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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/7/2008 8:50:23 PM |
The "marriage" part though, has left me realizing that, body type will ruin the marriage. Short of a rock solid guarantee, about that issue, I will not marry again. So, as I said, I think the OP has a point.
Perhaps you should stay single, as true love is not based on the size of your spouses body, but more the size of their heart. It is becoming clear to me that when a lot of people say they love someone it has nothing to do with love at all, but rather they are just attracted to that body and face at the certain point in time. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/7/2008 9:03:59 PM |
However, other things are entirely under someone's control, and if they change for the worse, it's because a person is too lazy, selfish, or uncaring to pay attention to his/her spouse's needs. Weight is a simple matter of taking in more, or less, calories than one uses in a day. Responding to one's spouse sexually, is not only part of the "marriage covenant", it's a simple matter of valuing the marriage. It's the primary purpose of marriage, after all. Without sex, it's just friendship. Excessive gambling, drinking, drug use, are all volitional things. Having an affair is something one can choose to do, or not do.
Okay... I've read about the fat women letting their men down but whoa... just hold on a minute! The primary purpose of marriage is for 2 people who love one another to live and grow through life's experiences together. It isn't for either partner to suddenly allow themselves to be consumed by their partner's sexual needs over and above, everything else in life. Particulary, when in the past, so many women have found that as soon as they are married, they literally drop off the "person" scale and find themselves being treated like appliances or things that are only worthy of attention when he decides he has "needs". Being a loving, attentive and helpful husband is also part of the marriage covenant.
Many times over in my life, I've seen women gain weight when they are suddenly expected to slam 3 meals a day plus on the table (when they themselves are not the slightest bit hungry). Ive listened to many women talk about how as soon as she was married, it was like she ceased to exist except for when he wanted something. I have watched these same women eaten up by their loneliness instead of taking on a romantic lover who makes them feel valuable. Building their bodies into brick chithouses is often how women tell their husbands that they resent being treated like appliances or chattels, to be used and tossed off to the side. Why do they choose to comfort themselves with food? Because he doesn't care enough to listen...
It's so easy to make it seem like a woman just gets married and decides to let herself go but if you sat down and talked to these wives who have gained a substantial amount of weight, I think people would find that these are women who are locking themselves down because they are trying to honour their marital commitments. Sometimes, their husbands are lousy, selfish lovers... Other times, hubby isn't even a lover... He's an erection looking for a stress-buster... Oftentimes, she stays so that her kids still have a Daddy even though she realizes she no longer loves him or even really knew who he was when they married. Such women inevitably lose a great deal of weight when Mr. I-Have-Rights moves on.. unless of course, it's gone on too long and she now believes that no one would ever love her...
So.. how about a pre-nup that includes shutting the damn t.v. off (even when there's a game on), paying attention and being willing to listen when he's being spoken to, helping out around the house without having to be nagged, picking up after himself and leaving things as clean as he finds them, thinking up romantic and surprising things to do that are just about them, asking her out on "dates" and putting his "buddies" aside once in awhile? How bout including that at least every third lovemaking session take no less than an hour and optimally, more?
If you want a pre-nup based on weight, looks or desirability, I'll draft one up for you but I don't think the guys are gonna like it much...
For every woman that gains weight rather than runs out to cheat and find the love that they're missing at home, there's usually a partner who has some stagnant and extremely chauvinistic ideas. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/7/2008 9:05:32 PM | Renaissance Man 1950 Said"I think that some people have an unrealistic view of romantic love. "
I have a very realistic view of romantic love. Romantic love alone isn't worth much at all. If the only love you have for a person you are involved with is romantic love, then you would be very smart to not marry them. Romantic love is the least important of the three kinds of love you should have for a spouse. In order of importance: family love for your spouse, friendship love, and then last: romantic love.
Renaissance Man 1950:" SaidThe only truly unconditional love I have for people, is the love for my daughters. No matter what, I will love them as their father. If my mother were alive, that, too, would be unconditional."
I am truly sorry to read that. That is very sad. For me, there is one( I may never even see him again) if he ever came back into my life, I wouldn't care if he weighed 500 pounds and was as bald as an egg, I would be thrilled beyond words to be with him again. Keep in mind that as far as looks I like very thin men with very long hair. It was never his looks, but rather the fact that he made my spirit feel happy and at peace. I will love him as long as there is a speck of me in the universe.
