| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 12:01:59 PM | Why do so many people not realize that a democratic system fails if you choose not to participate in it? This isn't a question about different view points, and the choices within the system, but has to do with the nature of the system itself. I don't care if you vote red, blue, green, turqoise,orange, or something else, but the system requires that you do vote. By choosing not to vote people are corroding the system. The only time you as an individual have the greatest voice in a democratic system is when you vote.
What would people think of a system in which only half of the number of people where allowed to vote? There would be outrage, but by not voting you have in effect created that system. Why shouldn't the government just take away the right of everyone who didn't vote? They have pretty much stated that they don't want to vote anyways.
Notice through this whole little rant I specifically do not point to any particular political leanings or choices. They are irrelevant to the system. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 1:01:52 PM | when there is no one or party to vote for....how does one decide....as for corroding the system, where does it state that you have to vote, is that not a type of dictatorship then...when the govt is telling us what we have to do..... | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 1:04:19 PM | ...They are irrelevant to the system....
If they were irrelevant to the system, we would not have to vote for one or the other!! It is the fact that there are choices, that is what helps to make it the democracy, not if they are red, blue, green, turqoise,orange, or something else, but rather is the thinking and ideaology that closest suits your individuality and, are there enough others with the same philosophy as yours to empower that choice to one individual to convey and enact your wishes.
....is that not a type of dictatorship then...when the govt is telling us what we have to do...
If you don't vote, you may have created just that, a dictatorship!! Even tho a party may not propose the ideal situation for something near and dear to your philosophy, if you do not vote, you give up the rights that our forefathers fought so hard to obtain for us. Failure to communicate through voting is far worse than voting for the wrong party, at least then you can b*tch about the way they are messing things up, no voting should silence you on the b*tching side, you gave up the right to vote, so you gave up the right to b*tch!!
I have had the mandate to vote since 1965, I have yet to miss a municipal, provincial or federal oppourtunity to express my desires by voting for the choice that best suited my inclinations as to how this country should be empowered by the populace and as long as I have the power to get out and vote I will always be a % of the people that turned out!! | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 1:36:43 PM | ~Duffster~
I should have rephrased that. By irrelevant I am specifically refering to the fact that it doesn't matter what a parties ideology is. Not that it is irrelevant if they are there. Of course for a democracy to work you need to have a selection of parties. My point had to do more with the democratic system itself and not the particular choices with in it. I think some governments claim democracy give the people the right to vote, but there is only one choice .... thats obviously not democracy.
as for corroding the system, where does it state that you have to vote, is that not a type of dictatorship then...when the govt is telling us what we have to do.....
It doesn't state it anywhere. Its an integral part of the system. Let me give you an example: Lets say I where to offer you and 5 of your friends 3 choices for a single dessert, you each get to pick one and the majority decides which dessert you will all get. What would happen if you didn't pick one? Well then you would just have to live with whatever your friends pick. What if only 2 picked, same thing. What if no one picks? Well then your either stuck with nothing, or have to eat whatever I give you. Simplest way to avoid this..... pick one! What if you don't like any? Well pick the one that you could live with, because you may be stuck with one you don't like, but you certainly can't complain about it!
Besides you have it backwards, its not the gov't telling you what to do, its you telling the government what it should do by picking who should be representing you. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 2:29:09 PM | This is really the best thread we've had on here in ages and ages!
I've been discussing this with a friend of mine and his statement on not voting is perhaps a bit more eloquent than mine have been.
"Not voting isn't an effective way to voice your concerns about the problems in our political landscape. It's not registering discontent, so much as it's telling our leaders that a sizable number of Canadians just don't give a %^&% what they do, and that's dangerous. It tells them that they've got a lot of leeway to do whatever they want, which is often something that we don't want.
By not voting, by not educating yourself enough to vote appropriately or by not showing up at a poll long enough to spoil a vote and "register" as someone who's quite capable of directing their politicians, but who's underwhelmed with their choices, you're not only abdicating your responsibilities as a Canadian citizen, you're making it harder for the rest of us who would try to steer this country in the right direction.
Your absence registers only as apathy. I respectfully (really!) suggest that you're kidding yourselves if you believe otherwise. Better that we frighten out politicos a little by turning out in force. The only reason we see so many scandals in Canadian politics is because the politicians know we don't care." | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 4:31:54 PM |
when there is no one or party to vote for....how does one decide....as for corroding the system, where does it state that you have to vote, is that not a type of dictatorship then...when the govt is telling us what we have to do.
