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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 3:15:06 PM | Daisy,
Some men pursue by taunting a woman....usually doen't work at this stage in the game....just my 2 cents....
And I still think that: pursuit=courting=romance and better last a lifetime! And both need be involved....and I do get what you say ...if you're interested-both-then the dance begins
jmo,
Irish
Daisy=big smiles! | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 3:19:13 PM | Oh my good lord...what wisdom people offer in 10 pages of this forum..well...lets just say...LISTEN..an know the differance! If your an adult to post...take the good with the bad.S*** happens! | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 3:30:52 PM | blush....
Happy Irish Day!
Some men pursue by taunting a woman....usually doen't work at this stage in the game..
I should've known. Yes...I am not used to a man taunting me....and it raises my hackles.
I feel a man has control issues when he does this....and I don't respond very well to men who have control issues...I usually end up disappearing...MIA...AWOL...and it just pizzes him off even more....
I remember in grade six some little boy who apparently liked me (found out afterwards)....and he was an annoying little tease to me...I finally took a large text-book and dropped it onto his head...hard. He burst into tears and refused to talk to me for the rest of the year.
Now..on hindsight, I realize that I punctured his ego...and probably damaged him emotionally about women for the rest of his life!
Now I feel very bad..... | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 3:43:59 PM | should've known. Yes...I am not used to a man taunting me....
nobody is..it also comes in woman forms...it sucks to be a REAL WOMAN as MAN listen...closely...an DONT ASK FRIENDS ....worst mistake...they may be ur best friend..but not in ur relationship..opinions r theirs   | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 5:17:11 PM | It always amazes me when women of age report that every time they have initiated contact with a man he has lost interest so she concludes that initiating contact doesn't work for females in general.
What would be your sample size? Three times? Six times? Maybe a dozen?
Multiply that times, oh......400 and you probably have the average (of age) guys experience on being shut down when he initiates contact!
Can you not see that!!!!
Sure, you decided, " It ain't worth it. I ain't gonna do it anymore!"
Again, the average guy (as opposed to say, Tom Selleck) has hit that wall several times in his life.
Point being, you have had a small dose of what the average guy deals with his entire dating life. If a woman can grasp this concept and be proactive in her comprehension, I promise you she will be a treasure to behold.
The way I see it, this thread was an opportunity for women to get a glimpse inside the male mind. Instead, for some, it's turned into "why don't men understand that women want to be pursued."
IMO, "pursue" = someone (male) chasing someone (female) running away.
I ain't gonna do it! Unless, of course, we're chasing each other around the house. | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 5:31:19 PM |
It means he has to read the woman's signals.
After spending more than 25 years dating, the only ``signals'' to which I respond are those spoken in English and which get right to the point. There is nothing romantic about playing games. | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:05:20 PM | Hmmmm....abelian
I guess that is why you have spent 25 years dating......wow...
Maybe you need to read something on the basics of body language. It's not games.
Ask any FBI investigator or any policeman. Ask a lawyer. Ask a pyschoanalyst...ask a counsellor....it is real and a part of our make-up. Males and females are biologically wired to read the other's signals.
Any man who is successful, whether it's business...or dating...or relationships...always reads a woman's signals...ask any husband!
My man read me correctly from day 1. He delighted in telling me my thoughts about him right from first date....and I hated it...but he was bang on...that is how perceptive and people savvy he is...He developed those skills for his business.
Now? I love it....he is so attuned to me... | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:15:24 PM | GoneSailinBabe is totally correct.
If the woman takes the initiative, they think she is a desperate psycho.
Maybe they won't say so or show it, but in the back of their minds, at some point,
maybe not the first time it happens, they will get put off by it. | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:17:38 PM | The way I see it, this thread was an opportunity for women to get a glimpse inside the male mind. Instead, for some, it's turned into "why don't men understand that women want to be pursued."
