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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/9/2007 5:54:39 PM | If you're going to avoid someone with BPD, might as well avoid all people with severe psychological problems. But that may well mean not dating, or dating people who are unattractive.
For some reason, most of the attractive ones are nutters.
Guess that's why they're still single?
But one rules some people said was "never date someone who's nuttier than you".
So you could either be someone with severe BPD, with MPD (multiple personality disorder), or be with someone who doesn't eat nuts.
At least life will never be boring. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/9/2007 7:37:07 PM | MT female: To say "they (people with BPD) do deserve love too"--love in what sense? In the sense that we should "love the human race"--or love every individual in it? Define the "love" you mean. To be treated with respect as any human would be? Yes, but to interact on a personal level may be very difficult depending on the severity of the disorder with any one individual.
In order to maintain a "relationship" with anyone--with our without any disorder--takes work, on the part of both individuals. Sometimes the "cost" to attempt to maintain a "relationship" with any person becomes "more than it is worth."
People with BPD tend to destory relationships or to maintain very chaotic ones. Relationships with people with any personality disorder can be toxic to the soul of the SO. Parents of people with personality disorders are another group of people who invest their lives in trying to maintain relationships with these people to no avail.
It is unfortunate that anyone has "problems" that cause them to destroy relationships with people who would normally want relationships with them--parents, neighbors, SOs, Children, and other relatives, but sometimes the price to maintain this relationship becomes too "costly." | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/9/2007 8:06:07 PM | | no but I did work for a guy who had the illness in nova scotia back in 99, I had to break my neck to get away from the job and him as he was going trough a ugly divorce! all he wanted to do was work party 24/7 what a ride, please note I really did fall and break my neck on the job, but im 100% now just still a little shell shocked from the ride of trying to keep up with my 54 year old boss, but all in all I never seen him at a low ,I never had that much luck!! lmao maybe if I had of got some rest I wouldn't have fell on the jobsite that day. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/10/2007 9:58:35 AM | "Diagnosing" someone with any "personality disorder" is quite difficult even for a professional and I am a retired professional. However, that said--there are RED FLAGS that can be spotted with a little practice. I have gotten to the point now that it is almost "instinctive" with me when a person with a personality disorder, especially BPD, tries to attach themselves to me.
1) Upon first meeting you, they are very much attracted to you (almost love at first sight)
2) They flatter you, and want to INSTANTLY enter your "circle of trust"--be your "best friend."
3) They offer to do things for you--buy you things, mow your yard, "help you out" even if you decline these offers, they keep insisting on doing things for you.
If you go for 1-3, they then start Phase 2
1) They really would rather you didn't bring other friends along when you go places with the BPD
2) They start calling in the "notes" for the things they bought you, did for you--you OWE them for these things
3) They start to become irritable and angry,
4) Possessive, jealous, suspicious
5) YOU are not treating them right--no matter what you do
6) suidide "gestures" frequently, or threats, break things, destory things
7) They may "cut" themselves
These things all progress until the BPD is totally dependent upon YOU. YOU are REQUIRED to provide them happiness and fulfillment. In their view, YOU OWE THEM, if they are unhappy, it is YOUR fault--and many times they will REVENGE themselves upon you for this perceived fault on your part, then the next day they want to "love" you again, just as if they had not literally held a knife or a gun to your throat the night before and raged at you.
Of course there is a continium of from "bad" to "worse" in the level of a BPD's behavior. Personality disorders are the most difficult to "treat"--sometimes the person with BPD also has depression or bi-polar that can be treated with medication and psychotherapy which will make the BPD behaviors easier to deal with or lessen the impact on but the person and their significant others and families.
Personality disorders alone are not successfully treated in most cases, because the person does not generally see a need to be treated or internalize that the problem is with their own behavior, not others. I would never START a relationship with someone who I know to have this problem. However, if you are already into a relationship of any kind with someone that you recognize has this problem, if they are willing to go for treatment of any mental illnesses such as depression that they also have, and seek therapy, you might want to continue the relationship for any number of reasons and try to make it work even though you should know that it will be a rocky road at best.
If the person who has a diagnosed case of any kind of personality disorder, or has the classic signs and refuses to go for diagnosis or treatment, I would get out of the relationship as fast as I could and not look back. You can't "fix" anyone no matter how much you love them and sacrifice youself for them. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/10/2007 2:07:56 PM |
People with BPD tend to destory relationships or to maintain very chaotic ones. Relationships with people with any personality disorder can be toxic to the soul of the SO. Parents of people with personality disorders are another group of people who invest their lives in trying to maintain relationships with these people to no avail.
Let's not talk about parents, because I have very definite views about Borderlines and parenting and this isn't the place to discuss them!
About love? Yes, it's about respect and it's also about forgiveness.
