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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 6/29/2008 5:47:27 AM | My husband had BPD. He toyed with suicide all of his life. Whenever there was a conflict he was ready to end it. Beware of anyone who claims that you are the most perfect, wonderful person on the face of the planet, because if he or she is a BPD, make one mistake or if they see one flaw in you, you will suddenly become satan personified to them. There are no shades of gray with a BPD. It's either all bad, or all good. And once they see any bad, there is never any possibility for there to be good.
I finally divorced my husband. Three days later he came to my workplace and shot himself in the parking lot. It was only by the grace of God that he didn't kill me or someone else, too.
I know that there are people out there with BPD who have overcome it. But be very careful! You will be unable to deal with a hardcore BPD. I tried everything to pull him back, but unless the person does this themselves, it is a lesson in futility. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 6/29/2008 6:50:29 AM | Many bipolar patients (particularly the men) are completely non-compliant until their "down" phase. The energy, excitement, apparent joie de vivre, and the rampant libido....are far too rewarding to risk taking valproate or lithium....and be merely normal.
Borderlines...who are high-functioning....often can mask the many signs for awhile..but eventually the pathology will demolish the ones closest to them. Resistant to treatment, hard to diagnose, mimicking many "normal" conditions...yes, BPD is a nightmare. But hardly UNtreatable. And not everyone who has 2 or 3 of the listed diagnostic criteria has the disorder...many of these can be quite "normal" albeit ineffective and damaging coping mechanisms...
Anyone in a committed relationship with one, my heartfelt desire for you is to try seek some insight and understanding....two excellent suggestions, best read concurrrently:
Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care about Has Borderline Personality Disorder: Paul T. Mason, Randi Kreger
I Hate You, Don't Leave Me: Understanding the Borderline Personality by Jerold J. Kreisman | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 6/29/2008 8:17:38 AM | You are so right, message above! Coping mechanisms of somebody who can't accept their own suffering ( by the way, I would have messaged you on this, but you don't take messages from canadian people....:))) how racist :(((( Do you believe this is a condition that can be cured or not cured - meaning - dealt with or not dealt with? Have you read material on the brain that changes itself? ( a neuroplastic surgeon wrote it - I believe it is called: Change your mind, change your brain....The brain that changes ...or something like that)
If I look at the list of symptoms.......well, come on, I could be BPD too....... ( by the way....."Bipolar Depressive or Borderline Personality?) But what saved me is my level of insight. After all, I believe, If one is truly aware, one cannot be sick.
People lack insight and capacity for mental training.....as I see it, it is all due to ignorance, lack of personal work, lack of acceptance of human suffering. Yes, abandonment causes big trouble in the brain, but the brain maps can be modified with determination, insight and training. People don't know this, and most of all, they don't know HOW to do this.
Therefore the only suggestion that I would have to a partner of someone with assumed BPD is to encourage the person on the inside path ( the inward revolution, so to speak) It might be impossible to have a relationship with this kind of person, till they become completely and fully aware and are willing to train themselves and adapt to the customs of society. But then there is hope....spirits can resurrect, under the right conditions, at the right time. It is not all lost. And to all the women on here....gees, it is not all about you, it is mainly about these people's suffering and their inability to deal with it: it has nothing to do with you, meaning, there was nothing that you could have done to save the person, unless the person had his/her own capacity for insight and a high level of determination. Relationships don't work if people are not at peace with themselves first: this is how I see it.
But to run away from a person that is deeply suffering? No, don't do that. Yes, refuse to have a relationship but encourage the person toward self-evolvement, give the person hope. If the cause of the person illness ( as it is called) is abandonment, what good does it do to make them feel abandoned again? Yes, I understand the survival thing and your coping mechanism, but you are the healthy one, aren't you? Who is the healthy one, reflect on that. Homelessness is not only of bricks, but it comes from the terrible loneliness that the unwanted feels along the way. Don't reject people, understand them. People can change when they are understood and accepted. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 6/29/2008 8:56:12 AM | seriously:
lol not a racist bone here....
and i suppose i'll be canuckian forever, eh!
being born in the true north, strong and free and all....birthrights take precedent...
(hs runs to mail settings to tweak 'em)
If I look at the list of symptoms.......well, come on, I could be BPD too.
