|
|
|
|
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 4:51:54 PM | How can I possibly show you how the movement has changed to female superiority?
It's a matter of opinions.
Opinions given on the threads, which is how you started this thread...
Since I have started using the forums on pof(some just read,others posting)I have encountered sutch hatred of feminism,I have to admit,I'm shocked.
Going by the forums (which was what I was responding about), trust me when I say, I have been accused of being a "feminazi" simply because I did not agree with something that a man had said.
I have read many, many, many threads in which people state how they feel about feminism. Whether their opinions were positive or negative depends on your point of view.
I have seen women write that simply because they are female, they deserve more than men.
I have read women's opinions that state that men are no longer needed by us.
I have read women's opinions that state that feminism has been positive, yet they will then turn around and complain that they aren't being treated special by the man in their life, as it's something that all women inherently deserve, simply for possessing a vagina.
When I have male friends tell me of being berated by women simply because they have offered to open a door for them, can you honestly say that you think that is helpful to the women's movement?
It isn't. Blame THOSE women, not the people who think the women's movement has lost touch with reality.
I think the original idea of feminism definitely had it's place, but if you think that it is portrayed these days in a positive light, I have to disagree.
Whose fault is that?
The women who are part of the movement.
Not all, but the ones who think that being pro-women carries an automatic obligation to be anti-men.
Basically, the women's movement has become a war. An almost literal battle of the sexes at times. | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 5:00:53 PM | Grandmabooboo wrote some great stuff, and it will take me hours of typing to touch on all of it, but I agree with her.
Feminists fought hard for equal rights and equal treatment, and we've reaped the benefits, but now women are almost seeming to be fighting against what we've won.
Why?
Because, wait a minute, we have to actually put our money where our mouths are?!
I could give a number of examples from the personal lives of friends and family members about just how out of balance things are between men and women...but a number of them are on here and my pictures up!
I don't believe that men are ahead of us at all. I don't believe that women fought for equality, I believe that a number of feminists won't be happy unless men are making less money, are less happy and are given less opportunity. That is NOT equality.
I can't even tell you how many times I've seen the words (or other versions of the same) "Men still make more money than women".
I call bullshyte.
Why?
Because women CAN make as much money as men, but many don't want to get their hands dirty or break a nail.
These women want everyone to believe that it's MEN keeping them from getting a better education, better job, better everything.
We (both men AND women) are the only ones who can affect whether or not we advance or stay where we are. | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 5:08:34 PM | I'm a feminist. You'd assume the opposite was the case by reading my posts on this subject but nope, I believe in all the same basic tenets of feminism as real feminists do.
Too bad real feminists don't run the show anymore. That's why so many people consider modern feminism to be a four letter word. The radicals took over, got their misandric views worked into the system and created a hostile environment for men. What would you expect from men ? Groups such as NOW have made a point of spreading lies , false statistics, and promoting group-think all for their own very narrow agenda which has nothing whatsoever to do with real feminism. The excesses of radical feminism are innumerable and unfortunately for our society, most of said excesses came at the expense of men. It's no mystery why so many men and an increasing number of women despise what feminism has become. It stopped being about equality and justice a long time ago. Now it's about spreading misery, victimology, and misandry. | |
|
| |
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 5:17:21 PM |
MEN are NOT the enemy.......it's our so-called "sisterhood" that is the enemy. Hmm... okay, women in a group is bad... but then:
Since the inception of "women's rights" it is the men who have learned to diaper and bath babies, mix formula.......my ex-husband even learned how to tie the "perfect bow" in our 3 daughter's Sunday School dresses. . . . Men learned how to do a load of laundry, sew on a button, and how to cook a meal. In fact, it's not all that uncommon today to see men who are totally in charge of the household cooking. And this male domestication is due to those bad, bad women who wanted "women's rights," you say? Hmmmm.... interesting...
What we do NOT similarly see, is women who are mowing the lawn, doing car repairs, or household maintenance, etc. (And apologies to those of us women who DO do those things....I know that our numbers are growning but we are still a minority) Well, I don't know about your neck of the woods, but sweetie, in my country we fend for ourselves. I mow, cook, clean, repair, paint and just about everything else that comes my way. I used to help my dad repair his car and had a serious obsession over my granddad's tractor.
Equality is about more than who does the household chores and who mows the lawn. It is about being treated as a human being and not just a chromosome. | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 5:18:33 PM | Oh well then... if we're going to play feminist quote poker, allow me to show you my 4 of a kind:
"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a door mat or a prostitute."
