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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national      Home login  
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 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 51
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...Page 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
Unless I missed something, Rezko didn't engage in any illegal fundraising activities. He did some things that have led to charges - but it wasn't fundraising. And he didn't bribe Obama with donations so he could steal money from widows and orphans. Like Keating did with McCain.
 harliegal
Joined: 8/31/2007
Msg: 52
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 12:41:44 PM
Ok WHAT does BHO stand for?????
 harliegal
Joined: 8/31/2007
Msg: 53
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 12:51:43 PM
Mac you go dude!!! That said it all. And how do you stand that way?
 Eric2008
Joined: 2/17/2008
Msg: 54
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 2:12:12 PM
Unless I missed something, Rezko didn't engage in any illegal fundraising activities. He did some things that have led to charges - but it wasn't fundraising. And he didn't bribe Obama with donations so he could steal money from widows and orphans. Like Keating did with McCain.


Well you did miss something and you might want to read up before you put your foot in your mouth.You might want to stick to Canadian politics for a while aren't you people having your third national election for the third time in 4 years?Rezko is a crook and a good friend of Obama.
The Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of McCain in the scheme was also minimal, and he too was cleared of all charges against him.[25][24] McCain was criticized by the Committee for exercising "poor judgment" when he met with the federal regulators on Keating's behalf.[6] The report also said that McCain's "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him....Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate."[28
Did you read the last line it is from the Congressional record of the investigation of the So-Called Keating Five.The three that that were found to have acted improperly were all DEMOCRATS.
 ibscrooge
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 55
As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 3:07:40 PM
Ok WHAT does BHO stand for?????

It stands for Barrack Hussein Obama
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 56
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 3:44:49 PM

Did you read the last line it is from the Congressional record of the investigation of the So-Called Keating Five.The three that that were found to have acted improperly were all DEMOCRATS.


What did they do that was more improper than what McCain did? Take more trips on Keating to the Bahamas than did the McCains? Accept more backing for shopping malls than did the McCains? Accept more campaign funding than did McCain? Sit with a more antagonistic posture at the meeting with the regulators? McCain did plenty wrong and what's been dismissed on him far exceeds anything they've been able to dig up, and there has been digging, involving Rezko and Obama.

If you want to wave the finger of shame at them both equally, that's fine. But don't excuse one and expect the other to be crucified because that's simple hypocrisy.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 57
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 4:21:53 PM
I'm aware of the facts, and not surprised that the Senate didn't convict him of anything.

But the facts of the case are clearly bribery. Just because legislative assemblies around the world are notoriously forgiving of their own doesn't make it any less than taking bribes. McCain was paid; and he delivered. And Keating was able to steal with both hands.
 ibscrooge
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 58
As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 4:41:25 PM
The core allegation of the Keating Five affair is that Keating had made contributions of about $1.3 million to various U.S. Senators, and he called on those Senators to help him resist regulators. The regulators backed off, to later disastrous consequences.

Beginning in 1985, Edwin J. Gray, chair of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB), feared that the savings industry's risky investment practices were exposing the government's insurance funds to huge losses.[5] Gray instituted a rule whereby savings associations could hold no more than ten percent of their assets in "direct investments",[5] and were thus prohibited from taking ownership positions in certain financial entities and instruments.[6] Lincoln had become burdened with bad debt resulting from its past aggressiveness, and by early 1986,[5] its investment practices were being investigated and audited by the FHLBB:[7] in particular, whether it had violated these direct investment rules; Lincoln had directed FDIC-insured accounts into commercial real estate ventures.[4] By the end of 1986, the FHLBB had found that Lincoln had $135 million in unreported losses and had surpassed the regulated direct investments limit by $600 million.[5]

Keating had earlier taken several measures to oppose Gray and the FHLBB, including recruiting a study from then-private economist Alan Greenspan saying that direct investments were not harmful,[5] and getting President Ronald Reagan to make a recess appointment of a Keating ally, Atlanta real estate developer Lee H. Henkel Jr., to an open seat on the FHLBB.[5] But by March 1987, Henkel had resigned, upon news of his having large loans due to Lincoln.[5] Meanwhile, the Senate had changed control from Republican to Democratic during the 1986 Congressional elections, placing several Democratic senators in key positions, and starting in January 1987, Keating's staff was putting pressure on Cranston to remove Gray from any FHLBB discussion regarding Lincoln.[8] The following month, Keating began large-scale contributions into Cranston's project to increase California voter registration.[8] In February 1987, Keating met with Riegle and began contributing to Riegle's 1988 re-election campaign.[9]

