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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/26/2008 10:25:55 AM |
Unfortunately even though You sound like you have some knowledge in this there are documentations.. ALOT..... Linahan is the world known expert on "recovering" from BPD. I sit once a week with over 20 BPD recoveries and listen as they are taught skills and tell stories of how they have recovered from the BPD issues and live normal healthy lives. The facilitators have workbooks written by Linahan and the skills and the way they are taught have proven that it has worked for Years
I mentioned DBT in an earlier post, and yes, there seems to be some indication of restoration of function in lower functioning BPs. However there are only anecdotal claims, that are not supported or accepted generally by mental health professionals, of BPDs being "cured" or able to function well in voluntary, intimate relationships.
However, I suggest that anyone involved with a BP, read the book "Walking on Eggshells", go to the websites recommended in the book, and do his/her own research on the disorder. It's not something that someone else can "love someone else through", and often, being "supportive" deters a BP from owning his/her own feelings. It gives him/her validation that it's always "someone else's fault". | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/26/2008 10:30:19 AM |
I was homeless from 1991 to 1999 that when I found a hole in the wall apt that live in in till I got my back pay from the VA yes the VA gave me 17 years of back pay.
So to cinn47 and the other people out there who don't know what it like to be on the othere side on the coin (the one with the disorder) please don't talk on thing you don't know about
This would be one of the people who was homeless through no fault of his own, that I was mentioning.....
Congratulations on getting your 17 years of back pay. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/26/2008 10:42:54 AM | However, I suggest that anyone involved with a BP, read the book "Walking on Eggshells", go to the websites recommended in the book, and do his/her own research on the disorder. It's not something that someone else can "love someone else through", and often, being "supportive" deters a BP from owning his/her own feelings. It gives him/her validation that it's always "someone else's fault".
Actually I work with them on a weekly basis. I have had a great deal of research and am givin ample books and courses to help with BPD sufferers. The facilitators I speak of "are" mental health therapists. They are trained in BPD as I will be when done my schooling also. This "cure" You speak of is like anything else. They will never not be BPD but they will have the skills and the ability to manage and live normal lives. Ive seen it and for years. Alcoholics live with being sober. Anxiety suffers cope with anxiety and manage their attacks so they are next to nil. And BPD sufferes learn to manage all thier fears and recognize why they do what they do and alter it. Part of Linahans recovery is about changing ones thoughts whether it be core beliefs or beliefs from abuse etc.. changing ones thoughts.. changing ones reactions to crises.. changing ones ways of coping. Its been intriguing talking to you about this but I think that we have different experiences and knowledge on this subject and I feel we could go on forever about what we both know and thats not helping anyone really. There is help for the sufferers and the survivors of the ones who have to live with the sufferer. My point in it all.. is there is positives and thats recovery for the people with this disorder..and there is hope and proven success.. lets stay positive and hopeful .. not discourage the ones reading.. . | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/26/2008 11:11:39 AM |
I mentioned DBT in an earlier post, and yes, there seems to be some indication of restoration of function in lower functioning BPs. However there are only anecdotal claims, that are not supported or accepted generally by mental health professionals, of BPDs being "cured" or able to function well in voluntary, intimate relationships.
However, I suggest that anyone involved with a BP, read the book "Walking on Eggshells", go to the websites recommended in the book, and do his/her own research on the disorder. It's not something that someone else can "love someone else through", and often, being "supportive" deters a BP from owning his/her own feelings. It gives him/her validation that it's always "someone else's fault".
I'm going to try to explain this one more time.....
The borderline interaction with "others" ....ANY "others", is second to the interaction with the "self".
Try to think of yourself wanting to get away from yourself all the time because you're "bad"
You feel bad opening presents at Christmas, because you don't "deserve" them, because you're "bad"
Over three years, and with much therapy, I uncovered some of the "roots" of my "badness"
I was an accident...my parents were having problems when my Mom got pregnant.
My Mom cried, and drank her way through her pregnancy with me.
The Doctors felt no fetal heartbeat for the last three months of my Mom's pregnancy (48 years ago) but Mom kept on growing.
The night I was born, they were "taking the baby"
I was born alive, and was told regularly "you were SUPPOSED to be dead" and then they would laugh....
At nine weeks old, I was taken out of the house, and sent to a facility for a week, because I "cried" too much....I came home for a week, and was sent back for another week. I learned this from my sister, who still doesn't cry, because it scared the hell out of her so badly she decided at 4 years old, that she didn't want to be sent away too, so she just wouldn't cry.
