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 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 999
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Over for Mccain?Page 41 of 42    (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42)
yea ~ no policy ! ~


I'm sorry, but I just have to ask.

Dude, what's ~ up ~ with ~ all ~ of ~ this ~ annoying ~ crap ~ in ~ every ~ single ~ one ~ of ~ your ~ posts ~?


~Now that the embers are still smoldering from the fire~

Obviously, some people refuse to acknowledge~that some other people have a certain flair in their writings.... a signature

I'll concur , it's amusing to me to find it so annoying to someone else. ........

........and I can't quite help but savor the moment.

BTW, according to a recent concensus of the people, it's about time to start learning from others instead of tooting your own horn all the time. WERD UP

Oh and..... Navigator, "Bristow", (VA) (profile) is actually spelled "Bristol"
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 1000
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/8/2008 6:45:15 PM

Oh and..... Navigator, "Bristow", (VA) (profile) is actually spelled "Bristol"
Oh dear ... is it also over for Navigator6? I mean if he doesn't even know how to spell the name of the town he's from ...

As another poster pointed out ... McCain very profoundly said that he knows how to find Osama bin Laden. I wonder if he's gonna share that with someone anytime soon? Not that I think that's so very important at this point.

I honestly think Bin Laden is already dead and McCain just said that off the top of his head ... thinking maybe it would get him some votes? Who knows, but I think for the most part it made him look rather silly. Like anyone who could make a statement like that and really follow through ... would just sit on that information until they become President of the US?

We all know that he is quite a patriotic person (at least I think that's something we can assume). That's another reason I don't think he really meant what he said because I can't imagine that being the patriotic person he is ... he would just sit on that kind of information and not do something about it ... eh?
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 1001
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/8/2008 8:00:37 PM

In a way it would feel very good to run about gloating to those who have been quite hurtful and said some very ugly things in this election process.


Yes, I understand that it would feel good. And it would seem that there are quite a few of you on here doing exactly that at the moment. I wonder if these are the same people that go running to the mods to "report" many of us for "flame baiting," etc on a regular basis. I see an immense amount of flame bait going on for the last page or so and so I simply had to wonder if some of these flame baiters are directly responsible for getting others in trouble or banned, while they do the very same thing! How freaking ironic is that? lol.

McCain has moved on and so have those of us who were siding with the candidates who lost this election. It is so over. Perhaps the rest of you should move on as well instead of hanging about gloating and flame baiting those of us on the right. Hmm?


 Charlemagne08
Joined: 8/14/2008
Msg: 1002
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/8/2008 11:03:15 PM
I guess our President Elect's new website is still a work in progress; the link I provided earlier to the "suggestion box" is no longer valid (the page was removed). This one is working, however:

http://change.gov/page/s/yourvision
 serendipiteee
Joined: 5/30/2006
Msg: 1003
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Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/9/2008 1:19:03 AM
msg 988:
For your edification...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/sheehan.asp
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 1004
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/9/2008 10:35:10 AM
It is so over. Perhaps the rest of you should move on as well instead of hanging about gloating and flame baiting those of us on the right. Hmm?

Erm...

I doubt the forums are going to close their doors now that the election is over.
And far be it from me to suggest the rightie-tighties would humbly drop the issues, had McSame and Failin won. Geez. Doubtful. VEWY doubtful.
We wouldn't hear the end of it. EVER!!!

Look, months of debating, massive amounts of mudslinging, and insurmountable heights have been achieved in this election. It simply isn't fitting to just turn and walk away.
So, in response, NO.
The cajoling will continue.
It's the downside of losing

(just kidding Lass)

I know, so many had hoped we'd continue the Bush "white supremacy" dynasty, but..... it had to end.
Time to go forward in a new direction.
 ronjo58
Joined: 2/10/2006
Msg: 1005
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/9/2008 1:57:43 PM

I know, so many had hoped we'd continue the Bush "white supremacy" dynasty, but..... it had to end.


