| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/6/2008 11:50:04 PM | I don't know...things in general are somewhat cyclical - the weather, the seasons, planetary movements, certain business practices...But there are always the little things that invalidate cycles.
What got us into the mess was a long period of thinking "It'll come back - it always does", when it came to the higher-risk mega dollar investments.
I just wonder if those who rely upon a cyclical stock market take into account that in "crashes" of the past - economic conditions worldwide were a little different each time. This time though, inter-national economies are so intertwined, that we can't rely upon outside forces to balance out one failing economy, because they are all tied together.
What one, two or three events can you envision that will turn the current situation around, when all now know how fragile and vulnerable the system can be?
I hear people talking about buying now because they believe it's bottomed out. Based upon what? A gut feeling? Some secret oracle?
How far did the market drop in 1929 - percentage-wise?
Over a 2-month period, after a period of steady declines, the stock market (Dow Jones) in 1929 dropped a cumulative of 40% from its high during the period popularly called the 1929 crash. This includes that Black Tuesday, when stocks dropped 12.8% to trigger all-out chaos across the country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market_crash
In reality, it wasn't a sudden overnight event. It took months in the making...much like today's case. I do know that some months ago we were at 14,280 and today we are at below 9,955. That's 30.3% so far. If the Dow gets down to 8,570, we will effectively have experienced the same level of decline as in the 1929 crash, just over a longer period of time. The only thing keeping it from crashing have been half-hearted, unsuccessful attempts to artificially buoy the markets over more than the past year.
The "crash" took a total of 3 years of tentative ups and downs until 1932 before the bottom was finally reached and actual recovery started to occur. The Dow lost 89% of it's value when all was said and done. This was all with fairly unsophisticated investors who didn't have the data tools we have today.
Things haven't been "right" for 3 years now and only now have they come to a head, but I don't think it's nearly done. The Bernanke solution may have worked in 1929 with the unsophisticated investors of the day, but I don't think it will today - in fact the last two trading days prove it. The fact he's even trying it will completely alienate a huge percent of the population, making them ever-skeptical of the stock market in the future...having now experienced what their great-great-grandparents did 80 years ago.
That will just create a call for much stronger legislation and result in less participation - making a recovery even longer.
I think we could be looking for at least another 2 months of turmoil during which time the Dow could drop another 1,500-2,800 points (yep - to about 7,150 - if not MUCH further) before bottoming . The natural recovery period could well last 10-15 years just to get back to pre-crash levels.
I don't believe the country has anywhere near the resources to stomach that. People are already offing themselves and families in isolated incidents, in a macabre repeat of 1929. (Even some of my neighbors are looking less and less mentally stable as days pass.)
I'll go watch EUrope's market again now that it's been 24 hours...see how that goes. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/9/2008 4:03:39 PM | If the Dow gets down to 8,570, we will effectively have experienced the same level of decline as in the 1929 crash, just over a longer period of time. The only thing keeping it from crashing have been half-hearted, unsuccessful attempts to artificially buoy the markets over more than the past year.
Today the Dow closed down more than 600 points at $8,579.19 as a temporary ban on short-selling expired. Tomorrow, in the first second after the market opens, it will go below $8,570. (Actually worldwide Dow futures trading will bring it down below that overnight before the market even opens.)
When the Dow loses $9.19 more, we will have relived going through the 1929 stock market crash in terms of percentage of value lost. I then expect to see it drop to $7,150 within the following 48 trading hours. At that point, it will be too late to do a thing about suspending power of those orchestrating this giant manipulation of the country.
Why was the ban on short-selling allowed to expire? Who knows...arrogance?
Asian markets will see their weekend tomorrow, but I expect Europe may lose another 7-10%. Why did that short-term ban expire today of all days? Maybe to prevent a run on U.S. holdings from Asian investment markets, because TODAY was their Friday while we still slept and they won't be open again until Sunday our time.