Borderlines don't INTEND to destroy relationships. The chaos that is reflected onto the SO is only an indication of what the Borderline suffers from internally -- tip of the iceberg. Don't forget, a Borderline doesn't choose that destiny for themselves. It is thrust upon them due to circumstances beyond their control. Borderlines spend most of their lives trying to cope with overwhelming emotions. Some are lucky enough to be able to step back enough to see repetitive patterns of behavior and then take courageous steps to end the cycles. Others, unfortunately, are NOT ABLE to face their pain, do everything in their power to avoid it and therefore, inadvertently, leave chaos in their wake.
A healing journey takes a myriad of steps towards a goal, with some stumbles backwards. A loving and supportive SO can be the best gift a Borderline could ever hope to receive in his/her lifetime.
Coping skills differ from Borderline to Borderline. Most Borderline's lives are ruled by a genuine fear of getting lost in their own pain. If a SO could recognize that and show some empathy, perhaps it would be easier to get a Borderline to seek help. It is highly recommended that SO's of Borderlines have their own counsellors and support networks.
Having said all that, I am a firm believer in having boundaries of behavior defined, clarified and accepted by both parties. Of course, it takes some cognizance and negotiation from the two to make this happen. A third party (qualified) therapist would be the catalyst who could teach different coping mechanisms and help make a relationship work.
I'm not a therapist, nor do I play one on TV. I am merely a survivor. Speaking out about my experiences may help someone else find the courage to face themselves. That's the best I can hope to achieve.
To get back on topic -- I really hope that people who read this thread have a better understanding of what dealing with a Borderline can mean. I hope they know that it's not something that needs to be feared. It's a genuine disability, and one that's not readily visible until some initial emotional investment has been made.
For those that have expressed love for a Borderline and (unfortunately) being burned for it, thank you for saying so. It gives people like me some hope that we needn't face our future alone. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/10/2007 4:02:37 PM | I recognize that many people are born with or develop grave disabilities in their lives. I worked with head and spinal cord injuries for many years as a registered nurse practitioner and being a head-injured quadrapalegic is a GRAVE disability. Many people who are the SOs of these people bail out shortly after the person returns home from the hospital.
Unfortunately, sometimes people are unable to cope with head injuries which "mess up" the thinking of their SO or personality disorders. I can't imagine STARTING a relationship with a person who has a grave head injury that makes them angry and hurtful, I also can't imagine STARTING a relationship with an untreated BPD.
"Life ain't fair"--it isn't "fair" that a person who received a head injury in a car wreck would not be able to find someone to love them. It isn't "fair" that because I am a 60 year old woman who isn't interested in "settling" for a guy with severe alcoholism that I may indeed spend the rest of my life single. It isn't "fair" that alcoholics who have a "problem' and live under a bridge don't have a "fair" chance at finding someone to love them. It may not be "fair"--but it IS life.
I can understand why a wife/husband would stay with a head injured spouse, and I can understand why a spouse would stay with someone who had a stroke, but I can't imagine why anyone would WANT to develop a relationship with someone with a severe head injury or become a caregiver to a bedfast stroke victim who doesnt' k now their own name. If my husband had had a stroke instead of a fatal accident, I would not have deserted him, because we had a stable, loving relationship for years. I would have stayed with him and cared for him, no matter what shape he was in, until the end of his life.
But I'm not going to go out looking for a painful relationship of any kind to start out with--be it a stroke victim, or a BPD. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/11/2007 7:42:29 AM |
But I'm not going to go out looking for a painful relationship of any kind to start out with--be it a stroke victim, or a BPD.
It's too bad that you generalize all BPD's as being the source of painful relationships. On a public dating forum like this, it's quite demoralizing for someone who has the illness. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/16/2007 11:26:25 AM | MadSnorker, as far as "generalizing"--I know that most still-drinking alcoholics are not good chances for a stable relationship either, and I know that these people are "just people" and have the same rights as a person that I do. I know that they have a genetic predisposition to become addicted to alcohol (so it is not entirely their "fault" that they are alcoholics) however, I am also not looking to have a relationship with ANY alcoholic unless they have been sober a decade or more. So if that is making them feel disrespected by me then I am quite sorry about that.
It is my considered opinon, and my professional experience as a psychological medical professional and my personal experience dealing with people with diagnosed BPD that I do not want to have relationships with these people because every interaction I have had with them has been negative. I have treated some people with BDP and additionally bi-polar, and they have been improved markedly with medication for the bi-polar aspect, but their lives generally continued in a chaotic manner.