Well, maybe we would like some men to get a glimpse into our mind, instead of telling us we are wrong to be/feel who we are, and we should adjust to please them? I have truly tried to understand the male mind...just isn't as easy as it sounds, and since I am one who thinks we are different and should be...I don't want to take on male behaviors or become a man ...just because some men ( and some women) think I should..and the few posters here don't speak for all men anyway...I can understand how men think, and still not adopt their thinking patterns can't I? Understanding isn't adoption...just like no man has to do what I like just because I like it...but, my preferences and desires carry no less weight than theirs...they are not right and I am wrong, or vice versa...it doesn't have to be an either or situation, but many men make it that way...and, certainly, if we don't agree, we wouldn't date anyway
As to the proactive thing...not the rejection that bothers me...I'm guessing I have been rejected as much, and in far more insulting ways than many men..it's the fact that it never works...never...reminds me of the oft repeated phrase on POF...the definition of insanity being doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same results...I haven't counted how often I have initiated contact in my life, and I doubt it's in the 100's because there aren't that many men that interest me enough to give it a try, but, it is a large enough sample to know it doesn't work for me..maybe it works for other women...but, I'd bet a large sum of money that most of those women have far more options and are farther up on the hotness scale than I am...
The best that has happened is I have gained a bunch of male friends...the worst is the insults and hurt I have had to endure for daring to think they might be interested...
And the truth is...I suspect that the kind of men I am attracted to...like being the initiator and making the choice...and aren't bothered by the possible rejection...
I know how I respond emotionally...and I feel no guilt or remorse because I am true to myself and my feelings...I have never said I wanted to be chased like men describe it anyway...I think that is their interpretation, and I think that has more to do with their issues, not mine...I have said I am attracted to men who act like they want to date you, be with you, etc...that make some kind of effort to show interest...and that make it known immediately...not go along because they have nothing better to do...
And I'm sure, if what I have said won't anger some enough..the next statement will...While men have had to bear the brunt of rejection in initiating for most of time immemorial....they seem to have survived...and just because women don't share that burden as often...doesn't mean we don't suffer in other ways..it isn't easy for most, regardless of gender, we all have our crosses to bear...some just bear them more graciously....
And I don't understand why anyone would think that other people should suffer or be punished because they have? Since when is it anyone's responsibility to make up for the your own personal hurts? | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:42:29 PM |
Well, maybe we would like some men to get a glimpse into our mind, ...
Did you read the title of the thread?
You want men to get a glimpse into women's mind, start a thread that addresses the issue!
Pftttt!
PS: You didn't answer the question. How many attempts did you make at initiating contact with men? And, I seriously doubt any woman that is admonishing men will answer the question.
While I'm at it. Another thing that amazes me is the people that finally find someone will offer all kinds of insights into how to find the right one. When months/years earlier they were just as dumbfounded as the rest of us singles. Suddenly they become an expert! Hell, I'm guilty myself, but I try to remember from hince I came.
Edit: As we see below, people become experts ovenight. In three years, if suddenly you find yourself divorced again, you'll be singing out the other side of your face. Seen it tooooooooo many times! The alternative? Stop judging and start understanding, as this thread offered. Falling on deaf ears, I'm sure.
Outta here, I got fun to be had! | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:46:36 PM | zangie..
I have enjoyed most of your posts...yours are very thoughful...
To simplify things...
A woman who tries to read EVERYTHING on understanding a man is cutting off her nose to spite her face.... What she ends up doing is finding anything that men "like" and then doing it for him....thinking "I will do what men like from women".
What she doesn't understand is that men will SAY ANYTHING if it gets them the woman....they are not lying...they do mean it.
Lazy predators are great for the following:
1. Men say they like women to chase them.... Then silly women chase them....and alas...it doesn't work....he's MIA....or..unavailable after awhile.
2. Men say they like FWBs. "The "friendship" is great and it could lead to...." and you will find that women will be doing it...thinking they are pleasing men...and ...guess what ...they are crying later on that he found the "One" behind their backs!
3. Men say they like "mature" women who don't want to be courted or persued, and then you will find the women who spout that they don't do that nonsense either.....the divorce lawyers tell different stories...and the men "players" tell a different story, too. "She was starved for romance and was an easy prey....that's why she cheated with me....I gave it to her"
4. Men say that they like a sexually aggressive woman who doesn't ask anything of them, and again, you will find the women who try to "win" him by being "sexy" and nothing else...Intelligence and communication??? Wha's that?
Women, it is in your best interest to be the total woman you can be....men are more attracted to women who are women....not men pleasers....
Just think...do you want a man who is a wimp who just wants to be a "Yes, maam" type?
I'd step on him like he was a bug.
So...if you like to be persued and courted...say it loud and clear!
As far as original post. OP...if he's not into you...he's not into you...and chasing him will be like chasing your tail....round and round....