~Rebecca West, "Mr Chesterton in Hysterics: A Study in Prejudice," The Clarion, 14 Nov 1913
"Every time we liberate a woman, we liberate a man." ~ Margaret Mead
"Because women's work is never done and is underpaid or unpaid or boring or repetitious...
and we're the first to get fired...
and what we look like is more important than what we do...
and if we get raped it's our fault...
and if we get beaten we must have provoked it...
and if we raise our voices we're nagging bitches...
and if we enjoy sex we're nymphos...
and if we don't we're frigid...
and if we love women it's because we can't get a "real" man...
and if we ask our doctor too many questions we're neurotic and/or pushy...
and if we expect childcare we're selfish...
and if we stand up for our rights we're aggressive and "unfeminine"...
and if we don't we're typical weak females...
and if we want to get married we're out to trap a man...
and if we don't we're unnatural...
and because we still can't get an adequate safe contraceptive but men can walk on the moon...
and if we can't cope or don't want a pregnancy we're made to feel guilty about abortion...
and for lots of other reasons we are part of the women's liberation movement."
~ Author unknown, quoted in The Torch, 14 September 1987
"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions... for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare... for rape crisis centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'"
~ Dale Spender, 1985 | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 5:33:57 PM | Like Pagalia said:
Feminism has become a catch-all vegetable drawer where bunches of clingy sob sisters can store their moldy neuroses. Neuroses...I would say that clinging to one or two sentences ignoring the context of same would qualify.
And this male domestication is due to those bad, bad women who wanted "women's rights," you say? Hmmmm.... interesting... NO!!! ABSOLUTELY NOT! "Male domestication" was NOT due to women....bad, good or otherwise. "Male domestication" was due to MEN coming to the realization that women did have legitimate grievances and they (men) adjusted their behaviors accordingly.
We still have an amazing number of people who do not know that ERA FAILED. Women did not "gain" rights by a popular vote. We (women) were already had the right to equal education and employment under the Civil Rights Act of 1964....just so few knew it.....or were willing to "test" it by actually asserting those rights.
Therefore, the "male domestication" was a strictly voluntary act on the part of men who in a spirit of CO-OPERATION.....adapted their behaviors.
My dear....#1, I do not appreciate your condescending use of the term "sweetie", but let me point out to you that you neglected to read between the ( )'s. NOR did I attack YOU personally....so your defense of what YOU have done personally was/is unnecessary and not relevant to the topic. (FYI, dearie...I'm a construction worker).
Indeed...."equality IS about more than who does what household chores or mows the lawn. It is ALSO about more than being treated as a chromosone. It is about EQUAL RESPONSIBLITY and ACCOUNTABILITY.....in ALL areas! | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 5:36:16 PM | I dislike feminism because it's extreme and it helps only females. Why can't you say you're for equality--meaning that all person's should have equal rights, instead of fighting for "female" rights.
Nutt | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 5:56:11 PM | grandma boo boo,you state that in 2008 70% of women did not consider education or employment(re read your post,it's what you said)Where did you come up with your statistics?
Furthermore,aside from one or two posts,most of the anti-feminist rants have been rude,insulting,and full of "facts" .Many feminists complain about the lack of female representation in "dirty"jobs.usually jobs like sanitation worker fall under the domain of city employee.
I also will point out,that I have not been half as rude defending feminisim,as most of you have been attacking it.
Water finds it's own level! | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 6:29:29 PM | Please stop with the farce that women are as intelligent as men, for overall brain power men have always lead the field, such as chemist, mathemeticians, and nuclear physics. Ratio is 30 to 2
The intellegence gene is in the X chromosome, which means men get their intellegence from their mothers and women get theirs from both parents
So, if a man is smart it came from his mother 
| |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 6:56:23 PM |
Wow,thanks for making my point ,with a hostile,illogical,response.
Really, my post was not intended to be hostile or illogical. In fact it was very logical from what I read. Also, I would point out thatmy answers to your questions were based on what I believe the reason for why there is such hostility towards feminism. I never said I believed the stereotypes. I was just simply answering a question.
Where did you get your info about Gloria Steinem and NOW trying to "push" women out of the house?
Well, I got it from my readings andmy interprestation of the readings I had in my Women and Genders Studies Course, in addition to other writings that I have read. I tend to ready a variety of books and articles, and it always strikes me that Gloria Steinem and NOW have alterior motives then just equality.
And obviously I used wikipedia as being quick,i'm not going to tell people to enroll in a womens study course to learn an overview of feminisim,but no you jump on that so you can insult my intelligence.
