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Posted: 9/17/2008 11:58:51 AM | I never denied that I missed a lot of infractions on both sides of the fence. I read what posts I could, caught the ones that were reported.
Fiddler - if there are 10 times as many liberals in the forums as conservatives, would it not stand to reason that you would have gotten 10 times as many compaints about conservatives as you did about liberals? Could that explain these perceptions?
I'm curious - what is YOUR opinion about all this? What do YOU think is at the root of the problem? Did you get overwhelmed? | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:03:57 PM | I post in two forums. The Religion Forum has more content and posts and threads and interesting discussions (IMHO) than the other. Statistically, I don't get it. But it's your ball so you get to decide what the rules of play are and I can respect that. 
TMF: I thank you for the good job you did. I know I couldn't do all that work. | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:13:49 PM | I must admit I am thuroughly disappointed to see the removal of the Current Events and Politics forum. There were many good conversation in there, and while I may thuroughly disagree with a lot of the posters, I respect their right to state there opinion. I would love to see these forums come back up. I don't know how much time I'll spend here without those being up.
Fiddler, always loved your remarks and your attempts to try to moderate the forums. While they may have been unsuccessful at times, you are well respected by many of the posters. | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:14:02 PM | Thanks TMF. For trying to keep the forums on an even keel in the sea of threads.  | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:14:10 PM | Amin's premise is wrong.
Many of the guys like me don't like to post in dating related topics.
It is not our thing to talk about that stuff.
My only attraction were current even forums.
If they are not coming back in their normal form, I will not only stop posting, but I will also unregister my self. | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:17:36 PM | This is sad news. Politics forum was a great forum to see what others across the county and around the globe thought about the 2008 election. Yeah, sure, there were unsubstantiated claims, passionate posts pro and con, outrageous remarks, but by and large there was intelligent discussions on topics. Heck you can find the some very outrageous remarks and unsubstantiated claims in some profiles!!! That doesn't make it a bad thing.
Please reconsider it's deletion. Without these forums it lessens the value of POF by quite a bit. | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:20:10 PM |
Fiddler - if there are 10 times as many liberals in the forums as conservatives, would it not stand to reason that you would have gotten 10 times as many compaints about conservatives as you did about liberals? Could that explain these perceptions?
I'm curious - what is YOUR opinion about all this? What do YOU think is at the root of the problem? Did you get overwhelmed?
Actually this is something I would rather take to email at this point if I were to continue it because I don't know how productive it would be to discuss it in this thread and may only serve to produce more negative feelings on both sides. I think that ratio is exaggerated by a rather large bit although I would say the liberal to moderate posters tended to outnumber the more conservative poster in the forums removed...as usual though they were a microcosm of reality...most people tended to fall into the moderate camp and there were a core group at the fringes of each side that were much more vocal...and the liberal side slightly outnumbered the conservative.
It was also my experience - take it for what you will - sadly, that people from either side that could develop cogent arguments without resorting to logical fallacy, name-calling and flame-baiting of one type or another were very few in number.
People that tended to begin arguments with "typical (insert ideology) thinking" were starting to get as thick as fleas on a hound... and unless that thinking refers to certain types of common knowledge regarding that type of thought - socioeconomic policy with a long history of practice - then we know we are headed for the sewer. Both sides did this frequently.
So, yes. I was overwhelmed and so was everyone else...and frustrated. There were days I actually felt "stupider" after glancing at the forums.
As I was often told by another moderator, "late", I don't think the problem is the people, or the politics, I think the problem is that generally people don't know how to construct a good argument and don't understand the art of the dialectic. Those posters that are really good at it, I could count on two hands, frankly, and it's trickle down from there. Occasional rules violators or people who got temporary suspensions just slipped...anyone can do that. I did once before I became a mod - shoot from the lip...just like I did a couple posts up before I edited it.
Chronic violators and people that end up getting perma-banned just don't get it. Conservative, liberal or kook, they just want to say what they want with impunity and don't know how to interact and discuss in polite society with others...it's their way or the highway. Those are the people that are the problem...they also are probably the most vocal complainants to the Admin about their "free speech" being infringed upon, and likely at least partly at the root of the forums being shut down. Not the kind of folks you'd invite over to dinner because you'd spend the night not knowing if you'd want to pass the gravy boat to them or heat it up and throw it in their face.