A man who loves you will chase and persue you forever....and you can delight in being receptive....that is a romance to live for....it never ends...
Irish....you have the recipe....and Daisy does smile....
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:52:20 PM | Geeze....got a big sledge hammer...that's the only way into a man's head....and a bloody mess is all you'll see.
To pursue or not to pursue..and how long....hmmmm...
Ahhh Daisy so you do agree with me....pursue each other forever....music to my eyes!
Irish
VVVVV hey Daisy's my type...and apparently not yours....it'sok agree to disagree...isn't it? | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:54:12 PM | Reading Daisy's post with all the respect I can muster, I shake my head and surmise that we speak different languages. How so? I looked up her profile and see she is in BC. I would not have thought BC is very different from California, but maybe I err. I expected her to be in, oh, let's say, South Podunk, Kansas, but no, I was mistaken.
But look at this:
....to base ALL of your experiences on what women want on one experience with one woman is so limiting...
Who could disagree with that? I have been fortunate enough to love and live with many wonderful women. The wife I loved most (and still do) is a skilled marriage counselor and I learned a lot from her. I have had enough experience of wonderful women to appreciate how awesome females can be. Yet there may be a sampling bias: most of the women in my life are very successful in whatever they do. I don't have much experience with less "successful" women however I do not wish to judge or belittle Rosie the Riveter or Margie the Waitress or Holly the Hooker for being whatever they are. There's room for all.
I am glad that you found happiness with a woman who didn't like to be courted....
I didn't say that. What is noticeable is that emotionally mature and secure women do not need to be courted. They have desires, are not ashamed to have desires, they express desires, and know that sometimes you get what you want and sometimes you don't. They are grown up, not children.
A savvy man who wants to improve his chances with women should read what the majority of women do want.
Any man who thinks of women in terms of his "improving his chances" may be a terrific gambler but he is not a grown up or a lover.
Yes...there are women out there who do believe in the aggressive persuit of men...but... ....
Any woman or any man who considers "agressive pursuit" appropriate in human relationships will do well to become a Marine or Army infantryman, or a used car salesman, or a missionary. She or he is not a lover. Love is about giving, "aggressive pursuit" is about getting.
He never learned to romance or court her...and now she wants it in her marriage. She will be starved after awhile. Then she will be susceptible to a man who can romance her...
There's a good point. Fools think that romance is a weapon to win the affection of another person. Real people know that romance is a gift you give to a person you already love. A rewarding stable relationship is often built on people who give each other more and more romance as time goes by. I have known such couples. Children assume that you can turn on romance to "win" your "prize" and then you may turn off the romance faucet, or maybe the tank just runs dry.
....they knew how to treat a woman well. ...
There is no such thing as knowing how to treat a woman well. What there is, is - being a person who knows how to treat other human beings well.
What is "a woman?" There is no such thing as a generic woman; each woman is unique and different and individual. That's one reason I love women.
Is there any reason why one's ability to treat others well is gender-specific? I think it may be best a case-by-case choice, one person at a time.
When they decided that they were interested in me, nothing...short of a freight train....stopped them from trying to impress me with their charm, their intelligence, their financials, their ability to protect, their leadership skills...and I loved it.
Sandbox stuff.
And... the worst thing that I didn't like? It's the man who will not get to know a woman through dating and courting. He expected on the first date that it has to be sexual right from the get go.
Any man whose goal is sexual release has a serious problem and a lot of growing up to do. And any woman who us so dumb that she lets a man like that into her life also has a lot of growing up to do. Tell the dude that you are not available to serve as a substitute for his right hand.
And anybody who thinks that "courting" and "dating" is an adequate way to get to know another person definitely needs to read some real books and less sentimental fiction.
...we women have the evolutionary priviledge of telling a man NO with our words, our actions and our body language that we are not into him sexually....in other words...shot down.
What sexist nonsense. Every human being has the right at any time to make choices including whether or not one chooses to engage in sexual intimacy. It is NOT just for women. I have kicked a woman out of my bed and am not shattered if my sexual overtures are declined and respect the right of choice every person I relate to, male or female. It is NOT a privilege only of females to make choices and if all that absurd argument can rest on is alleged evolutionary biology then hello, we are no longer animals in the jungle (I hope).
As to OP's question? .....It should never stop....why should something so pleasurable as romance between two people ever stop?