There are an infinite number of problems with Wikipedia, and you don't even want to start with the spin that is placed upon them. I'm surprised that you would discourage people from enrolling in an facility of education to learn an overview of feminism. Even a 100 level course at most universities would do wonders to many people and is a great overview of feminism, the history of, and several other aspects of it.
I think Grandma BooBoo and others have made some really good ponts. There is a difference between classic feminism and neo-feminism. There was once a time where feminism was about equal rights, now, it has evolved into something completely different.
The one thing about feminism that has always bothered me is this, and maybe some of the "feminist" in the forum can answer this question for me.
When men reach the age of 18, they are required to register for the Selective Service. However, women are not. In fact, I don't think women can, but don't quote me on that latter part. This to me seems extremely discriminatory.
So will someone please explain to mewhy it is that if feminism is truly about equality, they are not fighting and complaining that only men have to register for the selective service and that they both don't have to? | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 7:11:37 PM | | We do not have selective service in canada, so I can not comment.I know you have many women in the armed forces,so please do not insult their contribution.I did not discourage anyone from taking a womens study course,I simply stated wikipedia b/c some people have no possibility of attending university(why would Idiscourage any post-secondary education,please think before you type).I also note how you think NOW and Gloria Steinem have"alterior motives" but you don't give one example. | |
|
| |
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 11:21:53 PM | Sorry - I don't normally do this, but I just found it so funny
Katie36: you wrote
"the basic premise of feminisim is social,political and economic equality of the sexes.Please check your facts before responding to a sensitive topic like this."
This would suggest that there is still inequality between the sexes - at least to feminists - but that's the problem. Nobody else thinks that there is that inequality anymore. There used to be yes, but not anymore - and no - the glass ceiling/pay equity issue is just a myth.
Edit: its funny you're pushing the equality angle, but when it comes to dating - you're definitely old school..... I believe you said "I don't want to ask,I want to be offered [the drink]." Can we say hypocrisy?
| |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/29/2008 11:43:53 PM | Right! Guys will think you're a gold digger if they think you want them to buy you a drink
Buy your own drinks, dammit - and to hell with dating, just go out with the chicks, pay for your own drinks and then go out to breakfast
I got it all figured out... 
| |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/30/2008 4:53:49 AM | You answered your own question in your opening post.
So many people seem to feel that feminism means you hate men,the family unit,g-d,children ect...
People ,mostly men but sometimes women, mistakenly believe that being a feminist means you are a militant, man hating , ball buster. That's not what a feminist is. A feminist is a woman who simply believes in equal rights. The ball busting , man hating variety are simply women with serious issues.
It's cause they're one of the most humourless groups in the world. They get offended too easily.
Actually that would be short men , not feminist. | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/30/2008 5:03:02 AM |
I recently found a real woman on here who knows how to be a real woman and she works, cooks, cleans and is a great lover. She knows how to treat a man!
Sweetie those "real dolls" don't count as a real woman. Real dolls are not really alive no matter how good your imagination is. | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/30/2008 6:12:13 AM |
I dislike feminism because it's extreme and it helps only females. Why can't you say you're for equality--meaning that all person's should have equal rights, instead of fighting for "female" rights. EXACTLY!
It's cause they're one of the most humourless groups in the world. They get offended too easily. EXACTLY!
Perhaps it's because they ask questions, and then shoot down the answers they disagree with. EXACTLY!
Wow... wonder what we could have done had be been allowed to attend the same colleges and not had to get a note from Mr. Dude if we even wanted to go in a college library? Heavens knows what great minds never acheived their true potential because they were too busy birthin' babies and taking care of you big, strong men so you could use your bigger brain power to figure out new ways to keep us in the kitchen... ahem... In checking profiles, I do see that I am 10-20 years OLDER than the "feminists" posting here which may explain part of the reason that I blow off what I consider some of the "petty issues". To clarify; although the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did (on paper) grant women access to equal education and employment, it was ONLY after another 10 years that you actually saw women excercising those rights. This was NOT something that was "popular" and certainly not "encouraged". Even so, in 1982.....18 YEARS afterward.....banks were STILL denying home loans to women, stating that their employment was "temporary". I KNOW this......because in 1982, as the major wage earner of the family (earning approximately 30% MORE than my husband....and having been at MY job 3 X LONGER than he had been at his), WE were told that MY income could not be counted as income....because my employment was "unstable".....meaning that....they knew as soon as I became pregnant that I would quit and stay home to raise kids!!! LOL! I kinda wondered how they explained away the fact that I had NOT done that with the first 4!!!! (children). It was a simple matter of having my congressman call the bank to explain the LAW to them, but what I did NOT do...was rant and rave about "equality". TALK is cheap! Or as the saying goes...Money talks.....BS walks! You (used collectively....not pointing at ANY individual) can Yak Yak Yak all you want about "equality"....but the proof is in the pudding baby! Talk ALL you want about what women COULD do....but UNTIL they are actually DOING it...it's nothing but talk!