Now....we arrive at the feeling "bad". While I wasn't physically abused, I would say that I was certainly mentally abused (keep in mind, I'm giving highlights of the first 9 weeks of my life).
When children are abused, this is (normally) done by caretakers, or other responsible people.
Why would these people want to do this, unless they are "bad" or in my case, not supposed to be here.
The longer the abuse continues, the worse the feeling of being "bad"
The splitting, black/white, etc. all comes into play as SUPER HYPED UP defense mechanisms to protect the borderline from becoming seriously demented.
Our personalities don't form properly....go figure....the people who "love" us, are tormenting us.
I could go on, but my point is that by a fairly early age, borderline has been established, and the feeling of being "bad" is deeply entrenched.
I was very lucky, that with years of therapy, and tons of support, I was able to confront my "badness", and survive. It took four days, and it was dicey a couple of times. But I had come far enough to realize, that all those things that were said to me as a child, SHOULDN'T have been said....YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DEAD.
I grew up believing that to be true.
So, unless the borderline is very informed, and can deal with how they feel about "them" first, chances are, they really don't have A CLUE how to deal with you. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/26/2008 3:43:12 PM | the denial does almost as much damage as the disorder itself. and the behaviors, including the rages and abuse, will continue unchecked. it makes it frustrating to the other party, who sees so much potential and really wants the bpd to enjoy life
Juniper ... just a wild guess, but I think I know the friend you're trying so hard to analyze (and perhaps discredit without mentioning names) on here with the help of people's validations. I've seen the respective testimonials on your profiles ... which have since disappeared. I've also read your posts on this thread and the "Narcissistic Person" thread. I have drawn the conclusion that you may be attempting to vindicate your role in the failure of that friendship ... as such failures always involve the dynamics of both individuals concerned ... not just one. Do you really see the individualized potential in that person or just the potential you believe she should aspire to??
Unless you're a trained psychologist with proven credentials, how can you be completely sure of what you're saying is true ... or that other poster comments are true? They may have simply Googled the symptoms of BPD ... drew their own conclusions based on your posts and be in agreement with you. They don't personally know your friend. Perhaps you have some unresolved emotional issues with this former friend in question such that you must post to a public forum seeking the opinions of posters on her "disorder".
Your friend may have other issues in her life (perhaps a physical illness) that make her APPEAR to have some psychological disorder ... but that could be mere appearance without undisputed fact. She could be completely normal. Sometimes in the medical field, physical illnesses are mis-diagnosed ... with the doctor prescribing improper medication as a treatment ... resulting in more harm to the patient then if the treatment wasn't administered at all.
All I'm saying is: you must look at all factors before passing judgment on a person's mental condition simply because you had a less than ideal relationship with them. Hasn't this public psycho-babble gone on long enough?? Aren't you tired of analyzing this to death? If you are no longer in relationship with this friend ... then let it go and get her out of your mind?? If you don't (or can't) maybe you have some attachment issues ... is it that you really miss her and the only way you can cope is to continuously post about a perceived disorder??  | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/26/2008 7:01:10 PM |
Unless you're a trained psychologist with proven credentials, how can you be completely sure of what you're saying is true ... or that other poster comments are true? They may have simply Googled the symptoms of BPD ... drew their own conclusions based on your posts and be in agreement with you
Again, with all due respect.....
Even trained psychologists, and psychiatrists don't "get" BPD....
The "denial" that everyone talks about is a defense mechanism that the brain uses to protect the BPD from being reminded about how "bad" they were "taught" they were, and to stop them from committing suicide.
If you want to comment on a personal relationship between two people on this site, don't you think it would have been more appropriate to do it via a private message, rather than airing YOUR views on THEIR relationship on a public forum.
May I have a three finger shot of "therapy" over here in the corner, please.... | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/27/2008 11:16:38 AM | If you want to comment on a personal relationship between two people on this site, don't you think it would have been more appropriate to do it via a private message, rather than airing YOUR views on THEIR relationship on a public forum
So it's your opinion that as long as the "airing" is done thinly veiled ... cleverly disguised, then it's OK.
The "denial" that everyone talks about is a defense mechanism that the brain uses to protect the BPD from being reminded about how "bad" they were "taught" they were, and to stop them from committing suicide
Nowhere did I say the former friend in question was thinking about committing suicide ... requiring a "defense mechanism" strategy to protect them from doing so. Yet another self-preoccupied assumption.
