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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 12:17:04 PM |
How nice, just the sort of language to use in a reasoned debate.
Ok, I'll rephrase. I think your talking rubbish=sh!t in my book, better for you?
How about.... What starts out as a nice little 'talking to' that doesn't work after x amount of times, what then?
It's pointless saying "I'm a decent parent" because I'm pretty sure every parent would say that. It's just like driving, no-one would ever admit to being bad at that but there are plenty of bad drivers.
I am a decent parent, so don't respond to that with anything, because you don't know me. The fact that even though my son has tested how far he can push at times, in the 10 .5 years I've had him. I've never laid a finger on him, and guess what, he understands, reflects, and realises the consequences to his actions. So far so good.
What would you do if I slapped you across the face? Maybe have me arrested for assualt?
No difference to hitting a child, Maybe you enjoy hitting children?
Do you feel all powerful over someone weaker and smaller than yourself? | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 12:25:23 PM | I think you two should stop getting personal and trolling the thread.
No one has mentioned slapping anyone on the face and you are both being obtuse with each other. I'm afraid you will just have to agree to differ without putting words in each others mouth or changing the meaning of the statements made. Either that or do it in private please.
Missy H calling someone elses opinion shi*t is trolling. It's not acceptable. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 12:31:24 PM | ^^^^ Well report me then ffs and get a life whilst your at it!!!! Now I'm trolling. So do it, do it, do it. You know you want to.
My post was called balderish. I use the word sh!t, no difference.
I'll respond to the thread as I see fit, thanks. If I'm worth reporting, then do it.
I used slapping an adult as an example, which in my opinion relates to the thread I.E - it's not ok to hit an adult and you can be arrested. But hitting a child, in some people's eyes, is alright.
Also using examples of my own experiences of dealing with unwanted behaviour from my own child. All relates to the thread.
vvvvv I am more than capable. But I struggle to be alright with people who find it acceptable to hit children as a means to teach right from wrong.
So run along and correct people's spelling or something. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 12:45:09 PM | Ok, I'll rephrase. I think your talking rubbish=sh!t in my book, better for you?
Thank you. Much better.
I haven't suggested that you are not a decent parent....... I just stated the glaringly obvious. That no-one would admit to be being anything other than that.
I'm sorry that you do not seem capable of debate without resorting to insults and bad language so I shall leave it there. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 1:19:55 PM | I'm sorry that you do not seem capable of debate without resorting to insults and bad language so I shall leave it well wheres your substance and debate ?im still waiting for your answers to my post (message 67) seeing as you think your better than the worlds leading experts? cos all i,ve heard from you is" i smacked my kids,s and there fine so thats the answer"!!!!!!! im sorry but that is narrow minded and idiotic!!!!!!! | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 2:10:56 PM |
i can assume you have read many books and listened to many experts on the art of parenthood
It's very easy to 'Google' books on child rearing and quote them as if you are an expert on them. As it happens it would seem that the only book you quote that was in print at the time my children were in their formative years was "Between Parent & Child by Dr. Haim G. Ginott ", the rest were much, much later.
My wife was a highly qualified Health Visitor, responsible for the health and well being of children, and had no problem with a little corporal punishment if it were needed. What qualifications do you have, apart from the extremely simple 'Google' facility and the skills to work as a storeman?
We all have different ideas on many things in life. I happen to be incredibly proud of my two children who have turned out to be extremely balanced adults of 28 and 23 years of age. Some will disagree with my ideas on discipline, some will agree with them. Is that any reason to be nasty about it?
Times have changed, today corporal punishment is frowned upon......... so give me the reason why so many kids are feral? Why so many of them are stabbing each other to death? Why so many of them beat up old people who dare to question their behavior? Why my house was burgled by two 14 year olds who also stole and wrecked my daughter's car? Why car crime has rocketed over the past few years and most of the perpretrators are under 16? It couldn't be anything to do with today's views on discipline could it? | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 2:30:52 PM | | lack of responsibilities by the parents poor diets the busy life style of today the corporal punishment they accepted as normal and influenced them in latter life? there is lots of contibuting factors but the fact of the matter is if you can bring up a child to become a responsible adult without resorting to smacking,then your a better parent than a parent that uses corporal punishment to accomplish the same results it just takes a little more patents! and that still doesn,t answer my question of naming one book by leading child care experts that says smacking is good for a child!!! | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 2:36:54 PM | I have to agree that lack of parenting skills, diet, working parents, lone parents, are all major factors.