Precisely why DIY diagnosis is ill advised. Many of us present some of these "signs" at various times....THAT doesnt make you BPD!
Change Your Brain, Change Your Life: (subtitled The Breakthrough Program for Conquering Anxiety, Depression, Obsessiveness, Anger, and Impulsiveness )
by Daniel G. Amen
Excellent resource, and the undimmed optimist trying to scream out of this realists body resolutely believes there is hope. It usually requires years, even decades of targeted therapy, sometimes meds, AND accurate diagnosis of this and comorbid conditions. The greatest predictor of positive prognosis is the motivation, self disclosure and requisite self awareness of the person suffering with it.
Sort of a misnomer there...the ones who love/live with the BPD person are the ones who truly suffer.
I was married, 22 years, to a lady who had 7 of the 9 markers (5 required for diagnosis)
Unfaithful, she left, filed, and to this day hasn't sought help or even admitted any problem. Sadly, quite typical. And too oft, we who truly love such...unwittingly enable. Particularly if that is our personality...and (as nurse) profession. I would not casually leave anyone i loved for any disorder...but should have sought help for myself years ago. I knew something was amiss (this was before the 4 axe attacks, the two butcher knives, the screwdriver stabbing, the blow to the back of the head with a fully-loaded leather Aigner...)...ya think???
you raise valid points, especially "saving" someone else. Can't be done, and brings a whole new world of sorrows with it...you can onlysave yourself, and in so doing try to help them see....if so they choose. Often, sadly, they choose to remain blind...its easier in the short term.
thanx for your kind sentiments my canadian cohort! | |
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| PLEASE HELP
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:13:17 AM | It's very very hard not to feel hurt or bitter when dealing with someone with BPD or psychosis. You love them and they hurt you. Badly.
Granted, it's not their fault. They are sick and need help. But all the same, when you are the target of their sick behavior, it's hard to not feel angry, hurt, sad, etc.
I love him. I can't help him though. And I have to distance myself to save myself from being attacked verbally, emotionally (and we hope not physically, but it was scary there for a few days.)
I agree with you Seriously - you have to just know that if that person were rational. If they were not sick, they wouldn't be doing this. Have compassion for them. Love them. But stay safe. If you can get them help, get them help. If you can't, accept that you can't and pray for them. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:14:54 AM | | I just got the Stop Walking on Eggshells book. For me, it's a non-issue. I can't help him and am just trying to stay away. But it helps to feel some sort of resolution. To at least try to find a way to help myself heal. | |
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| PLEASE HELP
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:18:10 AM | But Seriously, the problem comes down to this: When they are sick, you can NOT reason with them. You CAN'T encourage them to evolve or whatever.
In the throes of this mental illness, there is NO logic, NO rationality, NO reasoning with them.
You don't seem to grasp that in a psychotic episode a person is no longer dealing with reality on any level. Delusions, voices, paranoia...you can't reason with someone who is THERE. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:20:30 AM | lol seriously, tried to email YOU...hahaha!!!
try me again....if ya wish!
You bring up a very salient point that cuts to the heart of many disorders...that of marginalizing, abandoning, labeling people...
healing on all fronts comes from acceptance. Of self, other, and the reality of the world.
If we but each effect that daily, infinitesimally small, seemingly insignificant change each day, each hour, each minute, each moment of our lives..... imagine!
Affirmation, tolerance, respect....espouse love. Of self, and other.
But, also call to accountability. Honesty is required.... | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:34:17 AM |
I agree with you Seriously - you have to just know that if that person were rational. If they were not sick, they wouldn't be doing this. Have compassion for them. Love them. But stay safe. If you can get them help, get them help. If you can't, accept that you can't and pray for them .
Agreed. | |
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| Help is on the way...
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:36:47 AM | Not necessarily true, edwidge. Reality....who of us can grasp the enormity of reality..and our abject insignificance in light of....the cosmos for example? We each grasp but a tiny sliver of our worlds reality within our own personal world....transcending our own splintered sliver...is the spiritual to which we each aspire....whatever path it may be, or no "path" at all. Selfishness...keeps us within our safety zone, our boundaries, "our" world. Approaching our "edges", we confront the unknown we cannot fully grasp, and see with broader, knowing eyes that there is infinity beyond. You may not be able to reason with them...YOUR OWN REALITY...but you must, to reach, understand a glimmer of THEIRS.
