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Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!      Home login  
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 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 51
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!Page 3 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

If someone is a convicted peadophile - WHY can't we lock em up and throw away the key?


Because we are talking about 30 000 ++ people AROUND US who are convicted child abusers ..

Enough to fill a town .. so throwing a key would be a little problem

Personally I think there is a less damage if wrong people got in trouble due to a mistaken identity than if the b*****rds get the opportunity to re-offend

Innocents could be cleared through the media .. and one more abused kid is just too much .....
 enty of woth
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 52
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/15/2008 2:55:22 PM

Personally I think there is a less damage if wrong people got in trouble due to a mistaken identity than if the b*****rds get the opportunity to re-offend


Unbelieveable.

Do you work for USAF bomber command by any chance?
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 53
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/15/2008 3:07:17 PM

Unbelieveable.

Do you work for USAF bomber command by any chance?


IMO adults have ability to protect themselves.. there is a law to protect their innocence if they are innocent...

The little kids can not protect themselves and we are here to protect them.

From individuals who intentionally try to harm them

And some of them at any costs.

These individuals need to pay for their actions.

And they need to be removed from ANY opportunity to re-offend.

For example, in US there is a Christian organisation who takes care of offenders who left the prison.

The offenders are invited to come to the weekly meetings.

In these meetings the offenders are kind of brainwashed in a quite hard way

If they do not come to the meeting the organisation members know something is wrong and they go after them

I think this should happen in here too..
 maz1960
Joined: 4/6/2007
Msg: 54
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/15/2008 3:16:22 PM
thank f*** i don't live in america where "christian "organisations become vigilaties.
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 55
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/15/2008 3:33:38 PM

thank f*** i don't live in america where "christian "organisations become vigilaties.


Believe me they are angels compared to a 50 something two toothed bold ex offender with long hair who spoke in that documentary and who said due to the help of THIS organisation when he is in a train full of little boys he tries very hard not to get ATTRACTED to any of them.. he wouldn't look at their direction and would try to move away from them.. that monologue did not sound very genuine to me when I noticed a beautiful teenage boy next to him.. his new boyfriend, he said.. who he succeeded to ATTRACT just few months after leaving the prison.
 maz1960
Joined: 4/6/2007
Msg: 56
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/15/2008 3:43:42 PM
As I said "once a pedophile always a pedophile" ...but don't pretend to be a do good "christian " organisation when they also are prepared to use violence to achieve what they want. Sexual violence is all about power and control ,two wrongs do not make a right in my opinion .
 bettyspagetti
Joined: 7/1/2008
Msg: 57
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/15/2008 3:44:01 PM
I find this quite scary. does this law mean that as parents we are able to check EVERYONE who comes into contact with our kids? the list would be endless! how many people do we get to check on , before the police treat us like the boy who cried wolf?
If its true that most child abuse is carried out by family members or "friends" , can you really imagine getting your brother/sister checked out?
I agree with other points made, that this will just leed to real offenders going underground and innocent people having their lives ruined.
Also, it feels a bit like the government letting us do their policing for them
Talk about big brother!
 Sandbagger
Joined: 2/17/2007
Msg: 58
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/15/2008 4:21:14 PM
This is all very very scary.

I do agree that our children's safety is of paramount importance, & of course everyone has a moral duty to protect them at all costs...................BUT.

The logistics of all these checks would put a huge burden on the department set up to perform these checks.

I have done some research on the net, reading lots of articles, & it seems the general concensus is that around one man in a thousand is a POSSIBLE paedophile. Around half that number are actually convicted, so that is around 20 men in 20,000.
Far too many I agree, but 19,980 of these men are innocent, that is without the knock on effect of ex partners vindictively accusing their former beau. Surely the collective feelings of these innocent men have to be considered. The very fabric of human relations would be sure to suffer in an environment of suspicion. Many loving relationships would flounder because of baseless accusations.

I AM on the side of the children, but this I feel raises more questions than answers.
 Just Chattin
Joined: 6/19/2008
Msg: 59
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/15/2008 10:41:50 PM
Easier solution would be to cut off their hands and penis then let em free - hard to offend if you havnt got the bloody tools ! childrena are safe job done
 AitchEm
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 60
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/15/2008 10:51:49 PM
Might it be a suggestion ,that the parents who are making the phone call to check up on possible dates or partners, put that effort into educating their children into understanding what is appropriate, and inappropriate behaviour from others ,whether it be an adult or peers. In previous generations and in some societies where child abuse (sexual or otherwise ) was /is pervalent and a taboo subject ,abusers were /are more able to prey on and violate their victims. In our enlightened society where we educate our children in many previously "dodgy " subjects, such as sex education we should be able to include conversation around issues of sexual violence. Give the children the knowledge which will allow them to have an element of control over their own lives and the ability to recognise what is right and wrong ..and I do not mean scare mongering. No humane person would want the innocent to become a victim be it a child or wrongly accused adult .