It should START, not stop, when a relationship is established.
The former wife I still love is the one who, even years after we divorced, continued to show affection for me with little presents left on my doorstep in Chicago, stuff like that. And last week when the radio played a piece of music I know she likes, I immediately telephoned her so she could hear it. You do NOT need to be hostile to those with whom you no longer maintain a marriage or committed relationship and you do NOT need to stop romantic gestures.
... The slow dancing to the Righteous Bros. ...
LOL. Try Stevie Wonder's "Songs in the Key of Life."
He says he would do this for the rest of his life....for me. What woman can resist that?
A woman who lives by intelligence rather than being swept away by her emotions.
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 7:02:31 PM |
Why do so many Americans assume that being romantic is something you do to begin a relationship?
Why not initiate a relationship with cold hard rationality then if it develops and you want to maintain it then becoming romantic is a way to do it?
First, not only Americans. I didn't get to the US till I was 27, and I loooove romance
Second, "cold hard rationality" could only lead to a friendship, not a romantic relationship for me. My guess it that I am not alone.
fra59e, I am criticizing you. It's just that people with your attitude and mine would never click. So what? You have your crowd, and I have mine | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 7:05:03 PM |
PS: You didn't answer the question. How many attempts did you make at initiating contact with men? And, I seriously doubt any woman that is admonishing men will answer the question.
I did so:
"I haven't counted how often I have initiated contact in my life, and I doubt it's in the 100's because there aren't that many men that interest me enough to give it a try, but, it is a large enough sample to know it doesn't work for me..maybe it works for other women...but, I'd bet a large sum of money that most of those women have far more options and are farther up on the hotness scale than I am..."
Yesterday I contacted two...one read deleted, the other read and didn't respond..they were on my match list, which normally I don't even look at...In the history of being online I'd guess somewhere around 50 or so....but, keep in mind...I would only contact men who really piqued my interest, and I have enough contacts FROM men to keep me busy too....in real life..have no idea...but, same thing...never works...always works much better when he decides he finds me attractive by initiating...then I don't have to do the am I presuming thing again...there is a difference , btw...I am flattered by any man who expresses interest, whether he interests me or not...and I don't judge by how hot he is either...many men are hateful and cruel if they don't find you attractive enough...plus, of the few who dated me a while after I initiated...always turned out I was a stop gap thing...
I am not admonishing men, Levi..you read it that way..I am just saying what I like and why...don't expect all men to agree or do it...but, I can have my opinion can't I?
You want men to get a glimpse into women's mind, start a thread that addresses the issue!
Since, as a woman, I can't answer the question directly...I can only respond to what men have said, and give my take on it...and since, an all male thread, with whatever opinion would be boring and/or redundant ( as an all female thread would)...I don't see that I can't put my 2 cents in.... | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 7:10:31 PM | sigh...
I looked up her profile and see she is in BC. I would not have thought BC is very different from California, but maybe I err. I expected her to be in, oh, let's say, South Podunk, Kansas, but no, I was mistaken.
See...how easily you can be mistaken? What do they say about assuming?
You were married to a marriage counsellor? Now you are divorced.....
Hmmmm.....I feel some of your qualities can be arrogance and snobbery...given your thought that I lived in Podunk, Kansas...
Nothing is what it seems...is it?
I still think you need to learn about women.....and...now....how long will you persue a woman who has captured all of your senses? Especially if sh's wholly receptive to your brand of persuit? Would you do it forever??
Your answer? About a woman who could resist that?
A woman who lives by intelligence rather than being swept away by her emotions.
Is this the kind of woman you want? | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 8:11:15 PM | To restate what someone else attemted (directed to the women who have said they've decided that pursuing is bad because of their personal poor success with it) - You may be drawing a wrong conclusion.
Everyone likes different things. These days, many of us choose to be quite picky about it. So it turns out that the odds of two people being instantly attracted to each other is quite low. As a result, when you approach someone, there's a good chance you will be rejected. (S)he probably just isn't the person for you - The odds don't favor it, so you have to keep trying.
Now if someone approaches you first, that means they are already interested. It's a done deal. So if you don't count all the people who you rejected, and only consider those where there was obviously mutual attraction from the outset (they approached because they were interested, and you didn't blow them off because you were too)... Well, of course the success rate will be higher than it would be if the other person's interest started out uncertain.