That way, all the greedy short-sellers in the U.S. can take their profits and run, then do it AGAIN tomorrow (along with European traders). Just another day at the largest casino in the world. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/9/2008 4:34:33 PM | | I don't have any of the answers, heck I probably don't even have all of the questions! I do know this, I am really starting to get nervous, but the Dow at 7150?! I pray to heaven no! | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/9/2008 7:05:43 PM | | And to think, they were fighting to put all of the social security money into stocks. What would have happened then? | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/9/2008 10:05:05 PM | I am poor, always will be, I didn't have money in the markets. My lifestyle has not changed at all. I am used to having little to nothing. I do feel very sad to think somewhere tonight a family that tried to be responsible is sleeping in their car with the kids and maybe the dog and cat.
I feel so bad that a man feels like he can not support his family. Some people place a lot of " who" they are based on what they have. I have never had the luxury to be in that stance. I have always had to measure myself on who I am based on me, not wealth or waht I do for a living.
I hope in this time of great loss, everyone will remember, all that counts in this world is the love you have in your heart and the goodness you share with others.
Live life , give love and share happiness. The bastar*S can take our homes, money and jobs, but we are resourceful, we will find a way, don't ever let them take your spirit.
Thoughts of hope to all. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/9/2008 11:31:05 PM | I hope in this time of great loss, everyone will remember, all that counts in this world is the love you have in your heart and the goodness you share with others.
Live life , give love and share happiness. The bastar*S can take our homes, money and jobs, but we are resourceful, we will find a way, don't ever let them take your spirit
What way would that be?? Love and goodness in your heart is fine and dandy but it won't pay the monthly bills ... put food on the table ... nor will it fund your retirement. The guy at the gas station or grocery store would still like to be paid in cash ... he doesn't care how much love and goodness is in your heart.  | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/9/2008 11:45:45 PM | In no way am I saying " all you need is love", but I am saying their are some people out their in very bad circumstances. Some are taking their own lives. That is a very sad aspect to the reality of this.
Don't let the moment be stronger than your will to rise above this. Strenghten your resolve to overcome the ideas of old and forge them into new paths for sucess.
Of course I could be a real rat bas**rd and declare no hope for any of us, which do you think is better? | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/10/2008 7:11:13 AM | I agree with d lily...addie poke,the 90 yr old woman,who shot herself,because she was losing her house, how shameful that happened to her, where was her family,what 90 yr old woman,takes out a loan for 45.000.00,and gets 7.000.00credit loan, i think her kids or grandkids did that to her,needed the $$$,and then maybe they couldnt pay her back, and boom,the poor old lady shot herself,cause she was gonna loose her house....how sad!
TIMES ARE TUFF, RICH PEOPLE ,AND those who's house''s are way up in the hundreds of thousands,take your loss, start all over at the beginning,,,lick your wounds and go on!
i dont want to pay for your mistakes,i make enough of my own! | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/10/2008 9:03:12 AM | Now exactly what would happen if Key Global Players pulled back their MONEY all at the SAME TIME, The New World Order is a Team of Central BANKS
that controle GLOBAL CREDIT, not real money, but the currency is script, NOT GOLD and only GOLD is real MONEY
Of course, most of you know that the G7 Summit (Great 7 nations) is having a meeting this week end to discuss this issue. I'm certainly NOT predicting it -- but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they emerged with a plan for 1-World Monitorization. (Or at least a plan to sell us all on same).
All i know is im not getting a bar code put on my head(666)..ill starve first!
I'm with YOU! My forehead will be clean and clear -- and I'll be slim and trim!
_____________________________________________
Edit update! My friend just told me that there is disucssion of G7 nations deciding to close the markets. It's on Drudge Report -- even if you are a Progressive or Liberal this one's worth reading! I'm NOT saying this is really going to happen, but interesting anyway.
www.drudgereport.com
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/10/2008 10:29:39 AM | One World Currency. One World Power. One World President.
Did you all think I was kidding or what?