Renaissance Man 1950:" Said Other loves, of friendship, and romantic love especially, at some point, has "conditions". Really, it comes down to, if someone you love, drastically changes something, that it is in his/her ability to control, then love is tested, and sometimes fail. Those who are critical of people saying, "if you become obese, love will fade", would be the first to say that it's foolish to love an abusive man, or someone who becomes alcoholic, stops going to work, etc.. Love will endure in "sickness and in health", but if one chooses twinkies over her spouse, should she still expect to be loved "no matter what?"
If I love my spouse, and my spouse loves twinkies I will just have more of him to love. You can not compare a drunk/and or abusive man to a guy that eats to much and gets fat.
Renaissance Man 1950 Said:" Of course, that can't be "enforced" in a pre-nup, and because it can't, I am unlikely to marry again. For me, the whole realm of physical atraction and sexual expression in a relationship, is what makes it a relationship, rather than friendship, and if one or the other fundamentally changes for the worse, it calls it all into question."
I really hope you don't get married again as a marriage is a lot more than a sexual relationship. Marriage is a lot more than a relationship period. Your spouse is meant to be your closets family member, your best friend, and lastly your lover. I am divorce because I was stupid enough to marry without real love. I would love to get married again but only if real unconditonal love was felt by both of us.
For some reason I had problems getting the quote thing to work on this post!!! | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/7/2008 10:34:14 PM | Well if you think the woman should sign one regarding such things. Then how about we make men sign one not just for weight but if they lose their hair.
What you don't count on there are medical conditions that can do many things to the body and that includes; hair loss, weight gain, or loss etc. Let;s face it you really don't care, you are a shallow type of guy. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/7/2008 10:41:36 PM | You have quite a few questions about mate selection.
Unfortunately your requirements are so unreasonable I am thinking terrestrial human females may not be your bag.
I would start looking for Dr. Evil and his harem of FEMBOTS.
He has what you are looking for yeah BABY
Jim | |
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Sivoph
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Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 107 | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/7/2008 10:49:05 PM | I can't physically respond without attraction. It's not like it's something I want to be true. I wish it were otherwise, but it's simply fact. I was married for 20 years to someone, who I told how I respond to obesity. Funny, cuz she was able to lose weight, and keep it off, to attract men, when she was looking to get married. She was average weight, when we go engaged. So, it's "ok" that she put on 100#+, when the one thing I asked of her, prior to marriage, was to not get heavy?
No... it's not okay... But I think if you are going to continuously use her weight and her willingness to honour your demand, you need to open the floor to our examination of "why" she put that weight on. You've already said, on literally every thread here on POF, that you got married "for the higher purpose of having children". To me, that sounds like a man who simply needed a womb for his offspring and someone to raise them. It doesn't sound like "love" Ren...
I'm willing to almost bet my last pair of cotton socks that your ex's weight problem was not only the product of a lonely existence for your wife but also a strong and rebellious statement to you about how much your needs mattered to her when hers got what looks to be, pretty short shrift from you.
The more you write, the more I see a woman who cared very much about how she looked (because she lost the weight) and about whether she was attractive to you (because she lost the weight and married you) but gave up when she realized you expected your needs to trump. I'd give that same pair of socks to have her come aboard just once and talk about what you were like as a husband that she felt the need to shroud herself. Like many women, she likely "spoke" to you with her weight, in the only language you could understand. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/7/2008 11:08:40 PM |
You can not compare a drunk/and or abusive man to a guy that eats to much and gets fat.
If it's an eating disorder, actually you can compare them. There are all kinds of activities one can engage in to escape the realities of every day life and overeating is not excluded. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/7/2008 11:24:40 PM |
This will be the last post about my ex. I'm not comfortable going into detail about the mother of my children, a woman I do honor and cherish as "my kids mom", and to whom I was married for 20 years.
Strange that you would suddenly become noble enough to cut back on posting about her weight problem now after you've spent so much time on POF blaming her for the lack of sex in your marriage and its eventual break? Why worry about that now?
You have said that you did not love her for the last 15 years of your marriage. As others here have tried to tell you, for many of us, love is about far more than just getting our needs met. It's about seeing the wonderful traits a person has and THOSE are what many of us make love to when we crawl into bed.
I think that a guy who can only make love to a woman who looks a certain way, has a lot more "weight on" than the guy who can recognize the wonderful things about his wife.. such as the fact that she gave him 2 beautiful kids with that same body. It's entirely possible that he's stuck in his fear that he will have to get past his attraction to 20 or 30 year olds... He might actually have to become "intimate" with his partner in the truest sense of the word rather than just sexually. Pretty tough stuff for a guy if he fears for his own ability to remain virile...