We have a not so reputable family over the road and i have watched her smack her kids a lot over the years. They have now turned into little thugs and have no respect at all. With love respect and good parenting skills, things may have turned out different. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 2:59:27 PM | and that still doesn,t answer my question of naming one book by leading child care experts that says smacking is good for a child!!!
Smacking children is not harmful
Sunday, 15 October 2006, 3:09 pm
Press Release: Ruby Harrold-Claesson , Lawyer
The Archbishop of Canterbury was quoted in an article published in Aftonbladet on October 27, 1996, saying that "smacking is good for children." The article also informs that Tony Blair has admitted smacking his children, and that he deems it necessary sometimes.
There is no conclusive evidence that smacking is harmful to children. The burden of proof must lay on those who propose a change in the existing system.
and.................
Children lack discipline and turn to crime because their parents are too scared to smack them, says one of Britain's most senior black policemen.
Parents no longer use physical punishment because they fear they will end up in court facing an assault charge, according to Supt Leroy Logan of the Metropolitan Police Force.
He says that the results have been a decline in respect, a rise in family breakdowns and an increasing number of children being put up for adoption.
Supt Logan, the deputy borough commander in Hackney, east London, made the comments last week during a meeting of the all-party Commons Home Affairs Committee, which is investigating patterns of crime among young black men, including last month's spate of shootings in south London.
He told the committee that "lack of respect and discipline in the home" was caused by "the parent feeling a sense of helplessness or a fear of prosecution in the moderate correction of their child".
Black families had raised with him their concerns over the law on smacking, he said, while some had even sent their children back to the Caribbean or Africa, where physical punishments are traditionally used, "to regain their cultural and community values of respect and discipline".
After the hearing, Supt Logan, who is also the chairman of the National Black Police Association, said: "I was beaten by my parents. It was a wake-up call to me, it's the rite of passage that you need."
In law, parents may smack their children without risk of being charged with assault, as long as the force used is "moderate and reasonable". Three years ago, legislation was changed so that blows hard enough to leave lasting marks, which would be classed as actual bodily harm, can no longer be explained away using the defence of reasonable punishment.
Supt Logan's comments drew praise from parents' rights campaigners, who said they applied equally to white families who were now too afraid to smack their children.
Norman Wells, the director of the pressure group Family and Youth Concern, said: "He is absolutely right, and it's not only black parents who are feeling intimidated by social workers and child protection agencies who equate a moderate smack with child abuse.
"If parents are to be held responsible for their children's behaviour at school and in the community, it is vital that their authority to reasonably correct their children is recognised. The more parents' authority is undermined, the less responsibility they will be inclined to take for their -children, and the more their children will grow out of -control.
"Parents are authority figures in their children's lives and they need to have effective sanctions at their disposal when their children misbehave. If children don't learn to respect their parents, there is little hope that they will respect other authority figures."
The (ex) Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has admitted smacking his three older children but says he has never smacked his youngest, Leo. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 3:10:35 PM |
I talk to my son, I set boundaries, if he pushes the boundaries, I don't hit him, but sit and explain why it's wrong, what the consequences are etc.
He might really push the boat out as a teenager, but I will continue to do what I'm doing because it's worked/working without any hitting.
Any child who hasn't received corporal punishment will always push the boundaries, because it knows that it's parents are weak and ineffectual. It will get away with anything, knowing it will only receive a 'talking to' . Big fcuking deal!
BTW We are not discussing kids who were beaten by their parents. We are discussing the application of a physical form of chastisement with a view to correcting 'bad' behaviour.