Why would I want to become involved with any person who does not have at least a stable background. As far as I know, I can be as selective as I want in who I become personally involved with. I may only want to have friends who have green eyes, or red hair. Is that "unfair" of me? Is it "immoral" of me to eliminate everyone from my circle of intimacy unless they hae red hair or green eyes? Since I am not a corporation that is required to hire people not based on gender, age, race, etc. I think I am allowed to choose my friends from whatever criteria I set. If I choose to eliminate anyone from consideration as a potential date, for whatever reason I choose, I don't see how that disrespects anyone or makes them feel bad. I also eliminate "homocidal ex-convicts" too, or bank robbers, or drug addicts or people with HIV. I don't walk by and kick them on the street, but I am not interested in dating them or having them for friends. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/18/2007 8:45:48 PM | | Well my experience was with a woman with 'histrionic personality disorder" - i ended up calling her my "huh" girl because we'd be talking and out of left field she'd start accusing me of past injustices ( some as far back as 5 years ago when i only knew her a year) or other silliness which had nothing to do with reality and i'd go 'huh" lol Anyway these women can be very seductive and charming in the beginning but it soon goes downhill (2-3 months the negatives kick in) Its a rollercoaster ride of emotion i never want to experience again and the best advice as ive read in some of these posts is "run". | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/18/2007 10:37:46 PM | Well, while I realize that none of us are perfect, and we all have "problems" of one sort or another, and no one is 100% "well adjusted"--that having been said, I am still not interested in becoming involved with anyone with a "personality disorder." I have had enough of this in my life from blood relatives that I no longer have anything to do with, why in goodness name would I want to get involved with anyone who is "relationship challenged?"
People who have these disorders do have a problem with relationships, at best. I admire the few people (percentage wise) with personality disorders who do recognize that they do have a problem and get some help (such as is available) for their problems. I also realize that alcoholism and drug addiction are partly genetic, but these also cause "relationship" problems and I am not interested in becoming involved with them either.
I realize that some people have been born with an IQ of 40 and can barely feed themselves. It is a problem for them. But why would I seek out a person such as this and want to date them? It isn't their fault they got a lousy gene or two which causes them horrible untreatable problems. They are also people and "deserve love too"--but I am not i nterested in dating or marry one of these people. Doesn't mean I am going to kick them when I walk by either. I have empathy for people who have little or no chance of having a close, loving and caring relationship. LIKE ME. I am a 60 yr old widowed female who lives in the boonies of Arkansas...what are the chances for me to find a "loving and caring relationship?" Zilch, zero, nada, none, very little--like winning the lottery maybe, 1 in 13,000,000? I deserve love too, so if you think because I deserve love, some of you 30 year old hunks would like to marry me send me an e mail. No? Well, why not? Don't you think we would have a great relationship? I do deserve love too! It ISN'T FAIR that I don't have a good looking wonderful young stud to warm my bed. Just because I am 60 and don't look so good anymore, like I did when I was 20 is no excuse for you to not want to marry me. I am "looks challenged" when compared to all those young things you do date and have relationships with....so BE FAIR to me--OR ELSE.... | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/18/2007 11:01:04 PM | I really hope that people who read this thread have a better understanding of what dealing with a Borderline can mean. I hope they know that it's not something that needs to be feared. It's a genuine disability, and one that's not readily visible until some initial emotional investment has been made.
Let me ask you something. Would you get involved with someone who had cancer? I don't mean had it sometime ago, but right now, being actively treated? You don't know if they're going to live or die. They're getting chemo, getting sick. You're taking them to the doctor, filling prescriptions, doing laundry.Their life is in chaos and so is yours.
Doesn't sound like much fun, huh?
Being emotionally disabled is also chaos to a relationship and causes a lot of distress.
Long term relationships are work by themselves, and will have challenges of their own. Sickness, disability can happen along the way, and if they do hopefully we stay and help our loved ones. I know I have, and not just once.
The beginning of a relationship is supposed to be fun, not filled with emotional turmoil caused by someone's problems. You want to get to know each other, enjoy activities together, travel, enjoy each other's friends, not employ "counsellors and support networks" to help you cope with the problems of your emotionally disturbed SO.
Staying with someone you love who becomes sick or disabled is entirely different than starting a relationship with somone like that. Given that I know all too well how draining dealing with a loved one's problems can be, I'd have to take a pass on this one.
Edit: To oxdrover -- D*mn it, you DO deserve a hot young stud. Not to worry, I'm searching right now. When I've rounded a few up, I'll fly them on down to you. 
I'll try to find some that aren't in Congress. They talk too much.
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/19/2007 5:34:45 AM | Alexandira gal!
Thanks, just send the plane loads into the the airport, I'll go run the cows that are grazing there off the runway and back into the pasture. You said so eloquently what I was trying to make a little humerous.
I have never indicated that people with personality disorders (which I think are partly hereditary from what is coming out in researh now) should be burned at the stake or have to wear a bell around their necks and warn people on t he street to stay away from them. Life is NOT fair, not everyone gets an "equal" break in life. Those bad breaks in life, whether physical or mental , are just "facts of life."
