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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/19/2009 5:34:15 PM |
Isn't it possible to enjoy the other sex without assuming that jumping into bed is expected?
I'm sure it's possible, but then, those are just friends, not romances then? You can't be naive enough to think that most men think it's ok to keep dating them , knowing it's not going to get physical? They complain about it all the time...feel used and mistreated? Been put in the friend zone? And that comment was in response to men who think if you don't get physical right away...you aren't into them..just using them somehow?
I'm perfectly capable of enjoying the company of men without sex ( in fact, isn't that what I get derided for a lot on the forums?..lol..not needing to make it physical right away?...lol))...but, if I know they want more, and I know I'm not going there..that wouldn't be fair or right , would it? There are several men I know right now, that I just like spending time with, and one who introduced me to local "big time wrestling"...something I never thought I would like...had a blast. But, they aren't ok with that..and they think it's a waste of time better spent on finding someone where a physical relationship is a possibility?
These days, most of my male friends are electronic relationships, or gay...lol...no expectations there...
But, to be honest...no, I'm not interested in a ROMANCE without physical passion, what would be the point? Here is something renman and I actually agree on..lol..I have a ton
of friends of both genders, not against making new ones...but, I'm looking for a love affair that that includes all aspects..which means physical intimacy too.
Arlo: I know you might find this hard to believe, knowing what you do about me, but...I'm actually not a fan of chick flicks...or romance novels either( I do love vampires, but not in a romance sense, and I know nothing of the current pop culture of them)...which leads me to believe that at least part of the reason I feel as I do is biological, not a result of any conditioning? or influences?
I find it curious, and baffling, why some men think women are so easily influenced or led, that how they feel can have no other reason than someone told them , or they read it, or whatever. They have such low expectations of us, and apparently think we can't think independently at all...or act on instinct.
I like to be "pursued", by my definition, because it makes me feel feminine, wanted and sexy. I fail to see why that is a bad thing, or why men resist it..in my case, and the case of many women..it is the key to what makes us tick sexually/romantically...I know I certainly didn't manufacture it , it just is. And it is no evil plot to make men suffer that I'm aware of...I grew up accepting it just is what it is...and perfectly natural.
As natural as the way any man may view love/sex/romance, from the male perspective...where it got twisted into some kind of power play, or way of making men do something they don't want to do, I have no idea.
I tend to think that somehow the twisted interpretation of equality has something to do with it...or, in some cases, a retaliation for women not behaving how some men want them too..it's often expressed on the forums...women won't behave like they think you should..so, they certainly aren't going to care about your needs or wants..and they are going to dismiss them, or ridicule them as not being valid.
Being aware of each others needs is a good thing...it isn't any more right or fair for some men to say my needs are irrelevant or outdated as it is for some women to claim men's are..they are what they are. If I can't ever understand entirely how men think/feel about anything, then how can they say they understand how I think/feel...and try to convince me I'm wrong? Or even worse...tell me how I should FEEL? | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/19/2009 5:44:28 PM |
Isn't it possible to enjoy the other sex without assuming that jumping into bed is expected?
I thought I'd tried just about everything, but "jumping" or "hopping" in bed has never been among my sexual experiences. It sounds complicated. How would that work?
I know that I spend time with female friends, and have had some great times. Those are "friends", and there's no confusion. You both know it's "just friends". There was a young lesbian co-worker, with whom I had many great times, including going to a lot of Brewers games.
What does that have to do with "pursuing" a woman in the hopes of having a romantic relationship? | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/19/2009 8:15:31 PM |
Isn't it possible to enjoy the other sex without assuming that jumping into bed is expected?
I'm sure it's possible, but then, those are just friends, not romances then?
Nonsense. I have enjoyed real relationships of love and romance without any implication at all of getting physical.
And BTW "friendship" does NOT mean "love lite."
. | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/19/2009 8:30:22 PM | I have enjoyed real relationships of love and romance without any implication at all of getting physical.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. For me, desire is instrinsic to romantic love, and what differentiates it from friendship. If the desire wanes, friendship may endure, but it won't be "romantic love". Too, for me, for there to be desire, it has to be mutual. If it isn't, then it's obsession. Either way, with a friend, there's no issue of "pursuit". On the other hand, pursuit when it's "one way", to me, is dysfunctional. | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/19/2009 8:44:47 PM |
It's almost like children playing tag at recess...you fellas want to all chase the fastest most ellusive girl running around out there - why? Because she IS fast. She is GOOD at dodging and escaping....she is who you MUST get and catch to be BIG man on the playground.
.....Which is EXACTLY why my profile headline is, what it is. | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/20/2009 7:38:02 AM |
It's almost like children playing tag at recess...you fellas want to all chase the fastest most ellusive girl running around out there - why? Because she IS fast. She is GOOD at dodging and escaping....she is who you MUST get and catch to be BIG man on the playground.
Well..... I guess I grew up then...
What makes a woman desirable is that she is fast, elusive, good at dodging, escaping??
I want her, and MUST catch her, because it makes me the "big" man on the playground??
Is that your thinking?
Wow....
It's baffling to me to think that there are adults who still think that adult relationships have parallel correlations to playground behaviour of boys and girls. But after being on the forums for a while, it's clear that huge gaps in fundamental thinking and behaviours exist.
What has become clear is that common sense, is not so common after all. In fact, it's rare...
I choose a woman based on positive attributes. And most often, characteristics that mirror my own. In lieu of that, characteristics that I find desirable, and what I think will yield me the best positive experiences in a relationship. I can have a good time, or I can have a great time. I choose the attributes that I think will afford me a great time.
I'm not drawn to elusiveness. I am not drawn to conquests in romance. If she displays ambivalence, she displays an instability, and an incapability of decisiveness. These ( and other characteristics ) all show me a lack of maturity. I'm not drawn to immaturity. Never have been, never will be.
I've always been enamoured with women. Little girls, I may find cute, but tiring and annoying. They can stay at the playground. I will avoid it... | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/20/2009 8:53:25 AM | As I sit here reading this most interesting thread, and remember an electric relationship from the past, what comes most to mind is that we both participated.
We danced the dance of romance right from where we met. Men and women are just different in how they naturally approach things. Yes he was more aggressive than me but I reciprocated. He never let me out of his sight without making reference to the next time we would meet. I desired to be with him. When I knew he was going to be a certain place and I was welcomed, nothing was going to stop me from being there. I'll admit, I put on the sexiest article of clothing I owned. I enticed him.
I cannot imagine a balanced relationship where one is relentlessly pursuing to other who is not reciprocating.
If you are pacing around wondering if the person of your attention is fulfilling a preconceived expectation of how it should be you are not caught in the experience. | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/20/2009 10:32:33 AM | ^^^ Ah, sweet reciprocity...
The succinct answer to the topic question, then, is probably "As long as they are getting something out of it"--same as it would be for any of us.
--Ms. Flis | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/20/2009 10:40:02 AM | | I think it's good for us guys to be the pursuers at first but really at some point it is good that both are able to open up about feelings, but not too early there. Some people just flee once someone has poured out their whole lives in front of the other, but I think its just healthy for the woman to eventually and gradually open up to the guy where she may even sometimes initiate things. | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/20/2009 3:19:12 PM | I'm sure it's possible, but then, those are just friends, not romances then? You can't be naive enough to think that most men think it's ok to keep dating them , knowing it's not going to get physical? They complain about it all the time...feel used and mistreated? Been put in the friend zone? And that comment was in response to men who think if you don't get physical right away...you aren't into them..just using them somehow?
A common thread with your angle to this discussion Zangie, makes it seem like you are equating "pursue" with "try to get in your pants". As if that is all the guy is pursuing.
I read the OP question differently - Pursue as in I call, you don't return the call, I call again, you pick up the phone but say you are busy Saturday, I should call you again later in the week and see if we can come up with something, etc. Playing hard to get and/or doing little to help. He chases, and she runs away, looking back to see if he's still chasing - That kind of pursuit.
