| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/11/2008 8:03:33 AM |
So what happened to the bear?
Was it a jewish bear?
I don't know the answer to that question, because in the dream, I don't confront the beast, or card him; the action picks up with me in flight. lol An intriguing question, nonetheless, but I abandoned the dream expert before he could/would enlighten me about its meaning, and have not sought out any similar advice subsequently, except perhaps by this thread. I can say that I had had the dream before the actual marriage ceremony, but I was, I think, dating her at the time. I have no credentials to validate an interpretation, but my belief is that, while she had some ursine qualities, she was not THE bear. BTW, I still have that dream on occasion. lol Thanks for the chuckle. | |
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amg72
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Joined: 8/29/2008
Msg: 27 | |
| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/11/2008 8:15:39 AM |
Not one of them (except maybe Dr, Phil or Dr Laura) is gonna tell you the damn truth, shove it in your face and tell you you're a whacked out idiot if you don't do this
Mine pretty much did! I am sure he wanted to slap me upside the head since he told me for months before I was ready to admit that my ex's behavior is typical of an affair (covered up very well and had to dig deep to find), I was being abused (had to reverse typical brainwashing to believe it was my fault he treated me that way!) and that it was better for me and the kids to get out than stay because of what they were being subjected as children of a dysfunctional marriage!
My ex never made it more than twice to the counseling and I was lucky that the psychologist suggested I continue on my own. I became more self aware and was given the tools I needed to recognize my mistakes, set boundaries for how I should be treated, how to handle conflict more positively, how to more effectively deal with the situations I was in and how to help transition my children. Most importantly I learned so that I could avoid repeating the same mistakes and could become a better person, mother and partner. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/11/2008 8:29:50 AM | I think most couples go to a therapist as a last-ditch effort. Therapists are NOT miracle workers. They aren't magicians. They aren't God. And they can't do the work for you.
By the time the couples get there, it's too late. I think the goal of counseling, like prayer, should be to help someone cope with the changes, rather than provide a miracle "fix".
I ran a counseling office w/my ex for a good number of years. I hated it, but that's b/c counseling is NOT my thing at all (I don't have a degree in counseling and have never done it). I got sucked into running it w/him b/c I was pregnant and not working at hte time.
Anyway...I saw a lot of people helped in individual therapy. Very few couples helped. A lot of kids helped too. Esp the kids- I think they benefitted the most. Then again, we had a really awesome child psychologist.
Also, all therapists are human beings with different personalities, different approaches, and different life histories. They aren't a one-size-fits all. Therapy is such a personal experience, choosing the right one makes a big difference, as does the attitude you have going into it.
Kaylie | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/11/2008 8:34:43 AM | | Because of therapy, I prolonged a miserable marriage for an extra unnecessary 5 years. If I could only get all that money back, I would take a trip some Mediterranean island where there are plenty of people sun bathing in the buff and would place sun block on the back of my naked gf and enjoy the sound of the waves. | |
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~Kyn~
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Joined: 2/15/2008
Msg: 30 | |
| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/11/2008 10:09:30 AM | Not one of them (except maybe Dr, Phil or Dr Laura) is gonna tell you the damn truth, shove it in your face and tell you you're a whacked out idiot if you don't do this
I am sure he wanted to slap me upside the head
This is one of the reasons Ive seriously considered a Psyche Degree.
Id get to take out my latent aggression legally on the stupidity of the general population without having to Go Postal
PS Ive also self diagnosed Forums by Proxy.
*does the Mr Burns evil finger Pyramid of Contemplation* | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/11/2008 11:20:21 AM |
Like...mental and emotional tour guides through the screwed up wreck you have made of your life.
GSBabe- I haven't "totaled" car yet, but I do have some dents and scratches, and a paint job might help. I'm just squinting through a dirty windshield trying to see what's ahead.
I hate Dr. Phil. Whew. There! Not the cathartic release I was shootin' for, but an occasional backfire cleans the pipe.