I could have talked all day about how I COULD take that 72.6 pound lenth of pipe on my feminine little shoulder and climb 60' into the air, hanging off the steel like a monkey with a 18" wrench in one hand and a 14" in the other, but NOBODY would have believed it....until I PROVED it. (shut up and DO it!)
Lurtle makes the point:
Some use it in the same way a child would use the phrase "Oh yeah? Well you're a big poopy head". Today's "feminist" movement is just that.....a bunch of children screaming for "their rights", but refusing to accept any of the responsibilities that go along with it.
You CANNOT raise the quality of anything by LOWERING the standards of that "equality". We do NOT obtain equality by having things made EASIER for us...then it's NOT "equality"...it's CHARITY. It's a "giveaway", a "freebie"...but it's NOT "equality"; 2 does NOT equal 5!
I disagree (as statistics will support) that women have lower IQs than men. The differences in performance in the areas of math and science begin to show up at approximately age 9, and it is commonly believed that the gap is due NOT to IQ, but rather to "socialization". By adulthood however, yes...men do outperform women in the areas of math, applied sciences, mechanical reasoning, but they underperform in the areas of language comprehension, spatial visualization.....and are you ready for this guys???? "LOGIC". LOL! Don't shoot the messenger!
Buy your own drinks, dammit - and to hell with dating, just go out with the chicks, pay for your own drinks and then go out to breakfast LOL! This guy I was talking to who wanted to meet me......well, last night I offered to buy him lunch when I have to be in his town tomorrow getting my truck serviced...and he told me.....he doesn't let women buy his lunch! LOL! Oh well....his loss I guess!
I still stand by my original statement: NO MAM!!!! Do not insult me by calling me a "feminist". Other than my grandmother who taught me to bake a pie, and my aunt who taught me to sew....I've learned NOTHING from "women". My mentors, defenders, instructors, encouragers...have almost without exception been MEN. When I was 27 yrs old, taking machine shop at an adult education night class....because I NEEDED it to pass a test to get into an apprenticeship program for skilled trades....it was MEN who helped me and encouraged me....and said....YOU CAN do this. Women (feminists) on the other hand.....told me I was stupid for wanting to ruin my manicure! | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/30/2008 7:21:11 AM | Grandma boo boo you're an idiot.IF as you say in your own post,the only thing you learned from a woman,is how to bake a pie,beleive me we,dont want you to call yourself a feminist.How you could show a lack of respect of that magnitude to your own mother and grandmother is beyond me.Did they molest you?
Your arguments are so poorly structured,I think you might be having a manic episode.
Feminists told you not to work because you would break a nail?Bullshit.
Sexyfunguy,you take my quote out of context,If I am oldfashioned in how I date,Im a hypocrite?I can't win can I?Either I have to hate men,not date,not accept a drink offered by a man I am flirting with in a bar,or I am a hypocrite?
Furthermore,I have been receiving ugly messages about jesebels,and whores of babylon in my inbox.How mentally unstable are you people?I am not even allowed to have a differing opinion without being threatened with hellfire? | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/30/2008 8:00:58 AM | Brainwashing campaign from the Second Wage, leader's voices statements and women's group political platform promoting the open agenda of destruction of marriage, dissolution of nuclear family and limiting women's choices to an undisputed line of thinking declaring men as the enemy, women's victimhood syndrome, lobbying for a legislation that is a clear intention of legalization of misandry is widespreaded in more than 40 yrs practice and results that you can easily find in the web... if looking a little more than in wikipedia.
To call people idiots because the acknoweldge of what you deny, even if anecdotal life experience, is not an argument for a debate and is not consequent with the claim of not being rude. It's to shoot the messanger instead the message. | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/30/2008 8:18:04 AM | "Because anyone who uses Wikipedia to look up information obviously, at least in my opinion, as well as the opinion of my scholarly peers, has the brain capacity of someone with a lobotomy. "
hmm, if you are sooo "smart" then why are you obese? is it because you don't KNOW all of the negative health consequences to being a glutton? the high likelihood of a shorter life-span?
or you just don't care?
and is THAT being "smart".. ?? | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/30/2008 8:31:40 AM | "Because anyone who uses Wikipedia to look up information obviously, at least in my opinion, as well as the opinion of my scholarly peers, has the brain capacity of someone with a lobotomy. "
hmm, if you are sooo "smart" then why are you obese? is it because you don't KNOW all of the negative health consequences to being a glutton? the high likelihood of a shorter life-span?
