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Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!      Home login  
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 shexygirl
Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 101
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!Page 5 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
well i learnt yesterday that the cbr check is next to useless so it only does a check on the county you are in. So if you lived somewhere else and committed whatever it wouldnt come up. Apparently the system is changing from november next year where you are checked from all over the country and given a number, bit like a national insurance number that remains with for life. unless of course your convicted for something and its revoked. So holly wells would have benefitted from this change as ian huntley would i believe have been red flagged. The education system who did a check on him couldnt get all info they should have got under the current system., I believe.
 willow
Joined: 12/11/2005
Msg: 102
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 3:27:54 AM
After reading through the posts I can see everyones points of view.

As a parent I know we all want to protect our children and our families children..

I have to be honest and say that if I found out there was a sex offender living close to me I dont care about any secrets act I would have been asked to sign.I would be telling anyone and everyone...I expect most on here would do the same..

Now, these offenders who now live within the catchment areas of this pilot scheme now know they probably have a good chance of being investigated..Now are they gonna run/hide/go to ground or stay and hope they never get found out..

One thing does bother me about all this, the innocent families of some sex offenders, we all know there will be the odd vigilante gang that after a few down the pub may take matters in to their own hands if they find out where one of these people live..

What if the sex offender still lives with his/her parents or other family member who is an innocent in all this..

Thing is a lad from close to where I live attacked a young girl when she was on her way home one Saturday night, she was very badly beaten up and was in intensive care for weeks...Now he was arrested after a couple of days and was kept locked up till he went to jail.

Didnt stop those who felt strongly about what he did, they put out every window of his parents home and painted all kinds of obsecitys on their walls, they couldnt walk the street ..Eventually driving them out of their home and the town..Why.?? Because they couldnt get to the one they wanted to so just took it out on the closest thing to him, his parents and their home..

I would like to think anything like this will not happen, but I suspect it will...
It has before..
 Macforty
Joined: 5/15/2008
Msg: 103
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 3:43:58 AM

not saying that at all im sure there are women pedos but its very rare and it does not always follow that the abused follow on to abuse and it also depends on what abuse we are talking about. I know if its domestic violence 73% of male abusers were abused themselves or came from homes where spousal abuse was prevalent.

Considering the topic is about sex checks one would have assumed it was about sexual abuse and not domestic violence.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V7N-4669054-C&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=29afdda6eaf158fa8791a2e6c2f93fbd

The link is biased to the debate as the study was carried out on abused "boys" only and not both sexes.

http://www.newstatesman.com/education/2007/08/young-abusers-sexual-children

Your second link confirms what I have basically stated and headlines...................
"Many abusers start offending at an early age, often having been abused themselves"

"the abused becomes the abuser "



Ok, I'm going to attack this from a new angle.

This law is designed to protect children like Sarah Payne. Could someone explain to me how this law would have saved Sarah's life? Could someone explain to me how this law would have saved the life of Holly Wells, or Jessica Chapman? Can anyone tell me how this law would save the lives of any high profile paedophilia victim that has hit the news this decade?

An excellent viewpoint and I hope that its not selectively ignored by those cherry picking and addressed with the debate it is worthy of !!
 Keefys
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 104
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 3:45:48 AM

We already have 30,000 people on the sex offenders register; people who paid the decreed price for their offence and now will spend the rest of their lives paying again. This sounds as titillatingly vast a number as it is meant to sound - although closer scrutiny shows that it certainly does not mean 30,000 icons of unparalleled evil are out on the loose; among those whose details are kept and lives monitored for ever, a great many are included for nothing more dreadful than slightly under-age, consensual sex. But never mind. Keep the figure high and the hysteria higher still.


Thank you Pat 78 for a voice of common sense amongst all of the hysteria, but I fear that common sense will be lost on the DMR's who believe the hype and imagine a Gary Glitter on every street corner. You are perfectly correct in stating that a large number on the sexual offenders register are themselves minors, often for the offence of consensual sex with an underage girlfriend or boyfriend. So there are 'sex offenders' in the school playgrounds right now, they are the children themselves.

The "protection" offered by any non-disclosure agreement is pitiful and laughable, a fig leaf for people to hide behind in support of this ridiculous scheme. Fact doesn't come into it, we already live in a world where tabloid reading chavs beat up a paediatrician because they don't know what the word means and knock the hell out of an innocent man with a neck brace because a known paedo was pictured with one on.

Let me paint you a little picture, a hypothetical scenario...

Woman 1 : I'm getting on very well with X from local street, he's a lovely guy, we're going to move in together to see how it goes.
Woman 2 : Are you going to get him checked out by the police first because of your kids?
Woman 1 : Of course, I know he's OK but my family want me to do it.