It appeared as though the government might seize Lincoln for being insolvent.[6] The investigation was, however, taking a long time.[7] Keating was asking that Lincoln be given a lenient judgment by the FHLBB, so that it could limit its high risk investments and get into the safe (at the time) home mortgage business, thus allowing the business to survive. A letter from audit firm Arthur Young & Co. bolstered Keating's case that the government investigation was taking a long time.[10] Keating now wanted the five senators to intervene with the FHLBB on his behalf.

By March 1987, Riegle was telling Gray that "Some senators out west are very concerned about the way the bank board is regulating Lincoln Savings," adding somewhat ominously, "I think you need to meet with the senators. You'll be getting a call."[9] Keating and DeConcini were asking McCain to travel to San Francisco to meet with regulators regarding Lincoln Savings; McCain refused.[10][6] DeConcini told Keating that McCain was nervous about interfering.[6] Keating called McCain a "wimp" behind his back, and on March 24, Keating and McCain had a heated, contentious meeting.[10]

On April 2, 1987, a meeting with chairman Gray of the FHLBB was held in DeConcini's Capitol office, with Senators Cranston, Glenn, and McCain also in attendance.[6] DeConcini started the meeting with a mention of "our friend at Lincoln."[6] Gray told the assembled senators that he did not know the particular details of the status of Lincoln Savings and Loan, and that the senators would have to go to the bank regulators in San Francisco that had oversight jurisdiction for the bank. Gray did offer to set up a meeting between those regulators and the senators.[6]

On April 9, 1987, a two-hour meeting[4] with three members of the FHLBB San Francisco branch was held, again in DeConcini's office, to discuss the government's investigation of Lincoln.[10][6] Present were Cranston, DeConcini, Glenn, McCain, and additionally Riegle.[6] The regulators felt that the meeting was very unusual and that they were being pressured by a united front, as the senators presented their reasons for having the meeting.[6] McCain said, "One of our jobs as elected officials is to help constituents in a proper fashion. ACC [American Continental Corporation] is a big employer and important to the local economy. I wouldn't want any special favors for them.... I don't want any part of our conversation to be improper." Glenn said, "To be blunt, you should charge them or get off their backs," while DeConcini said, "What's wrong with this if they're willing to clean up their act? ... It's very unusual for us to have a company that could be put out of business by its regulators."[6] The regulators then revealed that Lincoln was under criminal investigation on a variety of serious charges, at which point McCain severed all relations with Keating.[6] Glenn continued to help Keating after that revelation, by setting up a meeting with then-House Majority Leader Jim Wright, which turned out to be the only questionable thing Glenn did throughout the whole affair.[11]

Much of the press attention to the Keating Five focused on the relationships of each of the senators to Keating.

Cranston had received $39,000 from Keating and his associates for his 1986 Senate re-election campaign. Furthermore, Keating had donated some $850,000 to assorted groups founded by Cranston or controlled by him, and another $85,000 to the California Democratic Party.[4] Cranston considered Keating a constituent because Lincoln was based in California.[18]

DeConcini had received about $48,000 from Keating and his associates for his 1988 Senate re-election campaign.[4] In September 1989, DeConcini stated he would return the money.[4] DeConcini considered Keating a constituent because Keating lived in Arizona; they were also long-time friends.[18]

Glenn had received $34,000 in direct contributions from Keating and his associates for his 1984 presidential nomination campaign, and a political action committee tied to Glenn had received an additional $200,000.[4] Glenn considered Keating a constituent because one of Keating's other business concerns was headquartered in Ohio.[18]

McCain and Keating had become personal friends following their initial contacts in 1981,[10] and McCain was the closest socially to Keating of the five senators.[21] Like DeConcini, McCain considered Keating a constituent as he lived in Arizona.[18] Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in political contributions from Keating and his associates.[22] In addition, McCain's wife Cindy McCain and her father Jim Hensley had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. McCain, his family, and their baby-sitter had made nine trips at Keating's expense, sometimes aboard Keating's jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating's opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay. McCain did not pay Keating (in the amount of $13,433) for some of the trips until years after they were taken, when he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln.[6][23]