The two things are worlds apart, ffs... | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 3:38:31 PM |
im still waiting for your answers to my post
And I am still waiting for you to show me where I said that I hit children, as you accused me of doing. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 4:05:58 PM |
Any child who hasn't received corporal punishment will always push the boundaries, because it knows that it's parents are weak and ineffectual. It will get away with anything, knowing it will only receive a 'talking to' . Big fcuking deal!
BTW We are not discussing kids who were beaten by their parents. We are discussing the application of a physical form of chastisement with a view to correcting 'bad' behaviour.
The two things are worlds apart, ffs...
I'm more than certain, that it's not just children who are hit as punishment by their parents, that grow up to be respectable, law abiding adults.
Not smacking children isn't a sign of weakness. The fact that some parents have a close enough relationship with their child, that talking, explaining, listening and punishing in other ways than hitting - can/does work with many children.
And as you were referring to my post. AGAIN I KNOW WE ARE NOT ON ABOUT BEATING CHILDREN, I EXPLAINED MYSELF IN MY LAST POST!!!
But I still won't agree that hitting children, in any way, shape or form is the solution.
As for the OP quoting ONE item about smacking not being harmful - From 2006.
Go check out the up to date information- child protection act, Safeguarding Board, Sure Start, Early Years development strategy, Youth service, 5 outcomes, and the hundred's of other services, workers, professionals that will/do disagree with smacking.
And no I haven't been Googling, it's my job. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 4:06:37 PM | No way should there be a return to corporal punishment. The rest of Europe abandoned it decades before we did with no ill effects. The problems of discipline in schools are two-fold as I see it.
a) There are few effective sanctions teachers can use. These need to exist. At the same time they cannot comfort an upset infant or physically break up a fight - which is PC at stupid extremes.
b) What constitutes a demeanor needs to be clearly defined and reasonable. Parents should be bothered and responsible for addressing major misbehaviour by their child - not dragged away from work because their offspring has infringed some minor bureaucratic nonsense. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 4:10:53 PM |
Any child who hasn't received corporal punishment will always push the boundaries, because it knows that it's parents are weak and ineffectual.
As a child that was given the belt or locked in a cupboard for even the most mild of misdemeanours,i can only say that it caused hate and fear of my father,rather than any form of respect.
I've never felt the need to inflict likewise upon my own son and he seems rather well-behaved and adjusted. So i can only concur you are talking shite. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 4:34:25 PM |
The fact that some parents have a close enough relationship with their child, that talking, explaining, listening and punishing in other ways than hitting - can/does work with many children.
I suspect it does, but we are discussing having the option of corporal punishment, not using it for every misdemeanour. There are other courses of action, but not to retain the option of smacking is not a good idea.
As a child that was given the belt or locked in a cupboard for even the most mild of misdemeanours,i can only say that it caused hate and fear of my father,rather than any form of respect.
Did that fear extend to a fear of punishment?
If so, then only a stupid child would continue to misbehave.
If not, then the father was right to punish his child by any means he saw fit. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/10/2008 5:08:27 PM |
Did that fear extend to a fear of punishment?
If so, then only a stupid child would continue to misbehave.
If not, then the father was right to punish his child by any means he saw fit.
No, No, No !!!!!!!
Only a child beaten into submission would behave until such a time that they can escape the cruel regime they are being brought up in..............an intelligent child would retain their own self-belief and rebel at some stage.
I wonder where people imagine those that do stab or beat up other people learn their craft - obviously from having been through something similar.
I agree with Fish4it's and MissyH's posts on here. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/11/2008 1:16:49 AM | I suspect it does, but we are discussing having the option of corporal punishment, not using it for every misdemeanour. There are other courses of action, but not to retain the option of smacking is not a good idea.
Well I know that I'm not nor will be the only parent, that will get through bringing their child/ren up, without using CP.
I've used this example before. Last year my son stole some money. I was very angry about it, and yes because of my own anger, I felt well he's pushed well over the line. Maybe a smack will "do him good", But I couldn't do it. Instead I left the room, calmed down. Returned, told him to get his coat on, and took him to the police station. I had him locked up in a cell, because that is what happens to a thief.
