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| | Full Scale Financial MeltdownPage 10 of 10 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) |
Irresponsible usage of credit is the sole contribution.
I doubt that alone caused the crisis.
Do you really think that so many banks would be in trouble, had they not bought securities backed by bad mortgages? | |
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edisto
| | Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 227 | |
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/30/2008 6:07:09 PM |
You can't cite a single example of relevant deregulation
relevant deregulation- subprime loans being the norm
You the one doing the semantic dance here
you are the one who wrote that it's not deregulation, it's meddling that was the issue- which is an argument over semantics
you wrote "and only democrats strong armed the banks to make risky loans"
so you're saying that me interupting that to mean - only democrats strong armed the banks to make risky loans - was being "dishonest".... they're your exact words, how else would you interpret it? by saying "only democrats" means you're excluding republicans- surely you took logic-
and the link I provided- it explains that because the credit cards companies are charging more interest - home buyers are having a harder time paying morgages because of their increase in debt- did you read the article?
YOU are always asking the questions- so here goes
explain how credit cards have no impact on the financial meltdown-
why has Greenspan stated degregulation is in part the reason for the mess we're in, but you act as if deregulation hasn't even been defined let alone taken place- | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/30/2008 6:18:39 PM |
Umm.. do you know what "unsecured" means? And what is the default rate on credit card debt?
I am still waiting for an explanation of unsecured debt... post 222
You can't cite a single example of relevant deregulation
-
A few of the banking and finance de-regulations that helped the current problem. DO you want more?
Usury and ARM's with easy credit terms to refin when interest rate goes down, everyone knows an ARM is a short term loan.
Everyone knows about the LIBOR and how it effect your payment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Gramm-Leach-Bliley bank deregulation bill.
Sen. Gramm co-sponsored the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Commodity Futures Modernization Act which deregulated energy futures.
In 2002, all 50 attorneys general pleaded with the Bush Administration to stop the predatory lending practices they knew would lead to the collapse we see today. Instead of helping, in 2003, Bush invoked a clause from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>1863 National Bank Act nullifying all state predatory lending laws.
I want to know how the numbers of Sub-Prime add up to the Trillion and half the US kicked in, the $900 billion for Germany , BK Iceland, BK Ireland, Spain big bucks, France Big Bucks. Russian Oligarchy bust........
How did this happen?
Because of 5% delinquent Sub-Prime loans?
Or just the Dem's and Barn Frank...... | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/31/2008 11:33:19 AM | You can't cite a single example of relevant deregulation relevant deregulation- subprime loans being the norm
Subprime loans were THE NORM now? Even if it WAS true, this might be an example of change in the marketplace, but it is not a de facto example of relevant deregulation.
For it to be so, you would have to be able to cite an example of relevant federal regulation that was relaxed in order to make it happen.
You can't.
only democrats strong armed the banks to make risky loans - was being "dishonest".... they're your exact words, how else would you interpret it? by saying "only democrats" means you're excluding republicans- surely you took logic-
I'll concede this point in part. Only in part, because I aven't seen any record of Republicans blocking efforts to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, who were largely responsible for the mess.
YOU are always asking the questions- so here goes
explain how credit cards have no impact on the financial meltdown-
Why should I explain a claim I didn't make? Because you can't back yours with facts? | |
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edisto
| | Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 230 | |
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/31/2008 3:17:39 PM |
Why should I explain a claim I ddn't make??
I stated that credit cards added to the financial meltdown-
but you disagreed, which means you are stating that credit cards did not add to the financial meltdown
when you oppose another's statement it is then up to you to back up YOUR statement
apparently you took latin but not logic or debate~
come off the slopes sir and ask the average American if credit cards did indeed add to this meltdown, I am pretty sure that the majority of Americans would say yes- few have to read about it because they are the ones experiencing it- | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/31/2008 5:02:49 PM | It's a sad fact that our leaders only real 'cure' for the finacial mess is to lower interest rates.
This is surely adding more fuel to the fire by promoting borrowing and punishing savers....the very opposite of what is needed when banks need liquidity.......savers funds.
Added to this, they are borrowing huge sums of money to prop up a failing system.....This is money that has to be paid back plus interest.....$20billion annual interest on the $700billion 'bailout'
True, it might have spawned a rally on the markets but the biggest rallies in the past have ALWAYS happened in times of great declines.
Also true is that many companies are undervalued which is what's also fuelling the rally in the markets.....but it can't possibly last.
As some already realise, our over use of credit cards is the next big failure that's looming and it's going to hit even harder.
When credit was easy and people saw great equity in their homes , job security because of the credit boom they thought nothing of charging their holidays and new vehicles to their credit cards, afterall, they could swap their balance to new cards to benefit from 0% interest periods.
If a time of reckoning came they'd just remortgage their home to release the equity and pay off their credit cards.
With 0% interest periods now running out and unemployment increasing more and more people are defaulting on their card payments and as home equity loans are increasingly difficult to come by cheaply the effects can only spiral downwards.
