| | Full Scale Financial MeltdownPage 7 of 10 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) | you're kidding right?
do tell, reread msg 131
geez, this is not excess?
There were over 100 people attending the event. Now, could you please answer my question? All you have done is ASK one.
To be quite clear about it, what is "greedy" about a company rewarding independent sales agents (not employees). You might want to go look up the word "greedy". | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/9/2008 12:59:35 PM |
WAKE UP AMERICA AND SMELL THE COFFEE....YOUR LIFESTYLE IS ABOUT TO GO DOWN THE TUBES IF YOU VOTE FOR THE WRONG MAN....
Close, musicianfriend… wrong MEN. Obama, McCain, Biden, and EVERY Member of Congress who voted “aye” on the bailout bill sold out America. Smell that coffee and vote every one of these people out of office! None of them deserve your vote – to vote for any of them is to show confidence that you support what they did. We must stop them now, especially as Pelosi wants to hand-out even more bailout money!!!! 
(For the record, for a company to spend $4500 per attendee of a sales junket may not be excessive, but it is very high. The concept of “greedy” simply doesn’t apply here. It’s not the attendees fault, it’s management’s fault. For them to do this now is incredibly arrogant and/or insensitive… okay… it’s stupid too!) | |
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edisto
| | Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 153 | |
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/9/2008 1:40:30 PM |
There were over 100 people attending the event. Now, could you please answer my question? All you have done is ASK one.
To be quite clear about it, what is "greedy" about a company rewarding independent sales agents (not employees). You might want to go look up the word "greedy".
each of the 100 attendees received $4420 in "stuff" or spas or whatever
okay-
greed the definition
"a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed"
I would say their "reward" fits this definition - as in, more of something than is needed
a company that asked for ANOTHER bailout, 38 billion today after 85 billion a couple of days ago, "rewards" it's "independent sales agents (not employees) like this?
imagine how they "reward" their employees!
oh yeah, we already know...
former AIG exec Joseph J. Cassano, continues to receive $1 million a month from the company, on top of the $280 million he received in the last eight years
the taxpayer is being asked to bailout this company for a 2nd time and we find out that these agents received these kinds of perks!
ah, but I do appreciate your view that this isn't excessive on their part
with your, "let them eat cake" attitude I can kinda see the mindset of AIG~ | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/9/2008 1:46:19 PM |
WAKE UP AMERICA AND SMELL THE COFFEE....YOUR LIFESTYLE IS ABOUT TO GO DOWN THE TUBES IF YOU VOTE FOR THE WRONG MAN....
I actually think that no man is going to stop it from happening. I think we are in a "darkest before the dawn" inevitablity here. A situation where to rebuild something it has to be torn down and cleared to make way for the new.
When the question was posed at the debate of why this generation doesn't make sacrifice as did the great generation where sacrifice was what they did, it's because they had to struggle to survive. For us to learn how to sacrifice, we likely have to struggle to survive too.
Maybe this time we can put a guy like Ron Paul in charge who has long ago told us what was going to happen as he is a student of the economists that both predicted and explained the collapse of economies in the early 20th century including our first Great Depression. They weren't prophets nor had 20/20 hindsight. They knew because of their knowledge. And RP knew decades ago that we would be where we are today because we repeated those economic policies of the past that have never succeeded and always failed. | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/9/2008 1:54:04 PM | I agree with much of what you say IT but RP was wrong too. John Edwards spoke of this comming too as did many students of history you cannot have such disparity of wealth and sustain a society. Jefferson and Hamilton argued about this too the simple fact is that Democracy was meant to be a check and balance against Commerce/Capitalism. We lost and forgot about that during the McCarthy period and Regan and his devout followers expanded on that mistake beliving the free market could answer all. It cannot and would not there is too much greed inherent in the system and it cannot stand without oversight.