Yes, you're right about no answers/suggested paths. Thanks. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/11/2008 11:25:26 AM | | The psychiatrist or therapist has to be a "good fit." If he or she isn't, it's a waste of time and money, and often makes things worse..... | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/11/2008 11:34:57 AM | | There are lots of therapists and lots of different forms of therapy, there are also lots of different kinds of people who go for different reasons. Obviously you weren't there to fix your marriage and he wasn't the right person for you to be seeing. It takes some time and effort to find someone you can work with and it takes a fairly intelligent person to do real therapy as opposed to simple behavior modification, and you have to really want to dig into some pretty upsetting things about yourself. Therapy should never be about fixing others or something, it's about facing yourself. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/11/2008 11:42:01 AM | yes...it can help tremendously...u just happen to get a bad therapist..it happens..no different than a Dr., Dentist, or Atty.
It depends on how far along and what has transpired to the point of needing a therapist..usually ppl. wait too long and its over before it gets started. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/12/2008 12:18:58 PM |
It takes more than 2 times on the couch OP... It also takes the want to fix which it sounds like you were without by the time you arrived in his office...
I did expect that it would take more than 2X, and I really did walk into that office open to new ideas on how to fix the problem, even if he had suggested some definitions of just what the problem(s) included. But when I saw that he was just going to keep poking me with that dream stick, after I had told him with complete honesty that I never remember dreams, I was fairly certain that there was no progress to be had there. I understand that dream analysis is but one school of the broader psychiatric field, but I also knew that time was short (I was working 14/7 starting a new firm at the time, and more importantly, the relationship was in extremis).
The ideal time to visit a therapist is BEFORE a person gets into a relationship... There are some rather amazing survival skills
Is this a recommendation for all POFers, or just me, based upon my posted facts (the events happened over 20 years ago, except the bear dream)? Would hate to think you're just telling me to go stand in that corner. lol
I really wish you had explained some of those amazing survival skills, for everyone's benefit.
Thanks for your comments. Really. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/12/2008 1:41:42 PM | I've read this whole thread and have suggestions for your dream interpreting sessions. I hope someday your dreams are as provocative and helpful in therapy as for me. I've gone dozens of times now.
You honestly may not visualize, say or write your dreams at all, but that doesn't mean you're not dreaming. I had nightmares (bad dreams) I didn't remember for days, months, years. Good dreams can be equally hard to recall. This happens normally. You are not being dishonest.
Tell your therapist you do not know your dreams, just like before. Tell him you felt ignored/impatient/frustrated(?) in your session, like you described, and want to find better ways to level with him. Life isn't easy, therapy is not. It took months for me to express myself properly.
When I started really describing my mental processes, it was like starting a new therapist. Only I never switched. I learned how to talk in therapy better, so I could be helped faster. Modern psychotherapy techniques took some time.
Today I spend less time fidgeting, more time dealing with issues. Which is less expensive. I took many sessions to get to the point of the therapist and I making regular, relevant connections. Now therapy is good.
I suggest therapy if you are committed to asking your therapist questions and telling them when you don't like them. This way they know what you're thinking, instead of guessing from fidgets. Frustration is normal. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/12/2008 5:27:39 PM | | I remember going to a shrink (marriage counselor) and he fell asleep during the session. So... no, I can't say he was any help at all. However, when I then went to a shrink for chronic insomnia, he fixed me right up! | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/12/2008 6:16:53 PM | | My ex and I saw one for quite some time, I doubt that it helped us one bit, other than to gently confirm that she had..... issues. Of course that being said I had some of my own problems down the road, and nobody I saw was of much help except for one guy, he helped me more in 30 min that all the others combined, and the insight he gave me helps me to this day. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/12/2008 6:32:54 PM | I think that counseling works if the following conditions are present:
1. Both/all involved parties agree to resolve a difficulty via seeking a counselor
2.The counselor is a "good fit" for the two/all of them
3. They seek out another counselor if the current on is not a "good fit"
There are many horror stories blamed on counselors and I think there is a ton of misunderstanding in our culture about the role and benefits of counseling. Counseling can only help if the person seeking them out really wants help. Otherwise, it will never work. Going for counseling is sometimes equated with being broken down [you need to get counseling] when in reality, a good counselor helps you get up to your own "next level". The best person to know what areas you need to grow in are "you". | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/12/2008 7:07:03 PM | Smile, where you end up seems to make sense, but you started, as I did, with two people in a troubled relationship. Is looking to a counselor to assist with a damaged relationship too complicated a task for the counselor? Would he actually have four or even five entities to work with, being each party, as an individual, and each as a party to a relationship (that makes two each, total four), and then the combination of the individuals, the relationship itself, as a fifth entity?