So no, I didn't get THAT disproportionate a level of complaints. That would really be stretching it. I think what I have described about covers it...anything else, please email me. | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:20:42 PM | Montreal Guy:
As much as I may disagree with you, I'll respect your right to express what you have to say.
No matter what you say, as long as you can hold yourself in check from crossing that line in the sand.
That's the problem here, the few ruining it for the many, who took the time and effort to play by the rules.
They've won, we've lost. That is EXACTLY how I feel! There are many of us who grew immensely from our interactions in the religion forum and learned to stand on pluralistic middle ground.. the ones who didn't got their walking papers...
And now the ones who did their best to keep themselves in check, the ones who earned their right to stick around.. WE are being punished.. ? It honestly doesn't make sense from this perspective at all.
Fiddler you did an excellent job in a very difficult position dealing with many a hot head and closed mind with a fair although many were blind to it and balanced hand. Exactly!!! I meant EVERY word of my testimonial to you Madfiddler.. even before you became a mod you were perfect for the job.. keeping the zealous trolls in line with your special brand of impartial intelligence and humor..
I bet if there was a vote, it would be nearly unanimous to reinstate you as a mod, the only ones who would vote against are the trolls.. and what does THAT say?
I will miss the interactions with all you aweswome people I developed connections with (even the ones who annoyed me!) dearly.. and not that it will change anything, but I am seriously reevaluating why I would even stay here...
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:22:33 PM | Well, that's too bad.
I didn't go into Religion/Spirituality nor Politics, but keeping up on Current Events and news can never be a bad thing.
I'm also one of those who spent far more time in forums than the other portion.
And the other forum areas were getting to be the same old, same old.
At least the current events were current.
(sigh) Oh well, the new term is upon me so I won't have much time to spend here until next year anyway. So that can't be all bad. | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:23:10 PM | Thanks for the insight Peter - again - thanks for all your hard work, and the many, many long and often frustrating hours you put into it my friend...
Mark | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:29:38 PM | Dear Mods & Admin
Politics, Religion, and Current Events are IMPORTANT when Dating. I want someone that I am political and religiously compatible with and that I can discuss current events with. I love the POF Politics Forum (there are very intelligent people on there who respectfully share their opinions, thoughts, and insights with each other). I have made some great friends on there and look forward to reading their posts. The vast majority of the threads are very relevant to 2008 and to dating.
Please change your minds.
Thanking you
Ricky | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:38:51 PM | There are after all, other web sites which handle political forums. In fact there are others which are dedicated to politics and current events.
Frankly, the whole thing doesn't make much sense to me.
But then, I'm reminded of a line from the Bhagavadgita, " Who are ye to judge God " ? | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:41:56 PM | I still haven't seen a reason that would convince me they needed to be removed
less than 200 people who post in those 3 forums If that's the case, are those forums really taking up that many resources on this site?
Glancing at many smaller state and provincial forums, I see that there is a significant number of them that have less than 20 regular posters. Shouldn't they be removed too?
are not dating related Neither are the Single Parent, Health, Science, Travel, Sports, and Art/music forums
hotbed for trolls The "Ask A ..." forums are also a hotbed. Apparently they will remain.
Certainly didn't seem to be helping anyone find a date. I don't know about that.
Isn't it possible that 2 people who both have a passion for discussing current events, or who have similar political opinions, or who enjoy discussing religion, may notice each other through those forums?
Clearly the forums should not be used to broadcast oneself, which is obviously not what I was stating. That being said, no where will you find a moderator saying that the forums should not be helpful to helping aid others in dating. By this I mean, I feel the forums should help with dating advice and related questions. I now realise what you were saying.
I can see the usefullness of having forums which allow people ton seek dating advice.
But can there not also be a place where those who have little, or no, interest in dating advice, can have logical discussions on other topics?