Thanks for reminding us, why we are republicans. Not because we are white supremists but because we are the party that supported and helped gain civil rights for minorities. Somehow liberals invade the Democrat Party and assume that they were the ones that fought so hard for the civil rights that people enjoy today. Nothing could be further from the truth. You missed the fact that I reached out for unity and hoped that we could find it somewhere in here and progress to a better World. Fine, if none of you will have it,except one person in the room that thought it a good move, then so be it. However, you will have to stew in your own pot of hatred and mean spirited rheotoric. As of this moment I am out of here and have nothing further to offer to those of you who won't let go. Good luck with the attitudes and the separtist agenda you support. I said I will support Obama as President and I will, even though I believe McCain to be the better man. Enjoy your crowing over your so called victory and savor it while you can. Adios!
 slysterling
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 1006
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/9/2008 2:19:54 PM
"""... I reached out for unity and hoped that we could find it somewhere in here and progress to a better World...Adios!"""

Good luck to you ronjo. If you want i can give you a link to a couple of poker rooms where most of last years (2007) posters are hanging out until this cycle we've seen take over in here the last 90, 100 days cycles it's way thru. It's just a cycle, but i can't drag them back in here for trying. It's just gotten too lame in here for the most part.

Take care of yourself. We've had our differences but you've pretty much always been a guy of respect. Good luck with that new party you're trying to get off the ground.
 dancecard
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 1007
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/9/2008 7:54:06 PM
agreed ~ hang tough and keep your power dry.

I think Obama will supprise us all ~ in a good way. ~

I didn't like the 750 billion bail out ~ I think they should have let the house of cards fall ~ if it hair lipped the devil himself. ~ You got to let your children fall on their ass , as hard as it is to watch ~ it hurts you too! The effects would have been global, things I really know little of ~ so I guess it was the right thing to do. ~ I'm lost with it!

Now the auto industry is scratching at the screen door, wanting in.

It's hard knot we are looking at. ~ I'd cut it out! ~ Detroit need to make some big changes first. ~ This flex fuel engines that South America has already got for one.

Normally, nobody like change ~ nobody! ~ but it's time for it ~ Obama promised it and the people embraced it ~ sooo ~ things were pre-tty bad for that to happen.

Seems~ some fear it to be a social change ~ the black man getting a leg up by shear virtue of race ~ if I feared that ~ I'd never supported Obama. The black man will be the one to change more then any of us ~ his excuse to underacheive is gone. He now be da man. No more a victim of life circumstances. Perhaps with new found hope and instilling of personal responsibilities and family conmittment ~ our jail population will start to thin out. ~ That always been a hudge load for socity to carry.

While those changes are important ~ there is much greater changes ahead ~ I see a building boom like we've never seen before. I see great things in our future as a nation of free people.

Dance
 rayzrsharp
Joined: 7/29/2008
Msg: 1008
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/10/2008 12:23:39 AM
DANCE...

The black man will be the one to change more then any of us ~ his excuse to underacheive is gone. He now be da man. No more a victim of life circumstances. Perhaps with new found hope and instilling of personal responsibilities and family conmittment ~ our jail population will start to thin out. ~ That always been a hudge load for socity to carry.


THIS is what the MAJORITY of my BROTHA'S and SISTA'S are hoping for. I can't tell you since tuesday how many times I've had this discussion. This is THE HOPE! Obama's presidency puts a MUCH NEEDED BURDEN on US in the black community which is...
GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER! No more excuses!! This has been preached in the black community since Martin and Malcolm. But was always coupled with the REALITY of racism. Example: I had a friend tell me when I was accepted into a pretty prestigious college that I was WASTING MY TIME and MONEY going to college. WHY? Because and "The white man ain't gone give you a job ANYWAY! No matter HOW good your grades are. Period. THEY NEVER want a black person to advance, because they are afraid we might take over and do what they did to us. So, why bother." Suffice to say I was saddened and pissed at this defeatist attitude. But believe it or not thats what a lot of black folk INHERENTLY felt. See, in our community, if one person sees that someone else can do it be it sports, medicine, entertainment and now POLITICS its an IMMEDIATELY engrained REALITY. Oh shit, if he can do it, so can I!!

