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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/13/2008 2:55:31 PM | Has anyone ever read Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah, by Richard Bach ?
Some quotes from its "Messiah's Handbook and Reminders for the Advanced Soul":
Perspective - use it or lose it. If you turned to this page, you're forgetting that what is going on around you is not reality. Think about that. Remember where you came from, where you're going, and why you created the mess you got yourself into in the first place. You're going to die a horrible death, remember. It's all good training, and you'll enjoy it more if you keep the facts in mind. Take your dying with some seriousness, however. Laughing on the way to your execution is not generally understood by less-advanced life-forms, and they'll call you crazy. Learning is finding out what you already know. Doing is demonstrating that you know it. Teaching is reminding others that they know just as well as you. You are all learners, doers, teachers. Your only obligation in any lifetime is to be true to yourself. Being true to anyone else or anything else is not only impossible, but the mark of a fake messiah. The simplest questions are the most profound. Where is your home? Where are you going? What are you doing? Think about these once in a while, and watch your answers change. You teach best what you most need to learn. Live never to be ashamed if anything you do or say is published around the world - even if what is published is not true. Your friends will know you better in the first minute you meet than your acquaintances will know you in a thousand years. The best way to avoid responsibility is to say, "I've got responsibilities." You are led through your lifetime by the inner learning creature, the playful spiritual being that is your real self. Don't turn away from possible futures before you're certain you don't have anything to learn from them. You're always free to change your mind and choose a different future, or a different past. There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof. Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours. Imagine the universe beautiful and just and perfect, then be sure of one thing: the Is has imagined it quite a bit better than you have. A cloud does not know why it moves in just such a direction and at such a speed. It feel an impulsion...this is the place to go now. But the sky knows the reasons and the patterns behind all clouds, and you will know, too, when you lift yourself high enough to see beyond horizons. You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it true. You may have to work for it, however. The world is your exercise-book, the pages on which you do your sums. It is not reality, although you can express reality there if you wish. You are also free to write nonsense, or lies, or to tear the pages. The original sin is to limit the Is. Don't. If you will practice being fictional for a while, you will understand that fictional characters are sometimes more real than people with bodies and heartbeats. Your conscience is the measure of the honesty of your selfishness. Listen to it carefully. Every person, all the events of your life are there because you have drawn them there. What you choose to do with them is up to you. The truth you speak has no past and no future. It is, and that's all it needs to be. Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished. If you're alive, it isn't. In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice. Don't be dismayed at good-byes. A farewell is necessary before you can meet again. And meeting again, after moments or lifetimes, is certain for those who are friends. The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly. Everything in this book may be wrong. From: “Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah”
Just some more thoughts to consider...... | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/13/2008 3:08:33 PM |
Has anyone ever read Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah, by Richard Bach ?
I have... I love that book. His book "A Bridge Across Eternity" expands on it and is also a very good read.
Both those books mean alot to me for different reasons. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/13/2008 3:11:31 PM |
Every person, all the events of your life are there because you have drawn them there. What you choose to do with them is up to you.
There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts Soooo true...
Sometimes it is easier to sit in pain.. to feel sorry for yourself and point fingers out at the projection instead of recognizing the opportunity to shine your mirror...
You teach best what you most need to learn. Indeed.
The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly. LOVE that! There are layers and layers to this one for me..
And it reminds me of something I wrote for someone very special to me no longer of this earth:
I know of a caterpillar with no urge to fly. This urge is inherent in a caterpillar’s nature, coded in its soul. This particular caterpillar was abandoned and physically and emotionally scarred. But scars or no scars, urge or no urge, his destiny is to metamorphose and unfold in his true and beautiful form, leaving the scars of old behind to fly above the world as he previously saw it… All attempts to alter this life-course are futile, and with certain inevitability the tell- tale signs of a cocoon will appear... He will be thrust into a process ugly, scary and unknown, to emerge as a breathtaking and inspiring butterfly. I’ll tell him that I never stopped believing in him, for I saw his wings all along…
Don't be dismayed at good-byes. A farewell is necessary before you can meet again. And meeting again, after moments or lifetimes, is certain for those who are friends. Nice :)
I have never read that book Montreal Guy, thanks for sharing :)
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/13/2008 5:55:08 PM | Thank you Sassy! For being the only one to respond to my post.
