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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/15/2008 4:16:44 PM | hmm, what happens if she gets pregnant? and gains weight? dont tell me after having the baby for 9 months is that grounds for divorce too. Most ppl I think its best to think twice before doing a prenuptial especially if the deal is maintaining physique. What if the men gains weight, then what? And also you know that thing you say @ the end "FOR BETTER or WORSE,FOR RICHER OR FOR POORER till DEATH DO US PART" so what's the point of saying that when the either partners gained weight you give up everything bec of it.
Accept the person for their Imperfections you have to because you love the person not bec of just the way they look on the outside. I've seen couples the guy is heavy & the girl looks like Barbie but they have love in their eyes. Same goes with a good looking athletic guy with a heavy set girl like Anna Nicole (before she lost weight) they are happy.... | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/15/2008 5:24:02 PM | Would it be fair to include in a prenuptial that your spouse has to maintain physical health and physique?
I have heard of this in; professional athlete contracts, secret service agents, police officers, professional career military, airline pilots. But I think doing this is not within the concepts of marriage. People who get married don't say to themselves: "I am married now; I don't have to keep in shape any longer. Where is that 2 lb cheese cake?"
As some one who was out of shape and now has a good body for an old coot, getting heavy is something that comes over you, over a long period of time. It is not a thing that we wake up with in the morning all of the sudden.
Also would you be willing to put in a pre nuptial agreement that you will never change? You priorities will never change? Your ideas on life will never change? Your likes and dislikes will always remain a constant, as they are prior to marriage? Can anyone of us assure that we will remain the same and never deviate from what our mate fell in love with? | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/15/2008 6:16:34 PM | msg 297:
To assume that simply because a person is thin and has managed to remain thin throughout the years must mean that they're fit and care for their health is not only a fallacy, but it's laughable.
In my posts, a portion of which you quoted, I emphasized that both partners should maintain health and fitness. That includes (but is not limited to) weight maintenance. It encompasses habits like illegal drug use and excessive drinking along with weight maintenance. Again, some posters want to find loopholes and excuses as to why partners shouldn't have any physical or health-related expectations of each other. It won't fly.
People have basic expectations for each other in a marriage. It has always been that way.
Most women expect their SO to remain employed and financially solvent. Both partners expect each other to maintain hygiene and grooming. Both expect each other to be clean; to be reasonably organized; to pay bills and meet obligations; to remain faithful; to maintain acceptable behavior in public and with family and friends. Weight maintenance is merely one of those simple, reasonable expectations that are within our control.
Even when we guys maintain that BOTH partners should keep themselves up, and when we acknowledge that the effects of illnesses and accidents are different than simple unwillingness, there are still some posters who want to complain about it. The complaints are excuses----it's that simple. People need to be clear about it ahead of time........if one gains weight through unwillingness to maintain reasonable fitness, one should prepare to get dropped. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/16/2008 7:11:49 AM | I am curious to know why some stay-at-home wives let themselves go in such spectacular fashion. Do they not realise it is unhealthy, as well as a terrible example to their children? Furthermore the affection and respect she presumably once had from her partner who hasn't gained weight can only be diminished, not only because of her appearance, but her low self respect. This is a vicious circle.
I have read some very poor excuses for weight gain. Rarely is weight gain genuinely to do with 'hormones' or 'boredom' or 'lack of romance' - what tosh. Women at home have the freedom of the day to go out for stimulation and exercise, whether they have babies or whatever. You can jog or walk fast behind a pram, run about in the park, and make sure your children eat only healthy food - because that is what you eat yourself! Staying at home should mean that you have the time and the means to prepare healthy family meals. It really annoys me to hear that women don't enjoy the benefits of being financially supported whilst bringing up a family by raising healthy and well-balanced children.