The tears seen by black news anchors and entertainers was a RELIEF and SHOCK that WHITE AMERICAN did the RIGHT THING for the RIGHT REASON which is LOOK PAST RACE and chose the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB. Its still, pretty overwhelming... the LOVE witnessed world wide brings tears to my eyes even now. 60% of white America said, this is the best man for the job. Wow... everyone should be EXTREMELY PROUD. EVERYONE!

None of us saw this coming. All my friends, family members etc... not one of us IMAGINED we'd see in our life time a black president. Simply didn't think it was possible. NOW that we have seen it come to pass the BURDEN has shifted RIGHTFULLY so to US as a community to get up and strive to be the best we can be.
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 1009
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/10/2008 12:55:54 AM
Wow..great post, Ray. Seriously, that was touching.
 dancecard
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 1010
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Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/10/2008 6:28:22 AM
THIS is what the MAJORITY of my BROTHA'S and SISTA'S are hoping for. I can't tell you since tuesday how many times I've had this discussion. This is THE HOPE! Obama's presidency puts a MUCH NEEDED BURDEN on US in the black community which is...
GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER! No more excuses!! This has been preached in the black community since Martin and Malcolm. But was always coupled with the REALITY of racism.


Thank you ~ RayZ for validating my personal thought on this matter ~ I feel it was something thought by many yet never spoken out loud for fear of racial overtones, just a place ~~ we didn't need to go~ at that point in time!

Being a non -black~ I can only feel, I attempt to understand my black brothers' position. There is a LOT of bl;ack folk out there ~ doing right and being right ~ but being dragged though the mud everyday by the ones that have slipped through the cracks ~ large cracks of our socity. ~ It's not hard to do! even for myself ~ These cracks eat people of all colors ~ but do favor the black community ~ validating this bigotry and racism. ~ This is but affirmed programing ~~ programing can change. ~ A bigot can not see the bias of their programming ~ they are not attempting to be mean spirited but protective , Racist see validation every day.

This has got to stop ~ if this monster is not feed ~ it will die of starvation. Everyone of us has their part to play. ~ Obamas' mother played hers ~ Obama and Michell are playing theirs ~ MLK, Jessie ~ and Rev. Wright and countless other that came before ~ all played their part for us to get to this point. Let us take advantage of it and rid ourselfs of this self defeating hatred. We can expect disapoinment and failures but lets not waiver in our resolve.

We as a nation ~ have much to do! This is but an internal drain we need to overcome.

You and I both ~ can find joy in that the majority of the nation has spoken on this matter, ~ we have a mandate ~~ let us make it so.

Dance
 cpfstock
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 1011
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/10/2008 11:18:40 AM

Charlemagne08,
"I guess our President Elect's new website is still a work in progress; the link I provided earlier to the "suggestion box" is no longer valid (the page was removed). "

That ain't the only thing that's gone. Have you been to the change.gov website today?
Gone are the promises on how an Obama administration would handle 25 different agenda items - everything from Iraq and immigration to taxes and urban policy. Now there just a rambling paragraph about "fixing" stuff.
If that web addy doesn't work, you might try, hoodwinked.org

 Navigator6
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 1012
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/13/2008 3:32:59 AM
Oh and..... Navigator, "Bristow", (VA) (profile) is actually spelled "Bristol"

Umm, NO. The venue is called the Nissan Pavilion in BRISTOW, VA.
Here's a link to verify.
http://eventful.com/bristow/venues/nissan-pavillion-/V0-001-001487524-2

BTW, according to a recent concensus of the people, it's about time to start learning from others instead of tooting your own horn all the time.

So, did YOU learn anything from the 1st part of my post?? Like, maybe to do your research before you start questioning the accuracy of other peoples information?

I'll concur , it's amusing to me to find it so annoying to someone else.