That was enlightening to me... have you found anyone yet? I'm going to visit Canada soon... within 5 years.
I did want to say that if we talk too much about enlightenment then the fire starts to flicker in our wind.
So everyone... shhhhhhh
quiet... confident... breath deeeeep....
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/13/2008 6:00:33 PM | | Enlightenment always follows an epiphany. The real mark of it is surprise. i.e. You can't drum it up - you can't make it happen. Christ said it was like the wind blowing, you would have held onto to your hat if you knew the gust was coming. Instead, you lost your hat which you thought was so precious. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/14/2008 4:38:51 AM | thanking mguy for message 78....forgot had so much truth and wisdom! richard bach....for those who don't realize he wrote other wonderful books in addition to jonathan livingston seagull.....here is a list in no particular order with brief synopsis for each....in my view a wonderful teacher and writer and reminder....well worth reading at any point on the path of enlightenment (imo)
Jonathan Livingston Seagull: A Story (1970) - by Richard Bach The story that brings hope to every reader! Rise above your flock, tribe, or neighborhood by seeking a higher purpose in life, like the gull who soars like a falcon.
Illusions (1977) - by Richard Bach 'The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah' reflects our collective resistance to simply 'going with the flow' rather than presuming that we know the difference between Reality & Illusion! Bridge Across Forever, The (1984) - by Richard Bach The high-flyer meets his match, and wife, in Leslie Parrish, who grounds him and cajoles him into a mature relationship. Great 'get real' guide.
One (1988) - by Richard Bach An enchanting, lyrical and fascinating joy ride through parallel lifetimes, soul mates, alternate worlds and meeting future and past selves - a real mind-stretcher. Running from Safety (1994) - by Richard Bach 'An Adventure of the Spirit' - This time Richard's flight is introspective as he confronts himself as a young boy who made a promise to himself to write a book about the secrets of life, happiness & safety.
Gift of Wings, A (1974) - by Richard Bach The book of vision that preceded Illusions. Only a man (with the heart of a falcon) truly born to fly could express the freedom of flight with such exquisite joy. Nothing By Chance (1969) - by Richard Bach Another flying adventure researching his environmental theories one magical summer, as our favorite barnstormer in his antique biplane seeks simplicity.
Biplane (1966) - by Richard Bach Seeking to understand Time & Space, our wayward pilot learns to navigate by the landscape and weather the storms of life in his 1929 biplane flight from New Jersey to California.
Stranger to the Ground (1963) - by Richard Bach The solo flight of a man alone on a night mission from England to southern France through a harrowing storm conjures our own deepest fears as we read of his brush with death and renews hope as he survives. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/14/2008 5:37:47 AM | ^^^Awsome... Now maybe I'll be able to find some more of his stuff.
I had a feeling I got the name wrong... | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/14/2008 7:57:29 AM | I read One
thought it was pretentious and childish in a very adult way.
I remember the Master Sergeant who had given it to me to read was angry that I didn't like the book.
But there was a good joke in it that I remember and tell... the one about you can always tell where folks are from when you live in Europe... you can tell if a person is from France or Germany or Poland or Sweden or Denmark...... but you can never tell Italians, you know why?
Cause they already know everything.