The result will mean less spending on the high st, more retailers failing, more job losses, more credit card defaults......and so on.
With the sub-prime failure the banks always had assets (peoples homes) as security but credit cards are unsecured so the only recourse of the credit companies is to declare the defaulter bankrupt and take the very shirt off his back.
Declaring someone bankrupt is a legal process and takes time and money so the potential for credit companies(worldwide banks) failing is greatly increased and a ticking time bomb.
Ho, happy day  | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/31/2008 9:04:24 PM | I stated that credit cards added to the financial meltdown-
but you disagreed, which means you are stating that credit cards did not add to the financial meltdown
No, I asked you to back your claim with some facts, which you have yet to do.
If you can't see the difference, perhaps I should stop paying attention to your posts.
come off the slopes sir and ask the average American if credit cards did indeed add to this meltdown, I am pretty sure that the majority of Americans would say yes- few have to read about it because they are the ones experiencing it-
When did the opinion of the "average american" become the determinant of what is factual? Does the "average american" even know what Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae ARE and what they DO? | |
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edisto
| | Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 233 | |
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/31/2008 9:45:35 PM |
When did the opinion of the "average american" become the determinant of what is factual?
good god, if one is suffering from excessive debt from ARMs or high credit card debt, then they are the ones that the reporters are basing their articles on when they write about the financial meltdown, the "average American" is who the facts are actually based on....
in every argument, facts and opinions are mixed all the time, read your own posts for examples of this....
your answer to every thing that I have posted is - "you're wrong" without a hint of factual evidence on your part, just because you're mantra is "you're wrong" isn't exactly a factual argument on your side, it is just is an argument based on, just YOUR opinion, so to critisize me for a shortage of facts is rather, the pot calling the kettle black...
If you can't see the difference, perhaps I should stop paying attention to your posts.
as if, I cared~ | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/31/2008 9:48:43 PM | your answer to every thing that I have posted is - "you're wrong" without a hint of factual evidence on your part
Thanks for coming out and making it clear that you're willing to lie outright to appear to have a point.
I haven't posted "you're wrong" or anything like it. I have asked you to substantiate your claims, of which you've done a poor job. Since you're willing to lie outright about my posts, I suspect you're quite aware of this.
but you disagreed, which means you are stating that credit cards did not add to the financial meltdown
I asked you to support your claim with some facts, which AFAIK, you have yet to do. | |
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edisto
| | Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 235 | |
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/31/2008 10:48:58 PM | ^^^^^^
"you're wrong" was me, paraphrasing your responses, though you never came out and used these exact words, you disagreed with my statement concerning credit cards fueling the financial meltdown and therefore, was contending that "I was wrong"-
in other words, your asking for facts to show that credit cards helped fuel this meltdown meant that you did not agree with me, and therefore, you think I'm wrong, the words do not have to be stated, they can be implied-
to say that I am "willing to lie outright to appear to have a point" is preposterous
to call me a liar- is disgusting, but I will chalk it up to the thin air affecting your brain~
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 11/4/2009 2:24:17 AM | I see the blame game is in full swing, even after all this time.
Bush haters blaming Bush, corporate haters blaming Wall Street for their endless greed, anti-government haters blaming the Fed, Congress, and White House for not reigning in that greed, "smart" people blaming dummies who took advantage of all those subprime loans they couldn’t possibly pay back, bank haters blaming all those greedy lenders for offering and accepting bad loans in the first place. Conservatives blaming liberals, and vice-versa. I've even seen Obama being blamed?  The list is virtually endless.
Do you see a pattern? Everybody blaming someone else. We are a nation of responsibility shifters—practically professional at it.
Bottom line is, in a very real sense, we are all to blame.
I didn’t see any of this righteous anger and finger pointing when everything was going like gangbusters, when housing prices were spiraling ever higher and people were buying real estate only to flip houses for huge profits. I didn’t see any anger over years of lax financial regulation and oversight that pumped up the housing bubble and pushed along an artificially bullish stock market that had people's investment value skyrocket.
As we now know, all those years of high living was an illusion based on toxic loans, false assumptions, inflated bottom lines, an misplaced optimism.
But nobody wanted the party to end.
If any government financial oversight agency actually did their job and came down hard with regulation, thus deflating the balloon, they would have been immediately and viciously attacked by those profiting from the party (which, as we know, was practically everyone).
Btw, the problems that created the financial meltdown have NOT been fixed. Existing regulations are still not being vigorously enforced and the loopholes the crisis exposed are still not closed. We could very well have another damaging bust, probably in either the commercial real estate or credit card markets.
To stop the cycle of bubbles we need to fix the system, and fast. But that takes the will of “everyone”, and right now the financial lobbyist and special interests are applying huge pressure on Congress and the Obama administration to stop the needed reforms in their tracks, and they’re succeeding.
Critics are almost apoplectic with rage about the stimulus and healthcare, when the real focus right now should be on avoiding another financial crash, because the next one nobody will be able to fix. | |
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