Women should stop whining. As far as I can see, gobbling down an excessive amount of fat and sugar is down to a lack of self-control as well as a disregard to other members of the family. People should take responsibility of themselves and if that were to mean that the man would need the assurance of pre-nuptial agreement before marriage, as a sign of her confidence she should gladly sign it (and get him to agree to buy her flowers once a week in return). | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/16/2008 11:29:13 AM |
would you be willing to put in a pre nuptial agreement that you will never change? You priorities will never change? Your ideas on life will never change? Your likes and dislikes will always remain a constant, as they are prior to marriage? Can anyone of us assure that we will remain the same and never deviate from what our mate fell in love with?
This topic has evolved to some degree, as I've read it. It's less about a pre-nup, which isn't really practical, and is more about one partner, through self indulgence, enaging in a pattern of behavior that can predictably be seen as potentially undermining the relationship.
If someone makes radical changes in behavior, that could easily fall into the same category. Take the example of someone who is a high powered businessman,who unilaterally decides to chuck it all, move the family to some small, out of the way place, and open a small bicycle shop, without having discussed it, and having his spouse on board with a complete shift in lifestyle.
This thread isn't about heavy people. It's about people who are one thing, and then post marriage, fundamentally "change the deal". IMO, I don't think most marriages can survive if one of the partners becomes an addict, whether that's alcohol, drugs, gambling, or food. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/16/2008 11:35:13 AM | Go buy a plastic betty because after having children a womans metabolism changes...maybe we should put a claus in the pre-nup that if you ever get erectile dysfunction..we can have extra curricular activities outside the union...thats about as stupid as your request. I can't stand superficial people...I have had 6 children and look great because the people around me value me as a person...not my physique. No pre-nup needed. Fullfilling marriages are made of something much deeper than the surface. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/17/2008 4:24:47 AM | Is one reason more valid than the other? Nope. And as much as you hate to hear men say that they don't want their women to chunk up because they don't find it at all arousing....Women LOVE to say it's all about LOOOOOOOOOOVE, but I don't buy it for a second. They are just as shallow in at least as many ways as the men....~capitano~
^^lol ..you never surprise or dissapoint me with your "indignant" views and comments....about women and mothers in general......at least your consistent in your views...
Now if you really want to keep things on an equal level (as you have consistently lobbyed for in other threads) with women.....How about you get out of your car through your exhaust....and let us all know what that did to your body??.
OP's title of this thread... ****maintaining physique - is it reasonable?****
^^^the smart woman would include a "no masturbating" clause and a" minimum hairline" requirement for that guy who was stupid enough to propose and sign such a document....but I digress....let's pretend that such an agreement like the OP suggests would hold up in court....oh right....silly me...this was a moral issue right? | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/17/2008 5:43:39 AM | Razzle.
Hmm...this Saint of a woman was the predominant caregiver for her children, the father had little to do with the home (other than paying bills, food by working and providing a home that could be taken care of) but the children took the mother for granted? 2nd thread I've clicked on and 2nd faerie tale I've read. Then the woman abandoned her 4 children and did well for herself while wondering why one of her sons was only interested in contacting her because of her wealth. Is it any reason that's the only reason he wanted contact with her? The kind soul that helped her out of her marriage, did so out of the goodness of his heart, and I'm assuming it's a male, that part would make the most sense...Alex, I'll take BS posts on POF for $1000.
OP.
I would say that it's a reasonable expectation to believe that other than sickness, valid physical reasons, that during pregnancy and up to a year after pregnancy that a mate take care of herself physically. I'm a regular male, not like the exceptional ones who say appearance don't matter. Something has to matter to the exceptional ones though because we're all still single eh? Males are visual based (for the most part) and unless it's been a long involuntary dry run, looks matter for attraction. If the man keeps himself in shape and takes pride in how he looks (except if he gets ill or pregnant) for the woman, it's a reasonable expectation for his mate to do the same. I'd say the wisest course is to find a person that believes in this issue like you do other than mandating reciprocating consideration on a legal document. A woman might say she doesn't mind signing that into a prenup., but women have long memories and will wait till years later to get you back for suggesting you assume she's going to turn into a lazy cow in her old age. If you're wanting to protect your money/property/investments there are better ways to do it than a prenup. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/23/2008 3:30:44 PM | Renaissance Man I have been observing your postings on this issue. I suppose you have the right to feel like you do, just remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what you don't want anymore someone else will find desirable. It has taken me many years to get past my ex husbands unkind comments about my appearance when I was married, and I was not near as heavy as your ex was. Maybe you didn't do yourself or your family any favors by staying in the marraige, you probably should have left after you felt so betrayed by your wife's body, that way she could have found someone who could love her for what she was.
