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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/12/2008 12:16:55 PM | Surely Im shirley, I have no issue with your preference to date men close to you in age. It is, after all, the "norm". What's objectionable is your assumption of "dsyfunction" and "exploitation" in any relationship that differs from one that you would choose for you.
Yes, if all things were equal, there are things to recommend that people date within a few years of being the same age. In individual relationships, though, it's no longer "theoretical". It's about 2 people.
So long as both are adults, and there is no coercion, as for example a "boss" demanding sex from a woman desperate to keep her job, then why is that a problem for others?
So, yes, according to the mortality tables, I will die in 22 years, and my SO has 54 years left. If i die "on schedule", hopefully a heart attack right after we've made love, she will then be 4 years older than you are now. At that point, she'll be where you are now. So, while you spend however long it takes to "take things slow" to be "friends first", we are enjoying life together, day by day, sharing our lives, and sharing our bed.  | |
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TPNW
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Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 177 | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/12/2008 2:05:03 PM | | I agree with TPNW there are some men looking to have children so they won't want an older woman that is beyond that point. Which is why I personally make it important to point out that from the get go with any new possible significant other. For some it's not a question of if we want children its a fact we can't have any. That is true of even young woman that can't concieve for medical reasons. It may not be a want to factor involved but a medical reason the negates they can't. Saying I don't want children is a blanket statement which don't allow for those that want but can't. There are also those that can't have children of their own but would be thrilled to be involved with someone that has children from a previous relationship. Maybe POF should put those in the drop down list....lol So should menopause, infertility, and impotence figure into the age factors? Only in the sense that we all need to know how to be honest and forth right with one another. and the discussion goes on................. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/12/2008 4:39:02 PM |
What's objectionable is your assumption of "dsyfunction" and "exploitation" in any relationship that differs from one that you would choose for you.
especially when that woman is psychologically and emotionally damaged by the circumstances of her life.
I believe RM, that the above is what you refer to in the top quote. I think that we are all dysfunctional to a certain extent. I don't consider psychological or emotional damage to be necessarily a symptom of dysfunction.
I maintain my belief however that a man your age with a very young woman who may be completely unaware that she is simply looking for a safe and secure place, is being exploited by a man who does not consider that and chooses to promote a sexual relationship, even if it seems that she wants it.
So long as both are adults, and there is no coercion, as for example a "boss" demanding sex from a woman desperate to keep her job, then why is that a problem for others?
You make it very clear in many other posts on different threads that if a woman is not secure enough with her own sexuality to put out, that you move on. Can you really say then that there is no coercion in your relationship? Where would she go without you? Does she have any other 'as easy' options? Would you be there for her without the sex? If not, how does that demonstrate love? Your presumably established life is making things easy for her. Coercion of sorts. Would she choose to be with you if your home and financial assistance and security were not available?
If you die according to statistics in 22 years, the fact is that your SO knows that she will be devastated and alone provided that you are still together, which I believe, is highly unlikely. Chances are that your protection, mentoring and stability will help her to become healthy and independant, and then you will be alone. Will you be happy for her ability to move on or will you be heartbroken? Either way, someone gets badly hurt. Its' almost predictable. You didn't comment on that. It does no good to say that many relationships don't last that long anyway. That I think, is just using a negative to argue a positive, unless of course one or both of you is simply living for the moment, and in that case....is that love?
While you are sharing your bed with a woman, I consider to be a relative child in comparison to your age, experience, and individual profiles, I am enjoying company, and sometimes great sex with attractive, intelligent, and articulate men with whom I have first become friends, and with whom I share ideals, memories and experiences. One day I hope to meet a man my own relative age with whom I am friends, "first and foremost". We will work together to be the best we can be...together, for all of the days of our lives and because we are close in age, we are entitled to every hope that we will have long lives together. Our sex life will be second to that wonderful friendship, but so much better because we are best friends and soulmates first.
Those are my ideals. You are welcome to yours. I again remind everyone of the OP. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/12/2008 5:05:06 PM | Chances are that your protection, mentoring and stability will help her to become healthy and independant, and then you will be alone. Will you be happy for her ability to move on or will you be heartbroken?
I can answer that one, because I've been there. One of the differences in the dynamic between older/younger, and many more traditional peer to peer, is that, when I am in a relationship as I am now, my focus includes her growth as a person, and her future. So, yes, if she felt that she was stronger and better able to take on the world, I would let go, let her spread her wings and fly, and "be there", should she crash and fall.I'm not that "possessive", nor am I afraid of being "alone".