Some people "get all t he luck"--brains, beauty, money, health etc. and others are born poor, mentally retarded, unhealthy, crippled etc. and I am sure these people wish they had "all the luck" as well--but they didn't. It's life.
Because people with personality disorders GENERALLY, not always, have relationship problems; just like many alcholics, drug addicts, people who are mentally retarded, people with assorted serious mental illnesses (which are generally treatable), serial killers, bank robbers, etc. may have "relationship problems" --whether it is their choice or their genetics or a combination of the two, I am not looking to find me an "emotional fix-er upper" to repair. If I have made some emotional investment before I find out (been there, done that, got the tee shirt) believe me at the first hint that someone is "relationship challenged" I am OUTTA THERE.
Your question about cancer is a good one. I think I would be much more inclined to start a relationship with someone who currently had cancer than with someone with a personality disorder. One of the happiest marriages I know, the groom had his implanted chemo drip the day they got married, and it was a "tough" go for a while, but I think she would tell you it was worth it. They had only been dating about a month when he was diagnosed, and she stuck by him. A physical illness in someone you care for is much easier to deal with than irratic, irrational or even mean-acting behavior.
I realize that people with personality disorders have difficulty controlling their BEHAVIOR, but it isn't that they CAN'T--they aren't delusional or "crazy" to use the non technical term, they "go with their emotions" rather than chosing to control their behavior (again, as a general rule). There have been times in my life I have emotionally wanted to kill someone--but I didn't do that because I controlled my behavior in spite of my emotions. There have been times when I was so angry at my late husband I wanted to say to him "I hate you"--but I controlled my behavior and I did NOT say something that I knew would crush his heart just because I felt like it.
We all, as human beings, have emotions that we would LIKE to express in words or behaviors that are inappropriate. We refrain from saying/doing these things because we have learned that if we do them there are CONSEQUENCES to this type of speech or behavior. We restrain ourselves because we realize this. If a person chooses not to restrain themselves then there are consequences, and one of the consequences of being "relationship challenged" is that you drive people away from you.
To say that I have a "disorder" and therefore I am not "responsible" for my behavior is using this as a crutch. I raised an ADHD kid, without drugs, and even though he was VERY hyper, he was expected to be polite, and to behave himself just like any other kid. I have had parents of ADHD kids that would use it as an excuse, "Well, what do you expect, that he not hit the teacher, or not throw his chair in the classroom, the poor baby is ADHD after all." That didn't wash when I was raising my son, and that didn't wash with patients either as far as I am concerned. Yes a personality disorder is a "challenge" but it is not a challenge that cannot be overcome IF THE PERSON IS MOTIVATED to do so.
I have a son who is a psychopathic personality disorder. He killed a girl. He is in prison. Yes, he has a "disability" he has no conscience, but he is where he belongs, and I will do my best to see that h e stays there for the rest of his natural life. There are consequences to behaviors. He deserves the consequences he is getting. He chose his path in life, and it is a complete waste. He threw away lots of "chances"--and there are plenty of psychopaths who are on the "outside" and will never go to prison, who actually don't do criminal things, BUT few if any of them have good relationships of any kind, though some are ruthless "success" stories in politics and industry. Some are also homeless winos livng under a bridge. There is some hereditary links too, my biological father is one, he is extremely wealthy and so is a financial "success" in some people's eyes and in his particular industry is an inovator but personally, he is the single most evil person I have ever heard of including Charlie Manson. My son, who has never met him, has the same facial expressions when he is on a rage or a rant. Coincidence? I think not, I think it is in the genes as well as partly learned, --but even my son can "behave" him self when he "wants to"--or when he "chooses to"--he can be one of the most charming con men I know, but he has never had a successful relationship with a single human being since age 11.
I'll take a nice guy with cancer anytime over a person with a personality disorder. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/19/2007 7:09:56 AM | MadSnorker, you are a lovely, intelligent, wonderful woman. Any men who do not choose to go out with you are people who does not know what he is missing. Their loss.
Also, who wants to date "normals", anyway?
Stephen Fry is a manic depressive. Steven Spielberg has Aspergers'. David Duchovny is a sexoholic, like Tea Leoni. The most interesting, capable, attractive and just damn sexy people all have personality disorders. Maybe we're the lucky ones!
By the way, I have some questions for all the members of POF.
1.You don't want to date someone who:
(a) has BPD, MPD, NPD, or any other disorder,
(b) is a liar, cheat, gambler, or unemployed,
(c) are not initially attracted to,
(d) is too desperate, needy, or too "into" you,
Who's left?
2. It seems that many on POF have dated people with personality disorders. But according to OxDrover (who has said that she is a psychological medical professional), people with personality disorders make their relationships what they are. So don't you make your relationships what they are, too?