A prior post suggested that the best time to get counseling is prior to getting into a relationship- does that make sense, i.e., is that practical advice?
Should we all, or at least all of us singles looking for a relationship, get something akin to an annual checkup with a counselor, as we would get a physical from an M.D.? | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/12/2008 7:45:12 PM | OP
If one half of the couple is interested in dissolving the relationship and the other half is interested in saving it, I don't think counselling is going to help save the relationship...and that usually is the scenario when a couple hits the "couch". If both want to continue the relationship, counselling may help. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/12/2008 7:49:26 PM | ^^^ Counsellors and therapists are all a question of what works for you. Some will be brilliant for you. Others awful.
If you can find a counsellor who you get on with, its definitely worth getting a tune-up once a year. Keeps you in good service, and ensures that if there are any problems developing under the hood, they can be caught early on.
But if you go to a counsellor and they DON'T get on with you, well, counsellors all say that YOU have to do the work, not them. So why talk to someone who will make you want to AVOID dealing with your problems, instead of facing them? | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/17/2008 1:17:10 AM | | Im really against the whole counselling/mental health profession. The way I see it, all a psychiatrist is, is someone whos studied the phychiatric field and gotten a degree for their job. Suddenly this person is in the position to tell anyone whos been reffered to them about theyre state of mind/ diagnose any type of behaviour they dont see as NORMAL as being a condition/illness.. The first thing I want to point out is when theyre analyzing theyre patient there are many, many things which could be contributing to a persons mood/mindstate, not always an illness. If you ask a psychiatrist if mistakes are made in theyre profession, they will tell you yes. Secondly most of the drugs they prescribe have side-effects which are ten times worse than a lot of presumed patients problems!. I also dont believe reality comes out of a bottle of pills. Id also like to add that a lot of people going to these doctors are young kids whos minds have not fully developed yet, therefore, EFFEXOR' CELEXA or whatever it may be doesnt seem like the best choice in my eyes. I really believe the only thing thats gonna make someone get a grip and get it together is themselves, not a science about what life/mindstate is, nor a manmade chemical. I also would not trust a counsellor in other areas of life, such as marriage (if I was) or anything. My reason being is counsellors can be wrong a lot of the time and when you get down to it, this person is a stranger!. Why would you trust them that quickly?. Yet another bad thing about psychiatry/counselling is the way it impacts not only the patient but the people around them. Lets take a 15 year old kid named steve for example. Steve has friends, a good family, a good life, yet lately he got real upset about a girl dumping him. Hes been reffered to a counsellor. Dr. so and so says Steve has bi-polar or whatever. Suddenly steves family/friends never see him the same way again. He has a mental illness!!!. According to dr whoever at least. Sadly in the 21st century people will believe a doctor about someones midset before a friend, family member or loved one. To me THATS SICK! | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/17/2008 1:34:05 AM | Id also like to point out how the bare facts of psychiatry play on peoples minds as well.
they say some people have a chemical imbalance in which they CANNOT be happy unless they take theyre medicine!, I bet youve heard that somewhere!
Why do people believe this?
lets say someones unhappy at a certain point in theyre life. If this person had a nice home, loving wife/husband, nice posessions and was positive etc etc, Would they still need a pill each day?