In fact, that very dynamic happened with us in May, 2007. We parted, she went off to try life on her own. I went out and found a relationship in July, with someone 10 years younger than me, and we lived together for awhile. The woman I'm with now, "checked in" with me, from time to time, as someone she knew cared about her, and I had no intention of us getting back together. I just wanted her life to be good. So long as I wasn't seeing her in person, I compartmentalized desire, and my focus was on her as a friend.
It was her idea to contact me in mid-June, to talk. It was her idea to move in 2 days later, and the dynamic now has a feel of "permanency" that wasn't there before. Much like the "if you love someone, let her go. If she comes back to you, she's yours" kind of thing.
She'll be going home to her parents for Christmas, in the Pacific Northwest, and her father will be coming back with her in January to meet me. They know of the relationship, and while not approving, are just glad that she's with someone who they know cares about her, takes care of her, and is good to her (their words).
I was, and would be, "there" for her, without the sex, but it wouldn't be a relationship. The fact is, that we do share a grand passion, and that's what makes it a relationship, rather than just being a friend.
Shirley, I am "ok" with living alone, and not having a relationship. The prospect of her being "ready" to move apart, doesn't frighten me. If that happens, I'll feel good for her, and good about the role I played in her life. For now, that doesn't seem likely anytime soon, but all any of us has in any relationship is "now". Projecting off into an unknowable future accomplishes nothing beyond diminishing the appreciation of what "is".
I maintain my belief however that a man your age with a very young woman who may be completely unaware that she is simply looking for a safe and secure place, is being exploited by a man who does not consider that and chooses to promote a sexual relationship, even if it seems that she wants it.
You know, that statement, when looked at carefully, comes awfully close to that moonbat, Professor McKinnon, who says that "all sex between a man and a woman is rape". We are talking about a 30 year old woman, Shirley. Feeling "safe and secure" with someone is normally considered a "good thing", a valid "reason" along with others to be attracted to someone. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/12/2008 6:17:59 PM | "Well, in a few years she can call you grampa and all her friends will too."
Grandpa is a man who has grandchildren.
An old man w/o grandchildren is called "old man" (like I will be, ie I do not consider being called "old man" nasty, but being called "grandpa" is) | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/12/2008 6:42:47 PM | well, i see the endless dialog is continuing as if no one has yet said anything of importance...
debate is one thing...it usually involves the exploration of ideas from different points of view and a willingness to acknowledge what is useful in the argument of the other party...ideally, both persons are enhanced by the exchange...
bickering is quite another form of...dare i say it...failed communications...it usually involves one or both parties ceasing to bring any new information to the podium...and of course, little common ground is identified for expressions of agreement...this situation benefits neither side...that's what i see happening here...
the OP presented a situation...various posters offered opinions to aid his decision making about his pending relationship...i posted my opinion around #47...
since then, the dialog took on a very different complexion...persons with little or no professional or medical training began telling us the psychology behind why young women allow such things to happen to them...little more than spreading unfounded urban myth...
when persons directly involved in these younger/older relationships expressed the benefits and positive qualities they experienced, it was as if they had not spoken at all...instead more demeaning and insensitive questions were asked...their presentation of contrary evidence was ignored and the same stale arguments were again offered...
that's where i get off this merry-go-round...
dialog is not about changing someone's opinion...it's about sharing ideas in the form of opinions, so that we understand how others view a particular situation...when new info is added to a mix, the dialog has new vitality...and ideally, its participants are enhanced with an expanded view that increases their understanding and awareness...
i've seen this process work well for decades...at times, i've seen it fail miserably...
continuing to proffer the same basic info, or one of its many variations, as a response to every piece of new data is not productive...we often see this tactic used in the political arena, when ideas are intended to deceive...it demeans the person seeking to maintain the dialog...because progress is not possible...
have fun guys...enjoy the merry-go-round... | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/12/2008 7:02:02 PM | Generally speaking, I AM looking for someone closer to my own age, although there are many out there within my range specified that I am NOT attracted to nor would I e-mail them after having viewed and read their profile. That is NOT to discount the potential & possibilities out there of someone considerably older than me, but I have to be honest & admit I am not ACTIVELY searching for someone ~10 yrs. older than me, (which seems to be a bone of contention with a few of those who have written to me that I have replied to.) To put it into perspective, I am sure most of you men in your 50's are NOT searching for someone in her 60's as a potential mate. A fellow e-mailed me awhile ago, & didn't seem to like my candor....I was 44 at the time, he was 55 & stated most people thought he was in his early 30's. I saw his picture....he looked every bit in his 50's! I went back to his profile & noticed that his age preference for a mate was 13yrs younger or up to only 2 yrs older than he was. He was not happy, nor did he have a good answer when (to prove a point), I referred to his age range criteria and candidly asked if he were seeking a 65 yr old woman. He replied that age was only a number, and just a criteria........to which I replied: "Yes, it is a criteria, & we all have our criteria"....some just easily take offense at other's criteria, & assume that that criteria must be carved in stone because it is in a profile. (Mine is NOT carved in stone). BUT.... If I am willing to compromise on some things, there will likely be something spectacular (in my opinion)within that person to make me flex a little in my criteria range. The gentleman, when all was said and done, stated he could see my point.