I didn't find any enlightnement reading the book you know... not like the enlightenment I feel each and everytime I read the Sermon on the Mount. Especially when I read it focusing on me... cause I'm selfish like that. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/14/2008 9:14:33 AM | A couple of thoughts - I think books can remind us of the states within us we resonate with at that point in time - so when I read Illusions years ago I know it did not resonate as much with me then as it did this morning reading the quotes from it. What's also fascinating to me is it seems an enlightenment, for either a moment to more long lasting, seems to be able to happen pretty much spontaneously through any number of ways.....what an incredible gift....I also agree and feel it is a state of consciousness already within and without all.....so it's a 're-membering'. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/14/2008 9:31:03 AM | Enlightenment by R. L. Absher
Enlightenment is when you have become a self-actualized being, ascended. Transcended reality and live in all dimensions where time does not exsist. Life becomes a steady flow of joy and beauty. Your mind has grasped the meaning of all things as they lay before you and your spatial-temporal reasoning allows you to understand what lies beneath everything that occurs. Your subconsious and conscious mind are completely aware of each other and work in perfect harmony. All things become one in all ways. Because of this you feel no fear, no stress, nothing of that nature. When you do feel pain, you are able to enjoy it for the beautiful expierance it is. Every single little thing has deep rich meaning and every single thing means nothing at all. You are able to see all things objectively and live your life subjectively at the same time. You see can also see the repeating spiral patterns of everything in life. Your mind spreads out in every angle and flows aross all bounderies. You are here and at the same time you are not here, you are in Nirvana so to speak. You realize you can do anything you like and be anyone you want be.
It’s a very pleasant life, I highly recommend it. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/14/2008 1:17:15 PM | I think enlightenment is something that can only come from the inside and very few humans have achieved. One can have moments where they feel that everything is as it should be or moments where everything clicks. But this is only a moment of enlightenment. I think there is to much coming from the outside for anyone in the world to find enlightenment. We can assimilate ideas that make us feel like we are on some journey towards enlightenment however i think these paths only serve to get us to a point where we can think independent of any path. Take meditation for example. One can meditate and feel all fuzzy and good and one might think they have achieved something by doing this. However nothing could be further then the truth. It is only an addiction to the feeling and will not lead you or anyone to enlightenment, or a moment of truth that comes from the inside.
Perhaps though these paths are a part of it all... I mean if no one searched or stretched their ability to open their mind where would we be? I think people just get stuck on the path or someone Else's path to be more accurate.
what distinguishes an enlightened person and someone who isn't? ummm I've never met anyone who is enlightened. Of course we read about people who were considered enlightened but our knowledge of them is second hand knowledge that probably didn't come from someone who is enlightened.
I don't think being enlightened holds any purpose However if someone who is enlightened uses that to do good then his or her actions do have purpose. I think an enlightened person may be freer then others mentally and emotionally however they have the same problems as all of us but have only traded them for smaller versions of them. What is it the Buddhists say that we all have 83 problems from the day we are born till the day we die? or something like that... | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/15/2008 5:18:57 PM |
Enlightenment stretches across divisive lines.. no ONE religion or spiritual path can claim exclusive rights toward enlightenment.. so I am curious... what is enlightenment to you?
Excellent question!
You may include your opinion of the process in getting there, which is always interesting, but my main focus is: What do you think enlightenment is?
A realization that the process of learning is ceaseless, constant, and as vital to life as oxygen and water. If we stop learning, our bodies may function, but our spirits die. n order to learn, one must forget those already-learned behaviors and attitudes that prevent new data from being absorbed. THIS is enlightenment: the process of winnowing what we already know, to allow in new information while keeping old information that is beneficial.
What distinguishes an enlightened person from a non-enlightened person?
Both make mistakes, experience sorrow, and suffer failure. The enlightened person learns something from these experiences, the unenlightened person does not.
Is it an end in and of itself, or a process/journey?
Both, and neither.
What is the purpose of enlightenment.. ?
It's a survival mechanism. Since humans as a species are no longer dominated by the need to procure food and procreate, like our animal cousins, we have a great deal of free time in which to observe our world, and this enriches our spirit. As I said earlier, to stop learning is to die- and the spirit has a survival instinct, as well. Thus, as we avoid death physically, so too do we avoid it spiritually.