Why does it have to be legislated for it to be the right thing to do? Are you really saying that unless you are compelled legally you can't be bothered? That is exactly how democracy will be eroded. By people who can't be bothered to vote. With the current parties there are limited choices, granted, but they are choices. It beats the hell out of a dictatorship, where you don't get to vote. If you're going to use terms like that please don't **stardize them to match your whims. A dictatorship is where democracies head when people give up on them and don't take their responsibilities as a citizen seriously.
We need civics classes in school. At least then young people would have a chance at understanding the democratic process and their part in it.
Alluria, I suggested earlier that the apathetic take part rather than opt out - it didn't register on the 'involvement' scale... sigh. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 5:10:22 PM | Well the write up below is from CTV
Which reflects on the subject matter of this thread.
As you can see there is fewer people excercising their right to vote.
Hmm which Party would be the winner if 100% of the people or close to 100% actually voted ??? Makes one wonder about the traits of the non voter as to whether they would vote more for any particular party rather than another if they voted ?
Hmmm which party would be controlling the government ???
If more people voted ,Do you think we would have fewer elections as more elections take place when minority governments exist Hmmm It would save tax dollars.
Almost 1 out of 2 did not vote here in Alberta! Alberta a 52.9 % turnout
An estimated 59.1 per cent of Canadians cast votes in Tuesday's general election — a figure that appears to be a record low in the history of Confederation.
Voter turnout across Canada
Newfoundland and Labrador 48.1%
New Brunswick 62.8%
Nova Scotia 60.7%
P.E.I. 69.5%
Quebec 61.1%
Ontario 59.1%
Manitoba 56.8%
Saskatchewan 59.4%
Alberta 52.9%
British Columbia 61.0%
Northwest Territories 48.6%
Yukon 63.7%
Nunavut 49.4%
A total of 13,832,972 votes were cast nationally of the 23,401,064 registered electors, Elections Canada figures showed as of 9 a.m. ET Wednesday.
The highest voter turnout appeared to be in P.E.I., where 69.5 per cent of registered voters cast ballots.
The lowest turnout appeared to be in Newfoundland and Labrador, where just 48.1 of registered voters took part.
All the figures were based on reports from 69,601 of 69,630 polls across the country. The total number of registered electors did not, however, include anyone who only registered on election day itself.
After the ballots were counted, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his Conservatives won a second consecutive minority government.
The turnout figure of 59.1 per cent was slightly below the previous lowest turnout figure of 60.9 per cent. That happened when Paul Martin's Liberals won a minority government in 2004. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 5:35:10 PM |
Alberta a 52.9 % turnout
That's better than the 41% that turned out for the provincial election. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 5:52:56 PM | Yes but both numbers are truly a sad state of affairs.
But on the provincial election most people blamed it on not knowing there was an election to begin with. As it was last minute 
Followed by weeks and months of Premier Who ??? What's his name again???
Oh you mean Obama got in .Oh it wasn't him ? Well I thought it was just him and Clinton running. Well at least an Albertan got in .
Yes the Provincial Election will be one to remember as well or not.
Possibly it is time to tune in rather than tune out . Maybe issues and concerns would change if more turned out or spoke up or participated or became aware . Before rather than after the fact. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 7:20:38 PM | Man o man, it just never ends
http://www.mytelus.com/ncp_news/article.en.do?pn=canada&articleID=3016318
In a nutshell, there are some Liberals who are willing to help Harper to try to turn the Canadian economy around, Justin Trudeau and Stephan Dion (of all people) being 2 of them. "Enough of the bickering and arguing...let's be more civil so we can get Canada out of this economic mess" was the main message. Hurray for Trudeau and Dion...bout time someone acted like they want what's best for Canadians, even in defeat of a federal election. Even Jack Layton, in his speech last night, told everyone he was willing to cooperate with Harper to get Canada back on track economically.
But Bob Rae, on the other hand, says Harper better look towards helping the Libs get what they want or it WILL BE DIFFICULT in the House of Commons. Way to go Rae...PROUD OF YA!!!
Methinks Trudeau and Dion might make better Conservatives than Liberals. Respect to you, boys. At least you're thinking of Canada. Bob Rae can go straight to  | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 8:33:18 PM | | Maybe if they offered a 20$ bonus for every person who comes out to vote? You make sure your name is on the voters registry and by making sure you are on the list, you qualify yourself for the bonus. You just show up, make sure a ballot gets into the box and it's all yours? | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 8:34:36 PM | | Interesting idea, but given the cost of this election to garner the Tories a few more seats, but no mandate, I think the public would take a dim view. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 9:09:10 PM | I've asked people why they didn't vote and the reasons have been allot different form person to person.