BPD "MAY" have some dissociative manifestations, but these are not global. True acute psychosis is...thankfully rare, and usually has bio-chemically etiology. And responds well to appropriate medical modalities.
As far as the statement that
In the throes of THIS (EDIT bold)mental illness, there is NO logic, NO rationality, NO reasoning with them. That is extremely uncommon. There are confounding drug, alcohol issues IF this occurs within BPD. And i must point out, with 16 years psych nursing behind me...even in acute dissociative psychoses, there usually are some, albeit oft-limited, cognitive pathways remaining. From thousands of patients i've encountered, less than a single handful were truly that acute to be entirely dissociated from all known reality. Hundreds..were on hallucinogens, or incurred organic trauma resultantly. Hundreds more malinger for secondary (SSDI) benefits. | |
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DSM59
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Joined: 6/23/2008
Msg: 437 | |
| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:40:55 AM | went out with a girl who would change from one personality to another.
thought she was a guy (construction worker) and at times a tree surgeon. we split after a short while.
still you should see the extension and the log pile. | |
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| Help is on the way...
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:53:37 AM | I actually agree with you, Heartseekertrue, as well as Edwidge ( because, If somebody does not have the skills to deal with a BPD person, it is better to leave it alone, in love and acceptance).
Yes, in many cases the cognitive pathways are there but cannot be accessed. Why? Because one lacks insight into his/her own suffering. Whatever causes consciousness to be brought up to the surface is a good strategy.
It is my opinion that the many mental problems evident in our society are due to lack of understanding of suffering and its causes, lack of acceptance of suffering. We don't like it and our mind find many different ways to run away from it....this is why people become psychotic......they can't accept this reality, so they run away from it, into their own, which assumingly they like better. It's denial and it's delusion. A person that is deluded, cannot truly see. You can only love a person that cannot see: Love, ultimately, is compassion.
It has been of tremendous help to me to embark on my own spiritual path, not only touching and feeling my own edges, but diving into them. In a way, a BPD person is closest to the truth than an ordinarily sane one, but he/she cannot dive onto his/her own suffering and , in doing so, blocks any possibility of being "saved". So, Yes, Nobody can save another. But don't run: running away from everything is always bad.........gently walk your own way. | |
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| Help is on the way...
Posted: 6/30/2008 12:20:18 PM | While the last page or so of rhetoric is very compassionate and sympathetic, it is rhetoric.
With my particular case of BPD, I HAD a very strong "core belief" that I was "bad".
I've mentioned this before...but for me, this belief was as true as the sky is blue.
If it crept in to my consciousness, I would become suicidal. The belief was supported by the treatment and behaviour of my family in my formative years.
I am high functioning, but was being hindered by periods where the "truth" would creep into my consciousness, and I would have to hide, so that the rest of the world couldn't see how "bad" I really was.
I would set a course for my life, and go along for a while, and everything would be fine....but sooner or later, "it" would creep up, and I would withdraw, to protect myself.
I have recently set an ambitious course for my life. I was told that if I didn't deal with my "core belief", that I probably wouldn't be successful. So I took it on...for four days, I didn't know if I was going to make it through alive. I immersed myself in it....wrote about it, thought about it, cried about it....and after the fourth day, I had referred to my "badness" so much that it didn't bother me so say it, write it on a public forum, nothing. I "outed" it for all the world to see, as I'm doing here.
I haven't started my new ambitious life course yet....but I think I made a couple of therapists happy, because I've come a very looonnnggg way, and I'm a testament to their skills as therapists. I'm expecting to achieve my goal this time.
So...do borderlines "choose" to ignore that there's a "problem" technically, yes....but for some...to acknowledge the "root", and do battle with it, would unfortunately end badly. | |
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| Help is on the way...