Amen to that. Probably one of, if not the most eminently sensible post on this thread. However, what you propose would mean handing the responsibility back to the citizens of this country which is contrary to the current nanny state manifesto as we are apparently not capable or trustworthy.
 madbadsteve
Joined: 8/24/2007
Msg: 61
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 12:19:25 AM
I am astounded that Alma Mahler could write the statement below

"Personally I think there is a less damage if wrong people got in trouble due to a mistaken identity than if the b*****rds get the opportunity to re-offend

Innocents could be cleared through the media .. and one more abused kid is just too much ....."

What planet does she live on???????

They would be cleared through the media? The media are already happy to destroy lives with no evidence and when the person is found to be innocent they move on or publish a very small retraction notice. She is happy to see someones life, family and job destroyed who is perfectly innocent on the basis that at some time in the future the media will report that it was all a mistake. As for the confidentiality agreement, well it would not be worth the paper it was written on.
She has illustrated better than I ever could why such a law is a dreadful idea. Professional councilors, police and medical staff all have years of training and confidentiality is a major part of their role and it through the effective deployment of the correct rosourses and people that these offenders can be dealt with. Control, management and treatment is what is needed, not vigilanty justice.
 Variola
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 62
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 12:50:21 AM
The 'in favor of the kids' party doesnt yet seem to realise that this may well end in more risk of harm to children by driving sex offenders underground and giving them the perfect opportunity to 'clear' themselves by making false documents.
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 63
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 1:42:51 AM
I do not agree with both above statements.

For example if Sarah's Law was implemented earlier this would/could have saved life of little Sarah Paine. As she was killed by a convicted pedophile.

In America Megan's Law has been working for more than 5 years I think.. and nothing drastic has happened..but the parents are free to check the weirdo's living around them and know who they are..

People here who suggest that potential damage to innocent 'wrongly accused' people is more important than INNOCENT life of a child are IMO wrong.

This is just like hiding child related crimes under the carpet.

The pedos in US did not go underground in US when Megan's Law was implemented.

They mostly moved abroad (this is my opinion after a little research I done). To let other governments deal with them.

There are still countries who protect pedos by hiding the child abuse issues under the carpet and pretending this doesn't happen.. a haven for pedos.. these countries do not even have the offenders register. How good for the offenders !

And I am not talking here about a 17 year old boy making love to a 15 year old girl.

The law clearly states 'the age difference'.

So if anyone is browsing the net for the 'underage asian babes' they are at this point on the wrong side of the law as they are looking at child pornography... ;)

And the pedo rings also, they became extremely unbreakable.. recently when one of the rings was smashed the police told to become the member now one has to provide photos of abused kids, forcing the new comers to commit the crime before they become the members of the ring.

Talking about the pedos, they are not some odd looking characters next door, they are very often clever and educated people holding high positions jobs in our society.

I have read a pedo manifesto from Netherlands, almost on an academical level they explain their needs.. so much that my hair went up as they are talking about the children as the objects of their desire like children are the adults and are developed enough to know what their sexuality holds. Clearly they are not. The children have their parents to guide them and protect them until they become adults.They also talk about their fight similar to the fight of the homosexuals several decades ago. Which is again wrong because the homosexuals are developed adults.

I have listened to child protection specialist in UK who said whatever the police do the pedos are ( technologically) few steps ahead..

The police spends months and months to catch up these unbreakable pedo rings, only to learn that these criminals got ONLY 16 months in prison, served 8 months and are out.

Because the statistics show they are the best behaved prisoners.

I woulds be quite happy if there is no Sarah's Law but these people are held in prison for a long period of time.

But since they are soon out on the street and back to the society then obviously the parents need to know about them.
 Variola
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 64
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 2:13:23 AM

They mostly moved abroad (this is my opinion after a little research I done). To let other governments deal with them


That is exactly my point!!!!! They let other governments deal with them... others than may not require any to register!!!

This is exactly the mindset I am on about... the 'not in my town/country' attitude that is so dangerous!