People like Tallskier need to learn the basic civil lesson that greed is not good and must be returned back to the system. This was taught to the Robber Barons, this was taught to the Lords of England, The nobility of France etc. Wealth for wealth's sake disrupts itself and the society that permits it. | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/9/2008 5:38:31 PM | | I don't know FK... I read some RP writings from the 70s that called this mess back then. I am sure you know something of which I am not aware and I am interested in hearing what that is if you will. (I tried to phrase that to make sure it came across with the sincere respect in which it was intended but it always sounded snotty so I added this little ditty to make sure). | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 1:14:40 AM | No wonder Harper called an election so early,
[http://www.financialpost.com/news/story.html?id=866377
Fed trolls Canada to rescue U.S. banks
Karen Mazurkewich and Eoin Callan, Financial Post Published: Tuesday, October 07, 2008
In a desperate bid to help U.S. banks recapitalize, Washington is dropping its inhibitions and reaching out to Canadian financial institutions to gauge their willingness to participate in rescue operations.
The Federal Reserve has activated a back channel that puts the central bank in direct contact with chief executives at Canada's largest banks and insurers, according to a person familiar with the dialogue.
They are approaching "banks with major assets in the U.S. like [Toronto-Dominion Bank] and Royal [Bank of Canada], because when they have a bailout situation they want everyone who is a potential buyer to look at it," the source said.
The ongoing conversations between the U.S. central bank and Canadian executives reflects the challenge facing Washington as it seeks to address both short-term liquidity and permanent capital needs of financial institutions crippled by more than $500-billion in losses and limited access to financing.
The communications have included phone calls from Fed officials pitching potential sales of assets of U.S. financial companies and at least one intensive discussion of a major rescue operation, according to people familiar with the contacts.
The Fed has been steadily widening the circle of foreign institutions it is working with as the banking crisis has deepened, according to a former Fed official now on Wall Street.
The outreach to Canadian companies signals a more permissive environment in which U.S. authorities would look very favourably on an intervention by a Toronto-based institution.
It comes as Washington deploys greater reserves than initially anticipated to restore liquidity, while still facing an uphill battle to help banks recapitalize at a point in the crisis when projected losses of up to $1-trillion still ahead for the global banking system.
The engagement of Canadian institutions follows U.S. federal assent for the acquisition of assets in bankrupt Lehman Brothers by the U.K.'s Barclays, in a deal that followed intensive discussions with the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.
That deal was smoothed by good relations between the London and Washington and a lower level of resistance to a deal with the U.K. on Capitol Hill, where political disquiet over foreign interventions has helped keep some buyers at bay.
"Canada is not China," said a former Fed official.
A lobbyist for a Canadian bank said the political climate in Washington had changed markedly since the passage of a $700-billion bailout and that this country is now seen as a potential source of support.
Executives and advisors in the Canadian financial services industry indicated they still saw live opportunities for their sector to help drive consolidation and recapitalization in the U.S., despite limited flexibility at a time when sinking markets were lowering all boats.
"I don't think Canadian banks want to take a lot of balance sheet risk but I don't think they are going to have to," the source said, adding that while the target banks have many subprime mortgages, the Federal Reserve will backstop these high-risk liabilities.
"We could end up in a funny situation two years from now saying this was a once in a generational opportunity for Canadian banks."
U.S. regional banks remain in deep distress and an acquisition of this scale is seen as possible in the coming months, as Canadian banks cautiously explore possible buys and after TD Bank Financial Group put its name forward during an auction of Washington Mutual.
A broad sell-off in the U.S. insurance sector has also cut into the valuations and capital positions of U.S. insurers seen as possible matches for Sun Life and Manulife, the Canadian life insurers.
Sun is actively weighing the likelihood of an intervention in the U.S., according to one person in the industry.
A foreign bank executive who participated in a recent round of rescue talks with the Fed said U.S. authorities were also keeping national regulators informed of high-stakes negotiations.
It was not clear how deeply involved Canadian authorities were in the discussions.
The Bank of Canada declined to comment.”
In its June 2008 report, Compete to Win, the federal government’s Competition Review Panel recommended scrapping the ban on bank mergers and "harmonizing its expectations with those of the U.S.][/]
Bliss | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 5:14:34 AM | Folks, history also indicates that the masses must be so oppressed and their situation must be so inequitable before they revolt. Cases in point might be the French Revolution of 1789 or the Russian Revolution in 1917.
See, I’m of the belief that we don’t have a “full scale” financial meltdown… yet! The US still has the greatest Gross Domestic Product of any nation, the greatest wealth of any nation, and just about the highest per capita personal income (source = US Department of Commerce, Bureau of Economic Analysis). This might have the effect of too many US citizens thinking that they’re doing “okay”. But they might be sadly mistaken.