Posted: 6/30/2008 1:37:49 PM | After hearing me speak in an Alanon forum not connected with POF, a girl living in Germany from The United Arab Emirates who attends medical school now back in U.A.E, sought me out for help. Currently she is not doing so well, but with the little that I can provide via internet, she does feel better. A resulting main symptom she struggles with is depersonalization. Look it up, it's terrible. I "touch" her over the internet. We have together practiced some visualizations of peaceful scenes to help her calm and reconnect. If I could stroke her hair 10 times a day to help her generate peace I would. I'm silently distressed because of her pain now. I nearly cry as I imagine how she feels. It's hard to help. Sometimes I don't want to help because it can be so hard, but who else will? I do force her to take as much responsibility for herself as I can.
A person who knows they have a problem and is actively seeking a solution demonstrates to them self and others their capacity for sane reasoning; that a person would seek to troubleshoot their own thinking indicates those elements required for a healthy existence.
Had I not read a book mentioned in an above post called "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me", I wouldn't understand much. | |
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| Help is on the way...
Posted: 6/30/2008 4:50:58 PM | | err I wrote too much and timed out, rats! Trust me, what I wrote was brilliant! | |
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| Help is on the way...
Posted: 6/30/2008 5:33:12 PM | I'm sure there are some people who would feel guilty walking away from someone like this but I'm not one of them....I did my time...my ex had issues like these and I stayed for many years. I'd NEVER do it again...at the first sign that someone has even minor problems coping with reality...I'm out the door. It is actually one of the first things I look for now.
I almost lost my mind and committed suicide...I'm NOT going through that again. | |
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| Everybody feels
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:19:33 AM | You know its not just the wonderful effects of BPD in which leave so many of us tossed this way and that in our relationships.
First off how many of us actually know what we want? It's time to cut the BS and be honest. Most importantly we need to be honest to ourselves. Disapointment in our relationships have a great deal to do with our own insecurities, emotional and psychological make up let alone someone elses. I just say before we point the finger at someone elses wrong doing, take a long look in the mirror. Look beyond the bullshit you tell yourself and stare right into your confused eyes and ask yourself "what is it that I truly want out of a relationship?" " What do I need to start doing right now to make that a reality?" Then start doing it right away! Though + Emotion + Behavior = whatever you create of it.
Call it cause and effect. You all really know in the back of your heads or locked deep inside that if you just put a little more effort into it and you had that discipline to maintain it you could be much more happy in your life and relationships but every week we look back and say " ok this week I'm going to do it"
BPD, KFC, UFC, RCMP whatever the abbreviation it's just another excuse on our way to healthy and happy living. I get depressed just reading this thread and it makes me anxious to wonder if I will ever be happily in love or married to the woman of my dreams one day. Something tells me I need to change my way of thinking and ultimately believe this is possible and then one day like a stroke of fate it will become a reality.
Theres always plenty of fish. I think this site itself reinforces our insecurities. It makes us believe that the grass might just be greener on the other side. I would like to see that lawn taken care of for once. Most times I see someone leave for the greener grass then when they find out its not so green they come back to see someone else pissing on their old lawn. Ths is one of my little analogies. Have some self control, self love, self esteem and don't let anyone or anything piss on your lawn. The grass will always be greener if we keep it greener.
Its time to put all of these other issues aside and be accountable for our own actions and not be swayed by the unfortunate actions of others.
If your thirsty, drink some water. Don't **** about the 1959 water drought, or where water comes from and how it is filtered and moves from the resvior down the pipes to your home and then out of your tap and so on. Just go to the sink turn on the water and drink. If you want to be healthy get a britta. What I'm trying to say is things are not as hard as we make it.
When you read this and think to yourself all the reasons why I'm wrong and how all the horrible things that have happened to you make things so hard. Then think again! | |
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| Everybody feels
Posted: 7/1/2008 8:12:52 AM |
You know its not just the wonderful effects of BPD in which leave so many of us tossed this way and that in our relationships.
First off how many of us actually know what we want? It's time to cut the BS and be honest. Most importantly we need to be honest to ourselves. Disapointment in our relationships have a great deal to do with our own insecurities, emotional and psychological make up let alone someone elses. I just say before we point the finger at someone elses wrong doing, take a long look in the mirror. Look beyond the bullshit you tell yourself and stare right into your confused eyes and ask yourself "what is it that I truly want out of a relationship?" " What do I need to start doing right now to make that a reality?" Then start doing it right away! Though + Emotion + Behavior = whatever you create of it.