There's a term for people who derive enjoyment from annoying others, but for the life of me, I can't think of it right now...
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 1013
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/14/2008 8:00:29 PM

Thanks for reminding us, why we are republicans. Not because we are white supremists but because we are the party that supported and helped gain civil rights for minorities.
Geez, where must I begin. Ok, first, having been raised in a very fundamentalist Christian church since birth, and very active in church functions, etc., I witnessed the tides changing with regards to which party favored blacks. While some notable democrats were responsible for illustrating bigotry in years past, those demographics have changed over several decades. Now, if the republicans were responsible for changing the level of opportunities for, say, blacks, why, then, were less than 2% of the republican primary/campaign delegates blacks? Rather stark, really, the numbers (or lack ) of blacks in the republican party. SO, it's with a crunchy grain of salt that I make those remarks.

You missed the fact that I reached out for unity and hoped that we could find it somewhere in here and progress to a better World. Fine, if none of you will have it,except one person in the room that thought it a good move, then so be it.

There's still time for some hand shaking, but....let's face facts...we're still under President Shrub, a lot of people are still sore, and some are sleeeping in cars, ..... while we ride out this administration. So, if you'll try to "firgive" my dripping sarcasm, my point was that I wouldn't expect people to just drop their sword. Less than two week from election day, I dare say, we're strongly divided, and I think we can look at the present admin as to why that is, as they were the ones who jumped in bed with religious platformers, thus entrenching that division.
Having campaigned AND supported Obama, since 2007, it's been a very long, trying, anxious election, and you'lll forgive the fact that, like any strong competition, the flavor of winning tends to linger long after the final bell. I think it's admirable for someone to reach a hand across the line once the tally is read, I'm sure there are many who are, and I believe Obama is focusing on having a less narrow-scripted cabinet and policy than we've seen this past admin. Yet, this has been one of the most fought after of elections, and it's hard to forget some of the past battles. I remember attending a vigil for the fallen soldiers in Iraq, to Stop the Iraq War Funding, and I remember the vicious comments the "pro-war" croud shouted as they passed by in their cars; I remember my daughter telling me the things she heard while campaigning for Obama in Va, and it strikes me as odd how hateful some are, especially those who stand behind their Bibles.
There's no stewing of pots here, and if there's a mean-spirited side of the fence, I know which side it's on. I'm a little more mouthy and more sarcastic than a lot of democrats, but I still dont' have a thing on Bill Mahrer.

Good luck with the attitudes and the separtist agenda you support. I said I will support Obama as President and I will, even though I believe McCain to be the better man. Enjoy your crowing over your so called victory and savor it while you can. Adios!

Well, enjoy the victory, we shall. However, (and I'm repeating myself, here) if there's separatist agendas at play here, you can say thank you to the party you support. Which is why so many dems are acting so glibbly right now. We're actually tired of the partisanship associated with Shrub/Cheney. And we'll enjoy making history. We're going to show others how it's supposed to be done. And I'm sorry if my loyalties for Obama, and the long-fought victory, translate into sarcasm or direct accusations of racial supremacy. AS unfortunate as this may be, not everyone (yes, me) is bestowed the polical correctness we find in mainstream media. My intentions weren't to label all republicans as racist's, but to bring awareness to the fact that they need to reach out to more blacks or other ethnic groups and to sympathize with them as people, without regard to color, in order to really apply an EOE posture. The unspoken is often more profound and true than that which is spoken, and the republicans (I believe) have to rethink their agendas; if they're truly in support of blacks, as you suggest, their numbers certainly do not suggest such.
 ronjo58
Joined: 2/10/2006
Msg: 1014
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/16/2008 5:04:27 PM