Yes, age CAN be only a number. When I was 33 I met a man who was 35 & acted & looked like he was well into his 50's. Near that same time I met a man who was 46 & did not look or act a day over 35. I just feel that those who tend to be honest (like me) in what they are seeking tend to be "chastised" for it. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/12/2008 7:05:41 PM | Many people act open-minded until it comes to this. If age is a factor with you, that doesn't mean it should be. It sometimes bothers women who break their marriage vows and find out they have few options, while the men they leave have many. Most American marriages end up in divorce- age has nothing to do with it. We shouldn't enforce our American customs on anybody.
In Russia, from what I understand, the common age difference is 15 years between an older man and younger woman. I've thought seriously of traveling to Eastern Europe, myself.
As you mentioned God- you will find many instances in the Bible of this (ie: Abraham and Sarah-25 years). When children come into the picture, many women are glad they found someone mature and responsible, and are usually able to stay home with their children and husband. Your faiths and commitment are more important than your ages. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/12/2008 7:08:49 PM |
I am sure most of you men in your 50's are NOT searching for someone in her 60's as a potential mate. A fellow e-mailed me awhile ago, & didn't seem to like my candor....I was 44 at the time, he was 55 & stated most people thought he was in his early 30's. I saw his picture....he looked every bit in his 50's! I went back to his profile & noticed that his age preference for a mate was 13yrs younger or up to only 2 yrs older than he was. He was not happy, nor did he have a good answer when (to prove a point), I referred to his age range criteria and candidly asked if he were seeking a 65 yr old woman
While that all sounds "logical" on a surface level, or an appeal to "fairness", it's irrelevant to human attraction. Some young women, in their late 20s are attracted older men, for reasons having to do with how they are "made up" emotionally. Those young women are not attracted to teenage boys, usually. The same for men. There are women, who are attracted to younger men, and those aren't the same women, who would be attracted to older men. The same is true for men.
It's a bit like arguing that women, who prefer men who are 6" or more taller than they are, should also be attracted to men 6" shorter. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 12:43:20 AM | I haven't read any replies yet, so my opinion could be the only one of it's kind, but I'll give it anyway..
I'm not real big on age differences, to a point. What I find disturbing, is when grown adults in their 40s and 50s lust over young girls that are not even of drinking age or younger than their own daughters. No offense, I just feel such a huge gap is wrong. Getting along and knowing what the other person is thinking means nothing. I am like that with my best friend and I sure don't want to sleep with her.
IMO, it is simply an older person trying to relive their youth and not want to grow up and the younger just looking for someone to support their good time. If you want to be a sugar daddy, that's great. But after she gets tired of you and meets a guy closer in age that she can start a family with, you'll be back here asking what went wrong. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 1:26:36 AM |
One of the differences in the dynamic between older/younger, and many more traditional peer to peer, is that, when I am in a relationship as I am now, my focus includes her growth as a person, and her future.
RM....although it seems that you have this lady's best interest at heart, how does this not feel like fatherhood to either one of you?
dialog is not about changing someone's opinion...it's about sharing ideas in the form of opinions, so that we understand how others view a particular situation...when new info is added to a mix, the dialog has new vitality...and ideally, its participants are enhanced with an expanded view that increases their understanding and awareness...
I believe that is what we are doing. Just because you and your SO offer your personal experiences as arguements for living in the 'now', does not mean that others need to agree and therefore the dialogue continues.
I just feel that those who tend to be honest (like me) in what they are seeking tend to be "chastised" for it.
If you express an opinion alternative to someone else's, then you must expect disagreement sometimes.
Your faiths and commitment are more important than your ages.
I agree. Its' the level of faith and commitment from each partner in this older versus younger scenario that I question. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 11:35:32 AM |
RM....although it seems that you have this lady's best interest at heart, how does this not feel like fatherhood to either one of you?
I suppose, Shirley, that you would have had to have been in an older/younger relationship, in order to understand one fully.