3. What better sign of a personality disorder that someone who consistently dates someone with a personality disorder and then blames the person who is considered "ill" for it?
4. What are the statistics for taking a standard cross-section of society, testing them for all types of personality disorders, and finding the ones that are without any at all?
Very, very low, I suspect.
5. People with personality disorders are likely to use some form of medication, or self-medicate using drink and drugs , throw themselves into their work to avoid their problems, try to please people because they are so annoying, and make much greater efforts to get into relationships as they are always having such bad relationships. So they are more likely to: drink alcohol, take drugs, be successful and committed at their work, be charming and get on with most people, and be sexy and attractive to the opposite sex.
So if you are going to choose to date people who have no disorders, then:
(a) Don't look to meet people who are in bars or clubs or anywhere people drink.
(b) Don't go for people with a good job, are successful, or like to work for any more than they absolutely have to.
(c) Don't go for people who are very charming, witty, or funny. These are all techniques for people-pleasing.
(d) Don't go for sexy or attractive people. It takes work to be attractive, and most of the natural qualities are only exemplified by people with personality disorders.
So, if you want someone who is normal, pick the normal guy/gal. This is someone who is fat, unattractive, boring, sad, unhappy in their job, gets paid badly, takes a sickie whenever possible, and is generally the last person you would want to date.
Oh, and a survey was done on this very subject. Most people would rather date a psychopath than a fat person.
I have more to say, but let's face it, this is a worthless thread to any but those with BPD. It convinces them that however low and worthless they feel, you make them look good. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/19/2007 5:55:58 PM | Scorpio, Personality disorders do not make people "charming, witty, or funny." Being physically attractive in the media sense of the word is not intensified by a personality disorder. Many people with personality disorders can't keep a job any better than they can a relationship.
Not everyone who is a "jerk" has a personality disorder. Not everyone who is "nice" (at least at first) doesn't have a personality disorder.
Plenty of people go to bars and clubs who are NOT alcoholics. Plenty of people go to churches who ARE alcoholics, so by your "logic," meeting someone in church is a good bet to meet an alcoholic.
Since you seem to think that all "normal people" are "fat," unattractive, boring, sad and unhappy...generally the last person you would want to date. Does that mean that all thin people are attractive, exciting, happy people you would want to date?
What is sad, unintelligent, boring and pitiful in a person I would personally NOT like to date, is someone who knows nothing at all about a subject, and has to pontificate upon that subject, but uses the "Johnny is a soldier, Johnny is 6 ft tall, Therefore: all soldies are named Johnny and are 6 ft. tall" type of logic.
Most people with BPD are not "evil," but many people with BPD have relationship difficulties. Most people who are alcoholics are not "evil", but many people with alcoholism have relationship difficulties. Most people who are addicted to heroin are not "evil, " but many people with a heroin addiction have relationship problems. Most people with little insight into developing and maintaining functional and successful relationships (whatever their "problem"--see above list for a few sugestions) are not good "bets" for developing and maintaining a functional and successful relationship.
Love and relationships are to some extent. Just like in a hand of five card poker --we get the cards dealt to us. We look at the cards and decide which cards show the most potential to make a winning hand (relationship) and discard those we think are most likely to form a losing hand. There aren't enough days in our "alloted three-score and ten years" to play EVERY hand of poker and there aren't enough days to check out every "potential" date/mate, so we look at the cards we are dealt and pick what we think will be the best chance of a " good match." If that hand isn't a winner, we may stay in the game for a few more hands and more chances to find a lasting relationship (if that is what we are indeed looking for) But why would you keep a "card" that wasn't likely to "help" your chances no matter what you drew?
Just like a poker hand, I am not willing to waste my time, energy and emotions on a losing hand to have a "relationship" that has a good chance of being chaotic and painful at best.
You are right though, there is a pretty high number of people with some serious issues out there from alcoholism to serial murderers--but us old, fat, ugly, dull, stable, nice, "normal" folks---may not be all that "common, " but you know, most of us have also developed a little wisdom along with the fat, wrinkles, etc. and one of the things we have learned is that NO relationship is MUCH BETTER than a BAD one!
Maybe when Paris Hilton gets out of jail she and you can go out on a date. That would be a great hook up I am sure! Personally, I would rather my son picked out one of the fat, nerdy, nice, sweet, caring, kind, intelligent, educated, and "normal' girls to have a happy and good relationship with instead of someone as sexy, exciting, shallow, stupid, thin, spoiled, egocentric, rich and in jail, as Paris. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/19/2007 8:42:41 PM | oxdrover, I am sure that you are quite content with your life, and that you are a very happy person, and a very good person to know in real life.
However, I can say with some assurance that I know a lot more about it than most professionals. I've met enough. I've also diagnosed myself a lot more accurately than almost every professional I've ever met, with the exception of 1 counsellor, who was the first to spot latent hostility in my behaviour (or at least the first to mention it), and she was the 10th.