Geez, where must I begin

Say what? You honestly think this was all about you and your support of Obama?
I have often said that i will support any US President and I will support and pray for Obama, now that he is elected. Does this change my politics? No way Jose!
The holier than thou attitude needs to jump out the window along with the arrogance there partner.
There are one heck of a lot of Republicans that did vote for Obama. Not I, of course because I know Obama and the black caucus to be largely to blame for the financial meltdown that ironically got him elected. Not all the blame lies there of course. There were some greedy Republicans in that too. The fact that Republicans supported the bailout got them kicked out of office too. But for the better part I do blame the Democrats for what has happened to our nation. I can name quite a few Democrats that wanted a war with Saddam in a most desperate way. Including the Clintons, Madeline Albright, John Kerry, Bob Graham and others which I could name easily.
You call President Bush a name that isn't his, because you jumped on a glory train that
hates him. Personally I know Bush has done a heck of a job protecting this country and
its Citizens. History will bear that out despite the criticism he has endured.
As far as reaching out to minorities, Democrats do not have a great record of doing that at all. Unless it became a convenience to do do so. Which of course it has very lately. That is because Democrats have stopped being conservative and have been hijacked by socialistic liberals. It certainly was not to you personally that I offered a handshake to. It was to all that still believe in what America stands for. Unity and the beleief that all men were created equal. What you become after that creation,is what counts though. I know this post will be deleted more than likely but that is ok as long as you read it. I will not be back. I have no clue why I am here now. It is a waste of time.
 VVendy
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 1015
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/16/2008 5:14:40 PM
Just to get back to the subject yes it is over for McCain he will not run again for president and I hope that as the R Sen. of AZ he has a smooth and fun ride til he wants to leave Washington. I liked him I never thought he would be a good man for the lead position but I wish him well and hope he was not blowing smoke when he said he would help Obama.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 1016
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/16/2008 8:05:56 PM
I will not be back. I have no clue why I am here now. It is a waste of time.
Why are any of us here, and when did it ever become anything more than a waste of time. (?) The only reason I post is because I have some free time, not because my opinions are going to change a thing or win an election. But, it's definately a waste of time since I could easily justify doing something more productive.

But for the better part I do blame the Democrats for what has happened to our nation.
See, this is the part I can't fathom. 20 of the past 28 yrs have been under republican rule, and Congress only went heavily democratic in 2006. So, it's with an amusing grin that I read the democrats are (somehow) to be held responsible for the collapse of the financial markets. It's just..... there's a baseless red herring argument in there somewhere. Sure, a democrat (or even many) had his or her hand in some wrongdoing along the way.... but Reagan started the whole deregulations era by firing the aviation/air traffic controllers and basically waved the finger at any union based organization.
I didn't jump on any train that hates Bush, shit, I fueled the engines that ran the train, and did my part to piss off the right wing. I oiled the wheels, made sure the gauges were working properly, and I've stood by and watch in disgrace as this Country has been brought to it's knees. I've never liked Bush or Cheney. They'll go down as the worst political administration this Countries ever seen and they may stand trial for Impeachment or war crimes if I have anything to say about it.
You speak of socialist liberals..... what about the dictatorial styles of Bush/Cheney. It was their way or the highway. There's never been a more divisive group in the White House.

I know Obama and the black caucus to be largely to blame for the financial meltdown that ironically got him elected

CNN has a Most Wanted Board, the ten most wanted, responsible for the meltdown, among them was but one black person.( CNN is still coveted as the most trustworthy news network.) So, all I can do is laugh when a McCain supporter hopes to poison the waters by saying it's largely the blacks on wallstreet who are responsible. That's just a very careless, irresponsible and innaccurate assertion.

Personally I know Bush has done a heck of a job protecting this country and
its Citizens. History will bear that out despite the criticism he has endured.
History already has bore out that, since Pearl Harbor, our soils have never been so heinously attacked, except....... under Bush/Cheney.

I have to wonder if a lot of republicans missed the memo on the Bush Families ties to the Saudi Royal family, namely, the Bin Ladens, and that 14 of the 18 hijackers were Saudi's. . And it further astounds me how they claim we're safer under Bush. Ermmm.... the truth is, Osama Bin Laden is still alive BECAUSE of the Bush family. The war in Iraq, a Country that had N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with the attacks on 09/11/01, is a very dissuading appeal for solutions. It's nothing more than a smoke screen, a convenient diversion from the the truth. If Bush wants to stop "tear"ism, why doesn't he kill Osama Bin Laden, as Obama proposes to do? While we "occupy" Iraq, Bin Ladens safely sleeping in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan. Interpol, the CIA, FBI, and the US military, with all it's intelligence-could find a particular fruit fly, on a Bangladesh coffee house wall, at 3 am. They could find and kill Bin Laden if they chose to do so, but the ties to the Bush family are what's keeping him alive. And the "occupation" of Iraq is nothing more than a convenient, albeit lucrative, diversion. It's payback for Saddam's criticism and threats on Bush 41. It has absolutely nothing to do with national security.