I have two daughters, 25 and 20, with whom I have a close relationship. I know what being a dad is. I also coached youth sports for 13 years, including high school baseball, Little League, and girls softball. There are some elements of parenting in coaching, I suppose, but I know the difference between being a coach, and being a dad.
In an older/younger relationship, there are some elements of "mentoring" in some areas of life, but it's not the substance of the day to day dynamic, and sexual desire and sexual delight, has nothing to do with mentoring, parenting, or coaching.
Even in some peer to peer relationships, and in the biblical model of marriage, those who want to find fault can find elements of "paternalism", where others see "protecting, supporting, and caring for".
The point is, if you are predisposed to find fault, you'll find a way to view everything about older/younger relationships from a negative perspective. Like someone else said, this discussion has become pointless and circular. Questions are raised, and answered by people, men and women, who are in older/younger relationships, and out pops another criticism. I don't get it, why it is that other people are negative about relationships between consensual adults, that seem to work for many who are in them. Statistically, there are fewer incidents of domestic abuse amongst older/younger couples, than for the overall population. Statistically, the divorce rate is lower. Yet some, hang onto their view that older/younger is "always bad", and will find reasons to validate that view, no matter how hard they have to look. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 1:06:09 PM | As men grow older it is in the natural order of things for them to pair up with younger women. Just look back in history. Of course, evolutuonary reasons form the basis for middle aged and older men's preference for younger women (women who appear to be fertile). The men who were drawn to infertile women, if there ever were any, left few or none of their genes in the gene pool.
I have been in nothing but older-younger relationships for well over a decade now. I can not even imagine (nor do I want to) what it would be like to be with a woman near my own age.
In my experience, the only people around me who seem upset or disturbed and even angry when they see me with a younger woman I am dating are women near my own age. They get a strange puckered-frown look on their face like they have something astringent and sour in their mouth. I chalk it up to envy and resentment. Older women, say 70 and up, seem happy with it. They light up smiles and say hello. Younger women don't appear to notice or seem to care one way or the other since most have dating lives of their own. Other men seem happy enough about it and some confide to me they wish they were so fortunate.
Whose business is it anyway? That of the people involved in the relationship and possibly society at large if a minor or person of reduced capacity is involved.
If the people involved are consenting adults and happily choose to be together it makes the world a better place. | |
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zeeba
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Joined: 8/31/2008
Msg: 192 | |
| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 1:21:02 PM | Well, having just gone through some very emotional ups and downs in my extended family...here's my take.
A number of years ago, one of my uncles met and married a woman 23 years younger than he. This was his third marriage, and her second. On paper, that doesn't look like a recipe for a successful relationship, does it?
It was successful. They had a good and happy marriage...and then, guess what? Six weeks ago, she passed away suddenly of an undetected brain aneurysm. Statistics might have shown that he would die before she...but you see, in reality none of us knows what is going to happen. Or, what is meant to happen.
Age difference? I don't pay a lot of attention to it. I've always tended to attract older men for some reason. On the other hand, I'm now getting called a MILF (and I don't even HAVE children...!)  I'm just hopeful that one day, I'll still meet someone who is as attracted and drawn to me as I will be to him. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 1:45:26 PM | | I do not find it disturbing because of envy, nor resentment. I find it disturbing because in a few years my daughter will be of age, and it's the thought of a man older than her father looking her up and down in a sexual manner that yes, is disturbing. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 3:41:15 PM |
I do not find it disturbing because of envy, nor resentment. I find it disturbing because in a few years my daughter will be of age, and it's the thought of a man older than her father looking her up and down in a sexual manner that yes, is disturbing.
It is understandable that you feel it is a deal breaker for you and therefore disturbing because of your own personal issue. You are commendable that you do not apply a sweeping judgment on those who feel it is not a deal breaker for them and are therefore in happy relationships. | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 4:57:32 PM | ...I find it disturbing because in a few years my daughter will be of age, and it's the thought of a man older than her father looking her up and down in a sexual manner that yes, is disturbing....
boy, do i have some news for you...are you sitting down?...
when i first met my honey in may of 07...she was 26 then...many of her friends and acquaintances were even younger...some as young as 19...as we hung out and partied and danced, i had some of her friends flirt with me, dance with me, and slyly proposition me...
i never acted on any of them but the opportunity existed...still, here's my thinking...younger, inexperienced women are looking for men who can deliver on whatever they think they want at the time...
for some, it's about getting that first sexual experience...for some, it's to feel a bit more worldly...for some, it's to feel much more sexy...the list could go on...i lost track of the times i heard, "if my mom ever found out about this..."