May I have a three finger shot of "therapy" over here in the corner, please....
Here you go.
Here, YOU go.....
I'm assuming that the thinly veiled, cleverly disguised "airing" that you're talking about was done by Junipermoon....that is what I'm basing what I say on.....
As far as that goes, I found Junipermoon's posts to be very insightful and productive....and I had no knowledge of any "relationship" that she may be "airing". And frankly, I don't need to know now.
Do you know for a fact that Junipermoon is referring to this "relationship"? Did she tell you that? If not, all the more reason why it's really not appropriate to call her out on a public forum.
The best defense is a good offence, I guess...I was talking about BPD "denial" (since BPD is what this thread is about).....YOU are the one talking about the "former friend". How does the "former friend" fit in with the thread? She doesn't....
If you have an issue with Junipermoon, why don't you take it up with Junipermoon?
I believe that this thread is helpful for both BPD's as well as "nons"
I don't tell my secrets, unless I believe that someone is getting something from them....it's against my religion, trust me.
So please take your personal vendetta somewhere else.....thanks | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/27/2008 5:58:49 PM | Quazi ... please learn how to do nested quotes if you want to quote me ... quoting you. That would make it easier to read.
I'm assuming that the thinly veiled, cleverly disguised "airing" that you're talking about was done by Junipermoon....that is what I'm basing what I say on.....
You got it.
As far as that goes, I found Junipermoon's posts to be very insightful and productive....and I had no knowledge of any "relationship" that she may be "airing"
That because you don't have all the information to put 2 and 2 together.
Do you know for a fact that Junipermoon is referring to this "relationship"? Did she tell you that? If not, all the more reason why it's really not appropriate to call her out on a public forum
Actually I do ... from her posts ... her former friend's posts and the fact they had each other as favorites (with testimonials) and those favorites disappeared at the same time as when the negative posting started ... like I said: two and two. I just think Juniper should just let it go as I don't believe she's a professional psychologist ... and is simply relating her bad experiences in her opinion after some Google research.
If you have an issue with Junipermoon, why don't you take it up with Junipermoon?
So please take your personal vendetta somewhere else.....thanks
I don't have an issue with her nor do I have a personal vendetta. I'm sure she a nice person who just have to move on with her life regarding someone whom she believes to have BPD ... unless of course, she's referring to a current associate with BPD. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/28/2008 12:10:53 PM | This is a golden opportunity for you "nons" out there to see the "cognitive" challenges faced by BPD's.
By what authority am I making this post...my own, I am BPD, and these last few posts are a wonderful example of BPD cognition errors.
We start with a post that is not only inappropriate for the topic, it is inappropriate for the board....period.
Post number two totally ignores the fact that the first post was inappropriate, and challenges my reply...defending the first post, and incorrectly attributing information that was actually on topic.
Post number three more or less re-iterates post number one...just using different words, and descriptions.....still trying to drive his point home.
I've had more conversations that went like this than I care to remember...something is explained CLEARLY once...back on topic....then it comes back from a different angle....back on topic...then it comes back....like a dog with a bone....
I admit, that I have been the guilty party, but again awareness of what one is doing is critical to stopping the behaviour.
I hope that you understand what I'm trying to say, and can recognize what I'm talking about... | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/28/2008 3:17:04 PM |
I was homeless from 1991 to 1999 that when I found a hole in the wall apt that live in in till I got my back pay from the VA yes the VA gave me 17 years of back pay.
So to cinn47 and the other people out there who don't know what it like to be on the othere side on the coin (the one with the disorder) please don't talk on thing you don't know about.
I have known what it's like. And I'm not a mentally ill person. I have never been diagnosed as such. But I have lived with and had the unfortunate experience of being around all kinds of mentally ill. And usually they don't get help, refuse to even believe they have an illness, and point their fingers at everyone around them (even those who are there to help them).
I am not a psychologist and do not want or claim to be. I know about the 'hole in the wall' apartments. I do not live in one, but if I had to I would have. I know what it's like to have the PTSD or post-traumatic stress. Depression is part of it. I had experiences that led to that. But there are much worse syndromes and illnesses than that.
I resent the way the US government treats is vets. And it's sad and there is no excuse for it. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/29/2008 6:24:10 AM | Ummm... Hi. I am seeing a lot of responses about BPD and how people look at the disorder.
I have BPD and so does my brother. It is scary from both points. Having it and loving someone with it. But please remember that we are not monsters. We did not wake up one morning and say " Hmmm... I'd like to have a personality disorder."