Sex is part of the dating landscape, but I don't really see how it directly relates to the question. | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/20/2009 5:31:37 PM |
A common thread with your angle to this discussion Zangie, makes it seem like you are equating "pursue" with "try to get in your pants". As if that is all the guy is pursuing.
Nope..that was in direct response to something Fra said to me...had nothing to do with pursuing actually, even said it might be off topic..and the other was also in response to renman..also slightly off too...and no, I am insulted by that comment...I'm not talking about sex..I'm talking about romance in regards to the pursuit...
This is what I mean by a different definition( is this a mars/venus thing again?)...if I want a guy to pursue I am not going to run in the other direction, and I don't say I'm busy if I'm not, why would I avoid seeing someone I want to see and am interested in..I'm not talking about playing hard to get...I'm talking about showing and acting like he is interested, making an effort to to get my attention and interest..not expecting me to do all the work, or, not calling for two weeks then calling like no time has passed. Never doing fun or cool things to say he is interested...
Pursue to me doesn't imply I'm running in the other direction...it means showing by actions that he is interested...some men evidently think all pursuit is met with games, and that is not what I am talking about...it is entirely possible to pursue someone who reciprocates...maybe not being a guy, and not ever playing hard to get, it would never occur to me that it had any negative connotation...I'm just talking about not making me guess if he is interested or not...actually acting like it? | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/20/2009 6:34:15 PM | According to Websters 9th New Collegiate:
pursue = 1. to follow in order to overtake, capture, kill, or defeat.
Nope. I don't, nor do I want to, pursue women.
As I mentioned last year, when this thread began, I am looking for reciprocal indications of interest.
The "dance" analogy is one I've also used.
I expect to ask a woman to dance, but don't mind if she asks me. However, if I ask her to dance and she responds in a dismissive manor (even if it's to say, "maybe later"). I'm not gonna ask her again.
When she accepts and we're dancing, I fully expect to take the lead (at least with C&W dancing). Ya gotta have that figured out before you hit the dance floor, ya know.
After the dance, if she were to quickly walk away without expressing an appreciation for the dance, I'm not gonna ask her for another dance.
I don't want to "pursue" (overtake, capture, etc...) a woman just to get a dance.
Nor am I going to "pursue" to get a date (nor the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc...).
I might entice, but I never pursue.
To "pursue", by the above definition, seems a bit stalkerish.
just a few thoughts | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/20/2009 6:39:18 PM |
pursue = 1. to follow in order to overtake, capture, kill, or defeat.
I guess this is one of those differences between people who take things literally, and people who interpret or apply by circumstance. You can pursue without kill or defeat...you can pursue a career for instance, you can pursue your dreams...it has more than one definition.
I have never defined it as a game, or a capture...broader meaning in my mind... | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/21/2009 7:59:56 AM |
(zangie) Arlo: I know you might find this hard to believe, knowing what you do about me, but...I'm actually not a fan of chick flicks...or romance novels either...
Zangie: whether you (and I'm using "you" in the general sense, NOT refering to YOU specifically) are a fan of chick-flicks/romance novels, 0r not; they have, IMO, had a HUGE effect on the dating scene, and not a particularly good one.
You are a wonderful, fascinating, multi-faceted, individual, zangie.
Arlo | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/21/2009 8:03:12 AM |
(RenaissanceMan1950) I thought I'd tried just about everything, but "jumping" or "hopping" in bed has never been among my sexual experiences. It sounds complicated. How would that work?
Bah. Jumping in bed is easy... you want a challenge? Try standing up in a hamock.
Arlo | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/21/2009 9:57:27 AM | Unitl they get what they want or they get bored and move on....whichever comes first  !
Do us women have to sit here for ever and be pursued until a man makes a firm commitment?
Gosh OP, I hope not....especially in this day in age when most people have "bright shiny object syndrome" and are easily distracted by the next best thing that comes along. You could be sitting around doing nothing for a very long time.
My belief is call when you want, attempt to makes plans, talk about your feelings when you want. What is the worst that can happen? Ummm....ok....rejection. Rejection never killed anyone...it only hurts for a moment...kinda like a shot.  Live life! | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/21/2009 11:17:27 AM |
(SassyRedhead10) Gosh OP, I hope not....especially in this day in age when most people have "bright shiny object syndrome" and are easily distracted by the next best thing that comes along.