The world at large has a very contemptuous attitude towards America right now, but given the response many Countries have shown, that sentiment is quickly about to Change. World leaders are already heralding Obama's taking office, largely because he's not showing a stiff-armed foreign policy like we've come to know. The Cowboy-shoot-em-up foreign policies will soon become history, and this Country is going to return to a better place to live. We'll be feeling the effects of Bush long after his departure, there's immense work to take place, and the 10 billion a month that's being funneled through Iraq and into the pockets of republicans will soon end.
Our lives are not all about war. War is not peace. We do not gain freedoms and liberty through fighting and killing in other third world Countries. Because we have troops in Iraq does not mean we're any safer here, and it's a bona fide mistruth to suggest we're safer under Bush than another President. That's categorically wrong, and Bush will continue to endure said criticisms long after leaving office. If anything, we're less safe now, now that we've really stirred the pot in the middle east, waving our nose at Iran.
No one died and made the US the worlds police force, and it's not our place to do so.

I'm not sure why any of us are here, but I have noticed a sharp decline in the presence of many who I used to run across here. Seems everyone's heard the news over the election so there's very little to discuss at this point. Obama's in, Bush/Cheney are out, and McCain can finally take Cindy on that vacation down in Guam. Palin can go back to fighting her cause for special needs children and we'll all forget about these forums for a while.

We clearly see things much differently, but that's water over the dam, now, and we'll just have to wait a while and see how things improve with Obama. I would hope some intelligent people might see the end coming for republicans and find some other resources to get involved with instead of continuing the battle. Hillary once said republicans were facing political extinction, and this election did little to disprove her predictions. With a potential "Super Majority" in Congress, I'd say it's time those still in support of republican ideology start rethinking, fall back and punt the ball, and realize it isn't about one party, but rather, it's about being united, something I fail to visualize under a MCCain administration. Since 2000, we've endured some tremendously bitter battles in Washington, and we've become divided more than we've ever been. It's over for McCain, but more importantly, it's over for republicans. And I'm sorry to say, it's been the Cowboy politics of Bush that are largely responsible for that. That's what history will bare out and it will also bare out that Obama, and his administration, will be responsible for mending the fabric that once bound us so tightly in years past. That's my opinion, anyway, and we'll have to wait and see what comes in the next few years.
Best wishes Ronjo, if we dont' see you again.
High Regards
Mane
 serendipiteee
Joined: 5/30/2006
Msg: 1017
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/19/2008 10:36:45 PM
We haven't seen the last of him... McCain decided Tuesday night (11/11/08) to set up a political action committee, a step toward running for a fifth Senate term in 2010.

To msg 1043, specifically "Bush has done a heck of a job... History will bear that out..."

FYE - "George W. Bush's presidency appears headed for colossal historical disgrace."~Sean Wilentz

Indeed, appears is the operative word and no one can know how history will judge, but it's not looking too promising...

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/story/9961300/the_worst_president_in_history
Barring a cataclysmic event on the order of the terrorist attacks of September 11th, after which the public might rally around the White House once again, there seems to be little the administration can do to avoid being ranked on the lowest tier of U.S. presidents. And that may be the best-case scenario. Many historians are now wondering whether Bush, in fact, will be remembered as the very worst president in all of American history.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/04/hbc-90002804
“It would be difficult to identify a President who, facing major international and domestic crises, has failed in both as clearly as President Bush,” concluded one respondent. “His domestic policies,” another noted, “have had the cumulative effect of shoring up a semi-permanent aristocracy of capital that dwarfs the aristocracy of land against which the founding fathers rebelled; of encouraging a mindless retreat from science and rationalism; and of crippling the nation’s economic base.”