I am amazed you cannot see the faulty logic of your statements despite the dangers being pointed out to you.
The innocent man point is quite an aside from the power it would give paedophiles to go to ground and to falsify documents.

Do you not rememebr when The Sun paper cleverly decided to publish names and address of convicted sex offenders? Not only were innocent men wrongly named and beaten up. but many of the ones named were driven out of their homes and off police radar. Some of them are still hidden now and the police have no idea where they are.
 Macforty
Joined: 5/15/2008
Msg: 65
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 2:16:32 AM

For example if Sarah's Law was implemented earlier this would/could have saved life of little Sarah Paine. As she was killed by a convicted pedophile.

Why would it ? The pedo killer wasnt her mums partner was he ?


People here who suggest that potential damage to innocent 'wrongly accused' people is more important than INNOCENT life of a child are IMO wrong.

I dont think people are saying that , what they are saying is that the law hasnt got a fair balance to protect ALL !

The pedos in US did not go underground in US when Megan's Law was implemented.
They mostly moved abroad (this is my opinion after a little research I done). To let other governments deal with them

Is that not going underground then ? Gary Glitter went abroad (underground) to avoid detection .

Talking about the pedos, they are not some odd looking characters next door, they are very often clever and educated people holding high positions jobs in our society.

I agree and they are also quite often a family member.


I have listened to child protection specialist in UK who said whatever the police do the pedos are ( technologically) few steps ahead..

Again I agree, which is even more reason why this new law should be scrutinised further (see fake I.D comments).
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 66
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 2:40:34 AM
I still quite welcome Sarah's Law.

As a mother I wouldn't check on everyone. Possibly I would check on none.

But I would like this law to be there. To unable me to check if I felt the need.

I think the reason for it to be implemented is because the statistics show that 75% of pedos got close to a child by befriending the mother /or father of the child

I am sure I have seen this number as I am quite good at remembering such things..

In my life only once I wanted to check on a guy who was around my son... this is due to his strange behavior around my child and instead of checking I closed all the contacts with this person. I simply cut him off.

The 'family member' thing being repeated here is the OLD STATISTIC from up to late 199s.

The new statistics show more and more strangers are hurting the children.

And again, the pedos are quite manipulative people.. if they are not they would not be able to hide lots of their crimes undetected.

Another big problem in this area is a big mess in EU countries relations and communications as there is no a central EU register of offenders and member countries are quite bad in collaborating and sharing their records.

IMO there is no 'forgiveness' in this type of crime.. as these people in majority do not feel they have done anything wrong which means there is a high possibility of them re-offending.

I researched this area of crime quite well as I wanted to take masters in this area so in general I think US is doing much better job in controlling this type of crime than Europe, Europe is very much behind and the criminals are using the situation.
 madbadsteve
Joined: 8/24/2007
Msg: 67
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 2:53:08 AM
Yet again we have a rant from Alma Mahlar.
The Sarahs law was championed by that bastion of fair play and jouralistic integrity the News of the World. The chap that killed her had been previously convicted of kidnapping a 8 year old girl and the authorities were very quickly on his case as a suspect. On his conviction he was sentanced to a MINIMUM of 50 years before he could be considered for release basicly meaning he will die in jail.
As for her talk about the "unbreakable" pedo rings, well unless she has not been following the news recently the Police have been having a lot of success in breaking these internet rings and these have led to 100's of convictions across the globe.
Criminals of all types are devious and always looking for ways to stay one step ahead of the law and the law is always looking to close of their illegal activities. The fact is child protection laws are now much stronger and better resourced than they were many years ago. Many of the high profile child abuse stories that have been in the news lately are about abuses that happened decades ago and it is only now through better systems, forensics and Police resourses that these people are being brought to justice.
The Sarahs law would not have saved Sarah, the man convicted of her killing was not known to her or her family and did not live to local to them. He had a previous conviction for mollesting a 8 year old girl but had no history of violence. Sarah tragicly was picked up at random by a stranger and that is something that is very hard to protect against. What we should keep in perspective is that murder by strangers is very rare indeed and most who are molested are molested by a close family member or friend who has no previous convictions. Again something that sarahs law would do nothing to protect against.
Once someone is convicted and put on the sex offenders register then the authorities are pretty good at keeping track of them and controling their behaviour and they do have the power to detain someone indeffinitely if they are seen as a serious danger to children.
 Variola
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 68
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 2:58:10 AM

he 'family member' thing being repeated here is the OLD STATISTIC from up to late 199s.