Riegle had received some $76,000 from Keating and his associates for his 1988 Senate re-election campaign.[4] Riegle later announced in April 1988 he was returning the money.[5] Riegle's constituency connection to Keating was that Keating's Hotel Pontchartrain was located in Michigan.[18]

The Senate Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of Glenn in the scheme was minimal, and the charges against him were dropped.[24] He was only criticized by the Committee for "poor judgment."[27]

The Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of McCain in the scheme was also minimal, and he too was cleared of all charges against him.[25][24] McCain was criticized by the Committee for exercising "poor judgment" when he met with the federal regulators on Keating's behalf.[6] The report also said that McCain's "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him....Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate."[28] On his Keating Five experience, McCain has said: "The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."[6]

After McCain became a leading Republican contender for the U.S. presidency in the 2000s several retrospective accounts of the controversy contended that McCain was included in the investigation primarily so that there would be at least one Republican target.[29][30][31][11] Glenn's inclusion in the investigation has been attributed to Republicans who were angered by the inclusion of McCain, as well as committee members who thought that dropping Glenn (and McCain) would make it look bad for the remaining three Democratic Senators.[29][31] Democrat Robert S. Bennett, who was the special investigator during the scandal, suggested to the Senate Ethics Committee that it pursue charges against neither McCain nor Glenn, saying of McCain, "that there was no evidence against him."[30] The Vice Chairman of the Ethics Committee, Senator Warren Rudman of New Hampshire, agreed with Bennett, but the Chairman, Senator Howell Heflin of Alabama, did not agree.[11]

Regardless of the level of their involvement, both senators were greatly affected by it. McCain would write in 2002 that attending the two April 1987 meetings was "the worst mistake of my life".[32] Glenn has described the Senate Ethics Committee investigation as the low point of his life.[7]

Sooooo......It seems that McCains only ties are that he personally knew him.....Had invested his own money in his shopping mall venture......And had gone on vacation with him......His campaign fund had recieved contributions........After finding out about the investigations McC ain then CUT ALL TIES TO KEATING EVEN PAYING HIM BACK FOR THE VACATIONS....SO PLEASE....PLEASE TELL ME WHAT McCAIN HAS DONE THAT WAS ILLEGAL? IT WOULD SEEM NOTHING AT ALL!!!!!!!!
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 59
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 5:05:13 PM
Oh, I see. When Keating was caught and the Savings and Loan went down, McCain didn't even keep the bribes. Well, that's all right then.

It's only a bribe if you keep the money, right?
 ibscrooge
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 60
As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 5:09:57 PM
Oh, I see. When Keating was caught and the Savings and Loan went down, McCain didn't even keep the bribes. Well, that's all right then.

It's only a bribe if you keep the money, right?


Dad....Please show me the bribe. What bribe ? Where? Campaign contributions? or vacation? Both legitimate I say again show me the bribe.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 61
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 5:14:07 PM
I never said it was illegal. But morally - Keating paid money to McCain in the form of campaign contributions (that's the way they all are paid, since campaign money unspent can be used by the candidate in whatever way he wants); McCain intervened with regulators so Keating could continue to steal.

As I originally stated, McCain was actively involved in Keating's illegal activities - something even the most deluded right winger has never claimed about Obama. Except you - when you claimed Rezko's illegal activities were his fundraising. So that would make you champion.
 ibscrooge
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 62
As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 5:27:50 PM
As I originally stated, McCain was actively involved in Keating's illegal activities - something even the most deluded right winger has never claimed about Obama. Except you - when you claimed Rezko's illegal activities were his fundraising. So that would make you champion

Soooo...then its ok for Rezko to give contributions but not Keating? Sorry Dad you just made my argument for me.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 63
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 5:38:41 PM
Too bad Barack's middle name isn't Thomas, so he could be BTO (Big Time Operator) or Bachman Turner Overdrive

OK so he's a Big HAMBURGER Operator then.