It is the worse feeling knowing that a normal person can not even imagine how bad we hurt. Our emotions are such on a higher level. When a loved one leaves you after a year it feels like a divorce to us.
A person with BPD just wants love and to know that they are not going to be rejected or left. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/29/2008 6:28:55 AM |
A person with BPD just wants love and to know that they are not going to be rejected or left.
Blonde Phoenix, I congratulate you on what must have taken a lot of hard work for you to be able to share. Most of the "nons" who post in here, are here, because we love, or have loved, a borderline. Some may have a lot of anger in the aftermath, but I think most people, who have tried to love a borderline, want nothing more than for the BP to find some relief from the intensely painful feelings.
That being said, those who are in, or are contemplating, a voluntary, close relationship with someone who has BP, should research what they're in for. A good starting point is "Walking on Eggshells" as has been mentioned in this thread several times. If someone reads that book, and researches further, and then chooses to continue, then it's an informed decision. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/29/2008 7:38:47 AM |
That being said, those who are in, or are contemplating, a voluntary, close relationship with someone who has BP, should research what they're in for. A good starting point is "Walking on Eggshells" as has been mentioned in this thread several times. If someone reads that book, and researches further, and then chooses to continue, then it's an informed decision.
Renaissance Man...
I love this idea, it's great...but as we all know, BPD are not very forthcoming about our problem. In my case, becasue my familial relatioships, and intimate relationships had been BPD, I was convinced that I wasn't the one with the problem.
I think that everyone should read "Walking on Eggshells" just for your own information (read: protection). If you find yourself with someone who starts exhibiting signs of BPD, check your own behaviour first...if you've just had a major crisis in your life, your perspective may be a little out of whack, and things may seem different than usual. If you are quite sure it isn't you, then you should be making a decision. Borderlines can actually be handled effectively...can I give you every scenario here....no.
Suffice to say, that Borderlines are much better off when they have strict boundaries. If something happens, and you say "I will not tolerate this behaviour again" chances are it won't happen again....it's the black/white thing...yes/no. But YOU have to stick to it, and enforce it. Be clear, and definitive...not wishy washy. We are much more comfortable when we know what is/is not expected of us. Oh, and expect the 5 round fight like the one above, where the Borderline explains their same point of view 5 different ways. You will probably have to draw a line on that as well.
If you decide to go forward, you will need to effect some changes, STARTING NOW or the behaviour will get worse.
If you decide to end it....do it now. And make it for real. The Borderline will more than likely beg or plead .....promise things will be different.....you people know about this part......if you decide to end it, it will end much faster, if you don't do the back and forth thing.
This is my absolute best advice, in three paragraphs....I hope it helps.... | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 7/29/2008 12:49:42 PM | | to cinn47 thank you I was very moved by your post. I had a lot of people tell me that I was not bad in enough to get treatment back in the 90s under the Clintonyears, when the money was not there for persons with my disorder as i have two of them. Being which I HAVE Shizoaffective and PTSD.Now the VA sees what is coming at them from this cluster F__k they call a war. how many of them will have to wait to get treatment?? I did 18 months in the Sinai Desert from 1984 t0 1985 ,when a plane of 285 - 101st Airborne )crashed in Newfoun,Canada . my roomate and my best bud, died in it. You know my mental illness and other people's mental illness can come from a mulitude of sources. - PLEASE NOTE THIS.- Remember, the Va is still highly selective in treating its' veterens . | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 8/3/2008 9:15:53 AM | to cinn47 thank you I was very moved by your post. I had a lot of people tell me that I was not bad in enough to get treatment back in the 90s under the Clintonyears, when the money was not there for persons with my disorder as i have two of them. Being which I HAVE Shizoaffective and PTSD.Now the VA sees what is coming at them from this cluster F__k they call a war. how many of them will have to wait to get treatment?? I did 18 months in the Sinai Desert from 1984 t0 1985 ,when a plane of 285 - 101st Airborne )crashed in Newfoun,Canada . my roomate and my best bud, died in it. You know my mental illness and other people's mental illness can come from a mulitude of sources. - PLEASE NOTE THIS.- Remember, the Va is still highly selective in treating its' veterens .
I have a couple of (US) vet friends who suffer from PTSD, among other things, which are combat related.
Through them, I've read a few articles on how the Govt. is putting initiatives in place to screen returning vets more effectively, to detect "unseen" problems.