If someone answers yes I think Im gonna puke. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/17/2008 5:52:00 AM | I've seen one or two in my lifetime...In my experiences, they only tell you what you want to hear...
Maybe for others, it works..."Help me, Dr. Phil"... | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/17/2008 8:26:30 AM | | Whytwater, you unfortunately got exposed to psychotherapy back when it was heavily Freud influenced. Dream analysis was the hallmark of that useless technique. I got my BA in psychology and was frankly amazed at how cultish and unscientific it was. But rest assured, in conjunction with psychoactive drugs, the current therapies have a much better track record. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/17/2008 9:00:56 AM | Marriage therapist here!
Most people have a huge misperception of what marriage therapy is. I’m not here to offer personality analysis or opinion. What I can do is guide you through the discussion, as an objective third party. As in any profession, there are good and bad. You also have to find someone that matches your specific needs and personality.
It is not always necessary to seek counseling as individuals prior to marriage counseling. That depends on each individual. But many people seek counseling way too late. They’ve already checked out of the marriage and the counseling is seen as the “last ditch” effort to make before heading to divorce court.
They are there to provide you the path, the outlet, the means, the tools to complete the path you are on....ok
Well said!
Whytwater: It appears you saw a psychotherapist, which was very popular for a time, but no one really does it anymore. Therapy is much more goal oriented now.
Let me also clear some things up:
Psychiatrist: Medical doctor with a specializing in psychiatry. Typically, will primarily prescribe medication.
Psychologist: Either a master’s degree or a PhD in psychology, with an independent license allowing them to practice therapy. Except for in a couple states where a PhD has been given limited prescription rights, can not legally prescribe meds.
Marriage therapist: Either a master’s degree or a PhD in either social work or counseling, with an independent license allowing them to practice therapy. Can not prescribe meds. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/17/2008 9:09:47 AM | | Sometime reading books is better enlightenment than actual taking the time with therapy. I suggest you find this great book. Lethal Lovers and Poisonous People by Harriet Braiker. | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/17/2008 4:55:35 PM |
Whytwater: It appears you saw a psychotherapist, which was very popular for a time, but no one really does it anymore. Therapy is much more goal oriented now.
Well, you didn't define "psychotherapist", but the guy I went to was a psychiatrist, with about 15 years of experience, one on a short list of recommendations from the psychologist (Ph.D.) my ex was seeing.
I understand the point of "too late". One of the prior posters seemed to suggest that the right time for "counseling" was prior to entering into a relationship, which was a novel concept to me. Do you recommend that? for all currently single POFers searching for a significant other? | |
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| Does the shrink ever help?
Posted: 9/17/2008 5:20:01 PM | Therapy can be extremly effective,when done with a counsellor ,therapist,psycologist,
phyciatrist what have you; If they are not carrying silent baggage themselves and
demonstrating more of a controlling effect on the individual/individuals---as it is
apparent in your statement about the nasty letter and soforth.
Unfortunately we have to use our own judgments when approaching and seeking
therapy and it definitelyhas to be 'ones' own choice!
To be given an ultimatum 'see a phyciatrist or else--------well that just don't work!
Obviously she had some issues,yet according to her actions while accessing
therapy, she was demonstrating issues of control! no sex...than the complete
opposite at her demand. Which is mind f-ing.
Without knowing the full story with all details, one cannot draw a substantial
opinion when viewing mearly the surface of the situation.
An ultimatum is acontrol tactic-----------unfortunately the counsellor in question
did not seem to address probably because he was too busy trying to control.
Yes there are too many out there with the title"counsellor" what have you.
But that does not make them all qualified.
If you want therapy, don't feelcomfortable with one,move on till you find one
you are comfortable with.
Ibelieve anything can be mended if true intentions are present.
I believe with the federal elections coming up, an important issue to be brought
up with the meens of a remedy; such as screening before issueing someone
a licence to practice with people in such a fragile state; should definitely be top
of the agenda.
So many are not getting the help they need on this account!
and that is my therapeautic response for the day! lol | |
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