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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/20/2008 12:39:25 PM | where is your humaneness, and empathy for society's down-troddened people, who have mental issues????????????? God forbid!!! if you ever become mentally ill!!! -- maybe you are , - with these strong statements you make online. Have you been checked lately????
Do some research on treatment and probable outcomes for Axis 3 emotional disorders. The "therapeutic goal" in the treatment of BPD is to establish basic function, but nothing in the studies encourages the notion that a BPD will ever be capable of intimacy.
BPDs are very skilled at picking "nons" who may have some co-dependant issues, and high functioning BPDs are very good at "mirroring", presenting the "perfect other" that they "read" you well enough to know. It's "easy", since they have no self-identity, to assume a role, for a time, and "be", for a time, "who" and "what" they know you want them to be. Of course, when they find out that you aren't the "perfect" solution, and can't "fix" their feelings, which no one can do, then you are "split" from "all white" to "all black". A book on this topic illustrates the dynamic well in the title "I love you, don't leave me". It's a "Keep your distance....a little closer" message, and the door they open will lead you into an emotional hell.
It's a heartbreaking condition and takes a tremendous toll on those who get involved with someone with this condition. At most, some studies show some progress using DBT, being able to restore low functioning BPD to some state of functionality, as in being able to hold a job and earn a living. Some studies indicate that some low functioning BPD improve their functionality, as they approach age 50; but no credible mental health professional that I have been able to find, has asserted significant success in treating BPD, so that they can function in an intimate relationship. In fact, most therapists conversant with BPD will advise that the kindest thing someone in an "intimate" relationship with a BPD can do is to leave. Intimacy is the greatest trigger to their inner turmoil and pain.
Is it genetic predisposition, or trauma? I'm not sure. That's not the point. It's not about "fault". It's simply recognizing that you can't "fix" feelings in someone else.You can't love someone enough to "fix" a problem you didn't create, although BPD will encourage you to try. It's a bottomless pit of need, that can't be filled.
It's difficult to accept that it's hopeless. No one wants to "throw away" hope, but all you do by staying involved, is to follow a path to your own dysfunction.
If you are involved, please check out "Walking on Eggshells" as a starting point. The life you save might very well be your own. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/20/2008 12:42:27 PM | | cinamin47....i am not an expert on mentally ill people/ dating them. I DO NOT VOLUNTEER- LIKE YOU DO.... in working at a homeless shelter. - kudos to you, because you say you volunteer , at your womanz center. You are to be appauded for that. However...... you seem to complain about mental and homeless people, and their issues that you have to deal with, at that womenz center that you work/ volunteer at. I don't understand your logic. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:51:09 PM |
cinamin47....i am not an expert on mentally ill people/ dating them. I DO NOT VOLUNTEER- LIKE YOU DO.... in working at a homeless shelter. - kudos to you, because you say you volunteer , at your womanz center. You are to be appauded for that. However...... you seem to complain about mental and homeless people, and their issues that you have to deal with, at that womenz center that you work/ volunteer at. I don't understand your logic.
I think she is quite frustrated. It is no good to be around mentally ill people for any length of time. It tends to rub off on you. I think being there with them and seeing them not taking their medication, their destructive behavior and all that would get very frustrating especially if you are not very well trained to deal with them. I have noticed that quite a few people who work long-term with the mentally ill end up taking on some of their characteristics.......It is a very sad illness that I would not wish on my greatest enemy but I cannot be around people if they are unbalanced....It takes too much of a toll on me. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:59:58 PM |
i am not an expert on mentally ill people/ dating them. I DO NOT VOLUNTEER- LIKE YOU DO.... in working at a homeless shelter. - kudos to you, because you say you volunteer , at your womanz center. You are to be appauded for that. However...... you seem to complain about mental and homeless people, and their issues that you have to deal with, at that womenz center that you work/ volunteer at. I don't understand your logic.
The discussion of mentally ill people, who are institutionalized or homeless, is completely off topic. Most of those people are paranoid/schizophrenic, seriously depressed, or bi-polar. All of those conditions, to a greater or lesser degree, respond to medication, although many patients resist the meds.
BPD on the other hand is distinctively NOT responsive to meds, BPDs are not "insane". They have an Axis 3 emotional disorder, most can "function" in society, and jobs. So long as it's not a close relationship, you can't necessarily tell that there's a problem. Some high functioning are even fairly competent counselors, social workers, physicians, etc.. It's intimacy that brings the chaos, which is the thrust of the OP and OT. BPD are incapable of functioning in an intimate relationship, and falling in love with someone with this disorder is a journey into hell. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 6:53:07 AM |
You will never, ever, know the real them because their *is* no real them, just a series of personas,
This is true. However, the first persona you meet is a mirror of yourself, your interests, your desires, all the character traits that you treasure in others, intense adoration of you. It seems like you've met the partner of your dreams. Very intoxicating!