Most mental health professionals have declared me undateable. Mainly because they don't seem to even begin to understand my situation or plight.
None of my problems have been of my own making. The perpetrators (who I no longer blame) are far more disordered than I am. But that is not how society sees it. Why? Because I am less functional than they are? Possibly. But mainly, because they deny that they have a problem.
In our shallow society, people only look at problems that others draw attention to.
If you were living next to a rapist, the chances are that your neighbours would not notice, unless he went out and told them he was. Then they would laugh it off, till he brought proof. Then they would call the police and say they knew it all along. As if a rapist would actually provide proof and leave it lying around, unless he wanted to be caught. He would probably call the police himself, but would get a suspended sentence for turning himself in.
I have seen this sort of "bury our head in the sand, and hope it will all go away" behaviour many, many times. We English are very good at it. We've been doing it with bullying in the workplace for years. It's been in the schools for years. Every so often, we get cases reported in the news of some schoolboy or schoolgirl who got bullied by their peers until they committed suicide. These are kids under 16.
You have to understand that in the UK, we do not typically get diagnosed early, but late. For physical problems, mental problems, for all problems. Doctors do not check on you, you go to them. If you don't tell them that you did something, they will not check.
So the vast majority of people with major behavioural disorders go undiagnosed and untreated. Here, you can be standing next to someone with a major problem, and you will not know it. So there is a very good chance you can date someone, and only discover later that they have problems. I've met a few people who got stabbed by their partners, several times. They thought it was just something they were going through.
And you are right, personality disorders do not make someone "charming, witty, or funny." Nor do they make them more physically attractive, in the eyes of the media, or anywhere else.
But self-coping strategies do. Those people with disorders that make them difficult to deal with, end up annoying their loved ones so much, that they are made homeless, and destitute, unless they develop mechanisms and strategies to cope with their problems, so that they are NOT forced into the underground of society. So most of them are people pleasers of one kind or another. For the same reasons, they often become perfectionists.
As a result, they make a far greater effort than normal people do to achieve those ends. But they hide those efforts, partly because they take it for granted that this is what they will have to do for the rest of their life, and partly because showing it means that they have a problem. The people you call geniuses, sporting or otherwise, are no smarter than the average idiot. Often less so. But they work 10 times as hard. Diego Maradonna became good at soccer because he played all day, every day, by himself. Same with David Beckham. Isaac Newton said that he discovered the Law of Gravity by 20 years of solid thinking.
So when you see someone like Stephen Fry, or Steven Spielberg, or anyone else with a disorder succeed, it's because of his disability that he pushed himself to succeed, not in spite of it.
Normal people never achieve that notoriety, because they don't have the drive. Don't need to. People get on with them OK, anyway. Not brilliantly, but no-ones going to lose it that badly with them, anyway.
The next time you pass a gym, go in, and check out the behaviour of the people in there. The ones who are going 3 times a week regularly, very often display behavioural issues. Because if they didn't, they would like themselves enough not to bother.
As to bars and clubs, plenty of people go who are NOT alcoholics. But they don't go often, so they go for a friend's birthday, or an office party, or a hen do. They don't go every night. Nor do their parents. If they go, they are moderate with their drinking. They don't need to take someone home just because they are in a club. I've seen people be moderate in those places. But the majority of regulars are regulars because they drink regularly, go home with different men/women regularly, and say that they've gone "3 days without a drink", and get in very sticky situations because of who they've been with, and a lot of them display latent disorders.
I've done the university bar/club scene. Now I'm doing the regular bar/club scene.
And this is what I'm seeing.
Churches are NOT good places to meet people, because churches are seats of spirituality. They are the other end of the bar scene, and any extreme attracts the extremists.
Someone who goes to church once a week, and takes a little of the sermons to heart, is usually quite normal. Someone who goes to mass 3 times a week, and persists in telling everybody what they are doing wrong, is usually a control freak, abusive to their spouses, and very often a secret alcoholic and drug abuser.
You have nothing to fear from the normal people.
It's the saints and the sinners that will have the big problems.
My problems have made it very, very difficult for me to date. Insecurity, a pathological distrust of others, extreme lack of confidence, self-destruction of success, and a whole host of other qualities. The ironic thing is, that most people who got to know me actually thought that there was nothing wrong with me dating. Maybe the fact that I tend to take things literally, or wearing my heart on a sleeve, sure. But as a person to know, no. As a person to date, great. I've had people telling me I'd be a great dad, and I'm thinking, I REALLY need to get some issues sorted first. I always knew it would be a bit of a responsibility on someone to date me, but the benefits outweighed the costs. As long as the person did not have hang-ups of their own, that forced them to play mind games with me. I was not equipped to handle my problems and their mind-games.