Luckily the copper was really good, and sat and spoke to him as well as myself.
And I know he hasn't stolen since, because he physically experienced what would happen if he did anything like this again. I feel this course of action was far more effective than a smack/slap would have been.
And before anyone says, a child who gets CP wouldn't have stolen in the first place.
Yes some would and do. There are no perfect children, they are growing, learning and will make mistakes, isn't that how we all learn? I know plenty of adults, that still haven't.
As for the post about children stabbing eachother, I wonder where they learnt that it's OK to retaliate with violence to sort out issues/behaviour they don't like?.... | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/11/2008 1:37:22 AM | Have people forgotten that we have had 2 world wars? My Mum was brought up during the 2nd world war. Most families did not have Dad's around as they were fighting for the country and most of them didn't know what a banana looked like as they had rationing.
How can you blame it on single parenting and food? These things we have had before and they still had respect for the law and respect for adults, which many do not have now.
A lot of people are blowing it well out of proportion and it seems looking for excuses as to why there are so many cases of blatant disrespect or regard of other peoples lives by children and youths today.
No one is saying that children should be locked up or smacked for every little thing they do wrong, but when something warrants it, if done while still young, but old enough to understand it can reverse the behaviour effectively and with little problem.
When I was at school they still had the slipper (for girls) the ruler (for boys and girls) and the cane for boys at school. This was my Primary school. I got the ruler once and I distinctly remember it wasn't the ruler that hurt me, it was the fact that my favourite teacher applied it. I new I had done wrong and I new that I deserved the punishment and I still know and admire the teacher that did it to me to this day. I certainly didn't repeat what I did to get the ruler, I wanted my teacher to like me and be proud of me.
The truth is, when corporal punishment is over applied it is rendered useless as the threat is no longer of any consequence, it loses meaning and affect. It has to be a last resort to be of any use.
It's a bit like swearing. I rarely swear so when I do, it is well known to clear the area as I'm angry and there will be hell to pay. Whereas some people swear as part of their normal every day language and after a while you don't even notice it as it is a natural thing to hear. It stops being offensive. Corporal punishment has no place as part of every day life, it is the exception not the rule. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/11/2008 6:12:13 AM |
A lot of people are blowing it well out of proportion and it seems looking for excuses as to why there are so many cases of blatant disrespect or regard of other peoples lives by children and youths today.
No one is saying that children should be locked up or smacked for every little thing they do wrong, but when something warrants it, if done while still young, but old enough to understand it can reverse the behaviour effectively and with little problem.
When I was at school they still had the slipper (for girls) the ruler (for boys and girls) and the cane for boys at school. This was my Primary school. I got the ruler once and I distinctly remember it wasn't the ruler that hurt me, it was the fact that my favourite teacher applied it. I new I had done wrong and I new that I deserved the punishment and I still know and admire the teacher that did it to me to this day. I certainly didn't repeat what I did to get the ruler, I wanted my teacher to like me and be proud of me.
The truth is, when corporal punishment is over applied it is rendered useless as the threat is no longer of any consequence, it loses meaning and affect. It has to be a last resort to be of any use.
Can I say that this is to me , a perfect example of how it should work, sadly it doesn't. If parents with unruly children carried out the threats of removing their favourite toys etc until the lesson has been learnt then society might have a few less badly behaved kids, but in my experience a lot of parents give in, because ' anything for a quiet life'
When I started this topic I was really pleased to see the wide variety of replies, what I didn't expect was the blatant slagging off of people just because they have a varying response to a poster............ and we are supposed to be the adults here....... makes me wonder sometimes.  Rule number 1 ... attack the post not the poster. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/11/2008 6:18:53 AM | Children need boundaries and to know who is in charge.
To have no boudaries and not to know who is in charge is very unsettling for the child.
I too had utmost respect for teachers and my parents on the odd occasion where I was smacked.
I have never had an asbo nor been charged for a crime.
I know what the boundaries are in society.
How many of todays young do?
I think spare the rod spoil the child is absolutely true.