My ex had had weight problems throughout her life, but had managed to lose weight and keep it off, in order to find a husband, and put it on, once she felt "secure" in her marriage. She, by agreement, was a stay at home mom, and had a pretty nice lifestyle.
I sincerely doubt that she felt "secure" in her marriage.... How could any woman feel secure knowing that if she gained a few pounds, her husband would no longer love her? How could any woman feel secure if she was already well-experienced with weight battles and started to put on weight with a husband who had already told her that was taboo? That doesn't even make sense.
You have said that you didn't love her for the last 15 years of your marriage... Do you honestly think a woman doesn't know when her husband doesn't love her?
I have my flaws and faults, obviously, but she very much wanted to try to work things out, and tried, up until the day we were divorced, to "get another chance", and tried, even after the divorce, to get me to come back. By then, it was too late.
The above statement implies that she had very left in the way of self-esteem or she was just scared to try life on her own after getting used to not being loved for so long. People can get used to almost anything... especially when it is to avoid having to face a deep fear. If I'd spent 20 years with someone looking at me with disgust and treating me poorly, going so far as to even think he had the right to cheat on me... suffice to say, my self-esteem could safely be considered, in the proverbial toilet.
For me, without sex and passion, I'd rather live alone.
Which gets us right back to seeing women as appliances rather than as human beings. While I love making love with someone I love, I know that if for any reason, that had to end, I could continue on right beside him... Many of us would also rather live alone than to have to constantly worry about whether or not we meet someone else's expectations and needs.
I hope Ren, that you find that complete and utter love of which I speak before you come to the end of your journey. To live without ever having known it is a sad thing. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 7:38:45 AM |
Posted By: Sushi-girl on 9/8/2008 2:05:47 AM
Message: Okay, but there's got to be a clause about balding in there for the guy then. I want an annual hair count!
Equating baldness with laziness and gluttony is perfectly reasonable.  | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 7:53:44 AM | to maintain what you have - is it so unreasonable ???
we love who we love and we should be committed yes... we all agree to that but there are definetly some things we all have control over..
balding, sickness, job loss, those things can't be compared to something like your eating and exerising habits. but i think it should go both ways i have seen men that 'let themselves go' after marriage too
boy !!! i bet the orginal poster is sooory he ever opened his mouth!!! everyone has really creamed him !! does it sound shallow - yeah / is it enforceable or recommended - of course not / but is the question really so unreasonable ??? | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 8:11:06 AM | The one thing I wish is that the simple mentality of maintaining one's self was more ingrained in people in general, male and female alike. Most citizens are simply lazy, hapless weaklings when it comes to training discipline...
Sure I'd sign such a pre-nup, because I'm not worried - I'm a fitness addict/Nazi. The reason why? I did the whole letting yourself go thing in my past: just fortunately for me I did it early and snapped out of it while there was still time to be saved - in my teens.
What most people seem to lack is basic discipline - everyone wants to party it up, eat the richest things, drink themselves silly, enjoy the finest conveniences & avoid labour, and yet somehow still hope to slip into their favorite outfits without any physical effort. That to me is simply ludicrous, the human body starts breaking down from the moment you are born, only by training it rigorously can we stave off the decay and rejuvenate ourselves somewhat.
It's a losing battle to be sure because we're all going to die and we're all going to age, but I prefer to fight it day in and day out than to just sit back and let things run their course unabated, which is what happens with a lot of couples - they're simply content to sit back and plump up together. Sounds great in principle, except that one almost invariably always plumps up quicker than the other, at which point they turn around and ask "what the heck happened to YOU?!" and the problems ensue... 
Don't get me wrong, devising a pre-nup to attempt to resolve this issue is laughably absurd, but the North American legal system tries all kinds of stupid sh*t these days. 
I for one would gladly sign it, as I train rigorously such that my weight & proportions don't vary more than +/- 1 lb at any given week over the past DECADE. If I even START to feel sluggish, I whoop myself with an intense boot-camp regimen to get back on track.
Once you've crawled back from fat to fit by your fingernails, I guarantee you that you will sooner kill yourself than allow yourself to go back if you can help it (barring crippling injury). Food for thought.  | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 8:13:30 AM | I had friends who actually did this! They BOTH agreed to maintain a reasonable standard of fitness as long as it was medically possible to do so through diet and exercise - they wanted to prevent the laziness or indifference that can lead to inactivity and health problems. It seemed to work for them, but eventually the marriage ended for other reasons.
