| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/13/2008 4:14:30 AM | Wow what a thread.
Well I think there's nothing wrong with being polite - we are different, we inherent societies that tells us those differences mean something - unfortunately for many minorities we end up on the short end of that stick. Naming can be a very powerful thing, particularly for groups historically disadvanted. What's wrong with not wanting to insult people in light of the histories we inheret? Why is it so hard for people to accept what others wish to be called?
Of course it's a delicate balance and no one wants to over do it. To that extent I do think that calls of racism, bigotry can be over used just as people (should I say conservatives?) with an ax to grind will intepret every aspect of their least prefered group(s) negatively. In that respect neither 'side' does any good.
Now on the immigration thing, well I usually have plenty to say about that, mostly because I'm an immigrant here and the debate is usally very vey narrow. A broad brush is painted that doesn't distinguish between the different types of groups that come here. I often find people even including non-white British citizens, sometimes 3rd generation in the 'immigrant' category. The concerns and characteristics of the different groups included in 'immigrant' are incredibly varied and weakens many arguments when that isn't acknowledged. I think immigration is a double edged sword, but as someone who works for a government organization, the ageing population has many many people scared shitless. You either need to let more people of child baring age in or somehow convince British citizens to start having more kids cause the top heavy society is going to crumble like a house of cards.
I just have to add a few points about the death penalty and the justice system here. I do not think the state should ever ever have the right to take a person's life. That's too much power for a government to weild repsonsibly - just look at the mess in the US! I also have to say compared to my own country (US) I'm quite shocked at how light the sentencing is here. I also wonder why you bother with the 'jailed for life' thing, doesn't seem to mean very much.
Ok done with my poorly spelled novel  | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/13/2008 5:22:18 AM | first time i've posted on the forum so here goes....... PC is bollox, call a spade a spade & try to take each person as they come, if a person is ok with me then vice versa ! These days we are all "afraid" to voice our "true" opinions for fear of repercussions, take the workplace, i am in transport (HGV1) for 23 years, now you are not "allowed" to swear as it might offend staff that work in the office ? your not allowed to tell any "jokes" regarding blacks, irish, scots, welsh, muslims, gays, straights, midgets, etc etc i think you get my point ! because it's not PC ! who the fOOk makes up these rules ? & do they live in the real world ? The fact is we are all different be it colour of skin, sexual preference, or religious beliefs ! I try to be a honest & open person that takes people as i find them & all this PC stuff to be quite honest has gone way overboard ! & could i take the opportunity to be the first this year to wish you all a very mery christmas
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| Till death do us part
Posted: 10/13/2008 8:20:57 AM | This nation has for as long as records began, Persecuted any race, creed religion or people it has contacted, any and all problems we now have are entirely our own making, if we are a nation we cannot blame our ancestors etc as they were doing what they thought correct, as we are.
any argument after this post are pointless, we all have a view, PC is a term of a wnnabe politician who could get no recognition from his peers (he is Belgian by the way) | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/13/2008 11:52:00 AM |
Actually, you're a troll. That's the only possible explanation for the above.
Wrong on both counts, actually, but thanks for confirming the type of people who bandy baseless accusations around.
I thought my previous post clearly explained the reasoning behind my comments. Shall I dumb it down any further?
OK.
I believe that any prejudice directed towards any group is the fault of that group. People don't have to have encountered every member of that group to develop their prejudice - all it needs is a number of negative encounters with various members of it.
Take my local pub, the FHT. It's about a mile south of Peckham, and on my very first visit on a quiet Wednesday in 1997, I learned that it was the haunt of a number of Millwall football fans. My heart sank a little, but over the next few weeks, I met most of them and found them to be no problem whatsoever. True, they were mainly married couples, but my previous prejudice against these fans was found to be totally unfounded.
Who knows who's fault it is
Millwall fans are entirely to blame for the prejudice which some of us have against them.
it certainly isn't the fault of an entire race if one of it's people happens to be an arsehole.
If an entire race only produced one ars-hole, then it wouldn't have any problems with prejudice (viz. the ghurkas), because the chances of everyone experiencing that person in a negative way are slim to none. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 3:04:52 AM | you're as short sighted as Mr Magoo.
"any prejudice directed towards any group is the fault of that group" how do you quantify a sweeping statement like that? are all who are on the receiving end all Nazis? | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 3:21:05 AM | ZeeGary, I can actually see where you are coming from with that statement ...
As an analogy, if you touch stinging nettles they sting, touch them enough times and they keep on stinging then you stop touching them ...
The problem comes when you transfer that learned behaviour onto a social group ..
They're far more diverse within their own groups than most other things...