Once we're stupid enough to let this happen, the same b*st*rds who have had a strangle hold on the Federal Reserve operations will have the SAME stranglehold on worldwide operations and they will then field the same kind of "leaders" as they've been fielding in the United States. Instead of just trillions of dollars they will then be able to make TENS of trillions of dollars, and we're all just sitting here watching it happen.
World President Bush. Coming to an affiliated country near you.
Why do you think they've fielded such inappropriate candidates for the U.S. Presidential race this year? Because it really doesn't matter WHO wins that race!
Stopping world trade will be just like when Bush stopped air travel post 9-11. It will be imposed on everyone except his good, rich friends. While the rest of the world's finances are frozen, he and his cronies will be working their backroom deals and moving massive amounts of money to position themselves for maximum benefit once they turn the money switches back on. I told you Bush was putting out signals he was about to do another unprecedented, Bush-benefitting act.
That gives him about a month and a half to form a world government (which you can bet is already down on paper, I'm sure) and take his undeserved place on the throne.
It's now or never time - what has he to lose? Nothing. What has he to gain - everything! Literally everything.
You're about to see the boldest power grab in the history of the Earth and humankind, or the start of the biggest war in that same history, because there are billions of people who will not go along with this plan lying down. This man will get his world war yet.
Oh! And for years I've been wondering why Bush appointed Paul Wolfowitz - the architect of his war on Iraq, Iran and North Korea - to be the head of theWorld Bank???
Well, now it becomes all-too-obvious. This is NOT just "another" Bush-related coincidence in a long, long line of such "coincidences" under Bush. This means the Cheney-Wolfowitz-Rumsfeld-Bush connection hasn't gone anywhere...It's still very much alive and well, and scheming as always.
What qualification does a former Deputy Secretary of Defense have in running the World Bank? Answer: He'll do whatever he can from the inside to help reach the New World Order plan.
Suddenly this all becomes much less about money and much more about seizing absolute power. I guess what was good for the grandfather (Prescott Bush) - trading with the enemy and other self-enriching traitorous acts- is also good for the grandson. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/10/2008 10:52:59 AM | There's something drastically/terribly wrong when the CEO's of these mega-corporations (no matter who they are) are raking in millions & millions of dollars income PLUS a few milllion in Bonuses. And Guess Who's paying thier salaries?
It's obvious that the "Disguistingly Rich" have found the loophole (yet again!) It's obvious that these corporations are living off the backs of those who actually work for a living!! Making a living on the sole basis of Greed is certainly NOT a lifestyle to be proud of!
It's no surprise; The rich get richer and the middle-class to poor must work harder to maintain and/or to better thier lives.
The questions are; "What can we learn from this & what changes need to be done ? | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/10/2008 12:50:17 PM | I'm really worried about having too much money in one place. Have most in bonds My sister, who does the books for hubbie, self employed, thinks that money should be split due to insurance from banks. What does anyone else think about this? Am I worrying about nothing?
Should add that I'm not rich, comfortably off, money at mo would be for retirement. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/10/2008 2:06:44 PM | I have often wondered what would happen if "The People" just stopped 'buying' from them and dealt amongst themselves ONLY - on a one-on-one, face-to-face basis?
As they used to do for thousands and thousands of years prior.
It's like drug dealers feeding a world of addiction. Until their victims decide not to buy what they're selling and make their own hooch or whatever to sell to each other instead. Any profits made would be kept right there on the bottom tier.
Would they just dry up and go away?
Just musing...
I've just learned how to do 'copy/paste' here ....... what a clever girl!
I think the reality is that 'the people' did stop their personal interaction (in terms of finance) because they knew they were being exploited. This happened - even - in BC times (?).
What is it with 'human nature' that makes it ok to profit from another's downfall/adversity? Why can't we all simply work together - co-operate - for the greater good of mankind?
In general the Jewish do - despite their persecution - or maybe because of. I wonder why? What we have to 'learn' from the example - and whether we are capable of learning. I'm afraid I think not.