Prissypants, it's hard to second guess my willingness to stay in a marriage, with the mother of our children, while our children grew up. Our daughters have exceeded our fondest hopes for them, when they were born, and none of the fears that parents have, were ever realized. They maintain strong relationships with both parents.
Which is kind of the greater point, from my perspective. A first marriage, or any marriage that produces children, is about something greater than the personal happiness of the adults. So, I didn't leave the marriage, while our daughters grew up, because I was no longer attracted. It's kind of the way it was in marriage, until the last 30 years or so.
For the record, I honor and cherish my ex wife, as the mother of our children, and I will always feel some responsibility for her welfare, should there be a crisis in her life. I don't demonize or despise my ex. I am not, and haven't been, the least bit attracted to her as a woman, and that all comes down to weight. I can't sexually respond to a heavy woman. I never could, while sober, even in my 20s. On the other hand, I respond strongly to thin/slender women. It's not a "preference". It's absolutely hard wired, and it's not a matter of "fairness". It just "is", and trying to change that would be like those efforts to "reorient" a gay person, so that he/she will be "straight". It really wouldn't work.
The other point, though, is that, unless there is a "higher purpose" being served in the marriage, such as the right of children to grow up in a 2 parent home, if that's possible, there is nothing to hold a marriage together, once the "higher purpose" has been fulfilled. If a woman knows, from the start, that I am not attracted to heavy women, but then chooses her Twinkies and Mountain Dews, it's not "acceptable" for her to try to "guilt" me with "if you love someone, it shouldn't matter". It's fine for people to tell me what I "should" feel, but it won't change what I "do feel".
Most men and women can choose to remain somewhat attractive. Aging is gradual and natural, and your partner is also aging. Our "eyes" adjust to natural aging. Serious illness, injury, etc.. are unavoidable, and somehow, most people adjust to that. A spouse battling cancer wouldn't be "about me", but about responding with understanding and emotional suppport. On the other hand, a wife who knows that I am not attractive to heavy women, but who puts on weight anyway, because day by day it's "easier" to satify her cravings, and then "guilt" me, is really self-absorbed, and her behavior has "rejected" or "dismissed" the normal needs of a spouse in a marriage.
In the context of this thread, no, prenups won't work, but most of us don't need pre-nups. The fact of things is if someone chooses to let himself/herself go, then he/she shouldn't be surprised if the other is no longer attracted, and if attraction dies, so does the sex life. Some people don't care that much, but, for me, a relationship without a strong sex life would be pointless, unless there is a "higher purpose". | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/23/2008 3:43:03 PM | Weight is only one factor... if someone stops caring about the other person's feelings, stops wanting to attract them sexually and respond in kind... it is hostile behavior and I would not put up with it.
Gaining weight over time as we age is somewhat normal to some extent, but ballooning out over 100 lbs is not normal or acceptable. I would not want to feel stuck to some guy that had so little respect for himself or for my attraction level.
Having a prenup over it? No,
I honestly don't believe in prenups. If there is concerns about combining finances, I think it best you just don't do it. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/23/2008 4:07:52 PM | Good post Janet... Agree with you except this part...
I honestly don't believe in prenups. If there is concerns about combining finances, I think it best you just don't do it.
The problem isn't combining finances... it's the untangling of them AFTER one splits up that's the issue. At that point... without a prenup.... one has just blindly handed ones future/fate over to the government with their one size fits all solution as to how to dissolve the financial partnership. << That is how the government views it.
I think this notion of the OP's is plain silly... however, pre nups have value for the couple to decide how they want to handle the dissolution of their relationship - should the wedded bliss go splat. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/24/2008 7:54:49 AM | ItsMargo,
The problem with pre-nups (for purely financial concerns) is that they do NOT necessarily keep you out of Court, and the savagely expensive and draining financial meltdown that follows.