I think the attitude is changing, from when you sought treatment, ABOUT TIME....and they are beginning to realize that they can prevent catastrophic stuff, like homelessness, etc. if they ACT SOONER.
Usually, the earlier treatment is received, the better the outcome.
I wish you the best luck, jimmycrowell....and the same to all our allied military personnel | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 8/7/2008 6:22:17 PM |
Blonde Phoenix, I congratulate you on what must have taken a lot of hard work for you to be able to share. Most of the "nons" who post in here, are here, because we love, or have loved, a borderline. Some may have a lot of anger in the aftermath, but I think most people, who have tried to love a borderline, want nothing more than for the BP to find some relief from the intensely painful feelings.
That being said, those who are in, or are contemplating, a voluntary, close relationship with someone who has BP, should research what they're in for. A good starting point is "Walking on Eggshells" as has been mentioned in this thread several times. If someone reads that book, and researches further, and then chooses to continue, then it's an informed decision.
Renaissance, you've done it again... Where are you when the booger-eating morons are blasting things they refuse to see, because they're beyond the scop of the bridge of their noses...?
I am a year and a half out of a relationship with a BP which yielded a planned child. I couldn't understand why she would "cash out" on our daughter and the relationship, but I realize now what she was dealing with on a personal level.
Thought I doubt highly that we'd ever again be a viable couple- just a lot of nasty hurt there, on both sides- her BPD and my lack of understanding at that particular time, and the subsequent irreversible hurts... I still love the "good" part of her, and hope that she can beat her own odds. However, I think she's a chronic case, so I have moved on- at least trying to, here in the fishpond. The worst part is having a child, so I will never be able to sever the ties as completly as I now realize would be healthy.
Someone said something about the V.A., and that's another issue I would like to validate here. There are many who slip through the cracks, for whatever reason... In time, as has been the slow case, awareness of the needs of the mentally afflicted will continue to be addressed. At some point, we will understand these things, and they will cease to be a stigma thanks to developing treatment and understanding.
Keep the faith, all...
-damoN- | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 8/7/2008 8:03:35 PM | No whats sad that some who is education like yours thing that now else o pion dont matters just because you think your better. We will see what your diploma gets you on judgment day
If you're talking to me, you picked the wrong day. I have been providing suicide prevention to a BPD woman from South Carolina since last Sunday.....by E-MAIL. No phone calls....messages for five days. My nerves are a little shot, and the woman is realizing that being pissed off at her family, and wanting to punish them isn't gonna do her much good, when she's dead. That's a good thing. Add to that, the other BPD people that I talk to, and it can get a little hairy. And it's all on a volunteer basis.
I have no degree....I have no schooling PERIOD on BPD....I have just lived it for 48 years..with BPD family members and significant others to enhance my BPD pleasure.
Do I know what I'm talking about HELL YES! Do I THINK I know a lot HELL YES!
When people contact ME to handle suicide intervention for a BPD and I'm successful, do I have the right to sound like an expert? HELL YES!
Some therapists don't have the guts to take on BPD, because of the risk of suicide....this is life or death we're talking about here...people with degrees don't have the guts to do what I'm doing.
I am not worried about judgment day, my friend, I welcome it! | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 8/8/2008 4:08:49 AM | | Yes and then I messed up and married the Bipolar, compulsive,obsessive nut. She raged at anything, time, cleanliness, oh and did mention alcoholic. She would throw your clothes and possesion out the window, door and over the deck, including the Christmas tree and all presents. Sure was rough. But the good times were really good. But you never new who was coming home each day. You had to live on pins and needles and sleep with one eye open. She would attack you at any given time. A compulsive liar, drunken alcoholic. Now of course we are almost divorced, but I can tell you after she attacked the last time I have one broken hand, damage to the other, she kicked my knee out and will need surgery again, (she broke it a year ago the first time) and a near broken jaw,and burns to the face from hot water poured onto me. All this and the raging violent language. I can only hope she gets help someday. Because the next dummy will experince the same thing. Good luck to him. Yes it is the "get out-but don't leave me syndrome, coupled with destroying everything in site. These disorders "and" alcohole can be devastating and mostly sad. When she hits bottom someday she may harm someone seriously including herself. I can say, however, that I have met very nice ladies on the web, who can stay sober for more than an hour and can have a real conversation and do more that go out to drink. So be careful all of you whether it is a man or woman, life is too short to be in those relationships. We all have baggage and issues but we don't need that. Good luck to you all. J | |
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