Three weeks go by...

Woman 2 : How's it with you and X then?
Woman 1 : There were some problems, it didn't work out, I've decided not to see him again.

Later that day...

Woman 2 : I spoke to 1 earlier, she's no longer seeing that X bloke. She said she was going to get him checked out by the police and now she's stopped seeing him.
Woman 3 : I know him, he lives on his own doesn't he.
Woman 4: That does seem a bit strange doesn't it.

Can you see where this is heading?

A brick goes through X's window what evening, the next day he is grabbed coming out the local pub and given a beating that puts him in intensive care. That's a great shame for the disabled children he teaches, X is in fact a perfectly innocent special needs teacher with a full enhanced CRB clearance. His crime was to have a relationship that didn't work out.

Now tell me that isn't going to happen, or tell me "That's OK, it's only to protect the children you know".
 bexonlegs
Joined: 4/11/2007
Msg: 105
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Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 4:03:51 AM
Keefys
I agree with what your saying but to be honest,any women with kids, if she were a decent mum, would not move a guy in she did not know for their relationship to only break down within a few weeks. Its not fair on anyone, let alone the kids.( trust me, i know what I'm talking about) And if in this instance his job/personal life was affected by a backlash then yes i completely agree this is not acceptable and the perportraters should be dealt with.
However, i think we should have the right to know who we are getting involved with, and rightly or wrongly, when men reach a certain age (40ish) and have never been married and/or are living with parents it does send alarm bells ringing!
 Keefys
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 106
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 4:21:11 AM
The point about my little hypothetical story was to show how this ridiculous scheme will create innocent victims. All too often on these forums we hear the DMR's saying things like "there's no smoke without fire you know..." and the hysteria surrounding this issue will mean that the very fact somebody has been checked out (regardless of outcome!) will mean to some people that they are "dodgy" in some way. Rumour leads to fear, innocent people get hurt.

With all due respect you have already fallen into the trap of suspecting any single man who has never been married or who lives with his parents. Statistically you would be better looking at the married ones as the majority of abusers are ordinary trusted family members, NOT the vastly over hyped "stranger danger" that is so rare it fills the tabloids when it does.

This new scheme will do nothing to protect children, only you as parents can do that. Now that this sordid government has got the few column inches of coverage from the DMR "something must be done" brigade it will be dropped as the ineffective, and dangerous, waste of time and money that it is.
 oggers
Joined: 5/10/2007
Msg: 107
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Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 5:26:53 AM
Whilst I am in no doubt that this scheme will find out ex offenders (and therefore potential future offenders..?), I can see several pitfalls ... not least:

1) potential for identity fraud , offenders getting through the system
2) false accusation / police errors leading to innocent guys being wrongly accused either by the authorities or by a vindictive ex partner.

Also, does this law give the same right of checking to be given to single fathers ..??

I can promise you one thing however - If in the unlikely event that I am wrongly accused of being a sex offender by the old bill or a pissed off mother, I shall sue their asses for as much as possible !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 pmb00cs
Joined: 11/2/2007
Msg: 108
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 5:55:25 AM

So holly wells would have benefitted from this change as ian huntley would i believe have been red flagged.
Ian Huntley may, or may not have been red flagged, however he was not known to his victims through anything that this system would have changed.
The education system who did a check on him couldnt get all info they should have got under the current system.
Yes they did a check, but that is immaterial, as it had nothing to do with the contact he had with his victims.

Ian Huntley was known to his victim through his girlfriends work at their school. Yes he worked at a school, but not the school his victims went too. His victims were believed to be looking for Huntley's girlfriend when he invited them into his home. Nothing this law does would have changed anything in this scenario.
 shexygirl
Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 109
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 6:14:44 AM

Women are between two and three times more likely to experience sexual abuse than men. Moreover, women are more likely to be abused by a family member and men by strangers.



Most discussions of who commits sexual abuse focus on adults and either strangers or family members. This study revealed that over one quarter of assaults are committed by peers (i.e. individuals under 18) and that the highest proportion of abusers is known adults/peers (e.g. family friends, neighbours, private tutors, vicars, scout leaders, babysitters, current and ex-boyfriends/girlfriends, acquaintances).



The vast majority of abuse was committed by men. Female abusers were 15% in the peer abuse category and 5% in the adult category. Most of the events involving female abusers were reported by young men.