Deleting general discussions forums, while allowing the forums that are a haven for chat and nonsense posts to stay, contradicts everything that the mods have always been stating about what these forums are meant to be.
Local forums are supposed to be about local events. I don't go to local events.
Since you're happy to see forums, which you had no interest in, dissappearring because they're a waste of moderator resources, would you agree with me that the local event forums, which I have no interest in, should be removed?
Since I have no interest in singles gathers, I consider it a waste of moderator resources to provide space for these event threads which must be monitored to weed out spammers trying to promote their own bars, people advertising charity evernts, people promoting their own band, people advertising events hosted by other groups etc.
By comparision, to me, it seems like the local events are a bigger waste of mod resources, than a small handful of people wanting to discuss news and current events.
Who can fault the owner for not wanting to pay for bandwith space for just a bunch of arguements, fights and b.s. What about the bandwith space that he's gladlly providing to allow thousands of people to keep re-asking the same generic dating advice questions?
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:42:16 PM | | I'm bummed..I do realize I was one of the jerks that posted my rage toward others in the beginning as they did toward me and when warned I backed down...Usually..I got alot of my news here..I also disagree with those changes but it's your dating site bummer..I guess it's better not to know who your dating. | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:53:53 PM | | In retrospect, does anyone know of another place where discussion of politics, world issues, and current events is welcomed? | |
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Posted: 9/17/2008 12:54:57 PM |
Isn't it possible that 2 people who both have a passion for discussing current events, or who have similar political opinions, or who enjoy discussing religion, may notice each other through those forums?
Agreed, heated discussion is great foreplay...
Most of the profiles people put on her don't really tell you jack squat about who they are... how many permutations of 'I want a man who doesn't play games and who is a gentleman' can you read before your eyes glaze over?
Any interest I've developed in women on this site has been strongly based on the quality of their forum posts... on seeing how their minds work and how they handle language.
In retrospect, does anyone know of another place where discussion of politics, world issues, and current events is welcomed?
I'd be interested in hearing about such places too. | |
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Posted: 9/19/2008 12:33:27 PM | I predict a huge increase in the popularity of off topic.
No Rule you can't make Politics related Threads in the Off-Topic Forum Category providing its not being overrun by these Topics, as that is the Forum it now goes into. Removal of these Categories merely prevent Promotion of them.
I get the impression that it's a combination of staffing, and a desire to increase the site's user-base to increase revenue.
The Intent to automate everything.
In the name of profit, moderator resources are now spent babysitting mindless chatters, rather than moderating legitimate discussion topics.
Moderaters had been assigned to those Forums but resulted in little Change.
Abuse it, you lose it. And those who see trolling going on and don't report also become their Victims of their own Inaction.
I recall a comment by a mod in another thread that the greater number of forum users are readers.
All the Slag Matches, Elbow Action & Agenda Trolls made them nearly impossible to follow, esp. when many Posts would go on for well over 5,000 Characters citing this Link and that Link.
But in short, additional Moderation or Adminstrative Action could have dealt with the Abusers and left readable worthwhile Forums.
Garbage forums like Single Parents, Over 45, Ask A girl, etc. Yet those forums remain.
Yup ... if these Junk Forums would have been toasted instead there would have been much more Time available to look after the Current Events/News, Politics and Religion Forums. But that would not have been enough. Extremely heavy Buckle Downs on many extand Posters would also had to follow. Some of the most intelligent People we had on Site could be found in these. In the End it all comes down to making Things work.
Would it be possible to create a way for people to read a post, and then instantly be able to register a complaint (similar to the delete thread "vote" ) - by USER.
It already exists, but hasn't been attended to by Moderators for well over 2 Years. In Order to make it work, a full Time Admin/Mod would have to be placed to deal with only those Reports. Everyting can be fixed, but if one is intend on automating everything in favour of rolling up one's Sleeves, Services and Functions get axed.
And I will also point out that these implications of lack of moderator impartiality are a good way to get this thread - which I might add are a courtesy of the Admin to see what the prevailing opinions are of this forum adjustment - shut down, thus closing the door on your last chance to have your opinion heard.
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