I don't think it's unreasonable if both agree to the same standard and it's important to both people. It's certainly unusual, and I wouldn't make it an issue, personally. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 8:24:16 AM | | If she's signing an agreement saying she'll stay fit, maybe you should sign an agreement saying you'll maintain an erection until she orgasms at least 3 times per sexual encounter. I mean, you both have to get what you want, right? | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 8:27:00 AM |
Would it be fair to include in a prenuptial that your spouse has to maintain physical health and physique?
Most people have basic expectations of future spouses: that they remain financially solvent, employed, crime-free, and that they stay away from substance-abuse. If it's important to you, OP, I see no reason why weight maintenance couldn't be one of those criteria. Pre-nups are a smart, hard-headed way of managing risks associated with marriage. Pre-nups are not very romantic; but it's understandable why either partner in a relationship might want one. Obviously, your requirement will cut down on your available prospects; but, if it's important to you, then there's nothing wrong with insisting on that. You will still have some takers.
The "unconditional love" stuff is garbage. Everyone has conditions and standards, some more unconventional than others. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 8:28:51 AM |
Equating baldness with laziness and gluttony is perfectly reasonable.
Actually, IMO whatever causes loss of attraction for the other party is totally up for discussion...some is fixable, some isn't but in the end it is what it is. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 8:36:54 AM | Just a thought, but what if cancer enters your home? Many are treated with chemo, radiation and steroids. Weight gain - usually very large - is a byproduct of steroids.
It could happen to either of you. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 8:39:55 AM | | OP if you start your marriage off with demands it probably won't last very long. The idea behind love is to be accepting, not punitive. If you can actually locate a woman that agrees to this I say go for it because there won't be many of them to choose from. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 9:12:24 AM |
Posted By: DJChickie401 on 9/8/2008 11  51 AM Message: Equating baldness with laziness and gluttony is perfectly reasonable. Actually, IMO whatever causes loss of attraction for the other party is totally up for discussion...some is fixable, some isn't but in the end it is what it is.
It's just a different issue is all. This thread is specifically about maintaining reasonable physical fitness. Something generally within the control of every one of us. Sure, there are other things that can cause us to lose interest in a lover that are beyond their control. To lose interest in someone because they have a problem 'beyond thier control' might be classified as shallow (definitely selfish), but something within their control? I don't think so. I think letting yourself go is also a selfish act, and shows a lack of caring for your partner. Going bald is not. It's mearly an unfortunate turn of events.
Most of the comments about men's problems, as they get older, are just mean spirited bashing in the absense of a good defense of the issue at hand. (Although expecting us to maintain our physiques is perfectly fair, too.)
If someone were to become overweight because of a medical issue beyond their control, then it would be shallow and selfish to hold it against them. Pregnancy is not an excuse. Too many women succeed in the effort to get back into reasonable shape after childbirth for this to be the be all/end all of excuses for being fat. Stretchmarks and a bit of a paunch, yes. Obese or even very much larger? No.
I think a pre-nup is a little silly, but the issue is a serious problem. Especially here in the United States. I think the fact that it is not considered completely off the wall by everyone attests to that to some degree. | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 9:13:35 AM | | Most people don't choose to get sick, so in my opinion "maintaining health" is just wrong. I know a few couples that were happily married for 50 years or more. Neither of them were in the same physical condition in their 70's that they were when they got married. The old saying that "love is blind" may or may not be true, but true love involves more than just physical attraction. In answer to the question, I believe the answer should be "not if you're truly in love and want to spend your lives together". | |
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| Prenuptial - maintaining physique - is it reasonable?
Posted: 9/8/2008 9:25:47 AM |
Posted By: duckling on 9/8/2008 12  35 PM Message: Most people don't choose to get sick, so in my opinion "maintaining health" is just wrong. I know a few couples that were happily married for 50 years or more. Neither of them were in the same physical condition in their 70's that they were when they got married. The old saying that "love is blind" may or may not be true, but true love involves more than just physical attraction. In answer to the question, I believe the answer should be "not if you're truly in love and want to spend your lives together".
I agree with this, within reason. Nobody is going to be the same physically at 40, 50, 60, and 70 that they are at 20-35. Many men see the same young lady they fell in love with 40 years later. It's sort of like the frog in the gradually heated up water... Only in a good way. If it happens too quickly though, there are going to be issues. | |
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