For those that never disipline their child, they reek havoc on society and deserve to be childless. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/11/2008 6:34:28 AM |
"Spanking or slapping a child is an act of violence, just as slapping a wife is an act of violence. In both cases the perpetrator can say, as one man told me, 'I didn't hurt her'. Almost all parents say the same thing about slapping their children... The main difference between hitting children and hitting spouses is that hitting children Is still legal and that parents do not realise the harmful side-effects of corporal punishment because these do not show up until later in life..."
Murray A Straus, 'Beating the devil out of them: corporal punishment in American families', Lexington Books, 1994
"IT NEVER DID ME ANY HARM...."
Answering common defences of corporal punishment
"Corporal punishment is a necessary part of upbringing. Children learn from a smacking or beating to respect their elders, to distinguish right from wrong, to obey rules and work hard. Without corporal punishment children will be spoilt and undisciplined."
Children need discipline, and particularly need to learn self-discipline. But corporal punishment is a very ineffective form of discipline. Research has consistently shown that it rarely motivates children to act differently, because it does not bring an understanding of what they ought to be doing nor does it offer any kind of reward for being good. The fact that parents, teachers and others often have to repeat corporal punishment for the same misbehaviour by the same child testifies to its ineffectiveness. Smacking, spanking and beating are a poor substitute for more positive forms of discipline which, far from spoiling children, ensure that they learn to think about others and about the consequences of their actions. In the countries where corporal punishment is banned there is no evidence to show that disruption of schools or homes by unruly children has increased: the sky does not fall if children cannot be hit.
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"I was hit as a child and it didn't do me any harm. On the contrary I wouldn't be where I am today if it were not for my parents and teachers physically punishing me."
People usually hit children because they themselves were hit as children: children learn from and identify with their parents and teachers. It is pointless to blame the previous generation for hitting children because they were acting in accordance with the general culture of the time; nor should bonds of love and gratitude which children have towards their elders be denied. However times change, and social attitudes with them. There are plenty of examples of individuals who were not hit as children becoming great successes, and even more examples of individuals who were hit failing to fulfil their potential in later life.
Parents often hit out of anger and frustration – children, like adults, can be very wearisome and difficult – and because they have no knowledge of alternative methods. Parents who try alternatives report success.
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Parents' right to bring up children as they see fit should only be challenged in extreme cases, like child abuse.
The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child replaces the concept of parents’ rights with "parental responsibilities" (which of course carry with them certain rights), including the responsibility to protect the rights of children themselves. The assertion of children's rights seems an unwarranted intrusion to people accustomed to thinking of children as parents’ possessions, but children are now recognised as individuals who are entitled to the protection of human rights standards along with everyone else. Other forms of inter-personal violence within families – including wife-beating – are already subject to social control and are unlawful in almost every society.
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"There is a big difference between a vicious beating and the little smacks that parents often give their children. These are not dangerous, do not cause real pain and cannot be called abuse. Why should these be outlawed?"
Firstly, the little smack does cause a child pain and is intended to do so. And sometimes "minor" corporal punishment causes unexpected injury. Hitting children is dangerous because children are small and fragile (much corporal punishment is targeted at babies and very young children). Ruptured eardrums, brain damage, and injuries or death from falls are the recorded consequences of "harmless smacks".
People would no longer get away with condemning violence to women, by defending "little slaps".
There is a large body of international research suggesting negative outcome from corporal punishment. The following are some of the conclusions:
Escalation Mild punishments in infancy are so ineffective that they tend to escalate as the child grows older. The little smack thus becomes a spanking and then a beating. Parents convicted of seriously assaulting their children often explain that the ill-treatment of their child began as physical punishment.
Encouraging violence Even a little slap carries the message that violence is the appropriate response to conflict or unwanted behaviour. Aggression breeds aggression. Children subjected to physical punishment have been shown to be more likely than others to be aggressive to siblings; to bully other children at school; to take part in aggressively anti-social behaviour in adolescence; to be violent to their spouses and their own children and to commit violent crimes. National commissions on violence in America, Australia, Germany, South Africa and the UK have recommended ending corporal punishment of children as an essential step towards reducing all violence in society.