According to researchers at the University of California, “as of 2001, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 33.4% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 51%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 84%, leaving only 16% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers)”. The complete article can be found at whorulesamerica.net
This research also includes a very interesting chart – that beginning in the late 80’s (surprise, surprise) that the disparity between the capital income earned by top 1% and bottom 80% has dramatically increased. Proof that the rich have gotten richer, the poor, poorer. But obviously, insufficient mass to foment insurrection. Dunno if that’s a good thing or bad.
For example, let’s consider the demographics of POF members – and maybe my view is narrow, but it seems to me that whereas the professions of men are all over the board, the majority of women are either nurses or teachers. These women’s professions require an education and probably provide an average adjusted income around the national average, which the NY Times reported as $58,029 for 2006.
My point being, if the average fishie annually earns about $60K – or even $50K – I would guess that they are not ready to overthrow the government. Even when their long-term investments have decreased by 40-something percent over the last 18 months due the financial turmoil! (Maybe hyperbole… I don’t have the exact number, but have read that most 401k plans have lost over 20% of their 2006 value because of being heavy in the stock market.)
I am also of the belief that the super-wealthy and those who run our government are well aware of just how much they can ram down our throats before we rebel. I mean if we can handle an extra $800 Billion, what’s even another $800 Billion? Why not an even Trillion?!?  As long as we have 50% of the wealth in this country, we’ll stay fat, dumb, and happy. Maybe even with 40%? 30%?? And in what timeframe? C’mon, we’re learning to live with $3/gallon gasoline… and even be happy and think, “Wow! I’m glad it’s no longer $4!” The petroleum industry accomplished that feat in less than 6 months! 
At what point do you believe that we’ll revolt against the über-class? I’d be curious if someone knew the percentage before the French and/or Russians came to that conclusion. Just curious. | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 5:26:28 AM | The differance between the Monarchy of France in 18th century and 21st America is oppressed masses will lute the bank instead of use the gilloutine on the elite. The peasasnts in France could not vote out Louis IX, but Americans can vote out congress Nov 4th. The history of France will give clue a where America heading if they dont watch out . Just be calm the meltdown is almost over and the mass can start to clean up the party. Some Ceos will be given Buddy to make with when this is all over and Lehman Brothers traders did break SEC laws and AIG insurance thing becomes more unraveled the FBI will be pretty busy busting people involed. Will get thru this America been there before the hangover wont last forever.  | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 6:37:25 AM | For what its worth, this is my opinion.
I feel someone should look into this idea, if its viable. I think the taxpayers should bond together and file a class action suit against Franklin Rains and the guys at Fanny Mae that caused this...and by the way Rains, Johnson, etc. etc. are former Fanny Mae executives and are Obama supporters. | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 7:12:22 AM | Do you really believe Fanny Mae caused all this?
A guy in Compton California Walks away and ICELAND goes Bankrupt............
Ten years ago Buffet described Derivatives as WMD....
Wall Street sold Daisy Chain investments, and speculation. Thanks to the working people of the USA willingly running up Real Estate Values, and Stock market prices.
Remember all those 401 retirements ...NOT a insured CD or safe investment.
The US has the most productive workforce in the world.
By May there will be a flood of CASH to be loaned. What will happen then? | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 9:58:04 AM | former AIG exec Joseph J. Cassano, continues to receive $1 million a month from the company, on top of the $280 million he received in the last eight years
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has directed nearly $100,000 from her political action committee to her husband’s real estate and investment firm over the past decade, a practice of paying a spouse with political donations that she supported banning last year.
Financial Leasing Services Inc. (FLS), owned by Paul F. Pelosi, has received $99,000 in rent, utilities and accounting fees from the speaker’s “PAC to the Future” over the PAC’s nine-year history.
The payments have quadrupled since Mr. Pelosi took over as treasurer of his wife’s committee in 2007, Federal Election Commission records show. FLS is on track to take in $48,000 in payments this year alone - eight times as much as it received annually from 2000 to 2005, when the committee was run by another treasurer.