For some, evidence of their f*cked-up mentality may emerge soon in the relationship and for some, the evidence is concealed a lot longer. Also depends on your own self-trust skills of "believing" that something is wrong when it is wrong.
Very few, in this type of relationship emerge unscathed - both emotionally and spiritually. That's why most who have been in this madness warn all others to run away as fast as you can! Unfortunately, they often don't hear the warning loud enough - and there we go again, another victim. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:38:10 AM | junipermoon
You have a wise and beautiful spirit...I hope you meet someone who truly deserves you.
Quazi
orcaanna....
Sometimes your words are prophetic......just a little TRUE story
Two sisters one "flighty", one "judgemental"
Flighty goes through life "flightily" rolling with the punches...life is tough, she falls...gets back up...and so it goes.
Judgemental, judges....flighty is too flighty, she should smarten up....fly right...you need to do THIS, flighty....
One sister is now in an institution at 55 years old...for life....needs complete care....wanders the hallways, or is in bed...can feed herself, barely.
Which sister do you think is in the institution?
I don't think I need to say.....Judgemental started having some downturns in her life....personal losses....family, friends, husband divorced her after 30+ years...got let go from her "lifelong" job....
Started having some bad symptoms...sounded like PTSD, when I read them....hmmmm that fits....but she let it go....and let it go....and one day, she was gone.
I have a favourite saying for judgemental types......
There are BETTER people than YOU living on the street, right now.....
AND if you were with me right now, I could point out a few, who got there through no fault of their own...period! | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:02:06 AM |
BPDs are very skilled at picking "nons" who may have some co-dependant issues, and high functioning BPDs are very good at "mirroring", presenting the "perfect other" that they "read" you well enough to know. It's "easy", since they have no self-identity, to assume a role, for a time, and "be", for a time, "who" and "what" they know you want them to be. Of course, when they find out that you aren't the "perfect" solution, and can't "fix" their feelings, which no one can do, then you are "split" from "all white" to "all black".
Wow... thank you for this post. I have said the same (in my own words) about my ex with BPD, but actually seeing this helps.
I have the book "Walking On Eggshells" and it explained so much to me. Unfortunately, I was just out of the relationship and it was too painful for me to finish it at the time. I would cry as I read it for HIS pain and the h e l l he was living, even though he caused so much pain with me and my children. Yes, he was great at picking people... still is. Now though, I have moved on and things are so much happier and more stable in my life and in the lives of my children.
I just hope he will get the help he needs someday, but at 50, I doubt that will ever happen. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:04:30 AM | I'm not certain, but I was in a 6 year relationship with someone who I highly suspect was BPD and it was six years of hell. They were certainly bipolar. Why did I stay in it so long? Well, they could be a lot of fun and the sex was great. However, they were also given to extreme mood swings that were hell. Why do I think they may have been BPD? I don't know much about it but for one thing, everything was always someone else's fault. They made a right hand turn from the middle lane of the road and got sideswiped by a car in the right hand lane? The other car must have been approaching too fast and didn't the other car see them? They hit a car that had the right of way while backing out of a parking space? It was the other person's fault because they should have noticed they were backing out. Etc. Etc. Etc. It was impossible to ever solve any problems because they never took responsibility for anything. Meanwhile, they were extremely controlling. After six years of insanity I finally got my act together and quit.
Not long ago I had a client who I also suspect has BPD. When she first came to see me, she had some ongoing pain problems that she'd seen all sorts of specialists for and got no relief. I was the first person, she told me, that gave her any relief and she started coming regularly. Then she started complaining that last time I hurt her & would complain during her sessions that first I was not doing enough, then I was doing too much, micromanaging the session and nothing I ever did was right. I got worried because people with BPD can be very litigious and the situation was looking scary. I finally politely refused to keep doing the things she was asking me to do which she then would tell me hurt her. She was a bit taken aback and stopped coming to see me. I was relieved.
I would steer clear of anyone with BPD. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:18:30 AM |
BPD are incapable of functioning in an intimate relationship,
Define "intimate relationship" for me, please?