America’s historians, it seems, don’t think much of George W. Bush.

Now in all fairness, historians should wait a while before passing judgment on a president’s who served recently, much less one still in office. But the current incumbent is a special case. After all, 81 percent of Americans, according to a recent New York Times poll, believe he’s taken the country on the wrong track. That’s the highest number ever registered. The same poll also says 28 percent have a favorable view of his performance in office, which is also in Nixon-in-the-darkest-days-of-Watergate territory.

But, as George Mason University’s History News Network reports, the historians have a different measure. They want to stack him up against his forty-two predecessors as the nation’s chief executive. Among historians, there is no doubt into which echelon he falls–his competitors are Millard Fillmore, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, and Franklin Pierce, the worst of the presidential worst. But does Bush actually come in dead last?

Yes. History News Network’s poll of 109 historians found that 61 percent of them rank Bush as “worst ever” among U.S. presidents.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070226/howl
It's also too early to tell, but if first signs mean anything, he has got a lot to answer for. We know he is responsible for the death of a lot of people who never hurt him or us. We wonder if he has so disturbed the entire Middle East quadrant of the globe that years and years may pass while the people there and the people here suffer for what he has done. Will we get habeas corpus back? Will the thumb screw become standard operating procedure, or will it be returned to the Middle Ages whence George Bush found it?

One of the criteria for being worst is how much lasting damage the President did. Buchanan, for instance, did more than words can convey. With Bush II the reckoning is yet to be made.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101509.html
Bush has taken this disdain for law even further. He has sought to strip people accused of crimes of rights that date as far back as the Magna Carta in Anglo-American jurisprudence: trial by impartial jury, access to lawyers and knowledge of evidence against them. In dozens of statements when signing legislation, he has asserted the right to ignore the parts of laws with which he disagrees. His administration has adopted policies regarding the treatment of prisoners of war that have disgraced the nation and alienated virtually the entire world. Usually, during wartime, the Supreme Court has refrained from passing judgment on presidential actions related to national defense. The court's unprecedented rebukes of Bush's policies on detainees indicate how far the administration has strayed from the rule of law.

http://hnn.us/articles/48916.html
HNN Poll: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
“As far as history goes and all of these quotes about people trying to guess what the history of the Bush administration is going to be, you know, I take great comfort in knowing that they don’t know what they are talking about, because history takes a long time for us to reach.”— George W. Bush, Fox News Sunday, Feb10, 2008

A Pew Research Center poll released last week found that the share of the American public that approves of President George W. Bush has dropped to a new low of 28 percent.

An unscientific poll of professional historians completed the same week produced results far worse for a president clinging to the hope that history will someday take a kinder view of his presidency than does contemporary public opinion.

In an informal survey of 109 professional historians conducted over a three-week period through the History News Network, 98.2 percent assessed the presidency of Mr. Bush to be a failure while 1.8 percent classified it as a success.

Asked to rank the presidency of George W. Bush in comparison to those of the other 41 American presidents, more than 61 percent of the historians concluded that the current presidency is the worst in the nation’s history. Another 35 percent of the historians surveyed rated the Bush presidency in the 31st to 41st category, while only four of the 109 respondents ranked the current presidency as even among the top two-thirds of American administrations.

At least two of those who ranked the current president in the 31-41 ranking made it clear that they placed him next-to-last, with only James Buchanan, in their view, being worse. “He is easily one of the 10-worst of all time and—if the magnitude of the challenges and opportunities matter—then probably in the bottom five, alongside Buchanan, Johnson, Fillmore, and Pierce,” wrote another historian.