Some were making a statement that he was not happy with the parties/outcome.
Some said it didn't matter that they were all bad.
Some didn't care at all
Some said that it was better to let someone who knows more decide
Some just didn't feel like leaving their home
Some people seem to have this sense of powerlessness, that it makes no difference
One thing that I've noticed is that the poorer less well off people tend to not vote. While those who are more affluent do. Politicians appear to recognize this. As a result, less is done for the poor. From a political perspective, those that don't vote don't matter. You are there to help those that voted you in, you don't need to do anything for the non voting poor. It is a very clear message.
I am not well off but.....
I always vote. If needed, I will choose the lesser of 2 evils and if there is someone better, I will vote for him.
The message here is my vote counts and if there are enough people like me, they will have to care. When you stop voting, they stop caring. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 9:27:23 PM | | it is still an individual choice....and people will always have their opinions & when it comes to politics, some feel differently than others. Each individual has to choose & live with their decision. People will always be in opposition in this regard. And, people in Canada still have the freedom of choice....last I heard. To each their own. Everyone is welcome to their opinions. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 9:41:39 PM | | No one has disputed that it's an individual choice; what is being contended is that not voting is a poor choice. Restating ad nauseum that each person has a choice really does nothing to further the debate; it just seems hollow and trite. Be happy that there were people who were willing to fight and lose their lives so that you can exercise your choice to not vote and participate in the democratic process and live your life with passion and gusto. You're very fortunate to be in the position to behave that way. Let's hope it never gets to a point where the apathetic make a difference between having freedoms and liberties and not having them. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/15/2008 11:55:15 PM | When the PCs were elected the last time, opposition leaders seemed to revel in the fact that conservatives had a weak minority and they blocked any constructive initiatives. They used any opportunity to try discredit the government. They did not have any of Canadian interests at heart. When election time came, they tried to sell the ideology that they were only interested in the best for Canada when actions did not reflect this.
If the other parties had not take a position of "doing what ever it takes to get rid of the conservatives", I think their issues would have been considered more and their standings in the polls would have been better. What would you do if you were surrounded by such hostility?
It looks to me that Harper has also had a learning curve when he came to power. Some decisions have not been the best, but it is not always easy when someone starts a new job and for the most part, it has been a decent job.
I think Harper is far more experienced now as a leader and is becoming more effective all the time. At this time of economic uncertainty, we are very lucky to have someone who is as fiscally oriented and rational as Mr. Harper.
For those people who are concerned about the manufacturing sector and yet want to tax corporations higher... they are struggling already and another tax is another nail in the coffin.
Anyone who wants to help our manufacturing sector should buy stuff made in Canada and not China.
Maybe in order to compete, we need a system like Taiwan or China.
I would like to challenge others to fins some positive things to work on instead of only negative things to complain about. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/16/2008 1:18:13 AM | Well now that all is said and done .Another takes place on Nov 4
that can affect us more than any other election in the states has ever done.
Question is ;
Who will handle the mess already created better than the other ?
Obama/Biden or Mc Cain /Palin
Who really knows?
I still find it amazing how many in Canada think we are not or will not be affected by the U.S.economy . It is not just a U.S. situation but so many have blinders on .
It is Global and yes that includes Canada folks.
Reminds me of the old saying
There are people that make things happen
There are people that watch things happen
Then there are those that stand around looking lost saying
What the H**L Just Happened
No doom and gloom stories just factual.
It is time to be more aware or involved as to what happens around us today ;not tomorrow. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 10/16/2008 7:18:37 AM | On the radio this morning they said Dion is set to step down today. I wonder how true this is. They were also saying that the Libs believe that they will win next election.
OE: I proudly voted NDP. It seems more people in my riding did as the person in 2nd place(winner was obviously a Con) is an NDPer. Last election is was Lib. Maybe times are slowly changing...who knows....or maybe its just a pipe dream. | |
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| Who's following the Election?
Posted: 11/1/2008 3:59:16 PM |
a simple vote on two issues gay marriage and abortion, every Canadian is given two choices yay or nay, majority wins, write it into law .
In my view these are two of the best examples of the merits of representative government. They are the last issues that could be justly decided by a simple majority -- unless 100% of the voting public is homosexual and could also become pregnant. | |
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