| | Full Scale Financial MeltdownPage 3 of 10 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) | Did you read the last paragraph of your citation?
Nevertheless, the center's information does reflect which candidates are getting the most money from Fannie and Freddie employees. There are other ways to parse the campaign finance numbers, but McCain is correct when he says Obama got the second-most money on a list compiled by a respected, nonpartisan campaign finance watchdog. He would have been more accurate if he would have noted that he was talking about Fannie and Freddie employees. We rate his statement Mostly True.
And that statement rated mostly true was, Obama received more money. | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/23/2008 8:43:56 PM |
Did you read the last paragraph of your citation? [...]
And that statement rated mostly true was, Obama received more money. And what does that tell you if hundreds of mostly middle class employees gave donations of as little as $5 over the past 8 years to add up to $126,349, and McCain only got $21,550. By those standards (using employees), Obama would lead nearly every large corporation's donations.
But the 40 directors, officers and lobbyists for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae gave $169,000 to McCain's campaign over the last year and a half, while only giving Obama $16,000.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/19/fact-check-did-obama-profit-from-fannie-and-freddie/ | |
|
timj82
| | Joined: 5/19/2008 Msg: 53 | |
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/23/2008 9:55:04 PM | I saw this posted on another forum. Hope it doesn't get me on vacation. ________
Dear American:
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.
I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transaction is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury dotgov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
Yours Faithfully, Minister of Treasury Paulson _______
tongue in cheek - smile | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/26/2008 9:35:37 AM |
Nevertheless, the center's information does reflect which candidates are getting the most money from Fannie and Freddie employees. There are other ways to parse the campaign finance numbers, but McCain is correct when he says Obama got the second-most money on a list compiled by a respected, nonpartisan campaign finance watchdog. He would have been more accurate if he would have noted that he was talking about Fannie and Freddie employees. We rate his statement Mostly True.
You forgot to include this part of the same politfact.com report.
The source for this data is the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, which has compiled a list of which political leaders received the most money from employees of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Obama's campaign cites this source to back up its claim that John McCain has received more than $2-million from big oil.
| |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/26/2008 12:44:44 PM | OMG! Maybe you forgot to include this part: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/23/headlines#6
McCain’s Campaign Manager Linked to Mortgage Giants The New York Times has revealed Senator John McCain’s campaign manager Rick Davis was paid nearly $2 million to serve as president of an advocacy group set up by the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. As president of the Homeownership Alliance, Davis earned more than $30,000 a month for five years to beat back regulatory challenges as they began buying riskier mortgages with implicit federal backing. | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/26/2008 6:04:15 PM | NO doubt, there is pleny of "perpetrators" to choose.. But it just ocurred to me that NO ONE HAS SEEN MR GREESPAN LATELY... !! No one has been able to inteview him in the last 4 weeks. Neither the director of the worl bank as well as the I.M.F.. What is going on..?? Do they know something that some people does NOT want the average american citizen TO KNOW..?? Mr. GREENSPAN has been talking about this FOR YEARS... !!! Why NO ONE OAID ATTENTION TO HIM..??? HHUUMM..!! Does anyone knows WHERE HE IS..???  | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/26/2008 9:08:41 PM | Does anyone remember the Community Reinvestment Act, 1977 I believe? It was enacted by Congress requiring lenders to make funds available to low and moderate income families, even if they were not credit worthy by financial institutions standards. It was revised in 1995 to encourage urban development. Google the act read it through then decide who's responsible for this mess we are now in.