Psychological damage Corporal punishment can be emotionally harmful to children. Research especially indicts messages confusing love with pain, anger with submission. "I punish you for your own sake", "I hurt you because I love you", "You must show remorse no matter how angry or humiliated you are". Less acknowledged are the links between corporal punishment and sexual development (reflected in much pornography, and in the common use of prostitutes for spanking and correction), and between corporal punishment and sexual abuse of children, whereby the invasion of children’s physical integrity makes an easy path from one to the other.
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"I only smack my children for safety - for their own sake they must learn about danger."
If a child is crawling towards a hot oven, or running into a dangerous road, of course you must use physical means to protect them – grab them, pick them up, show them and tell them about the danger. But if you raise your hand to hit them, you are wasting crucial seconds and – more important – by hurting the child yourself you are confusing the message the child gets about the danger, and distracting their attention from the lesson you want them to learn.
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"Many parents in our country are bringing up their children in desperate conditions, and teachers and other staff are under stress from overcrowding and lack of resources. Forbidding corporal punishment would add to that stress and should await improvement of these conditions."
This argument is a tacit admission of an obvious truth: corporal punishment is often an outlet for pent-up feelings of adults rather than an attempt to educate children. In many homes and institutions adults urgently need more resources and support, but however real adults’ problems may be, venting them on children cannot be justifiable. Children’s protection should not wait on improvements in the adult world, any more than protection of women from violence should have had to await improvement to men’s conditions. Refraining from hurting or humiliating children does not consume or distort the deployment of resources.
In any case hitting children is an ineffective stress-reliever. Adults who hit out in temper often feel guilty; those who hit in cold blood find they have angry and resentful children to cope with. Life in homes and institutions where physical punishment has been abandoned for more positive discipline is much less stressful for all.
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"This is a white, Euro-centric issue. Corporal punishment is a part of my culture and child-rearing tradition. Attempts to outlaw it are discriminatory."
Historically, the hitting of children seems to be a white tradition, exported to many parts of the world through slavery and colonialism, both of which used corporal punishment as a means of control. It appears that the only cultures where children are rarely or never physically punished are small, hunter-gatherer societies, now rapidly vanishing under the impact of urbanisation – but arguably among the most "natural" of all human cultures.
No culture can be said to "own" corporal punishment. All cultures have a responsibility to disown it, as they have disowned other breaches of human rights which formed a part of their traditions. The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child upholds ALL children’s right to protection from all forms of physical or mental violence without discrimination on grounds of race, culture, tradition or religion. There are movements to end corporal punishment of children now in all continents of the world. School and judicial beatings have been outlawed in states in all continents.
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"If corporal punishment of children is outlawed or criminalised this will result in outrageous judicial or disciplinary intervention. Children will be encouraged to act like police and spies in the home."
In countries where corporal punishment is outlawed there have been some disciplinary actions against teachers and childcare workers who hit children. In relation to the family home, these laws are about setting standards and changing attitudes, not prosecuting parents or dividing families. Child protection becomes more straightforward once confusing legal concepts of "reasonable chastisement" are abandoned. Research shows that parents seek help earlier when they recognise that hurting their children is socially and legally unacceptable. Welfare services recognise that children’s needs are as a rule best met within their families, so provide parents with help and support rather than punitive interventions.
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"Banning physical punishment will just lead to children being treated in more horrible ways - emotional abuse, or humiliation or locking them up. How do you suggest children should be punished?"
Children must be protected from all forms of humiliating and inhuman punishment, not only corporal punishment, and parents or staff often need guidance on alternatives to such punishments. The starting point is not to replace one form of punishment with another, but to see discipline as a positive not punitive process, part of the communicative relationship between parent and child. Research clearly shows that effective control of children’s behaviour does not depend upon punishment for wrongdoing but on clear and consistent limits that prevent it. Thereafter good discipline - which must ultimately be self-discipline - depends on adults modelling and explaining the behaviour they prefer; having high expectations of children’s willingness - and realistic expectations of their developmental ability- to achieve it, and rewarding their efforts with praise, companionship and respect.