Well, some of us anyway. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/16/2008 6:50:24 PM | When you understand the relationship of subject and object, thinker and thought - and how they create each other - you recognize that these are not two, but one. ~ Hsin Hsin Ming
Just a thought which reflects my own. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/17/2008 7:09:39 AM | | hmmm, I can post in a thread in a forum that doesn't exist. Very enlightening. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/17/2008 8:13:33 AM | | lol I am sure it's going to be deleted soon. I found a new forums where I can post religious topics. If you want to know where it is email me and I'll give you the link. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/17/2008 8:19:18 AM | trippy_hare
What distinguishes an enlightened person from a non-enlightened person? Both make mistakes, experience sorrow, and suffer failure. The enlightened person learns something from these experiences, the unenlightened person does not.
and
What is the purpose of enlightenment.. ? It's a survival mechanism. Since humans as a species are no longer dominated by the need to procure food and procreate, like our animal cousins, we have a great deal of free time in which to observe our world, and this enriches our spirit. As I said earlier, to stop learning is to die- and the spirit has a survival instinct, as well. Thus, as we avoid death physically, so too do we avoid it spiritually.
We are trying to progress past the death of the spirit and that is our enlightenment then? We are seeking to understand death or to transcend life... is that it?
Enlightenment is a spiritual survival mechanism....
Trippy Hare, stop feeding the liberals you're scaring the christians! (Good to see you! I mean... good to read your posts as it's been awhile.) | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/18/2008 2:02:05 AM |
and the spirit has a survival instinct, as well. Thus, as we avoid death physically, so too do we avoid it spiritually.
I wouldn't put spirit/consciousness on the same plate as the physical body and it's need for survival. Our spirit may be immersed in our physical bodies, but it is not subject to the same laws that govern our physical nature. Our physical bodies are run by a genetic and neuroendocrine process - the body mind consciousness- or the" default system"- our spirit, (Us) - attempts to lead us out of the shackles of the body (circle of life concept in which we are trapped) and back to our spiritual self. I've mentioned this before on other forums - so at the risk of being redundent - Are we physical beings that have spiritual experiences or are we spiritual beings having a physical experience?
It's a matter of perspective, but a poignant one. We are in these bodies to learn in this incarnation - to grow - to become enlightened as it were. When we know that all our experiences are ment to be, created by ourselves - for ourselves, then we can choose to learn from these experiences and gain - well - enlightenment. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/18/2008 3:20:03 AM | I wish I could understand why you think that way Silivros. You must have established some network of relationships between things, to induce that kind of definition, but I apparently haven't as I can't begin to connect things the way you are.
Once I believed that all of existence was 1 thing finding every conceivable way to interact with itself , and perceive itself, all in an attempt at defining exactly what it was in the first place. I remember following my roommate down the stairwell, and I started imagining 1 thing interacting with itself to create the stairs, my roommate, myself, our perceptions of each other and the stairs, and our ability to walk down the stairs. It seemed to make the most ridiculous sense to me at the time. I suddenly had to laugh at it all. I convinced myself that I had just figured out the universe.
That was almost a year ago, and nowadays I can't even being to follow that line of thinking anymore. It has no weight with me now. It makes no sense. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/18/2008 4:34:37 AM | Once I believed that all of existence was 1 thing finding every conceivable way to interact with itself , and perceive itself, all in an attempt at defining exactly what it was in the first place. I remember following my roommate down the stairwell, and I started imagining 1 thing interacting with itself to create the stairs, my roommate, myself, our perceptions of each other and the stairs, and our ability to walk down the stairs. It seemed to make the most ridiculous sense to me at the time. I suddenly had to laugh at it all. I convinced myself that I had just figured out the universe.
That was almost a year ago, and nowadays I can't even being to follow that line of thinking anymore. It has no weight with me now. It makes no sense.
Sometimes we have flashes of the path to enlightenment -- we see the truth and it is funny! It's because it so clear, so simple. But the Ego comes in and confuses us. There is a definite distinction between how the Ego (the physical being) perceives things and how the spiritual being perceives.
Are we physical beings that have spiritual experiences or are we spiritual beings having a physical experience?
It only makes sense to me that we are the latter.
It's a matter of perspective, but a poignant one. We are in these bodies to learn in this incarnation - to grow - to become enlightened as it were. When we know that all our experiences are meant to be, created by ourselves - for ourselves, then we can choose to learn from these experiences and gain - well - enlightenment.