My opinion, it's a combination of everything, the act that mandated funds are made available to those who couldn't afford mortgages, the lenders who approved more than borrowers could handle financially and the people who accepted the loans that were well beyond their means. | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/26/2008 9:29:10 PM | Sure Ms. rose, but there is a little problem.. Uhh.. even with all those mortgages that people could not pay.... even with all those loans that the banks or financial institutions gave out... even with the increase in prices.. well.. math does not add up!! Most people still makes the same (inancially speaking) as of probably 5 year ago.. But they still got the loan to buy a house.. The house was OVERPRICED to begin with.. but people still bought it because that is part of the "american dream". Once people dicovered that they could buy the same house for about half of what they paid first JUST ACROSS TE STREET FROM WHERE THEY WERE LIVING AT THE TIME.. THEY TOOK THE DEAL.. !! Meanwhile the PAY rates for the PEOPLE that built those HOUSES, WAS THE SAME..!! and the banks RECOVERED THOSE HOUSES..!!.. so... where is the rest of the money..??  | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/26/2008 10:20:26 PM | This goes back to personal responsibility, they did not have to accept the loan for the amount they were approved. Some time with a calculator, the old fashioned kind, and mortgage calculator can go a long way in helping a person figure out what they can afford after adding in contingencies (loss of income, saving on hand to hold over until new job, ect). Demand went up and so did pricing along with it. It's up to the borrower to shop around and negotiate prices.
What exactly is the 'American Dream'? Big houses in a pricey area? The latest and greatest gadget available? The buy now pay later plan (credit cards)? Financial independence? How about being able to live your life the way you choose? Taking personal responsibility for your actions? Holding elected officials responsible for theirs? All of the above? None of the above? Each person has a different interpretation of the American Dream.
Foreclosed homes here in Michigan (and many other places as the economy sinks) are prime targets for vandals and thieves. Homes are stripped of there copper (plumbing, wiring) and whatever other metal that can bring a decent price on the market. Banks have the choice of fixing them up or selling as is if they have not been condemned and ordered torn down. Sometimes the homeowner themselves destroy the house when it's foreclosed. | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/26/2008 11:20:08 PM | " This goes back to personal responsibility, they did not have to accept the loan for the amount they were approved. "
I can see the headlines .... average Americans conned by Real Estate Agents and Mortgage Companies enticing them into the great American Dream of Home Ownership.
Expectations of the average American's ability to figure out why their thinking of what they can afford isn't matching against what the agents and lenders say they can do. Shame on them. They trusted the industry experts in highly credible companies.
Yeppers... Agents are blameless. Lenders are blameless. Blame the people they conned. After all, they are the product of our educational system. | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/27/2008 5:05:36 AM | The Great Collapse of 2008 trades on the core values of the twentieth century and helps illustrate the question: what is the legitimate role of the state.... To protect you from your own greed and stupidity --- which it in many ways instantiates...?
This all works quite differently at the bottom level of the socio-economic scale than at the top. Some might say it doesn't work at all at the top.... For sure it more difficult to differentiate at the top because the people at the top are the government-- they have the power and can limit or increase its capacity to act. As we see with the speed and $$$ value related to the bail out plan.
This is all very fundamental stuff to the nature of governance and social responsibility... there has been an accelerating trend for the last century (really the last millennium) to make how we live the primary responsibility of the government and not the individual.
This sort of failure will certainly accelerate that trend. | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/27/2008 5:41:50 AM |
Yeppers... Agents are blameless. Lenders are blameless. Blame the people they conned. After all, they are the product of our educational system.
If you read my first post, you’d see I had the blame spread between the government who passed legislation to relax borrowing standards, the lenders who approved more than the borrower could handle and the borrower themselves for not making sure they’d be able to make the payment. I was answering angelsands response to my original post. I should have quoted her to make that clear. Now, the loan types offered can be placed squarely on the lenders. But again, the borrower does have to take some responsibility for getting all the facts on those types of loans.
Your right about our education system, it’s downright scary but that’s a whole other thread.
This is all very fundamental stuff to the nature of governance and social responsibility... there has been an accelerating trend for the last century (really the last millennium) to make how we live the primary responsibility of the government and not the individual.