He's as American as hamburgers and apple pie--our country is founded on immigrants, after all. And his honesty, goodness, strength of character, and nerves of steel will help lead our country back to prosperity--and most importantly regain our standing with the rest of the world after eight years of tomfoolery.

OBAMA/BIDEN 2008!!!
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 64
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 5:43:36 PM

Soooo...then its ok for Rezko to give contributions but not Keating? Sorry Dad you just made my argument for me.


That's actually the double standard I originally accused you of when you introduced Rezko to this thread. The key difference is that Obama didn't provide a fee for service in getting the investigation into Rezko dropped. The only reason Keating was caught was because his Savings and Loan went under. Rezko was caught because the investigators didn't get hauled off by powerful friends.
 ibscrooge
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 65
As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 6:16:09 PM
Dad,,,, Ummmm you might want to read up a bit more on Rezko and Obama.

That's actually the double standard I originally accused you of when you introduced Rezko to this thread. The key difference is that Obama didn't provide a fee for service in getting the investigation into Rezko dropped. The only reason Keating was caught was because his Savings and Loan went under. Rezko was caught because the investigators didn't get hauled off by powerful friends.

really???????

Barack Obama has been friends with Antoin ("Tony") Rezko since at least 1990. Barack interviewed with Rezko for a job in the early 1990s (offered, but declined), and has raised at least $150,000 for Obama's campaigns. Prosecutors charge that at least $10,000 of the money Rezko gave Obama was extorted in return for political favors by a different politician. In return, Barack arranged an internship in 2005 for John Aramanda, the son of a Rezko business associate (Joseph Aramanda, who himself gave Barack $11,500.)

There's more. In June, 2005, Obama bought a house in Chicago for $1.65 million ($300,000 below the asking price). The same day, Rezko bought (in his wife's name) the vacant lot next door for $625,000, the full price asked. Seven months later, Rezko sold Barack a slice (1/6th) of his lot so the Obamas could have a bigger yard. There's no evidence that Rezko bought the vacant land for any other reason than to do Obama a favor. The seller would only sell the house if he could sell the lot on the same day. And the lot is only accessible through Obama's yard. Rezko and his wife sold the lot last year to someone they owed moey to, and let that person keep the small profit he made.


Ummm and you were saying??
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 66
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 6:19:10 PM
Rezko bought a lot? That's what you've got?

McCain intervened in an investigation to get Keating out of charges. ALL the money Keating gave McCain was stolen.

The difference is that McCain called off the investigation of someone who paid him to do it. Obama just took someone at face value.
 ibscrooge
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 67
As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 6:29:10 PM
Ahhhh but you forget my friend that when McCain met with the investigators and found out that he was under investigation for these things he CUT OFF ALL TIES TO KEATING. So in essence his meeting the investigators was really a good thing as it gave him the information that he needed to break with Keating in the first place. His meeting did not cause the investigators to back off note that there were several meetings with all the senators and so your claim that it was McCains meeting that caused them to do this is moot. McCain didnt have the investigation called off he used their information to break his ties to Keating.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 68
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 6:48:18 PM
A guy gives you money and wants you to use your influence to meet with people investigating him. You do so. Then are Shocked! to find out that he's under investigation.

Either he's lying, or he's waaaaay too stupid to be President.
 ibscrooge
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 69
As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 6:52:57 PM
Either he's lying, or he's waaaaay too stupid to be President

Dad this is going nowhere fast lol....We could argue this to infinity but your last statement says it all. The very same thing could be said for Obama as well so what seems to be the point?
 PhillyFellow
Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 70
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 7:11:45 PM

This is the woman you remember who falsely used some member of news media's pass to get within a few feet of Palin during the speech at the Republican National Convention to begin her anti-McCain rant. Obama publicly gives his stamp of approval on this behavior by inviting her to this very exclusive fundraiser.


