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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/5/2008 2:00:49 PM | Perhaps someday they will be born again out of prayer and devotion unto logic and reason. After that they may learn empathy, which is why I teach.
I only hurt the ones I love. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/5/2008 4:57:35 PM |
Neither one of us asks enough questions because we have most of the answers. We should ask more questions.
Questions are better than answers. They're an open door. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/5/2008 5:37:21 PM |
Questions are better than answers. They're an open door.
Or better:
Are questions better than statements?
Which will open more doors? | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/5/2008 9:35:25 PM | Gary1949,
Thanks for gringing this information about Mellon Thomas. I have been aware of this diary of his experience for some time now and have kept a copy of it at hand for many years. I have personally used this manuscript and presented it to many who were near death and who were open to such information. I will be counseling a woman in the near future who is terminally ill from ALS and I plan to share it with her as well. A friend of hers has contacted me and asked for help in this matter as her terminally ill friend is presently asking the question "Why did God give me this illness?"
I found the Mellon Thomas material remarkable and probably one of the best near death, and after death experiences available. I belive there is someone named Michael Newton who hsa published the recordings of hundreds of NDE.
Added to that is the courageous physician Dr. Ian Stevenson of the University of Va. who has pioneered work in cultures in which reincarnation is not suppressed. The author of the book is a Tom Shroder, a journalist who was as skeptical as INTOART is about this subject, and possibly others like it, and who completed his investigation of Dr. Stevenson's work and whose opinion was turned by his experiences.
However, I remember working with a med-student back in the 70's who tried to convince me that NDE's are a natural physical phenomenon of the brain shutting down. Our arguments became legend in the hospital that employed us.
Further reference on this subject of NDE's and Mellon Thomas's experience is supported and can be found in the works by Jane Roberts via the Seth material as well, as Conversations with God by Walsch, and the material on a causalplane entity known as Michael published by Yarbro.
I realize that such material is considered hardly a source to back up such beliefs in the main, but the world is changing. The number of people in the population of the US who believe that reincarantion that occurs has reached nearly 75% if my facts remain clear.
There is another text that indicates how many more cultures than one would have thought accept reincarnation as a natural phenomenon.
In addtion to the wonderful material Mellon Thomas provided regarding his journey and the messages he brought back from his death, I was overjoyed to note the part of his work in which he was shown a great mandala which offered him a choice towards which religion he first desired to view his death through. I joined him in spirit in rejecting every one of them in favor of going ahead without such choice.
I am grateful for your bringing this topic to light. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/5/2008 9:36:57 PM | | Yea, I'd agree, you can get the same thing pretty much from smoking DMT, but without all the "I'm scared I'm dying" emotions. Well, if you freak out you might think you're dying. I'm almost certain that dying is like waking up in a strange place. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/5/2008 9:49:38 PM | It's always surprising at how much deference and respect is given to authors and skeptics, but not to the person who has had the experience. Always it's "more doors need to be opened," more questions, etc. People are really funny...
If someone claims to have one they're an embarrassing thing in the room best to be ignored or investigated to see if they're making money at it. The obvious answer is it takes a lot of courage to tell your story knowing that people will not listen or will mock, but you have to tell it any way if only to plant a seed that will eventually bring another consciousness up to the light. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/5/2008 10:27:01 PM | | The best thing you can do for a terminally ill person is to convince them of the afterlife. Period. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/5/2008 10:37:42 PM |
Yea, I'd agree, you can get the same thing pretty much from smoking DMT, but without all the "I'm scared I'm dying" emotions. Well, if you freak out you might think you're dying. I'm almost certain that dying is like waking up in a strange place. .
Actually, you can get it from some less intense herbs, but only if you are genetically pre-diposed. I have never done DMT, but I suspect it might be one of the chemicals. You might be a Shaman.
I wanted to tell you privately, but your email restriction would not allow it. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 12:52:54 AM |
I DO KNOW what it is like to be dead. If you had been dead, you would still be dead and not here talking about it! Death is not a reversable condition
jesus did it. ha.. ha.. just a joke..
You know Hans Jennings, proved that emotions and thoughts basically, affect how you percieve life and will it in to being so to speak. So it's not that it isn't possible, it's that to you it will never be, because you don't believe in it. And to be fair, how do you know what death is? have you been to the otherside? It could just be waking up in a strange place, meaning you're not dead. You may not exist among others that you once knew, but you're certainly not dead if that's the case. Just because you leave your physical body, doesn't mean you as a being are.
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 1:04:10 AM |
Yea, I'd agree, you can get the same thing pretty much from smoking DMT, but without all the "I'm scared I'm dying" emotions. Well, if you freak out you might think you're dying. I'm almost certain that dying is like waking up in a strange place. .
Actually, you can get it from some less intense herbs, but only if you are genetically pre-diposed. I have never done DMT, but I suspect it might be one of the chemicals. You might be a Shaman.
