ~ not yet ~ if you are an educated person or just an enlightened person ~we read account after accounts in world history WHERE
the ruling class find it impossible to believe as they and their whole familys are dragged from their homes in the middle of the night, carry off and shot and then set fire ~ and one by one , family by family , fire fight by fire fight this happens all night long by anger mobs of people.
Over and over through out the centurys this happens, ask a Frenchman, a Turk, an Italian, the German ~ on a and it goes ~ before recorded time, the Toltex, the Inca , the early man of Easter Island ~ on and on back in time.
and the ***holes just can't believe it's happening to them.
Hey ! I'm important and powerful ~ you can't do this!
Dance | |
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| Police target citizens in Colorado
Posted: 9/8/2008 5:44:54 AM | I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist, Jew , Catholic or what ever.
Then when they came for me there was no-one left to speak up..
I think this about puts all of this crap into perspective.
Wanna see what happened at kiddy village during the national Rainbow gathering this year in Wyoming?
Google , police action at kid village during Wyoming Rainbow gathering.
Or Google , Police incite riot at kid village during Wyoming rainbow gathering.
Maybe this will give a new perspective on how people are treated by the authorities who are supposed to be protecting all of us, Not attacking us.
Do you not speak up because you are not a Hippie?
Would you protest if you and your family was treated like this?
How many people need to be attacked or arrested without provocation before The people of America take notice? | |
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| Police target citizens in Colorado
Posted: 9/9/2008 9:37:20 AM | Apparently the GOP was ready for this one!
Does getting the insurance show premeditation?
GOP Bought Insurance for St. Paul to Cover Police Misconduct Lawsuits
The Associated Press reports taxpayers in St. Paul should be off the hook for any damages stemming from claims of police misconduct related to the Republican National Convention. As part of a deal with the city, the Republican Party’s host committee bought insurance covering up to $10 million in damages and unlimited legal costs for lawsuits against the police. In St. Paul, some critics say the agreement only encouraged police to use aggressive tactics knowing they won’t have to pay damages.
This was reported on DemocracyNow! yesterday. | |
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