And if you know about crime statistics. you will know how unreliable they are. Child abuse within the family is often n0ever reported, or it comes to light later when the person has help for psychological problems. However people are rarely prosecuted after that length of time.

However children who are molested by strangers, are often reported because the family find out and it goes reported to the police.

You still dont seem to be ancknowledging the great scope this would give sex offenders to disappear from police radar.
 Macforty
Joined: 5/15/2008
Msg: 69
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 3:10:41 AM
I researched this area of crime quite well

Maybe not well enough .............

Statistics in Scotland alone show that 42% of all perpetrators were the "Natural parent" , 71% being the father 29% being the mother who sexually abused the child.

Other parental figures/step parents/ partners show in comparison only 10% of the statistics.

http://www.survivorsswindon.com/stats.htm

With this in mind , should these checks not be run a little more close to home considering your new partner is statistically speaking less likely to abuse your child than the childs natural father /mother?
 bexonlegs
Joined: 4/11/2007
Msg: 70
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Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 3:22:33 AM
I think this a fantastic idea!!!
Any man who came into my life and felt cheated/upset that id done a check on him musn't love me enough to understand why i'd done it in the first place. So many stories ive read of men KILLING babies by shaking them etc and or ABUSING them and the "mother" standing back and letting it happen or turning a blind eye.
Some people get blinded by love and bad people play on these feelings.
I dont think its political correctness gone mad or big brother syndrome-i think we ought to know who we are getting involved with and i personally believe this shouldnt just be for paedophiles, it should be wide spread and used to ensure we know if any man/women in contact with our kids has a criminal conviction for something which can put them in harms way.
Schools have to have people CRB checked as do many other organisations, so it makes sense that it should be more available to all.
 maz1960
Joined: 4/6/2007
Msg: 71
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 3:26:05 AM
What behaviour ,knowledge or suspicion would prompt you to make that call ?I have unfortunate heard from many adult survivors or child sexual abuse ,experiences of them having plucked up the tremendous courage required ,to disclose experiences of abuse only to be ignored ,or dismissed by the adult they have disclosed too .This may occur through perhaps ignorance or disbelief, or often unfortunately because the parent sees no wrong in the abusers behaviour (where there is a history of abuse through generations of a family ).Who will protect those children ?We need to educate and empower the children and adults within out society, not shut the gate once the horse has bolted !
re previous post ...removing the hands and penis (assuming the abuser is male )of the pedophile is not the solution ,as with all deviant behaviour it starts in the mind .
 enty of woth
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 72
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 3:29:55 AM
What I find more disturbing is the 'hang 'em' high', ' cut their goolies off', 'persecute even if innocent just to make sure' attitude seems to be coming almost exclusively from women! Interesting if you cross reference this thread with the 'If Women Ruled the World' thread!
 AitchEm
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 73
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 3:58:25 AM
I've been giving this subject some thought whilst doing some ironing (I do some of my best thinking whilst ironing!) & it has occured to me that this new law could be harmful in another way too. Just as some malicious women will cry rape in order to avenge some percieved slight, this law could be used in the same way ~ it only takes a few Chinese whispers to twist things so, a woman might say that she had her man checked out (maybe after he's unceremoniously dumped her, for example?) to her best mate, her best mate then tells someone else etc. etc. Before you know it, some brainless hard man will hear the gossip & take matters into his own hands.

It's decidedly unsafe in too many ways.
 enty of woth
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 74
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 4:09:27 AM

enty of woth ..i resent your last comment (read my posts please )


Read mine please. I didn't say 'all the women' have this attitude.


*ahem*!!


Ditto.
 pmb00cs
Joined: 11/2/2007
Msg: 75
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/16/2008 8:41:26 AM

What I find more disturbing is the 'hang 'em' high', ' cut their goolies off', 'persecute even if innocent just to make sure' attitude seems to be coming almost exclusively from women!
It is worth noting that the "'hang 'em' high', ' cut their goolies off'" and "'persecute even if innocent just to make sure'" view points are actually quite distinct. And the fact that in this thread they come "almost exclusively" from women is statistically insignificant, the sample set is far too small to make meaningful conclusions beyond the opinions held by the actual posters themselves. I am far more worried by the "if you have nothing to hide" brigade, it is a far more pernicious view. It is both more widely held, and more openly expressed, and yet it has a similar potential to cause far reaching and permanent damage, both to individuals and society at large.
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