I wanted to tell you privately, but your email restriction would not allow it. {quote]
Well DMT is found in the pineal gland, and it is what triggers both your dreams and NDE. It's found almost in every living thing including most plants. Lizards are said to have a more developed pineal gland, so I'd really want to try and be a lizard in one of my next lives if possible, they might percieve life differently, and have better dreams haha. I have not tried myself DMT, I haven't had a chance to extract it yet, but it's definately something I want to do in the near future. I plan to meditate as I'm on it, I think it will make it a more honest and enlightening "trip".
About the shaman thing. I might be, I'm really just going and acting on what reason and logic I have. If I don't know someting, I try to understand it with the best of knowledge that I have. Pretty much just plugging in variables of information and speaking on reason more than anything else. The more you talk about something, the better you understand it. Even if you don't know it at first, it usually takes someone to tell you you're wrong to get on the right path.
I know what shamans are, and I could very well be the reincarnation of one, but I wouldn't know how to go about that necessarily unless I meditated on it, but I still think I'm quite far away from making any kind of progress like that in my meditations. Also I'm really into spirituality and the whole metaphysical stuff. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 1:13:35 AM | Thanks gottalight, but I believe I will keep working at it the way I have been. Its intuitive and natural and has worked for so me so well and so often. Reading some of your posts has left me cold. Your fear of evil and your reliance on a near fundamental view of the bible scares me.
Those of you who can't achieve connection with their higher selves except by smoking DMT well, keep smoking it, you might one day find your way.
I would express sympathy for those of you who don't get it save that I have already lived lives where I thought the way you did. Do not mistake this for arrogance, I do not perceive myself as better than you. Just drew some better cards than you in this life. So I will use empathy and feel for you in that for you it isn't happening in this life.
There is a cynicism and skepticism in some of these posts of yours and others that must be painful at times. Further, I hear stubbornness, and some of you are suffering from a goal of rejection at which, I might add, you are excelling at.
Okay, it's cliche time. I am going to use my best one here.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt. Got it? | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 1:28:10 AM | You know assumptions make an ass out of you not me right?
I know it goes differently that what I said btw.
For you to exclude DMT, is ignorance plain and simple. Because you view it as a drug that's all it will ever be to you. I can guarantee you will never experience the things you would on DMT doing anything else, especially with your knowledge spirituality that I assume of you.
That last post just turned out to be an insult to everyone involved, and maybe you should have worded it better but you completely tried to make yourself out to be better, subconciously or not.
There are no cards to life, life is about perception and perspective. There aren't any better ones or anything, we're all here to learn different things, after all we all chose to be here.
You claim that your way is natural and intuitive, yet your inexperience and disinformation of DMT is not. You may not need it, to get to where you want to go, but why do you want to stop there, there only so much inner progress you can make without the help of nature itself. And DMT is not something you do over and over. Most people only do it once save for those only looking to get high. On top of that, you visiting the etheral planes by meditating is triggered by DMT, it's all chemicals and equations if you want to get phsycial. But again it's about perspectve and perception. To other beings DMT could be considered a holy item. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 6:01:35 AM |
So you don't believe in relativism? Then you must believe in elitism. The elite "know" they have all the answers and if they don't "science" does.
Yet another false dichotomy. Obviously, those are your specialty. Now you are saying "it is either relativism or elitism". Well, you are wrong as usual because saying (correctly) that reality exists independently of our beliefs is not at all the same as saying that you (or I) know what that reality is.
Those such as yourself, who claim to "know everything that will happen" are the only "elitists".
Finally, you contradicted yourself at the end of that post. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 6:05:32 AM |
YOUR reality will be the way it is, you mean.
No. I neither stated nor implied that conclusion. Try reading the post again, this time with comprehension.
Reality is what it is. It couldn't possibly care less about our beliefs or perceptions of it. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 6:56:25 AM | My, my aren't you superior in your belief in nothing. You must then be that lump stuck in temporal reality, just eating, shitting, breeding and breathing. The sum total of which can only be described a meat suit encasing a consciousness that is for nothing more than marking time. How does it feel not to dream or be moved out of the scintillating reveries of your great achievements, but only for scolding those non-temporal minds that circle around you to settle down, dammit!
Fungus is more deep and mystical than you, intoart. At least doesn't take its information from stupid pseudo-scientific rags but gets nutrition from the organic substances of life and expresses itself honestly. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 7:28:49 AM |
At least doesn't take its information from stupid pseudo-scientific rags
Wow! Just when I think it is impossible for your diatribes to get any more idiotic, you come up with a zinger like that.
You are seriously referring to Discover, Scientific American, and Smithsonian as "pseudo-scientific rags"?! By all means, go enjoy your authoritative National Enquirer.
This will be my last response to you, as you are a complete waste of my time and effort. What a flake! | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 7:36:13 AM |
This will be my last response to you, as you are a complete waste of my time and effort. What a flake!