I'm not sure I accept your generalisation in terms of 'drug dealers' but I can 'understand' the underlying argument.
The simple fact is - we do not 'have' to believe what we are 'told' ......... whether this be by contemporaries/parents/govt/others (including drug-dealers). We can 'choose' ... but we have to be 'strong enough' to 'know/know how' and the child/young person has to have a strong/secure enough background to 'learn/grow'. How many do?
Your comments have encompassed a 'different/multi-faceted world'. That is the world in which we live. It is not 'wrong' ....... but it does mean we have to think/act beyond the box of me/mine. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/10/2008 2:12:35 PM |
I'm really worried about having too much money in one place.
I just called FDIC about the same thing. Best bet is to use a small bank that is FDIC insured and is NOT an investment bank.
The reason for that is that any small banks that go bad will be bought by larger banks before you even hear that anything is wrong. So, no waiting for days to get your money back from FDIC -- You'll just go to the bank one day, you'll have the same account #, but your same bank will have a different name. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/10/2008 2:52:06 PM |
"It's like drug dealers feeding a world of addiction. Until their victims decide not to buy what they're selling and make their own hooch or whatever to sell to each other instead. Any profits made would be kept right there on the bottom tier."
I'm not sure I accept your generalisation in terms of 'drug dealers' but I can 'understand' the underlying argument.
Hi SusieB,
Congratulations on the cut-and-paste! :)
Regarding my reference to 'drug dealers' I should have clarified...
I was applying that label to the big bankers who dangle unrealistic credit in front of consumers to get them to keep the money moving. Whenever the money moves, of course, big bankers and bankers all up and down the credit lines make money. At the top of the heap is "The Fed" - the head of the addiction cartel.
They "push" their product at people who can often least afford to buy it. They push it regardless of the detrimental effects it can involve. They push it in the hopes of emptying the bank accounts of all who are addicted. They don't care what the quality of the product they push may be. It can be top grade pure and relatively safe, or as we've seen it can border on "toxic" - no different than many street drugs.
Once it's destroyed people and their lives, the pushers exclaim that they just sell the product. It's the buyers' duty not to abuse or overuse it ( - that is the one position agree with).
This is why I say they are no different than drug dealers. They are that and more, because there are few real laws against these pushers and they are free to indoctrinate each succeeding generation into their web of addiction. They do so in full view of, and with the full blessing and often the encouragement of the very government institutions (Congress) and agencies designed to keep watch over all.
But it all starts at the top of the cartel...where policy is made and dictated, filtering down to the "street level pusher".
I always tell people to check out their local neighborhood community credit unions first because once you get involved with stockholder-owned banks you're then not feeding just the cartel. You are also feeding the greedy thousands of stockholders who hitch a ride on their profit-making. ALL paid for by the addicted.
Better to borrow from (and save at) the member-owned credit unions and keep the profits local. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/10/2008 3:07:31 PM | | With Respect,Kindly remember-that for every 1000(approximate) people who get poorer-at least ONE person gets richer-these are games that are played within the 'More fortunate circles' for which the 'Unfortunate' will bear the suffering and the cost!-Not much more to say really?. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/10/2008 8:43:22 PM | Wanta ,
Im copying your message 36 and im going to repost in in jan. for all to see what a skilled prognosticator you are LOL | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/11/2008 12:00:39 AM | wanta smart 1, I have been telling everyone , in all things, follow the money. It is sad to say people will get to know soon enough about the world bank.
{One World Currency. One World Power. One World President.
Did you all think I was kidding or what?}
It does no good, people have lost all sense of reason, the schools started programming "people" years ago, gee, trust the government with your kid, I don't think so. Just think about this, the teachers have to be politicaly correct or they will lose their jobs, in turn they have to teach all the good little children "how to think" in a social political world.
That is social engineering folks. Teach them when their young to think like you would have them and then you've gotem by the ba**s.