I can see it heading that way to and it scares me. Everything the government sticks their hands in has turned out to be a mess. | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/27/2008 5:47:59 AM | I had to meet with my economic advisor for my districts matching retirement fund. I lost money this year. That is sad. Where is this going to go? | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/27/2008 9:25:06 AM | You see, with the subprime mortgages at the time they received the loan the consumer felt they could swing the price of a home. That's not to dismiss the personal responsibility in considering the future, but Average Joe and Jane don't understand all the fine print and they have the flaw of trust for another to not lead them astray.
A lot of people know they are overextending their credit, but there are a lot of people suffering that just misplaced trust while not understanding the complexities. For them I put more blame on those who did understand the complexities, knew the consumer was vulnerable and at risk, but they smiled with the knowledge as they were making that instant buck at that moment. | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/27/2008 7:13:37 PM |
this paves the way for the Amero...Then roll the big 4 into one currency.stay tuned the best is yet to come. I believe this statement is correct the wall street /credit crunch was an intentional act because It's too big to failbut the fact is it failed because it was too big ,ya got to ask if it was too big to fail why did it fail?and when it does fail the Amero and the NAU because U.S. is too big to fail, so bail it out with Canada and Mexico?and then world currency.No exchange rate from countries different monies.No trade tarriffs,no foreign goods only world goods.The ultra rich and the peasants.Kings and serfs | |
|
| |
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/28/2008 12:13:13 PM | Interesting Video.
This Economic Crisis is very confusing. Who's right? Who's wrong? Who's to blame?
Maybe this Video may educate you, as it educated me on WHAT exactly goes on in Washington DC regarding Fannie and Freddie.
I was watching C-Span (of all places) and many Congress members were suggesting that people watch it. It also just came up on Youtube.
Copy and Paste it to your web browser.
http://beltwayblips.com/video/burning_down_the_house_what_caused_our_economic_crisis/ | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/28/2008 12:32:01 PM |
This Economic Crisis is very confusing. Who's right? Who's wrong? Who's to blame?
That video shows what I had brought up previously about CRA. There is another interesting article from Investors Business Daily that brought this up too. John McCain took a (small) hit in that one with his actions now regarding this mess. It was sent to me in an email, so if you want to read it...google it:
Congress Tries To Fix What It Broke By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 4:20 PM PT | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/28/2008 1:38:46 PM | I just want to add my two cents about this concern about the Amero.
The Euro works because you have a lot of governments that have signed on; there is no overwhelmingly dominant nation in the mix; the terms that were agreed on were worked out by all parties.
An Amero would be controlled by the US - the American economy dwarfs all the other nations that you seem to fear joining put together. As a Canadian, I can say there's no way we would surrender soveriegnty to that extent. Interest rates would be set in your country; financial policy would be set in your country; Canada would be forced to adopt American tax rates, so our social policies would be dictated from your country.
Trust me, nobody wants an Amero. Especially since it would mean tying our economy to one that is mired in spiralling deficits. | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/28/2008 8:34:43 PM |
Surely, you don't really think that you can blame the deficit on one party, do you?
Exactly .. seems to me they're both selling out the people and have been for quite some time. And what a lovely bunch of ass kissers we have in congress. They have no power, apparently, or could it be they just dont give darn since they're on the payroll? Is the big picture obvious to the majority of citizens yet? I doubt it .. not until they feel the pain. | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/29/2008 10:03:39 AM | Thank You Ms. blend.. Yes, those loan companies grew LARGE... VERY LARGE.. due in part to the fact that OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS decided to take the bribes from the LOBBYST that work for those companies.. and consecuently and EFICIENTLY ELIMINATING THE COMPETENCY .. thus.. creating a MONOPOLY that could DICTATE EVERYTHING....!! From how much a person could get in loans to how much interest they should pay..!! Let the truth be told for ONCE..  | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/29/2008 10:41:13 AM |
Does anyone remember the Community Reinvestment Act, 1977 I believe? It was enacted by Congress requiring lenders to make funds available to low and moderate income families, even if they were not credit worthy by financial institutions standards. It was revised in 1995 to encourage urban development. Google the act read it through then decide who's responsible for this mess we are now in.