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/21/2008 7:15:37 PM | Enlightenment is the product of the sustention, of the state of non attachment. When we are not attached, thus aware*, and abide thus we are Enlightened.
*Awareness can be momentary or sustained. When it is sustained it can become permanent. When it is permanent it is thus; nothing further is needed.
What distinguishes an enlightened person from a non-enlightened person?
There is no marked difference.
Sassy,
There is no greater confusion to be addressed than your inquiry and no greater journey to be realized.
Bless you. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 9/22/2008 4:10:16 PM | ^ This successive post is because of my young posting experience; I can not edit previous posts yet.
After posting I realized
When we are not attached, thus aware*, and abide thus we are Enlightened.
needed this revision: "When we are not attached, thus aware*, and abide thus we create a strong foundation and opportunity for the experience of Enlightenment to reveal itself (as it relates to a path).
When I had my first experience of Enlightenment it came suddenly, as is revelations nature. I had been a professional ballet dancer for eleven years at the time. I mention this because dance, at this level, requires a mastery of one pointed attention over extended periods, and this is important to understand. The awareness I employed during work and in between was focused on the carriage of my bones and the positions required of the muscles to place them within space and under gravity. I suspect there is a yogic path that might also employ such means to realization, and this one pointed awareness was a practiced foundation which bared fruit, although I couldn’t have explained it that way at the time. I can only say that from the eventual studying that ensued some nine years after the event which raised my vocabulary on the subject a small bit. I had not been particularly religious by any means. I could not sustain the experience for more than thirty minuets or so, although I had no sense of time during the experience, so I can’t say for sure how long it lasted. What I can say is the first event occurred on an evening in which I had removed the pillow from beneath my head to sleep. I laid my bones across the mattress and fell asleep very conscious of my position. I entered into a dream, one that had reoccurred since childhood. I was falling. Up until that point, I had always awakened at, or just before, impact. On this occasion, I had made a clear decision and opted to die instead. I hit, and died. Instantaneously, I became lucid that I was sleeping (this was my first encounter with lucid dreaming). The more I let go, and let be, the more expansive the experience became. First, I became acutely aware of gravity crushing down on my physical body, and then allowing it to be so. This transformed into a passage through elemental planes resolving in a sense of ever expanding space, a fragile web of acute awareness and inseparability, again allowing it to be so. Then "luminosity", a plane so powerful, so clear, so clean, there are no words to describe it. I can only attempt so as face of God. It rendered me awake, and Samsara returned. I had experienced love as a consciousness that had left me irrefutably knowing, speechless, and weeping in awe. This is where my path started. I can say the experience of Enlightenment is extremely, thinly veiled, humbly so, and, as stated above in this forum (keysguy’s post #36 ), guidance is strongly recommended. For me, the opportunity was ripe, and not without preparation, as removed from spiritual education as my first opportunity was. It requires practice, practice, practice to be able to hang with it.
I'm still practicing. | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 4/29/2009 4:03:24 PM | Well, among other things, spiritual awakening ends the process of seeking. That dissolves. Other hallmarks are the loss of a sense of certainty. Another really important one is to realize that when you look inside your being, is that there is no person, that there is no-one. In other words, you realize that who you really are is a bundle of thoughts, conditioning and habits, that's all. And that the actual "one" is what some call the absolute, which runs the whole thing. I like a description I read once. It's like a radio, which talks, dances and sings, but when you open it up, all you find is a collection of parts.
To further clarify, there are no enlightened beings. Such a statment is a contradiction in terms. When awakening happens you realize that there is no person. Who you think you are doesn't actually exist, except in imagination. A paradox to be sure.
I would imagine that many people might disagree with this post, but if you want confirmation, check out the works of Adyashanti or Tony Parsons in England.
RTTS | |
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| Enlightenment... Posted: 10/6/2009 6:34:18 PM | A word attributed to a whole host of concepts..
Hence the thread ;)
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