As a result, some really great women have been treated abominably by men. Why? Because the men who abused those women are better at mind-games than me. Because of an accident of birth, and a lucky better parental structure, and a better set of circumstances, they were given advantages to deal with life that I lacked.
Should I be denied a relationship because of faults that are not my own? No.
Should I have got treatment by social services at the right time, as is their charter? Yes.
Did I get failed by the system? Probably not, because the system is designed to deal with homicidal maniacs who blame it on the fact that they were abused when they were young. Well, other people had it hard, too. Sometimes harder. But not all of them went and did a Manson, or a Bundy. But these people get sidelined by the system. And the system often ignores them till they take to an extreme. So sometimes these maniacs are being encouraged by the system: A child will resort to any means to get attention, even bad behaviour.
No-one I know, who has known me for years, believes anything but I would be good for someone in a relationship. Even people who know my problems. Especially women I've dated. But according to your definitions, I would be awful for someone.
I've met other people, men and women, who have had real disorders. They have partners, And the partners are happy to stay.
Others I've met, have left partners, who have had no diagnosed disorders, but treated them abominably.
The one thing that I have learned about patterned behaviour over the years is that those people who choose to deny their negative behavioural patterns or choose to do nothing to change or modify those patterns of behaviour, are the dangerous ones. They are either psychopathic (don't care), or sociopathic (pretend it's OK) about what they do to others. These are the liars, the cheats, the drama queens.
I know a woman who lives for drama. Her dramas are quite tolerable, even funny. What is completely intolerable about her, is that she does not let anyone accommodate for them. She refuses to believe that she has a problem, and then causes mass histrionics, and does not let anyone address either the situation, or how it affects others.
I know several women and men, who do exactly the same thing with their issues.
None of these people have a classified disorder.
Several of them probably do not have one.
But as far as their behaviour goes, anyone would come off as bad as anyone with a major, major personality disorder.
As I said, it's not the diagnosis, it's whether your partner choose to live in denial, and whether or not they choose to try to accommodate others.
But you have to remember, all the things that you talked about are not automatic.
They are all skills that are learned: jobs, relationships, getting on with people, these are all skills.
You are no better equipped to deal with them, than anyone else. Unless your skills are better, which takes effort, not good breeding stock.
Personality disorders do not affect these skills. They affect the general running of your life. In that respect, you have it better.
But the people with personality disorders work harder at it than normal people. Because they have to. So their skills are better than normal people, they just screw up more often. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/19/2007 8:46:46 PM | No, but I did date someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It was a nightmare! Everything was about him, and he truly did not understand why it wasn't supposed to be. He would lie, lie, and lie some more. In his mind, whatever benefitted him was o.k. No compassion, no empathy, no sympathy.
I seriously thought that he was borderline Sociopath. Now at the first sign of mental instability, I'm out of there. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/19/2007 9:54:49 PM | Scorpiomover --
You have a few very interesting assertions in your post, that I looked up.
1) Steven Spielberg does not have Asperger's according to any bio on the internet. There are a few places where it is asserted that he had it as a child. All the references are speculation and innuendo, none are confirmed by Spielberg, and none suggest he was ever diagnosed by a doctor as having the condition.
2) David Ducovny is not a sex addict. This is another rumor, and has been proven to be untrue. From David Ducovny's Bio on Tiscali.co.uk:
And he got to star in The Red Shoe Diaries . . . . Here Duchovny played Jake Winters, a grieving widower who discovers his wife's diaries and finds she was having all manner of illicit rumpo. The film spawned many sequels, usually episodic, with Duchovny appearing in each as star or narrator; the premise being that Winters buys small ads asking women to send him their explicit diaries. Only this way, it seems, can he conquer his grief. This series, along with The Rapture and the fact that Duchovny liked to date beautiful women probably contributed to rumours that he had to seek treatment for sex addiction. Untrue. Oh, there's also that famous photo of him naked, pouring tea, and holding his genitals in a teacup. When asked what his wife Tea Leoni thought of it, he replied: "First, I think she thought it was funny. Second, I think she thought I was an idiot for doing it. And finally, she's vowed never to drink out of that cup".
3) Tea Leoni, David Ducovny's wife, is not a sex addict either.
4) Stephen Fry IS a manic depressive, so I guess one out of four ain't bad.
So three of the four people you described succeeded because they are smart and weren't burdened by mental illness. Stephen Fry suffers from cyclothymia which is described as a chronic, but less extreme, form of bipolar disorder. This means with proper medication he should be able to function relatively well.
BTW, there are lots of people who function at high levels without having a mental illness. I'm one of them. I've exercised regularly (around 10 hours a week) for over 10 years now, after losing 90 pounds in 1996. I'm a high achieving, high earning, business owner. I'm happy, and like what I do.