(Code Pink)Obama Bundler Jodie Evans: Osama Had A Valid Reason to Attack the United States
No Quarter ^ | June 10, 2008 | Charles Lemos
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:06:13 PM
On June 3, 2008, Jodie Evans, the founder of Code Pink and an Obama Bundler went on the Conscience of Kansas Radio Show with Paul Ibbetson. During the interview, Jody Evans noted that Osama bin-Laden had a valid reason for attacking the United States on 9/11.
From the interview:
Jodie Evans:…”We were attacked because we were in Saudi Arabia, that was the message of Osama, was that because we had our bases in the Middle East, he attacked the United States.”
Paul A. Ibbetson: “Do you think that’s a valid argument?”
Evans: “Sure. Why do we have bases in the Middle East? We totally violated the rights of that country. Why do we get to have bases in the Middle East?”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2029153/posts

Rev. Wright, Father Pfleger, William Ayers, and now Jodie Evans. Obama seems to have a special affinity for terrorist-sympathizers.

PhillyFellow
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 71
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 7:51:47 PM

a special affinity for terrorist-sympathizers.


When we place a derogatory label on those who point out a simple and logical fact what does that say about us?

Terrorist's methods are abhorrent and criminal for sure, but you have got to understand the real truth of their extremism and acknowledge it or there is no hope. To argue what Evans said in that quote is to argue against logic.
 PhillyFellow
Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 72
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/20/2008 8:34:48 PM
Techman, dude! The reason why those bases are there was because of protection against Saddam Hussein. Remember the first Iraq war? Saddam's invasion of Kuwait? Saddam's forces sitting on the Kuwait/Saudi border?

PhillyFellow
 Eric2008
Joined: 2/17/2008
Msg: 73
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/21/2008 7:15:36 AM
I never said it was illegal. But morally - Keating paid money to McCain in the form of campaign contributions (that's the way they all are paid, since campaign money unspent can be used by the candidate in whatever way he wants); McCain intervened with regulators so Keating could continue to steal.


There you go again.Unspent campaign contributions can't be spent anyway the candidate wants in the USA.Maybe in Canada they can but not here.Read up ,learn and don't talk about things you have no clue about,like US law.You probably need to spend more time on Canada's third national election in 4 years.McCain did something for a CONSTITUENT.Often in this country when a citizen feels they are being unfairly singled out by a federal agency they approach their Senator or Congressman.As soon as McCain found out that Keating might be involved in criminal activity he cut ties.Much as you would do if you found out that one of your friends was planning a bank robbery.
You might just need to quit blindly listening to your lefty friends and do some actual research and find some facts before you start talking about something you have no knowledge about.
At least McCain knows that Russia has a seat on the UN Security Council and you can't get a resolution through condemning them when they have VETO power.He probably asked Mr.Raines if he knew what to do since he used to be President of Fannie Mae(you know the outfit that had to be bailed out and Raines had to repay 40 million USD because he padded the books)or Mr Johnson who helped pick Mr.Biden as VP .Mr.Johnson was President of Freddie Mac and it had to be bailed out as well.
You keep bringing up something that happened almost twenty years ago and fabricating the position that McCain helped steal money.I'm showing you current Obama advisors who ran two stable quasi-government agencies into the ground until they had to be taken over by the government.
Learn some facts not innuendo.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 74
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/21/2008 8:20:15 AM

Techman, dude! The reason why those bases are there was because of protection against Saddam Hussein.


Oh yeah, that's right. Good thing they're there protecting from Saddam right now isn't it?

Whether or not we agree with validity in reasoning for troops being deployed in Saudi Arabia or any of our decades long interventionism in the Middle East, you still can't ignore that those policies are what makes us hated targets. Saying so isn't "terrorist sympathy", it's stating the obvious.

Besides with all the arms sold to and military aid given to the Saudis, why do we need to be there protecting against the ever growing threat of Saddam?
 PhillyFellow
Joined: 4/9/2008
Msg: 75
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As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...
Posted: 9/22/2008 10:02:39 AM
Sorry, Techman. But stating the obvious does not apply to excuses used to justify criminal behavior. The Jodie Evans response was for a reason for the Al Qaeda attacks on 9/11. Saddam was still in power with a significant military force on 9/11, which required the U.S. Saudi forces to remain there. Remember too the justification Al Qaeda gave for the attacks was not just for those bases but the entire first Iraq war itself. Apparently, they felt it alright for dictators to invade their neighboring countries, as long as it was Moslem dictators.


PhillyFellow
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > As I said Obama will institute Chicago-style corruption on a national scale...