The benefit of being in therapy for numerous years, is that I have been taught to not accept dictionary, or textbook definitions of almost anything...letting people or "things" define me as an individual got me into big trouble...mostly people.....
Once I rejected "their" expectations, and created my own, I started recovering...I think what I believe to be right and correct....and if I'm not sure, I run it past my therapist to make sure what I'm thinking is "realistic".
Would my definition of "intimate relationship" work for you?....nope....would yours work for me?....probably not. But I do in fact have relationships that are extremely intimate in every way....are they conventional?....nope....do they work....yup.... | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:31:27 AM | I don't really know much about BPD, I feel a lot of empathy for someone has this problem though. It seems like it would be a tremendous curse to live with and I don't think it's fair to lay blame. I'm sure no one asked for that condition, imagine how torturous that must be.
As far as Bipolar people, I think they just need the right medication coupled with counselling to repair the damage that that medical condition creates. A close family member married a guy who is Bipolar and I want to punch him out. He's a walking disaster, as much as I hate him right now, I think everything he is doing is a cry for help. He needs to be forced into treatment and I don't know how to do that.
I know with me it took a lot of good people to tell me to seek help, followed by hitting absolute bottom before I accepted any medication. I'm not perfect, but I am a whole lot better than I used to be. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:38:39 AM | My ex of 9yrs is either BPD or Bipolar. He spent a week in the psych ward to be told he was BP 1 and 2. But honestly he fits BPD..
I will never ever ever never again, ever never date someone with either disorders. Once I start seeing it in someone I will end it right then and there!! | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 11:45:35 AM |
BPDs are very skilled at picking "nons" who may have some co-dependant issues, and high functioning BPDs are very good at "mirroring", presenting the "perfect other" that they "read" you well enough to know. It's "easy", since they have noself-identity, to assume a role, for a time, and "be", for a time, "who" and "what" they know you want them to be. Of course, when they find out that you aren't the "perfect" solution, and can't "fix" their feelings, which no one can do, then you are "split" from "all white" to "all black". A book on this topic illustrates the dynamic well in the title "I love you, don't leave me". It's a "Keep your distance....a little closer" message, and the door they open will lead you into an emotional hell.
Is it genetic predisposition, or trauma? I'm not sure. That's not the point. It's not about "fault". It's simply recognizing that you can't "fix" feelings in someone else.You can't love someone enough to "fix" a problem you didn't create, although BPD will encourage you to try. It's a bottomless pit of need, that can't be filled.
Very interesting theory.....what about a "non" who picks the BPD? What would the reason for that be?
I have been very good at not pointing out that it's not always "us" that do the "picking" and, from everything that I've learned, there are definitely reasons why we pick the people we pick....truly want to change your life....pick differently......
The reason no health professional has success with BPD, is because no teaching manual or textbooks will prepare someone to treat a BPD....I can talk to a member of my family...who is BPD...I see the symptoms....the same as mine....but the behaviour is totally different. Rages can be totally different. Some scream at the top of their lungs, and if let go....(which most people are not smart enough to do, they fight back) they just wind down, and I say..."you done?" and life carries on....others don't yell they are nasty to the core, faces contorted, finger pointed...and it will go on for hours....and even after it stops, you know goddamn well it isn't over....
Genetic predisposition or trauma....both.....
I have traced memories back to the age of three that suggest predisposition....but my Mother also "modelled" the behaviour for me in a huge way....just to seal the deal. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 1:43:18 PM | "BPD are incapable of functioning in an intimate relationship, "
Define "intimate relationship" for me, please?
Very, very *emotionally* close, as in lovers or married partners. However, the most damaging malfunction occurs with a BPD parent and their child. Just go on NON discussion forums and read the posts of adult children of BPDs. Trauma in the first degree!
I echo the above statement, that they are incapable of functioning in an intimate relationship and that is where the *disease* is evident. Most other relationships are not affected.
If you are a recovering BPD and balking at the idea that intimacy is at the core of your problems, I would suggest that you still have a ways to go. Sincerely wishing you good luck and healing. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 5:30:35 PM | LilBrooker did a great job of succinctly explaining "mirroring", the "hook" that gets set in the beginning, creating the illusion of the "core/essential" wonderful person, "if only" you "try hard" or "love the BPD" enough. They will constantly encourage, demand, plead, or demonize you to spur you on to greater efforts, to bring out that "perfect essence". Her definition of mirroring was:
the first persona you meet is a mirror of yourself, your interests, your desires, all the character traits that you treasure in others, intense adoration of you. It seems like you've met the partner of your dreams. Very intoxicating!
stillhopefultx wrote:
I have the book "Walking On Eggshells" and it explained so much to me. Unfortunately, I was just out of the relationship and it was too painful for me to finish it at the time. I would cry as I read it for HIS pain and the h e l l he was living, even though he caused so much pain with me and my children. Yes, he was great at picking people... still is. Now though, I have moved on and things are so much happier and more stable in my life and in the lives of my children.