My opinion, it's a combination of everything, the act that mandated funds are made available to those who couldn't afford mortgages, the lenders who approved more than borrowers could handle financially and the people who accepted the loans that were well beyond their means.
Follow the money. Who benefited from this?
Do banks benefit from writing bad loans? Nope. Yes, they may wind up owning a piece of property, but rarely will they be able to sell it for what they loaned against it. Therefore, no bank that wishes to remain in business knowingly writes a bad loan, unless forced to do so, as CRA did in many instances.
Do loan officers and mortgage brokers benefit from writing bad loans? In the short term, perhaps some of them do, as some of them are paid on a commission basis. In the long run, many of them are out of jobs.
It's probably pretty clear that the borrower doesn't benefit from being granted a bad loan in the long run. The probably put at least some money into their purchase, which is lost. For many, their dream of home ownership is lost as well, at least temporarily.
In my opinion, Congress benefited most from this. They got to be big heroes by enduring that "affordable housing" was available to all. They were so in love with this concept that they refused to see the evidence of malfeasance and mismanagement. This situation could have been eliminated or reduced, had efforts to reform Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae three to four years ago been allowed to succeed.
Too bad CRA wasn't named Community Reinvestment Assistance Program. Had it been so named, it would have had an appropriate acronym.  | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/29/2008 10:53:09 AM | I'll ignore the attempt to blame this on Carter (seems odd that an act passed in 1977, which clearly worked for decades is now the whipping boy), and take your advice to follow the money.
There has been a focused effort to remove the safeguards enacted by FDR, which has lead to the stripping of regulations. So by the last few years banks no longer had to care about the mortgages they issued. They weren't planning on holding them. They would issue mortgages, bundle them as investment vehicles, then sell them. Freeing up more capital to do it again - making a profit on each step.
While some congressmen undoubtedly were bought (and look at who controlled the committees when these regulations were removed), the money ended up as bonuses in the pockets of bankers and brokers. | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/29/2008 10:59:50 AM | In some ways, You are very right Mr. tallskier.. But I suggest You think about it this way. Every year here in the U.S., there is a wholesale named the "thanksgiving day AFTER sale". In truth, such sale NEVER takes place because the prices has been fixed 3 weeks to 2 months PRIOR the sale. And whatever they DO ACTUALLY post for a cheap sale is either the surplus they got left from previous "sales", which technically is considered "trash"... LITERALLY!! .. or some actual sale prices that are cosidered "hooks".. This is the same situation is happening now, with the only difference that in the beginning it did work..!!! But after time they discovered it was not so easy as they thought that would be. You are right, our politicians SHOULD KNOW BETTER ..!! But what do they care..?? NOTHING..!! But also the loan companies have a LOT of BLAME in this mess.. In other words.. THEY TRIED TO CHEW MORE THAT THEY COULD SWALLOW...!! They got greedy.. So, YES , A GREAT PART OF THIS IS THEIR OWN FAULT. The problem is that WE have to pay the price.. ALL OF US..!!
 | |
|
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown Posted: 9/29/2008 11:44:40 AM |
I'll ignore the attempt to blame this on Carter (seems odd that an act passed in 1977, which clearly worked for decades is now the whipping boy), and take your advice to follow the money.
I have no idea why you would think I was trying to blame this on Carter. I was not aware that he was ever in Congress! Furthermore, CRA has not been static - it's been modified by Congress several times.
So by the last few years banks no longer had to care about the mortgages they issued. They weren't planning on holding them. They would issue mortgages, bundle them as investment vehicles, then sell them. Freeing up more capital to do it again - making a profit on each step.
Or, sell them to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, who then turn them into investment vehicles.
While some congressmen undoubtedly were bought (and look at who controlled the committees when these regulations were removed), the money ended up as bonuses in the pockets of bankers and brokers.
If only it was so simple. We're talking about a LOT more money than has been paid out in bonuses. | |
|