Contested divorces are not a one-size-fits all solution, they are more like financial "chicken" where both exes drive fast at one another and see who dodges first and gives in. If neither dodges, your basic choice winds up going from some mildly unfair 50-50 or 60-40 type split, to a four way split between him, her, his lawyer and her lawyer, in which the lawyers' chunk gets bigger the longer it lasts.
Pre-nups also suggest both parties view the marriage as temporary, and it's that attitude and not the pre-nup that bodes badly.
As far as the pre-nup about keeping fit...let's be serious here. No one but an idiot would actually put it into a pre-nup. And with a 50% divorce rate, who is seriously going to argue that it's not a "silent clause" in a high percentage of the marriages out there ?
EDIT: And we all know how it works. He gets distracted, stops giving her attention. She feels badly, stops taking care of her looks. He gets turned off, less desire. Or she suts him off, because he's not in contact emotionally. Or both. And downhill it goes. Sure, there are divorces where it's all one side's fault, but not nearly as many as the divorces where each side thinks it's all the other side's fault, and refuses to acknowledge anything different. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/24/2008 9:23:33 AM | I agree with the idea of not mixing finances--if I ever have a more permanent relationship, we will keep our accounts separate and share bills. However, it's not only cash that's affected when a marriage or cohabitation ends, there are issues of belongings, personal effects, and home equity to be considered.
On the one hand, I think prenups are as morbid as planning a funeral before you've passed away. On the other hand, it is a good way of making sure things are looked after so, if that person you're trusting to be fair and reasonable isn't the same person at the end, you don't suffer the added heartache of fighting over those issues.
As for keeping a body fit. I know women who work fulltime (there aren't very many parents who stay home with the children these days), come home and do the majority of the childcare, cooking, housekeeping and yard work. The man does a smaller portion on those same duties even though he works the same hours and the rest of his time is spent on entertainment, relaxation and criticizing his spouse. If they were sharing those duties equally, and she had the same amount of free time that he does, I'm sure that maintaining her body would receive a larger commitment. So the time and duties to me must be more equal so that each partner has the time, money and energy to spend on maintaining health and body if there are going to be such qualifications.
As well, this kind of contract kind of throws out the whole "in sickness and health in good times and bad" thought process and promise.
Nutt | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/24/2008 10:43:28 AM | I am sitting here laughing with this mental image in my mind...
Let me ask you, if you fell in love with and married someone and they went to war and lost a limb, or a sex organ, or their face was blown off, would you still love them and care for them?
The problem with "marriages" in the post modern society is that unconditional love isn't even a consideration. How fu**** shallow!! Don't get married if you're not willing to give 100%! Hire a "body guard", a "food monitor", a personal trainer with a long stick.....
I'm nauseated. | |
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zeeba
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Joined: 8/31/2008
Msg: 320 | |
| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/24/2008 10:51:39 AM | Twinkies and Mountain Dews,
Sorry if I offend anyone...but I LOVED that, Ren! OT for just a second, it's amazing how many students I see in my workplace eating those types of combinations for breakfast. And again I may offend people, but I'm definitely seeing more and more 18-year-olds (men and women) who are seriously overweight at these very young ages. Not good.
Well, I have to think about this topic. I like taking care of my one and only bod and physique, and I've posted before about going on a diet a couple of years ago to lose 20 very unsightly pounds. So, I'm probably not too sympathetic about letting one's self go.
Now, I definitely have a "tiny" sag I didn't have before...but that's going to happen at this age. I must also confess that I have a need to use facial moisturizer in the a.m. and p.m. -- the skin is just a little bit drier these days. And heaven knows, I'm not expecting a muscled, chiseled bod in return. However, I'm interested in men who do take care of themselves and are into healthy lifestyles. Other things such as illness are inevitable, but if the man and woman have that connection, I truly believe the relationship can withstand those types of things.
Of course, I haven't been married, so what do I know, correct? | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/24/2008 11:08:11 AM |
'One particularly disgusting woman even suggested that such men just "Grow a Penis" NICE!'