I know lot's of lovely Asians, Poles, Afro Caribbeans you name it ... But when you hear of knife crime and gun crime it is predominantly black on black crime (round here) . So unfortunately you do get a negative over view of a particular group of people.. Whether it is true or a warped view because of poor reporting, I don't know..
The important thing to do is to remain open to each individual, take them on merit and to never write off anyone just because they belong to a group you might otherwise view in a less than positive light... That is when you become racist and not just cautious.. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 3:33:05 AM | | I can kind of see what you are saying Zeegary, but it is far more complicated than that. The reason for example there is a lot of crime commited by blacks in London is because they tend to live in the most deprived areas. And why is that? Because of historical prejudice. Can you explain how you think blacks are at fault for that prejudice? | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 11:47:00 AM | Freedom of speech is never absolute. There is speech (and writing) that is criminous - for example the incitement of crime - there is speech that is in itself restrainable - for example libel and slander and any of the other branches of defamation - and there is speech that may be actionable in damages.
There is also speech that is unacceptable - there are a range of words not permitted on this forum and there are things that are not permitted on many other fora.
It is unacceptable to refer to a person by the N-word, whether or not it is actionable. The rational but unacceptably extreme language of Enoch Powell ended his political career. The "macaca moment" has ended the career of more than one US politician.
If the prejudiced speech seen here (much of it verging on illiterate) were denied a platform there would be less risk of damage to society, in the same way as if the songs of David Hannam (and that evil Texan pair of blonde little girls whose name escapes me at the moment and the speeches of the BNP were denied platform, then the world would be a better place and there would be less risk of it becoming a worse place. Society depends on restraint to function smoothly.
Censorship needs to be justified. Censorship of dogwhistle (and more obvious) bigots is the right course to take. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 11:57:27 AM | I find it interesting that you only complain about the racist speech of white anglo-saxons, and not people of other races...Mmmm...Interesting...
Inverted racism? | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 11:59:39 AM | Some BNP points are actually valid, such as the unmanaged immigration of many people who come into the country and live on benefits in a council house with no intention of integrating into the wider society or even learning the language of the country they choose to live in. OK, this is the minority, but it's a minority that gets themselves noticed for their complete ignorance of the country they live in or the rules and laws of said country. The fact that there is a Muslim council in the UK or a "Black community" in the UK is abhorrant thought and in themselves are technically "racist". There would be a huge outcry if there was an "association of white police officers" but there is a black version which upholds the rights of coloured police men and women. Is this in itself not racist? Then there are the Sharia courts all over the country that are allowed to judge muslims with no regard for UK law. This is tantamount to vigilanti-ism, but is allowed as it is a minority community.
I'm not saying I support the BNP, but they do raise some valid points, even if the overall message is one that comes across as racist and white nationalist | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 12:23:59 PM | Of course its acceptable to use the "n" word,
No it isn't not in the slightest... it's degrading and is meant as such.... Samuel L Jackson once did a film where he was a Basket Ball coach, the film was called Coach Carter based on a true story... Anyway he said that the word is never acceptable even when used by African Americans when talking to one another.... No it really isn't, it shows lack of respect for a fellow human being...
the world will be a better place when the uk is cleared of all foreigners an start again with managed immigration, if any at all,!
Oh for god sake... you have completely contradicted yourself... you cannot have managed immigration while having no foreigners in the country.... I'm not political correct I can't stand it... but have you any idea how ignorant and childish that statement sounds...
you have proved my point again, you dint want the bnp any rights to their speeches but you an the left wing terror brigade can spout off all the rubbish clap trap ,but you don't want to listen to any other viewpoint? typical biase of the brown lot,
still because someone dares to have an alternative view doesnt make them a racist!
And you are as bad as those who take Political Correctness to the extreme... and do you want to listen to their view point... or are you to busy sprouting crap.....
Dude seriously get a grip..
As I stated before I started this thread I don't like Political Correctness..., drives me up the wall... and I am of the opinion, people should be adult enough without resorting to name calling to discuss hot issues, equally I cannot abide bull S*** like has come from a particular poster.... it's the likes of that attitude on both sides left and right that makes it virtually imposable to have a conversation or debate in reference to Political Correctness... | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 12:41:33 PM | Then there are the Sharia courts all over the country that are allowed to judge muslims with no regard for UK law. This is tantamount to vigilanti-ism, but is allowed as it is a minority community.
There is a lot of misunderstanding about these "British Sharia courts."
They basically only involve themselves in disputes between parties where both sides have agreed to submit themselves to their authority.
Its basically a form of private mediation which does not take precedence over the normal civil courts .
Essentially it is no different from
1) the Jewish courts which have operated here for many years
2) Me steeping in to try and settle an argument between my mate Dave and my other mate Bob | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 1:40:35 PM |
"any prejudice directed towards any group is the fault of that group" how do you quantify a sweeping statement like that?