Call it cause and effect. You all really know in the back of your heads or locked deep inside that if you just put a little more effort into it and you had that discipline to maintain it you could be much more happy in your life and relationships but every week we look back and say " ok this week I'm going to do it"
BPD, KFC, UFC, RCMP whatever the abbreviation it's just another excuse on our way to healthy and happy living. I get depressed just reading this thread and it makes me anxious to wonder if I will ever be happily in love or married to the woman of my dreams one day. Something tells me I need to change my way of thinking and ultimately believe this is possible and then one day like a stroke of fate it will become a reality.
Theres always plenty of fish. I think this site itself reinforces our insecurities. It makes us believe that the grass might just be greener on the other side. I would like to see that lawn taken care of for once. Most times I see someone leave for the greener grass then when they find out its not so green they come back to see someone else pissing on their old lawn. Ths is one of my little analogies. Have some self control, self love, self esteem and don't let anyone or anything piss on your lawn. The grass will always be greener if we keep it greener.
Its time to put all of these other issues aside and be accountable for our own actions and not be swayed by the unfortunate actions of others.
If your thirsty, drink some water. Don't **** about the 1959 water drought, or where water comes from and how it is filtered and moves from the resvior down the pipes to your home and then out of your tap and so on. Just go to the sink turn on the water and drink. If you want to be healthy get a britta. What I'm trying to say is things are not as hard as we make it.
When you read this and think to yourself all the reasons why I'm wrong and how all the horrible things that have happened to you make things so hard. Then think again!
I agree with you Papi...
What upsets me, is the people who have had bad experiences with bi-polar, BPD, unfaithful, abusive...whatever....partners, and they are so frightened by it, that they are so afraid of getting hurt again, that they would rather put their profile up here, and interview people ad nauseum than actually have a relationship.
Yes, these afflictions are horrible, and hurt, but keep in mind...you stayed...I know you were trying to help....trust me, some of my relationships have been with BPD's...I didn't know any different....but you stayed. Like Papi said, what do you really want? If you want a good relationship, get out there, and try to find it. If you start seeing red flags from the past....and I'm talking about genuine red flags, not "panic" red flags, then have the guts to make a decision, and stick with it.
Don't get so invested in your relationship, that you WHINE (oh, that felt good)...I can't leave, because.....
It's your life, without you, you have nothing...... | |
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| Everybody feels
Posted: 7/3/2008 12:13:47 PM | My ex is BPD....diagnosed twice, but he still refuses to accept that diagnosis. Life has to go on for the rest of the world though, and since it DOESN'T revolve around him, it goes on without him. It took a long time to get past the confusing mixture of hate and guilt, but we've both moved on.
I'd like to think I'd see the signs in someone else and steer clear, but who knows? | |
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| Everybody feels
Posted: 7/3/2008 2:05:09 PM | Papi,
What you seem to be missing is that many of our ex BPDs did give us what we had been looking for all along...only to change after they had us roped in.
Some changed gradually, some changed overnight, but one thing for sure is it happened after something in them KNOWS we would be powerless for a while to do anything about the way they are treating us.
That's the truest form of injustice. That's why it takes such a long time to recover from emotionally, financially, etc. But I do agree that AFTER the relationship is over and the healing has begun, it doesn't serve us well to continue to whine about it without looking at our role in the dance...and eventually move on completely.
--J | |
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| Everybody feels
Posted: 7/3/2008 2:25:30 PM | Golfer, you are so right...
What you seem to be missing is that many of our ex BPDs did give us what we had been looking for all along...only to change after they had us roped in
Or they got comfortable and let down their guard, or stress got to them, or whatever the reason. My ex was everything I wanted him to be, because he knew what I was looking for and he became that. He was so good at being a great guy, that when the BPD starting coming out, I was totally shocked. And during that period of shock, I tried in every way to rationalize why he was acting that way. I had no clue he had BPD, nor any other issues at that time. And yes, powerless is a GREAT word for what I was for such a long time.
I'm still healing, still trying to understand it all. I have the "Walking on Eggshells" book and it has helped. But knowing there are so many others out there who have been hurt and have healed helps me alot.
And now I'm far more understanding of people with BPD and other similar issues. I just had never dealt with these situations before and it really knocked me for a loop. | |
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