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"This country is a democracy but there is no democratic support for ending corporal punishment. I bet if there was a poll on the issue a huge majority would support retaining corporal punishment."
Representative democracies are not run by popular referenda. This means that the elected politicians will, when drawing up new laws and the constitution, make a number of unpopular decisions, based on informed arguments. Like the abolition of capital punishment, proposals to end the physical punishment of children never enjoy popular support before legal or administrative steps are taken to outlaw it. However public attitudes rapidly change once such steps are taken.
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"I’d bet that if you asked children how they’d like to be punished they would choose corporal punishment."
Perhaps you could say that was a good reason not to use it! One reason some children may say they like to be physically punished is because it is "quick". In one sense this is true, in that a blow or a beating can quickly be shrugged off or can bring esteem from peers.
This underlines how very ineffective it is as a method of discipline.
In another sense physical punishment is not "quick" because its hidden effects – humiliation, loss of self-esteem, encouragement of aggression and bullying – can be long-lasting. And sadly it is also true that children sometimes seek a beating as a means of gaining the attention of an adult who otherwise ignores them. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/11/2008 6:44:33 AM | exactly angel i think the most of the posts are starting to get petty and completly off topic and not to mention the yawn factor, hmm idea for a new itv show  its like i said on my profile the problem with forums is sensible debate gets thrown out the window and gets quite childish but hey ho the world is made up of many different people i suppose | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/11/2008 6:52:49 AM | Interesting reading Fish, and so much truth to it. Espeically about domestic violence, as someone who has had "it was only a lil slap" from a an ex partner, it just strengthens my opinions and encourages me to ensure children are protected.
And because of my job, ensure that the parent's we work with are educated with alternatives to smacking.
First and foremost it's down to the parent's to lead by example.
If they can't find an alternative before smacking, they need to take a look at themselves as a parent.
I've seen many a time, a child (under 5's) hit a parent, then the parent hit the child back, saying how dare you hit me. You don't hit mummy/daddy. But hmmm they see it as alright to smack the child.
For those that never disipline their child, they reek havoc on society and deserve to be childless.
By not getting disiplined, do you mean not smacking the child to keep him/her in line/make behave?
I was smacked as a kid and still was way out of line, as were my two brothers. One is dead, and the other is still a sh!t.
It was only when I left home, became an adult and a mother myself, that I learned myself to change for the better. Smacking didn't make me the person I am today.
I changed my ways because I wanted to.
Smacking is pointless, it's a quick fix for some people. It hurts the child as well as many other feelings associated with smacking. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/11/2008 6:53:12 AM | Very interesting...maybe some people will see the light now and begin to understand the negatives to corporal pununishment.
"This is a white, Euro-centric issue. Corporal punishment is a part of my culture and child-rearing tradition. Attempts to outlaw it are discriminatory."
Historically, the hitting of children seems to be a white tradition, exported to many parts of the world through slavery and colonialism, both of which used corporal punishment as a means of control. It appears that the only cultures where children are rarely or never physically punished are small, hunter-gatherer societies, now rapidly vanishing under the impact of urbanisation – but arguably among the most "natural" of all human cultures.
Hmmm.. | |
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| Corporal punishment in schools
Posted: 9/11/2008 6:56:22 AM | sad to see this topic has gotten out of hand with personal insults, sarcasm and the likes.
Everyone is different and everyone has different ideas of what is appropriate and what is not. Equally what works for one will not work for the other.
This does not mean that there is one correct answer, however moderation should be applied in all things.
Bottom line things need to change as we can clearly see there is an element within out society that is growing out of control and as a result we need to re examine the control and punishment methods for this element as sadly a stern chat does NOT work for all.
Bottom line...we are all animals and we do learn from all our senses...like it or not.
if you stick your hand in the fire..you get burnt and it hurts....you will not do so again......
however if something is explained in a manner you understand with all benefits and ramifications fully explained....some...not all.....will reconsider....
Lou
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