Do you mean "qualify"?
My earlier posts did......I can't keep dumbing my posts down for the sake of those who aren't equipped to understand basic English.
The problem comes when you transfer that learned behaviour onto a social group ..
They're far more diverse within their own groups than most other things...
Quite, but prejudice comes from repeated negative interaction with that social group. It does not come from a single negative encounter, just like the nettles analogy.
but it is far more complicated than that. The reason for example there is a lot of crime commited by blacks in London is because they tend to live in the most deprived areas. And why is that? Because of historical prejudice. Can you explain how you think blacks are at fault for that prejudice?
I'm not trying to explain the behaviour of any groups - I'm trying to explain why I believe that they are at fault for any prejudice they might encounter.
Freedom of speech is never absolute. There is speech (and writing) that is criminous - for example the incitement of crime - there is speech that is in itself restrainable - for example libel and slander and any of the other branches of defamation - and there is speech that may be actionable in damages.
Quite, but PC prevents us using terms which we might find entirely acceptable but which some think will offend the group in question. I don't consider describing someone with diabetes as being 'diabetic'......it's a short accurate description of them. Sadly, the PC crowd thinks this somehow defines that person in their entirety. It does no such thing, but we are made to feel uncomfortable if we use the term.
Funnily enough, I never see an outcry when someone is described as a 'criminal' or 'racist'....
I find it interesting that you only complain about the racist speech of white anglo-saxons, and not people of other races...Mmmm...Interesting...
Haven't you heard? WASPs are the most vile, obnoxious, racist people on Earth.......which is why the rest of the world wants to come and live with us in the society we created.
Samuel L Jackson once did a film where he was a Basket Ball coach, the film was called Coach Carter based on a true story... Anyway he said that the word is never acceptable even when used by African Americans when talking to one another
He used the term about 94 times to describe Beaumont in Jackie Brown.....
No one (free adult) Nigerian Jamaican Jew Bosnian or Bosniak or German or American is responsible for the acts or omissions of any other such.
I agree.
It's the actions of many of them which cause the prejudice.
The original inhabitants of this island were Britons, Celts and Picts.
All of whom were originally inhabitants of northern Europe. No-one lived here 15,000 years ago, during the last ice-age, so no-one can claim to have continually inhabited these islands since they separated from the European land mass. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 1:45:55 PM |
the world will be a better place when the uk is cleared of all foreigners an start again with managed immigration, if any at all,!
they bring back the death sentence,!
Good, you can go first. The original inhabitants of this island were Britons, Celts and Picts. Which is mainly the Welsh, Scots and Cornish. Everyone that followed is and was an immigrant. And as this policy would have to start somewhere, you can go first matey... would you like us to have a whip round for the one way ticket on Eurostar? ...And don't forget to get a customs note for your medications. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 2:57:55 PM |
Samuel L Jackson once did a film where he was a Basket Ball coach, the film was called Coach Carter based on a true story... Anyway he said that the word is never acceptable even when used by African Americans when talking to one another He used the term about 94 times to describe Beaumont in Jackie Brown.....
Hahahahaha..I love it when you do that Zeegary and the way you do it !!
Freedom of speech is never absolute. There is speech (and writing) that is criminous - for example the incitement of crime - there is speech that is in itself restrainable - for example libel and slander and any of the other branches of defamation - and there is speech that may be actionable in damages.
I have to agree with Mr. Grumpy that the right to speak freely has never really existed completely. We are often restrained in how we choose to express ourselves and what it is we wish to express by the confines of polite society...none of us really wants to be a total social outcast.
You Brits do make it seem as if political correctness in your land has gone too far and maybe it's your own fault for feeling guilty at having offended the rest of the world with your successive monarchs' and governments' greed and delusions of world domination and are desperately trying to make up for being such cheeky blaggers in the past.
The funny thing is that my experience of Brits is that they are far too easily offended and very sensitive - I always find myself having to be really careful what I write on here. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/14/2008 4:51:18 PM |
I believe that any prejudice directed towards any group is the fault of that group. People don't have to have encountered every member of that group to develop their prejudice
No, it's the fault of cretins ascribing certain characteristics to an entire race because of the behaviour of a few of its members. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/15/2008 12:57:15 AM | From the Oxford Dictionary
racism
• noun 1 the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race. 2 discrimination against or antagonism towards other races.
— DERIVATIVES racist noun & adjective. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/15/2008 10:52:08 AM | | Does that mean it would be racist of me to say that black people generally have a higher natural capability in athletic events that involve "fast twitch" muscle fibres, such as sprinting? | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/15/2008 2:21:26 PM |
No, it's the fault of cretins ascribing certain characteristics to an entire race because of the behaviour of a few of its members.