You can choose to overanalyse the male psyche all you like - A multi-billion dollar magazine industry is founded on it, after all. Some of us males are telling you how it is... That all else being equal, a man of quality isn't going to be scared off because a woman makes the first move, or takes an equal share in the relationship going forward. I guess you can choose to believe us, or to imagine that you know our minds better than we do.
Some guys probably do get scared off, because their various insecurities (need for control, whatever) rear their ugly heads. Wouldn't you rather get that out of the way so you can move on and find a higher-quality guy? | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 8:44:29 PM |
"cold hard rationality" could only lead to a friendship, not a romantic relationship for me.
Isn't friendship the best foundation on which to build a romantic relationship? | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 8:46:49 PM |
I guess you can choose to believe us, or to imagine that you know our minds better than we do.
Just for the record....I don't disbelieve you....but , I do know you are in the minority..and I know far more men that don't like it than do...and they aren't all "low quality" as you call it...just different outlook than you have...and they have features ( non physical ones) I like..which is what I base my interest in..not by what other men say I should like? It's not a matter of saying you aren't being truthful..it's a matter of years of experience with men, and knowing what works for me and what doesn't...btw...and this equal share in the relationship is a whole other topic...and I won't get into my equal doesn't mean same thing...lol..I'm not an advocate for gender role changing in romantic relationships...
It is also true that I have a different outlook based on my life experiences and when and how I grew up...I'm not especially enthralled with some of the changes, myself...
And for record...I still on occasion give it a shot, just hasn't proven to be a reliable method, and I have methods that do work...another one tonight...odds are..sooner or later someone would reciprocate or reply in a positive manner...I'm not holding my breath...I'll let you all know if it ever works....
EDIT: Another way to look at this...men tend, generally, to be more logical and goal oriented ..women tend to be more emotionally driven, and in romantic relationships..I am..how I feel when I am with a guy holds a lot of weight for me...and how I feel is to a large percentage driven by how he treats me...and whether it feels like he likes me...nothing logical about it in my mind, and it shouldn't be...not for me... | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 11:02:14 PM | Any guy who is scared off (turned off, whatever) just because an interesting woman made the first move, has some kind of insecurity issue. I suppose we all have something like that though - Nobody's perfect, for sure!
I think for many of us, the chase isn't nearly as enthralling as the woman herself!  | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 11:24:15 PM | Look Zangie,
You have made your attempts at approaching men with, mostly, bad results.
Men have made their attempts, multi-fold, with mostly bad results.
Who should give-up?
I don't think the negative results have to do with a gender, per say.
Aside from personal preferences, which probably comprise 80% of non-responses, to me it just means there are a lot of screwed-up people in the world. Yep, I said it and I stand by it.
Therefore, why should a man "pursue" a woman unless she reciprocates interest (same for a woman). And, if she is amoung the 20% that is mutually interested, he/ she then has to concern themselves with if they are, or are not screwed-up in the head.
It's like looking for a needle-in-a-haystack. It has nothing to do with initial contact, or which gender makes the gesture. It's just life! | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 11:48:25 PM |
You have made your attempts at approaching men with, mostly, bad results.
Men have made their attempts, multi-fold, with mostly bad results.
Who should give-up?
Very well put!
Damn us males and our logic. | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/18/2009 2:00:05 AM | Well, we seem to have two ends of the spectrum here.
One view is women should simper and purr and pretend they are ruled by emotions, whereas the reality is it's about controlling as long as possible.
The other view is emotions have nothing to do with it; it's all about logic and reason and sex doesn't seem to play any part at all.
Actually, neither of these views seem all that sexy to me. Or much fun, for that matter.
But what about the chase, as the OP says? How long are men supposed to pursue?
I do agree with the consensus that many men fall back on traditional roles when it comes to making the first move. It's generally accepted that men do. But do they have to keep on keeping on? Nah! Once you're a team, you work as a team...
Personally, if a man felt the need to pursue after I've made it clear I wasn't interested, I'd feel like I wasn't being listened to. It's like so many have said here (and been ignored because it was too obvious): it should be clear if your advances are appreciated, whether you made the first move or not. And then no one needs to pursue. They just need to bask in the love, baby.
Like I said earlier, think of Pepe Le Pew. Did that cat think he was all-man or just a horny skunk who wasn't listening to her? | |
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