Can he please grow it out of his forehead? Thanks ...
OMG that's too funny....coffee just came out of my nose...roflmao
I'm not expecting a muscled, chiseled bod in return. However, I'm interested in men who do take care of themselves and are into healthy lifestyles. Other things such as illness are inevitable, but if the man and woman have that connection, I truly believe the relationship can withstand those types of things.
Exactly...call it vain if you want, but I notice things that I need to work on long before anyone else notices, and unless something completely out of control happens, I'll always want to look good - for me. The hot guy who appreciates it is just a bonus...
But in a relationship, it's better to have common ground and a similar lifestyle - so for the life of me I don't know why I would want someone who eats crap and doesn't want to stay in shape. If I met someone who did and after I got serious about them they just up and decided they didn't feel like being bothered to keep up with themselves and they give up, that's not going to go well. Two fit people should be able to motivate each other and stay healthy together fairly easily...it should be WAY easier than two who don't live the same way.
I agree that outside circumstances can change things over time, but I agree that there's a difference between not being able to keep up due to things you can't control, and just not wanting to cause you don't feel like it. | |
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zeeba
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Joined: 8/31/2008
Msg: 322 | |
| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/24/2008 11:12:59 AM | Amen to that, DJChickie (and I always appreciate your posts, BTW.)
Interestingly, after I lost those 20 pounds, I really got back into practicing yoga -- which quite frankly, I hadn't been able to do for several years. And, I'm by NO means an athlete. I have very little coordination. But, it's perfectly possible to stay in shape via a variety of activities...
(And I am stopping right there for now...before I really get into trouble!) | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/25/2008 12:50:44 AM |
Sorry if I offend anyone...but I LOVED that, Ren! OT for just a second, it's amazing how many students I see in my workplace eating those types of combinations for breakfast. And again I may offend people, but I'm definitely seeing more and more 18-year-olds (men and women) who are seriously overweight at these very young ages. Not good.
Well, I have to think about this topic. I like taking care of my one and only bod and physique, and I've posted before about going on a diet a couple of years ago to lose 20 very unsightly pounds. So, I'm probably not too sympathetic about letting one's self go.
Now, I definitely have a "tiny" sag I didn't have before...but that's going to happen at this age. I must also confess that I have a need to use facial moisturizer in the a.m. and p.m. -- the skin is just a little bit drier these days. And heaven knows, I'm not expecting a muscled, chiseled bod in return. However, I'm interested in men who do take care of themselves and are into healthy lifestyles. Other things such as illness are inevitable, but if the man and woman have that connection, I truly believe the relationship can withstand those types of things.
Of course, I haven't been married, so what do I know, correct?
Zeeba , for the record, you look absolutely adorable. Very pretty, very well maintained body. If at the age of 46 I have a wife that looks like you, I'll be one happy mofo.
Interesting you don't have kids... you don't theoretically qualify as a MILF then, but it's just semantics anyway.
Keep it up the good work Zeeba. Bless you. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/25/2008 2:00:12 AM | As for keeping a body fit. I know women who work fulltime (there aren't very many parents who stay home with the children these days), come home and do the majority of the childcare, cooking, housekeeping and yard work. The man does a smaller portion on those same duties even though he works the same hours and the rest of his time is spent on entertainment, relaxation and criticizing his spouse. If they were sharing those duties equally, and she had the same amount of free time that he does, I'm sure that maintaining her body would receive a larger commitment.
I love the excuses people come up with on the weight issue. Why, exactly, isn't the man in this scenario doing an equal share of the housework? Actually, it doesn't even matter. The time excuse doesn't cut it because caloric reduction alone will cause a person to lose weight without expending any extra time or energy. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 10/4/2008 10:28:27 PM | Reinasance Man I agree with you completely, I dont think I could get excited if there is a beer belly on the way while making love. On this thread they are only talking about physical appearance which means man or woman who got married should retain thier eating habit to stay the same in Physique. Illness is different, something that one gets and couldnt help. | |
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