Hmm......so an educated person cannot make a deduction about the behaviour of a particular group? Don't forget, that group may or may not be of the same race. That group may be of both genders, it might or might not be of the same age group or income bracket.
racism
• noun 1 the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race.
Which would mean that every anthropologist on the planet is a racist!
To me being handicapped means you face additional challanges...DIS-abled, to me seems to say unable.
To me, the two terms are virtually identical.....and I would use them as such if the PC crowd allowed me. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/15/2008 3:24:00 PM |
racism
• noun 1 the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race.
Which would mean that every anthropologist on the planet is a racist!
It came from a dictionary. And a very respected one. The Oxford. Shame you don't like facts. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/15/2008 4:12:48 PM |
It came from a dictionary. And a very respected one. The Oxford. Shame you don't like facts.
I have the same dictionary, and I'm quite happy with the definition you provided. I don't believe I indicated that I don't like the definition - I'm more than happy with it because it supports my own view. Their ARE differences between the races, which is something that the liberals and PC crowd don't like to admit.
The comment I made about anthropologists was meant to be sarcastic. They base their studies on the fact that the races are different. Would one really consider an anthropologist to be racist simply because they know this?
BTW I love facts........all my posts are based upon them!
*To realise that is to have a modicum of common-sense. To consider that any of the differences make any of us better people is racist.
I fully agree. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/15/2008 4:46:52 PM |
Hmm......so an educated person cannot make a deduction about the behaviour of a particular group? Don't forget, that group may or may not be of the same race. That group may be of both genders, it might or might not be of the same age group or income bracket
Depends what the group is and how narrowly defined. If you saw a group of noisy drunk men in their twenties you couldn't say all men, all men in their twenties or all drunk men in their twenties are noisy. You could only say for certain that that particular group of drunk men in their twenties was noisy. Would you say anti-black racism is the fault of all black people? That does seem to be your logic.... | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/15/2008 4:54:44 PM | I was reading another forum on here last week where some man admitted he was a racist saying that he wouldn't sleep with a woman who had slept with a black man.
I can't believe comments like that aren't deleted.
People have the right to be racist it's the ones who shove their racist views down your neck who should be barred from doing so. I thought racism was against the law anyway. | |
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/15/2008 5:57:42 PM | Have a thought for people blessed with a "Micro-penis"..
Right got your attention.... PC or not!!!! Does it matter!
There are bigger issues I know but.... Pick on one, pick on all... after all is said and done, being diffferent is a good thing and a tolerant society should allow people to voice their opinions as they may be speaking for the silent majority and maybe just once empower a silent to speak out... The silents have a voice that is often muted by.... apathy! Or muted by people with loud voices and louder opinions....
If you truely care about anything.... want to voice your opinion... not here!... get it heard, have your questions asked in a loud way..
These buggers work for us and have a duty to represent the opinions of the masses, not the people who shout loudest...Is it not about time that you have your say???
(200 public fax/emails) a month will have your local MP in her office for 40 hrs a week (Just like the rest of us).. They work for you.... If you have an opinion please voice it on here but also... make them work...for the money you have to pay them... (you have a choice how much your MP earns?????... (more than you probably)
go to theyworkforyou.com and find out their Fax number.... They have to have a Fax and they HAVE to reply to a faxed message unlike e-mail or telephone message..
these Bu99ers have allowed lots of millions of £££££ that the country has to print (we haven't got the cash broon is giving away... it is all pretend (monopoly???) money.. Made up by the Bank of England!!!!!) go to waste.. Your money!!!! You are the Tax payer......
!
Get your MP to ask where the money has come from (especially after all the funding cutbacks over the bast 7+ yrs... No support for the British car industry???????.. Ooooh have to help the banks cos they're my friends who'll give me a directorship when I retire...Shyte!!!!)
So Bollocks to PC crap... Say it as it is.. The Gov't have people scared to call a cat that has a really dark coat of the really dark dark shade of brown fur, BLACK...
It is stifling progress and demoralising society and allowing certain political groups, a foothold.....
Let us be Human...We all have our predjudices... I do not like Vegetabalarianians is calling someone a Veggie an insult???... Ohhh Those Peskies (Pescatarians).. How I loath them... Blummin Sweeds why are they so Pale and pasty???? ((The Turnip-like Veg of course...
Bugger this.....Sticks and Stones
Maybe the Nambypambys (can I still call them this???) should shut the F**K up and allow people to abide without petty insignificany rules!!!!!
The Tired Ruff One!
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| Political Correctness
Posted: 10/15/2008 6:04:28 PM | F.Y.I. insignificany is a word that I made up to replace insignificance as I can stand speelinng mistakes and cany is as good a cance in my world also, vociferous people have a place and time and time is the measurable......
Ruffy
Ruff
Ru
R
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