Whatever shall I do without my little ray of sunshine?  | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 8:10:20 AM | Its intuitive and natural and has worked for so me so well and so often. So are you one who speaks to the light, and takes?
Your fear of evil and your reliance on a near fundamental view of the bible scares me. Evidently you have difficulty reading, or make too many assumptions. I am so scared of evil that I not only would rush hell with bucket, I would do it with an eyedropper. As far my "fundamental" view of the bible, I am a Native American Shaman, not a Christian preacher. I sure that my fellow medicine men will have a good laugh at that one.
Those of you who can't achieve connection with their higher selves except by smoking DMT well, keep smoking it, you might one day find your way.
I believe you are implying that I smoked DMT. Should I mention that you obviously have a disorder? Maybe you need a new prescription on your glasses.
I wont mention that everything you said is known around here as "ad hominem" because I have been known to tell people when they have their head up their ass. Did you want to argue any substance or truth? | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 10:44:46 PM | Wow! Just when I think it is impossible for your diatribes to get any more idiotic, you come up with a zinger like that.
You are seriously referring to Discover, Scientific American, and Smithsonian as "pseudo-scientific rags"?! By all means, go enjoy your authoritative National Enquirer.
This will be my last response to you, as you are a complete waste of my time and effort. What a flake!
This is just what they do when they feel cornered. They strike out and run, "If you won't let me be the boss, well then, I'll just go play by myself or with other kids who think like I do." Wah, wah, wah....lol
It's because they feel uncomfortable thinking outside their shells like turtles...that hard shell of "facts" which keep changing each and every day,,, protects their fragile egos.
The only way they can rationalizse their own miserable and fragile lives is by striking out at what they fear....the unknown quantity. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 10:50:48 PM | I am not certain what you are implying about speaking to the light and taking. Perhaps you would prefer to be more clear. There are many ways to translate that.
A shaman then? You do not present yourself as one. Perhaps you are then. Besides, I wasn't only speaking to you. But I did think your responses were belittling the issue and discussion. Why then are you opposed to this notion regarding the Mellon Thomas paper?
I didn't imply that you smoked DMT, there was another who stated that they believed it a requirement. I have no idea what you smoke or don't. If you are a native American Shaman it is most likely that you do smoke concoctions and I have not redressed you for anything of the kind. But you must also recognize that one not need to smoke something to achieve a desired state. There was someone else who seems to believe that smoking DMT is a necessity.
You can mention that I have all manner of disorders all you like, you may claim my head is in all manner of spaces, these claims will make no difference to me. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 11:00:12 PM | Funny how you chastise me for making assumptions and then go on to make your own.
You know nothing of my view on drugs from my statements.
As far as insulting everyone, I thought I could hardly make a splash. Seemed like everyone was already very busy insulting everyone. I heard a lot of denial, I saw a lot of arrogance, stubbornness, attempts at domination, rejection and skepticism and commented as such. I hardly see how that broke any rules or insulted anyone. I further offered sources as places to enrich ones thoughts about the topic this group is about. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 11:11:38 PM | "The best thing you can do for a terminally ill person is to convince them of the afterlife."
I know there is more to it than that, but I agree that it is one of the important things to bring to their awareness. But I suspect her "religion" already allows her to believe in an afterlife. More than make her aware of it would be to help her expand her view of what that is. Don't you think?
Another effort is being made to aid this person in helping them get past the present need to see herself as victim and to blame a god of her understanding as the cause. Mostly this is about fear, as you must well know.
She will soon lose the ability to verbally communicate as muskuloskeletal control will fade. Nor has she shown any signs of being able to communicate by other means, though they may be possible.
Another concern I have is whether or not I am interfering with her choice. That is an additional consideration I have to determine.
As a shaman you must already know this. | |
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| Invitation to a new Philosophy
Posted: 10/6/2008 11:14:13 PM | Grayhearth,
I apologize if I mistook your context as all directed at me, but that ws the heading you used. If you change your direction, you should note it or quote it. When you post; right above the smilys, there is a cut and paste that creates a quote box. Like this:
This allows you to quote a previous post.
I usually start a post by cutting once, and pasting several.
I wasn't only speaking to you. But I did think your responses were belittling the issue and discussion. Why then are you opposed to this notion regarding the Mellon Thomas paper? I answered the OP and stated my reasons in post 63 where I quote the article directly. For you I only suggested that the afterlife was the single best concept to deliver to a terminally ill patient, and since you have denounced the direction of your attacks, I rescind my objections, and restate my position. Further I state that the grief of a terminal illness is reduced through knowledge of the afterlife. Of course, we are all terminally ill, just some more than others.
A shaman then? You do not present yourself as one. Perhaps you are then. I used to be a Libertine, but then I saw spirits. Not "the light," but spirits, and they answered questions. I was an ordained minister with no church. I learned from a Native American to "think with my heart" and became a Shaman. | |
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