Just a few highlighted paragraphs from this study :

http://www.cwasu.org/project_display.asp?pageid=PROJECTS&type=11&pagekey=55&year=1998



This quote below is from :
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20030206/do-sexually-abused-kids-become-abusers


The message here is that sexual victimization alone is not sufficient to suggest a boy is likely to grow up to become a sex offender," study author and psychiatrist Arnon Bentovim tells WebMD. "But our study does show that abused boys who grow up in families where they are exposed to a great deal of violence or neglect are at particular risk."


hope it helps macforty
 1LOVEJELLY
Joined: 9/7/2008
Msg: 110
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Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 7:32:28 AM
I still maintain that it will certainly put the vast majority of sensible caring men off going anywhere near any woman with children, thus ensuring a whole new generation of women will be unloved until their children move out.

Also we are already seeing a whole generation of young people that dont know what its like to be cuddled by anyone other than mum and therefore they feel paricularly unattached from society as a whole and are turning to gangs as a substitute family.

I know there is a risk from some men/women but its still a very small risk.
 doffenschmirtz
Joined: 4/20/2007
Msg: 111
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 8:00:44 AM
i think men and women equally should be checked for any violent or abusive behaviour would stop alot of peado's and bunny boilers getting there clutches into new people

i have to say tho the whole he was abused became an abuser thing makes me so cross it just another excuse for scum to keep being scum im not saying there is not a circle of abuse that passes on i understand the pyscology of it BUT everyone has free choice/will yet they choosethey choose to continue the abuse
 Macforty
Joined: 5/15/2008
Msg: 112
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 8:09:16 AM
http://www.cwasu.org/project_display.asp?pageid=PROJECTS&type=11&pagekey=55&year=1998



hope it helps macforty

Yes thank you, it has interesting stats ..............

14% of abusers were close relatives, 68% were more distant relatives and other previously known persons, 18% were strangers.

From the link you have provided it has shown stats that basically state a stranger in your life is less likely to abuse your child than relatives or those known to him/her !!


http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20030206/do-sexually-abused-kids-become-abusers


Also quoted from that article............


Roughly one in 10 male victims of child sex abuse in a U.K. study later went on to abuse children as adults. But the risk was far greater for sexually victimized children who came from severely dysfunctional families. Family history of violence, sexual abuse by a female, maternal neglect, and lack of supervision were all associated with a threefold-increased risk that the abused would become an abuser

One in Ten males + females who were excluded from the study so the abused who go on to abuse would in fact be statistically higher wouldnt it ?
Either way there is statistically a pattern .
 Pat78
Joined: 8/29/2008
Msg: 113
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 8:27:04 AM
There was a documentary on a few weeks ago about Maxine Carr living in the local community as she is out of prison. There were 4 communities that were convinced that there was 4 women who looked similar to Maxine Carr and that it was in fact her. One of theses ladies may of been Maxine Carr, the programme didn't say but what is clear that we already have 4 people were mistaken identity had taken place and the treatment of theses women was despicable and they lived in fear.
The Police assured them the comnmunity that they were infact not Maxine Carr but the community stressed that they agreed as she would of had a new identity, and even if she was they wouldn't tell them.
Theses communities were not sure so may of held back, but what if they were sure? the police confirmed their suspicions, what do we think the outcome would be? if maxine carr, venables and Thompson all get new identities to avoid the wrath of society why would we then tell the public at large who paedophiles are, because their are many ammongst us that will retaliate. This law is not the answer, that doesn't stop the question being asked and another better answer needs to be found to protect our children.
 Sandbagger
Joined: 2/17/2007
Msg: 114
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 8:37:22 AM

But the government tend to use laws like this to 'snake' in the idea that its ok for anyone to check anyone else's record at anytime. Once its established that society will accept that... then its quite ok for them to check up on anyone at anytime , which they do anyway they just don't make it public.
What id this law was used to check up on employees? Or tennants? Will the check disclose whether they have any criminal record at all> Or just if they are on the sex offenders list?
If my future potential partner, had been an armed robber, or been convicted of a serious assault but not a sex offender, would I know this?


Exactly.
Or what if they once cheated on an ex, or pinched an apple from a market stall, or had a stand up row in the street? Or any other ridiculous insignificant act from their past.
Do we now have to carry a sworn statement which is a transcript of our whole lives for any possible partner to read through so that we can be vetted for approval?
 1LOVEJELLY
Joined: 9/7/2008
Msg: 115
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Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 8:42:15 AM
Sandbagger you are so right.
Has all this information on us redused crime?
I think not!
 leeparsons
Joined: 4/27/2007
Msg: 116
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Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 3:59:00 PM
LoL! I think its right for a person to know who they are getting involved with. Thou, I don't think will strength the relationship and ultimately cause it to demize. My question is, will this work the other way around. Men checking on womens background?
One thinks this could be a slight baisied law, which would only cater one sex. This has been proven to be similar in other laws as well!
Lee
 Steve_Sandy
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 117
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Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/17/2008 4:26:48 PM
Someone asked about women pedos....