The reason for the hesitancy some historians had in categorizing the Bush presidency as the worst ever, which led them to place it instead in the “nearly the worst” group, was well expressed by another historian who said, “It is a bit too early to judge whether Bush's presidency is the worst ever, though it certainly has a shot to take the title. Without a doubt, it is among the worst.”
 Barbe1963
Joined: 9/30/2007
Msg: 1018
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/19/2008 10:39:25 PM

We haven't seen the last of him... McCain decided Tuesday night (11/11/08) to set up a political action committee, a step toward running for a fifth Senate term in 2010.


fyi, One sentence about McCain does NOT make your post on topic.....
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 1019
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/21/2008 9:10:57 AM
^^^^^^^^^^MCcains failure is, in large part, due to Bush's failed policies.
McCain would have done a far superior job than Bush, and had republicans nominated him in 2000, the republicans would be, as well as Americans at large, in much better shape now. Sorry, but I find it wholely appropriate to bring Bush's failings into light with regard to it being over for MCcain.
A glimmer of hope has emerged for MCCain....as Obama met with him this week to talk about his potentially working in Obamas cabinet. Maybe it's not over for MCCain yet?

I think a lot of MCCain, but his maverick brand of politics seems over the top, and we're much better off with a more tactful, diplomatic approach to presidency, the likes we're sure to see in Obama.
 Barbe1963
Joined: 9/30/2007
Msg: 1020
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/21/2008 12:28:53 PM
Mane, I agree with you, McCain's loss can be tied directly to Obama's brilliant achievement in tying him to Bush, right or wrong, McCain did not do a good job distancing himself from Bush, and guess what he lost. The presidential race is over for McCain and it baffles me why this thread is continuing, but hey, I'm continuing it myself, so what can I say. Personally I am glad that Obama met with McCain, and I thought both Obama's words about McCain were heartfelt and respectful, and the same about what McCain said about Obama. It's time for pulling together, both of these men know it, and why this forum still wants to continue to play the partisan card finger pointing bullsh1t is beyong me. It's really time to get over it!
 dancecard
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 1021
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/22/2008 9:28:48 AM
The republicans have reaped what they sowed.


We're all reaping, and there's more to come.


finally ~ you said something I could agree with!

Yes ~ the fight for executive privilage is on!

I'd like to see justice prevailed ~ but I'm torn wth the notion of wanting to move on and not waste much time with the past. ~

However! ~ there is much yet to come to light ~ and will requiring address ~

there money to recover! ~ there is presidence to "undo"

I have no knowledge of the new AG appointment ~ but he better be up to speed, he's going to be busy.

side note ~ why must the passegers of the car be responsible for where the car in's up!
if it wasn't for democrats ~ who would you have to blame? ~ I'm glad we can serve you is some way.

Dance
 dancecard
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 1022
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History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/24/2008 4:02:04 AM
I see it differently ~ It was McCains' to lose ~

the only baggage he had to carry was low approal rating of a setting President.

That was the only thing ~ he had no control of.

He played his hand wrong ~ listened to the wrong people.

And above all others, his was insulated and disconnected from the "people" knowing little about what they had already been truly put though ~ and the sarafices they had already endured under the current adminstration. This is evident with his campaign slogan alone, "Country First" ~ a reminder that was not necessary to those that have given their all ~ and was finding theirselfs with their backs to the wall and little left to give except their one vote! I found it infuriating and flew in the face of reality

McCain could have stepped up to the plate and been the Mavrick he claimed to be , what was the rank and file going to do about it? ~ Vote for someone else?

He could have been the Vanguard of the old GOP ~

It wasn't until the final two weeks of the campaign he even got on message and started talking like an able politican.

The powers behind this machine ~ under estimate Obama and the general condition of the nation and overestimated their position from the vantage point of their ivory tower. They knew they could beat the black guy! ~ Counted on it! ~ They acted like they were afraid of him ~ They attempted to make it know they wanted to run against Hilliary, they had a chance to beat her ~ hoping somehow ~ we'd send them Obama. ~~ We did ! ~ They got exactly what they wanted !

I heard someone say ~ McCain won the popular vote ~ I don't know ~~ Is that true?

They knew they could beat this black guy Obama ~ the campaign would not need to be about issue but character remember?

I only know the vote was much closer then I find comfortable with.

Dance
 Tom130
Joined: 1/24/2007
Msg: 1023
view profile
History
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 4/12/2009 9:36:19 PM
Lets don't even say yes to that question,,,, lets just say FEAR, it was,,, And Now You Know Why!!!!
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