I've had happy relationships, like Oxdrover I'm also a widow. I've never been in a relationship with someone who's mentally ill, and I never plan to be in one. Doesn't mean that people with mental illness are hateful, I just don't want the problems. I am totally happy with the choices I have among non mentally ill men. They suit me just fine.
So in answer to your question "Who wants to date normals?" That would be ME!
And while I'm not going to be dating a fat person any time soon (my bf is downright skinny), I'd date a fat guy before a mentally ill one. As hard as it is to lose weight, it's a hell of a lot easier to do than to lose a mental illness.
Plus, I'm sure I'd get a headache similar to the one I got looking at all those emoticons in msg. 171. What's with that?
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/19/2007 9:59:22 PM | ~OP~ I'm not sure if he was BPD or just a mental conglomeration of lots of disorders. I would assume that yes, he in fact, showed symptoms of this as well as several other things. In my situation, it was impossible to cope with. As for doing so in the future, I have to say ~ no, I would not. I'm not built for certain aspects that go along with depression, bi-polar, and even some PTSD symptoms. I fear that BPD would fall into my "I'm afraid I'm not equiped with enough skill, patience or understanding to be a positive in your life" category. I do applaud those who are much more open than myself on subject. JMO  | |
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cartia
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Joined: 12/15/2006
Msg: 174 | |
| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/20/2007 1:53:38 AM | | Not always easy to pick up on if they have become adept at operating on a social level. In the end profound dishonesty and compulsive lies destroyed anything there might have been. Thing is he actually took some kind of moral high ground....still out there and still performing well but it has to be admitted and help saught. | |
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| Ever date someone with BPD? (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Posted: 5/20/2007 6:22:55 AM | To alexandria_gal, msg #174:
Gonna be a quick one.
1. Probably right about David Duchovny and Tea Leoni.
Not gonna bother debating the issue, no point.
2. Steven Spielberg: Taken from an interview, reported by a reputable newspaper. See
http://www.thejc.com/home.aspx?ParentId=m11s19s158&SecId=158&AId=46401&ATypeId=1.
I always thought that people sued for lies and got retractions these days.
But still up on the internet. Maybe he wasn't diagnosed, but he isn't suing them for printing it, and yes, he's got lawyers who check all that for a living, so its reasonable to assume it's been checked.
3. Stephen Fry. Said he's pleased because he spends all his money and doesn't sleep around. Opposite of most people. Also, I watched the TV prog (on TV here), and the psych who interviewed him, said he came up very high on the scale.
Also, Wikipedia says one treatment is Lithium. But all of the people I know who are on lithium had severe manic episodes, usually very violent, sometimes repeatedly suicidal. They don't give it out to everyone you know.
By the way, when he left the stage, it was big over here. Like pulling a Lord Lucan. Half the country thought he was dead, the other half that he had disappeared and would never come back. You have no idea the publicity in the newspapers, and no, it was NOT a publicity stunt.
I'm sure there are lots of people who are very successful and have no problems.
There are lots of successful businessmen who don't have any problem with doing their accounts. They have an accountant. But sometimes they get stung, like Sting. Or Enron.
The best businessmen have their finger on the button, because they took the time to read their accounts, and to learn what they mean.
But an average businessman does not prioritise that. Doesn't need to. Has an accountant for that. Instead goes out and plays with his family, or his Nintendo.
You lost 90 pounds? You know that doctors recommend NO MORE than 2 pounds a week? You took 45 weeks? Good on you, for that stamina! Anything more, and you could have ended up with serious health risks, and still have.
But why not just go back down to the maximum acceptable for health, say lose 30 pounds? You aren't bothered about fat people.
Anything that risks your health for looks is a clear sign of a disorder.
I wouldn't do it, unless it was under severe supervision.
One more thing: I'm pleased you want to date "normals".
I and everyone else here wanted the same for you as well.
Those with BPD, or something else, would just like to be accepted for who we are, instead of being treated like freaks. I don't care if someone doesn't want to date me, but treat me like and equal, with understanding sympathy and respect.
Do it, and I'll move heaven and earth for you. I've done it before.
Don't, and it would be wrong of me to allow someone who does not appreciate me to see my gifts. Just a waste.
And yes, I do have them.
I was doing amateur sports psychological analysis by 10.
I sorted out 1 case of bulimia by 24.
Let alone my knowledge of maths, science.
The counselling I've come across.
But I'm not qualified, and I should be.
But I can't see a typical "normal" professional pushing ME to get certified, can you?
Please differentiate you all: this is a thread about BPD, not BPDs who lie and cheat.
The thread for liars and cheats is somewhere else.
Perhaps the OP should have rephrased the question, because it is completely misleading.
Especially since there is another thread on dating someone with a mental illness, which covers this. You ought to read it by the way, completely different opinions. | |
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