1. In a thread like this, the book "Walking on Eggshells" can't be mentioned often enough. Anyone who begins to suspect that's an issue, really needs to read this book.
2. Stillhopefultx, like almost everyone else, first reads that book, hoping to find a way to "help", looking for a "cure". I respectfully suggest, that she go back, and read it, this time for herself. I also suggest that there are forums, and websites, for those nons trying to "recover" from being in, or having been in, a relationship with a BPD. The "validation" of your perceptions, and realizing that you aren't alone, is invaluable in "moving on" and "letting go". The websites really don't want to have their URLs posted on public boards, like this one, but if you follow the links in the book, you will find them. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 7:01:21 PM |
Very, very *emotionally* close, as in lovers or married partners. However, the most damaging malfunction occurs with a BPD parent and their child. Just go on NON discussion forums and read the posts of adult children of BPDs. Trauma in the first degree!
I echo the above statement, that they are incapable of functioning in an intimate relationship and that is where the *disease* is evident. Most other relationships are not affected.
If you are a recovering BPD and balking at the idea that intimacy is at the core of your problems, I would suggest that you still have a ways to go. Sincerely wishing you good luck and healing.
The secret of "intimacy" with a BPD is to have very clear cut "boundaries" as to what your relationship includes....no ambiguity.... clear communication...in short "black and white". Spell everything out, leave little to the imagination, and when something comes up, address it.....trust me, it works just fine.....
I don't need to read the NON discussion forums, thanks, I had my own BPD Mother at home, and an Aunt, and even a Grandmother....she was a dilly....I have plenty of stories of my own...
I echo the above statement, that they are incapable of functioning in an intimate relationship and that is where the *disease* is evident. Most other relationships are not affected.
Really.....and you are getting this information, where? Is that a direct quote, or are you paraphrasing....I don't think you can show me that as a direct quote....
If you are a recovering BPD and balking at the idea that intimacy is at the core of your problems, I would suggest that you still have a ways to go. Sincerely wishing you good luck and healing.
See, here's where the problem occurs....because I never said any of the above, I never thought any of the above, and I never even hinted at any of the above. This is all your perception of what "I" am thinking....and you have absolutely no basis for thinking that.
How do you propose to know what I think "is at the core of my problems?" | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 7:06:34 PM |
But I am not "on the streets", and do not plan to be.
You and I should go out on the streets together....we'll take a poll and see how many of the people living out on the street, planned to be there......
It can happen to you. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 8:37:52 PM | Quasi 100
I am getting my information from personal experience, my own and others, and from reading and reading more.
Life is not black and white, neither are relationships nor is communication. I do not know what you are thinking. You missed a very important word in my post..."If".
I am truly sorry for you as a child, being parented by a BPD mother and relatives. And I am also sorry that you are dealing with it as an adult. You didn't cause it; you don't deserve it. It must be painful reading the anger and dismissiveness on a thread like this. I think it would be in your best interests to not expose yourself to the rages of NONs. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 8:56:25 PM | Oh yeah, absolutely positive . . . Uh what are the symptoms? Drinks too much; wiggs out over nothing; frequently uses the words 'always' and 'never' . . . More?? Can't quite catch onto reality; trouble with basic concepts such as 'don't grill me', and no, 'I'm not sleeping with anyone else'; let me know if I'm close.  | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 9:14:54 PM |
I just went and bought the highly recommended "Stop Walking On Eggshells" book previously touted in this thread as good reading in the subject. I will digress as I read. Bear with me as I do...
That was the first book I read on the subject. Boy, did I ever gain insight into my relationship. May I suggest another book that you can read at a later date? This one will give you more insight into your BPD partner (or ex-partner). It's called "Lost in the Mirror". | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/21/2008 9:19:27 PM |
This one will give you more insight into your BPD partner (or ex-partner). It's called "Lost in the Mirror".
Interesting that you should mention that book. I don't think this has come up in this thread, but an interesting thing to note is that many borderlines refuse to look at themselves in a mirror.
Another book, that's considered to be one of the seminal books on the topic is "I hate you....don't leave me". | |
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