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 10:36:57 AM |
greed the definition
"a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed"
So by some 'logic" (unidentifiable from here) it is "greedy" for AIG to reward the people who sold the most of their insurance products. MMMmmmmkay. | |
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edisto
| | Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 164 | |
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 1:57:20 PM | ^^^^^^
good god !
it's not wrong to reward....it's the bloody-
EXCESS involved
obviously you don't get it and probably NEVER will...................!!! | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 4:47:43 PM | | Like 17th century Europe where we expect are wealthy CEOs and Excutives to beave with belnevolance towards the peons. The truth some CEOs were 17th Nobles like Louis IX had in France because both knew how to steal money. The difference is 21st century CEOs wont be burned at the stake or other horrific death for thier crimes. Still, the hangover is here buy stocks and just wait it out Barrack got this election in the bag just cash out till the GOP can screw its head on right | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 5:14:56 PM | Such a pity… I’d love to see every Member of Congress who voted for the bailout bill to be lined-up along Pennsylvania Avenue, from the Capitol to the White House… IN STOCKADES!!!! And in keeping with those good ol’ 17th Century traditions, have the masses pummel them with refuse!! 
(And, fear not, I would have a much worse fate for those robber-baron CEOs and Executives!) | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 5:22:05 PM |
it's not wrong to reward....it's the bloody-
EXCESS involved
You don't get it....We don't get it....... A MILLION is not what it used to be.
Many in this county didn't get it, and NEVER will
Russia has shut down its stock exchange for 10 days.......
There are many more foreclosures coming in the next 18 months. | |
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edisto
| | Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 168 | |
| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 5:22:08 PM |
And in keeping with those good ol’ 17th Century traditions, have the masses pummel them with refuse!!
received my quarterly statement today
I live near a few farms, I could get some fantastic "refuse"
let's do it~ | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 5:26:10 PM | Did anyone notice the timing?
The first baby boomers began retiring now.
Home equity disappears and the stock market contracts 50 %.........
I wonder who found all those lost dollars?
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 5:44:34 PM | All we want now is the mother of all runs on banks and the plan will be complete.
Well, almost. To put the icing on the cake the world will try offload their dollars leading to hyper inflation.
Mr Bush will have no option but to declare martial law to avert civil unrest....maybe even cancelling the election.
This is just speculation but I've done a little research and all things point to the fall in the market being orchestrated.....afterall, these mega rich economic gurus and bankers can't all be so stupid as to give into fear and risk their own livelihoods can they?
The question is, who benefits from a falling market?
Find the answer to this and you'll find the conductor of the current economic woes. | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 8:20:12 PM | America, start your engines!
On your garden tillers, that is.... [Now where is Crash's anarchy garden thread when you need it?]
And do you have a big enough mattress for all that play money? It might buy you a little time.
For those who are gritty and street-wise, hit the closest pawn shops and buy up some weaponry. You're going to need them if you want to keep what little you own, along with your food source. Hope you live close to a body of water so you can fish. Shame that Sarah Palin won't be in office so she can give us all hunting lessons.
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/10/2008 9:33:55 PM | .
Well, almost. To put the icing on the cake the world will try offload their dollars leading to hyper inflation.
It is interesting how strong the Dollar is........ | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/11/2008 10:16:40 AM |
It is interesting how strong the Dollar is........
Find the answer to this and you'll find the conductor of the current economic woes.  | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/11/2008 11:42:37 AM | I thought the 1% of mortgages in past due status caused Iceland to BK, Russia to close its stock exchange for 10 days, England to nationalize its banks...... more.
Maybe the Conductor found those lost Trillions?  | |
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| Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted: 10/11/2008 1:00:17 PM | "I am also of the belief that the super-wealthy and those who run our government are well aware of just how much they can ram down our throats before we rebel. I mean if we can handle an extra $800 Billion, what’s even another $800 Billion? Why not an even Trillion?!?"
I've been watching for the divide to be enough ... I suspect so long as people have jobs and at least some income that they won't revolt. I really am beginning to wonder if the addiction to greed is getting so bad for the gilded age post 2K that it might end up with them being blinded by greed so that they forget to give the masses just enough to keep them from revolting.
The other part to watch for are for the coastal residents being financially forced out of the blue states. Watch for red states turning blue as the coasties have to go live where affordable housing exists. Now, that should be interesting.
How much disparity will the 80% be willing to tolerate? How will the central states handle the influx of liberals? Should be an interesting study of human nature.
Conna | |
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