Arlo | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/21/2009 11:48:43 AM | Lets turn this question around a bit. How long should a woman assume a man is interested if he pursues her then disappears? IMO a man needs to make his intentions known and do so quickly. I'm not getting any younger and I'm not sitting around waiting on a man to "let me know what he wants" forever. He best "man up" and make it clear. If he don't want to talk to me, that's fine, there's someone else out there that will. Don't waste my time, don't play games...just tell me what you want so that we are both clear. For godsakes, don't assume that I'm sitting around waiting on you to call me either. You best rest assured that If you're not calling, I'm not sitting there waiting on the phone to ring. My life is going on with or w/o you. | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/21/2009 1:04:16 PM |
(fra59e) Isn't it possible to enjoy the other sex without assuming that jumping into bed is expected?
*shrug* Absolutely. But, a relationship without physical intimacy is not what most men are looking for.
Has anybody read about the wonderful love affair between George Bernard Shaw and the Abbess of Stanbrook - the mother superior of a convent?
Okay, there, George!
Arlo | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/21/2009 1:21:37 PM | | When I contact someone, it is nice to get a response back to make sure they are interested. After that, it is whenever and however often we both feel like talking. Once you know that the opposite is interested and you are interested you have to allow time to get to know someone. It is not an instant thing all the time, but then there are times it is... I think each situation is different and you cannot broad brush it into one simple thing. And as far as having friends, just to be friends...it can be done but if either is attracted to the other, it can be just as lonely as not having a friend... | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/21/2009 9:04:56 PM |
Zangie: whether you (and I'm using "you" in the general sense, NOT refering to YOU specifically) are a fan of chick-flicks/romance novels, 0r not; they have, IMO, had a HUGE effect on the dating scene, and not a particularly good one.
You are a wonderful, fascinating, multi-faceted, individual, zangie.
Thank you saying such nice things Arlo...blushing now...
I may have been not entirely truthful now that I think about it...I like some romantic comedies, don't like female bonding ones though...but, I grew out of romance novels when I was still a teenager...
I don't think most women believe in them literally..they believe in the idea of romance? And this kind of stuff has been around forever, why does it make a difference now? Most women like romance, and interestingly, most romantic movies are written by men. So, they must think there is some validity to romance? They must even have personal experience with it. I just watched" love, actually" which is what I think is a great movie about love of all kinds, and romance. I really don't know why men sometimes think it is a bad thing to be romantic..most women respond to it. I know I and other women I know make it a point to know what men respond to, and incorporate it.
Most of the men I have dated, did romantic things..and I really believe that if a guy likes you enough, he will be romantic, and show interest, and pursue ( by my definition)... | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/22/2009 10:51:31 PM | Zangie - How did you turn this into a debate about whether romance in a relationship is desirable? Is anyone really opposed to romance? Surely any realistic guy expects women to appreciate it.
Being forced/expected to pursue is another thing entirely. That's imo, sure... But Webster's seems to back me up!
Once you're in a comitted relationship, there's no more pursuing necessary. They're caught already! | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/22/2009 11:56:42 PM | ^^^ Um, she answered a previous post...which commented on chick flicks and their portrayal of romantic pursuit.
The American Heritage Dictionary says of "pursuit":
1. To follow in an effort to overtake or capture; chase.
2. To strive to gain or accomplish.
3. To proceed along the course of; follow.
4. To carry further; advance.
5. To be engaged in (a vocation or hobby, for example).
6. To court.
7. To continue to torment or afflict; haunt.
Many of those seem to apply to both pursuit and to romance.
Once you're in a comitted relationship, there's no more pursuing necessary. They're caught already!
You never had anything get away even after it was caught...?
--Ms. Flis | |
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| How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/23/2009 2:19:25 PM |
(msflis) The American Heritage Dictionary says of "pursuit":
... and, every legal code with which I'm familiar has "stalking" somewhere in there. You never see Restraining Orders in modern-day "romance" literature/chick-flicks.
Arlo | |
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