(you can even look it up on Wikipedia..they have that much information..)
or you just don't care?
and is THAT being "smart".. ??
While I don't like the way he constructed his post against wikipedia, You're not doing anything constructive with this one. Since you seem to know your way around it, I'd ask you to go there, and type in:
Ad hominem
This goes to the person you quoted as well. You may agree with your scholarly peers, but since you carry the air of someone with 'higher education' - surely you'd know that to have a constructive and useful discussion, one must display arguments and reasons to support your claims. Again, ad hominem. | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/30/2008 8:55:44 AM | Cubanguy,
you do not have one fact to back up your argument about the "second WAVE"of feminisim.
And if someone (man or woman)says the only thing women EVER taught them is how to bake a pie,then yes they are idiotic,and a liar.We all learn plenty,from both men and women.
And what legislation is it that feminists want that involves the legalization of misandry?Please tell me the name of this bill.
I bet you can't.
Btw,neither mysogeny or misandry are "illegal". | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/30/2008 9:16:25 AM | It is disingenuous to say that men just decided to do the right thing and help out with some of the housekeeping chores, just as it is disingenuous to say that women have not reciprocated with taking on traditional “male” household chores. In fact, keeping this all about the domestic scene is 100% disingenuous – it is about being respected and treated as an equal in society and not just at home.
I am only in my 40’s and I remember in middle school that we had a dress code and girls were not allowed to wear any kind of pants or slacks. One girl got sent home because she wore slacks on a dress down day. Recess was a farce – have you ever tried to do anything physical in a dress? Even simply playing on the swings was ruined by the boys who wanted to catch a glimpse of your underwear. One of their favorite games was to run a pack of girls down, catch one and then pull her underwear off. What a way to impress the ladies, guys. And what did the playground assistants say when they finally managed to chase the boys off? “Why did you let them do that?” Yeah, right… I let them….
In 5th grade, I was the only one who took our teacher’s bait and signed up to debate the Pro side on “women’s lib.” At the last minute, one of my neighborhood friends (a boy no less) signed up with me. As the debate progressed, the Con side wasn’t doing so well so the teacher had to jump in and give them a little help. He asked me what I thought about the “bra burners.” Way to go, teach… let’s keep it in the gutter. I said I didn’t understand what that had to do with a debate on equality but he managed to shout me down and ultimately he declared that the Con side had won. LOL. Not only that, he rewarded my friend (who usually was in detention) by making this proclamation in front of the class: “Now, XXX, I know you just took the Pro side because you felt sorry for XXX and I know that you don’t REALLY believe in ‘women’s lib,” so you don’t have any more detention this week.” Right, so just in case the rest of you girls don't get the picture, if you get uppity like this one here, just remember no one really believes you and I will jump all over you and try to publicly shame you...
In 7th grade, I set off a holy war with the Home Ec and Shop Teachers when I said I wanted to take Shop instead of Home Ec and I didn’t understand why that was a big deal. OMG, you would have thought I was threatening to burn the school down. The Home Ec teacher took every opportunity to punish me – god knows the hours I spent chopping onions and ripping seams. The Shop teacher caught me in the hall one day and proceeded to call me out for a fist fight. NO JOKE. He said and I quote “You think it’s funny, XXX? You wanna fight me? Come on, I know ya wanna fight me – I’ll fight ya, come on, you chicken or what?” I mean, again this was in the hallway with witnesses no less. So because I wanted to take Shop I was publicly chastised.
And there is more – like the time a boy stopped me in the hall to tell me I couldn’t wear a mini-skirt and go-go boots and still be a feminist. I told him what people wear has nothing to do with what they believe.
So, my long rambling point is that there was and still is a very strong societal drive to push down anything that challenges the society and I think that is why people attack “feminists.” We frighten them and so they lash out. Sad really… but it hasn’t stopped me from expressing my views. | |
|
| What's up with all the hatred towards feminists?
Posted: 9/30/2008 9:38:19 AM | Katie: why are you so selective about what you want to be equal about, hmm?
If you're old fashion about how you date, why can't you be old fashioned about how you relate to men? Oh wait a minute - its probably because you like to have your cake and eat it too. Fine - you can do this - but don't expect to be taken seriously, as hypocrites rarely are. | |
|
|
| Page 2 of 11
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 |
|
Home
login 