Myra Hyndley ? or whatever she is called ?

Recall single dads can do the checks, the interesting bit comes when they tell their friends and they start gossiping down the pub, soon enough will have a mob going after people who put paediatrician as their job title, sort of close and who cares when drunk.....
 electric-gypsy
Joined: 10/23/2007
Msg: 118
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Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/18/2008 6:29:04 AM
I totally agree with Sarah's Law. Put children's needs first. Everyone else's interest should come second.


One thinks this could be a slight baisied law, which would only cater one sex.


The overwhelming majority of child sex offenders are men, so it makes sense that we (mothers) should have the right to vet potential partners.

If men are worried about being victimised by the new system, they should stop assaulting children. If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to moan about.
 Variola
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 119
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/18/2008 6:34:16 AM

totally agree with Sarah's Law. Put children's needs first. Everyone else's interest should come second.


Apart from the point that it actully puts children in more danger...
 electric-gypsy
Joined: 10/23/2007
Msg: 120
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Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/18/2008 6:35:27 AM

Apart from the point that it actully puts children in more danger...


How does it do that?
 Variola
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 121
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/18/2008 7:50:14 AM
By vigilante groups driving paedophiles underground so they drop off police radars.
They can form new IDs, new life and then they are a real danger to children.
 pmb00cs
Joined: 11/2/2007
Msg: 122
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/18/2008 3:52:07 PM

The overwhelming majority of child sex offenders are men,
The vast majority of child sex offenders are also known to the child through family (most commonly a natural parent) and unknown to the court system. So how will sarah's law help?
If men are worried about being victimised by the new system, they should stop assaulting children.
I find that highly offensive. I am personally worried about how this new law will effect me, but I have never assaulted a child, nor would I ever do so. The implication that because I fear this law is both ill thought out, and that it may affect me directly I must be a child sex pest is both insulting and insensitive.
If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to moan about.
Having something to hide is neither illegal or morally objectionable. You have absolutely no right to pry into my life, and nor does the government. When I am convicted of a crime I shall expect to be punished for it. But as I have not yet been convicted of any crime all you "If you have nothing to hide" bunch can kindly bugger off and mind your own ****ing business!
 enty of woth
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 123
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/19/2008 5:59:41 AM
msg 133, well put, couldn't have said it better myself.
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 124
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/19/2008 1:30:30 PM
Man arrested after Sarah's Law call
Police have arrested a man after a call to a 'Sarah's Law' phone line

A man was arrested after a call to a special "Sarah's Law" pilot scheme phone line, police said.

The scheme, which was launched on Monday, allows parents in four areas to ask police if anyone with access to their children has convictions for child sex offences.

Warwickshire Police said four calls had been received since the launch and one prompted police to take "immediate action".

Detective Chief Inspector Debbie Tedds said: "One of the calls received was from a member of the public raising concern about a child and as a result immediate action was taken to protect children at risk.

"A man has been arrested and inquiries are ongoing. Agencies in Warwickshire were not previously aware of the child or the circumstances."

The year-long pilots were launched in response to demands from parents to know where convicted paedophiles were living.

The campaign for a law was launched after the murder of eight-year-old Sarah Payne by Roy Whiting in 2000.

The trials are being held in Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, Southampton, Stockton in Cleveland and Warwickshire.

Since Monday about 36 members of the public have made requests for information under the scheme, but not all were from within the pilot areas or fell within the scope of the scheme, police said.

A Home Office spokesman said: "The child sex offender disclosure pilots are a huge step forward and are one of the measures in place to ensure Britain continues to be one of the leading countries in the management of registered sexual offenders."
http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=9667957
 Just Chattin
Joined: 6/19/2008
Msg: 125
Sarah's Law Gives Mothers Right To Make 'Sex Checks' !!
Posted: 9/20/2008 12:03:59 AM
I totally agree with pmb00cs, and never thought of it from that point of view.

I just hate to think (its a passion of mine) that sex offenders no matter what sex they are should have the right to a luxury living inside a warm jail, with snooker tables and no bills. They get fed bed to sleep on (while some people sleep on the streets) and pay no contribution to any of it.

Whether people think it stupid, nasty or down right sick, if forensics prove and they admit to doing the crime they should step it up a gear and prevent it happening again.

Alternative turn em over to a room full of mothers and victims families for a day and save us tax payers the drain on the resources.

They have NO GOD DAMN RIGHT touching a child or anyone else act like an a**e hole get the true come uppance !
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