Theroy, maybe but, to not reconize a threat is to be blindsided by it. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/11/2008 1:54:09 AM | ROBWISC,
By all means, be my guest. Everything else has come to pass so far.
There's a reason the media keeps pushing Italy's Berlusconi (who the heck is he? Oh - Italy's Prime Minister...who cares)...calling for one world currency and market suspensions. I guess he's been told to shut the hell up for now. Is that because many banks will still be open on Saturday? Afraid of a run on currency/cash?
Don't forget how hard Bush tried to get anyone who'd listen, involved in that Iraq invasion thing. Coincidence that he does this on the day the IMF and World Bank Annual reports are due? Coincidence this is all taking place on a 3-day weekend - Monday being a bank (but not stock market) holiday in the US?
If, as a result of their meeting tomorrow, things go south and the stock market collapses further, banks will already be closed. That would give the scammers time to declare bank moratoriums or extend bank closings before they re-open Tuesday. Coincidence?
This is a lender-investor-borrower confidence thing. I still think too many people now have the feeling the jig is up and they're getting a sense of what's happened and why. They're now refusing to continue to play the game any further and banks are gauging that by peoples' banking activity. Frankly, I think the whole thing is backfiring on the financial schemers and they're getting desperate enough to take more reckless chances.
People are going to start demanding the financial power abusers be removed. Maybe people SHOULD make bank runs until they find out the results of that meeting later today. After all, the financial wizards even say they have NO IDEA what effect any further action by them will have, if any.
D_Lily,
I hear what you're saying about schooling and social engineering. I would never send a kid to public school today. These kids are NOT being equipped to deal with what they're about to inherit. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/11/2008 7:45:32 AM | Just out from Fox News --
Authorities are looking at possiblities of someone committing acts of "Ecconomic Terrorism".
It seems that almost every day for the last 12 days in the market -- the market buys all day. Then just at the end of each day there is a huge sell-off. This de-values stocks and discourages investors.
Because the sell-off occurs at the end of each day, the market has no time respond before it closes. Then the media comes out with stories of sell-offs, which sets off further panic.
Who is doing this?
I know some Progressives/Liberals may hate Fox News and believe it reports nothing but lies. But the fact that the sell-offs are occuring is true -- and worth looking into by all. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/12/2008 8:08:22 PM | In no way am I saying " all you need is love", but I am saying their are some people out their in very bad circumstances. Some are taking their own lives. That is a very sad aspect to the reality of this.
Don't let the moment be stronger than your will to rise above this
There's no bad or unworkable circumstances that worth taking your own life for. Unfortunately, in this doom and gloom environment, despair feeds upon itself and creates further doom and gloom. People should let cooler heads prevail but they don't ... they get caught up in the frenzy.
Of course I could be a real rat bas**rd and declare no hope for any of us, which
do you think is better?
Sometimes, I don't think there's hope for this world. It's good that you believe there is. | |
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| Stocks seriously down globally.
Posted: 10/12/2008 9:49:31 PM |
Authorities are looking at possiblities of someone committing acts of "Ecconomic Terrorism".
It seems that almost every day for the last 12 days in the market -- the market buys all day. Then just at the end of each day there is a huge sell-off. This de-values stocks and discourages investors.
Because the sell-off occurs at the end of each day, the market has no time respond before it closes. Then the media comes out with stories of sell-offs, which sets off further panic.
Who is doing this?
Must be those damned stockbroker "domestic terrorists"!
They're exercising that obscure "domestic terrorism" act of - PROFIT-TAKING. Possibly because they're tired of LOSING ALL THEIR MONEY! They recognize that these "authorities" have zero clue what they're doing.
(If you're not careful, and try to take your money out of a failing bank, they may soon label you as a "domestic economic terrorist" as well. I'm kinda joking, but kinda not.)
I can't wait to see what happens Monday when the Stock Markets are open but the banks are closed for Columbus Day. I still think the Dow will fall to 7,150 or less.
Maybe I'll go buy some MREs. | |
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