so, i know first hand that many young women are looking for just such adventures...of course, most of the time with guys their own age...don't overlook the fact that an older guy will have just as much appeal to them in a very different way...and the result will be the same...come on, mom...you were young once, right?
let me be a little clearer...while that older guy is looking, my experience says she'll also be looking back...
and mom will be the last one to know...
okay, somebody needs to get a pitcher of water to throw in mom's face...
ps...great song... | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 5:23:37 PM | Re posts 190 and 195:
The kast time I dated a woman in her 20s or less, I was in my own 20s or less, but as a matter of principle here is my opinion:
"...What I find disturbing, is when grown adults in their 40s and 50s lust over young girls that are not even of drinking age or younger than their own daughters. ...."
a) The age of adulthood is 18 for both men and women is matters related to voting, going to war, being legally responsible as adults in crimes, etc, is 18. That is when they go to college as well, as frosh and mingle with seniors!! Now, drinking is a big issue only in the US and that is a whole different and huge topic of US "kink", like the Prohibition (and recently the subprime loans), but these forums are not US forums.
b) Since I do not have a daughter, does that mean that no woman is younger than my own daughter's age? Thus we men w/o daughters it's more OK for us to date younger women?
"...No offense, I just feel such a huge gap is wrong. Getting along and knowing what the other person is thinking means nothing."
I am not sure I understand what this means. Does it mean that in older/younger rels they do not care what each other thinks????
"I am like that with my best friend and I sure don't want to sleep with her."
Again, I do not understand!
"...IMO, it is simply an older person trying to relive their youth and not want to grow up and the younger just looking for someone to support their good time."
Opinions are free, because we do live in a free world, ie most of this planet, where as long as one obeys the secular laws, one is free to do what she/he wants.
Having said that, assuming that all younger women interested in older men are looking for a sugar daddy is simply an opinion not supported by facts, is it not?
As per men or women not wanting to "grow up", what is legally or otherwise "wrong" with that? Who on Earth dictates/legislates what each age should act be or like, except in a "social dictatorship" society?
"If you want to be a sugar daddy, that's great. But after she gets tired of you and meets a guy closer in age that she can start a family with, you'll be back here asking what went wrong."
a) Golddigger can be found in all ages and both genders.
b) If I was dating a much younger woman and she left me to start a family with a younger man, I would say glad I was not that yoynger man. Because that man is chosen as a father material to her motherhood needs, not as a lover or "man". But I am not, I much prefer women my age or older, but it is a matter of principle!
Post 195:
"...I find it disturbing because in a few years my daughter will be of age, and it's the thought of a man older than her father looking her up and down in a sexual manner that yes, is disturbing..."
What I personally would find disturbing if I was a mother or father would be:
a) the % of younger men who refuse to use condoms and the young women who let them not use them. WTH did their parents NOT teach them?
b) the % of young women who get pregnant very young
c) the amount of women who still think they need a man in order to "be"
d) the ongoing financial and banking crisis, including the effect on college student loans!
e) the number of people who bought or invested in subprime, did their parents teach them nothing re finances/home ec?
and many other very disturbing issues!
But not the one in post 195!
It is called "ageism" (but it is not illegal in the North America and Europe, unless one is an employer of course)!
Why all the "fuss" if I am not actually dating younger women? Because in our societies we value not only the freedom we personally exercise but the ones we think one should if one wanted to! Thus adults to date who they want to.
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 5:30:04 PM | OP...thats just nasty and wrong...your kids are probably her age
you've lived 1/2 a lifetime already...she hasn't...
ask yourself...are you ready to start another family?..she will most likely want kids at some point...
you are suppose to be older and wiser..and not use that wisdom to manipulate an attention starved girl...shame on you! | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 5:37:33 PM | Re post 200
If an adult young woman likes older men because of craving for attention, the ones who are mainly to blame are her parents and the upbringing they gave her!
The rationale in post 200 reeks of social conservatism, IMO.
And who says she wants to start a family
and what a "family" in 2008 should be like?
If young adults are not mature enough to think for themselves who is to blame but their own parents and the deficient upbringing they were given from ages 1-18? Maybe the age of adulthood should be moved to 28? | |
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| should age differance be a deal breaker in a relationship
Posted: 10/13/2008 5:37:40 PM | | I dated a man 22 years my senior...he was wonderful and I adored him. Sadly it was a deal breaker because I wanted more children and he wanted none. If two people agree on lifestyle and can live happily together it might not be a deal breaker...it might work out fine. | |
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