| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/23/2008 9:12:05 AM | Covering some post
Instead of invading for cheap gas how about people SLOW DOWN. Again ,god forbid we are inconvinenced. Whens the last time you checked your tire pressure? Probably doesnt matter anyway with all the guys running oversized tires on there escalades for no reason.
Maybe the US could use its own resources. Oh yes, we have plenty but why use them?
And finaly, the 2400 meter shot.. For those that don't understand that was a bullcrap shot. 800 meters is a incredible shot. 500 is realistic. The 2400 meter shot was more of a spray and pray. The drop for a 7.62x51 at 1000 meters is something of 10 feet. Not to mention it takes awhile to get there. So hopefully your tagret is asleep standing up. Ad yes i know the shot was a 50 cal. I'm pretty sure even though its documented its hardly reconized as a confirmed kill. | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/23/2008 2:09:46 PM | If they have a problem with us, theyre more than welcome to try and do something about it. Theyd fail, but they can try. They can sit there and blow themselves up, but we can turn their wonderful little land of fanatics and sand into the worlds biggest sheet of glass.
As the most powerful country today, you really think we should sit around and let some pathetic third world wasteland regulate how much they can charge everyone for oil? ****. That. Shit.
Power comes to those who take it, and we'd be fools to not use it by allowing those OPEC **stards to "deprive the big oil-guzzling meanies". Hah. We could step in, take control of the oil fields, and turn the rest of that region into the worlds biggest sandbox amusement park or something.  | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/23/2008 3:15:56 PM | | Because that worked out so well for germany 60 or so years ago. Who precisely do you think would be on our side if we just decided overthrowing nations was the decision? In fact who in the military would stick to it? I wouldnt, i didnt join to kill and slaughter i joined to serve and protect our nation. | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/23/2008 5:15:52 PM |
And finaly, the 2400 meter shot.. For those that don't understand that was a bullcrap shot. 800 meters is a incredible shot. 500 is realistic. The 2400 meter shot was more of a spray and pray. The drop for a 7.62x51 at 1000 meters is something of 10 feet. Not to mention it takes awhile to get there. So hopefully your tagret is asleep standing up. Ad yes i know the shot was a 50 cal. I'm pretty sure even though its documented its hardly reconized as a confirmed kill.
My buddy who got out of the army reciently qualified as an "expert" marksman with the M16, he could hit what he was aiming at from 1000 meters. That's without using a sniper rifle with a scope. 500 meters is realistic for your average grunt with an assault rifle, but your average grunt isn't skilled enough to be a sniper and doesn't have a sniper rifle. You mention 7.62 ammo which implies an AK47, the AK47 has a looser fit of parts (which decreases accuracy though increases reliability in incliment conditions like mud and sand) and less muzzle velocity than the M16, so the AK isn't going to be especially accurate at long range. | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/23/2008 8:10:13 PM | The Nazis didnt know what they were doing at first, they were pissed off at everyone. Germany was in a pretty shitty state at the time when Hitler came to power. All he did was give the country some sort of unity through his speeches on how Germany should get revenge on the world, etc. Then he beefed up the military and started taking countries.
Now dont get me wrong, Germany actually did pretty damn well considering what they started off with. But youd be a fool to compare America today, to pre-WWII Germany. They were nowhere near our caliber now. If we decided "Ey, the world sucks, lets take it over!" It would be ours, no doubt. Who would be on our side? Lol Canada, no doubt, Mexico (if they dont, all the illegals are goin back home within a week, and a nice big wall with plenty of armed guards is going up), Britain. And im sure we could "convince" many others to look at things our way.  | |
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imp78
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 106 | |
| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/23/2008 10:19:47 PM |
We wouldnt be as powerful as we are if we didnt kick ass from day one.
Sadly we seem to be following the same path as the Roman Empire and the British Empire. We did pretty well expanding, kickin ass, takin names, as well as valuable resources, in return for civilizing barbarians and other backwards cultures.
 Absurd. You mean from day one when were weren't even a nation, but a mistake the Vikings made? Or maybe day one when we were a colony of an expanding British empire - the colony they were sitting back on their asses and making money off of? The same relationship that contributed to our revolution against them? Remember the phrase, "No taxation without representation"? So by your logic, our very actions of agressive empire building, being bullies and making money off conquered peoples - the same cycle that didn't work so well for the British Empire - that's your great plan for the future of this country. Because if it didn't work for the Romans or the British, then it MUST work for the U.S.?
Hmmmm? Maybe not so much.
Original question - I don't know. I don't believe in turning the other cheek when it comes to big things, but I absolutely don't trust the people in our governments to make the right decisions about wars. Mostly because history has shown that the greedy SOBs really muck it up.
I do not think invading Iraq was the right thing to do. I think that every soldier who has been wounded or died in Iraq is and is not a waste. On a big picture level, how can it not be a waste if I don't think we should be over there in the first place? On a personal level, how can I not think it was definitely worth something if people are hurt protecting other people or doing their jobs to the best of their ability? | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/24/2008 8:47:07 AM | Britian and Rome made the same mistake. They got complacent and stopped expanding. THAT is what led to their downfall. Britian began granting independence to its territory in India, and all of its territory in Africa, etc. From owning half the world, they now own an island...
We're following that same path by just sitting here, relying on the people to fund the country. Why foot the bill when you can have your enemies do it? | |
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edisto
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Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 108 | |
| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/24/2008 11:06:01 AM |
Britian began granting independence to its territory in India
oh pleez- your's is revisionist history, Britain "began granting independence to its territory in India" ?
Ghandi had no part, it was just Britian's "complacency" ?
I'd suggest you read The Ugly American and the history of Ghandi
I guess you're saying that Britian "granted independence" to the 13 colonies and that there was no Revolutionary War? | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/24/2008 2:38:11 PM | No, we took advantage of a time when Britain was fairly weakened, a matter of good timing on our part. Look at Britains strength and expanse when we became independent, and look at it when India became independent. Two completely different levels in Britains strength.
You cant compare our fight for independence versus Ghandi's... well whatever he called it, cause it sure wasnt a fight. Consider the ease of travel between Britain and the east coast of the US. How all you have to do is sail across the ocean. Then think of how far Britain and India are, and how much occupied territory has to be covered to reach India. You really think Britain would bother sending more troops all the way over there to combat an insignificant uprising? Thats pretty much what every little riot in India amounted to. A small uprising, nowhere near a revolution. Look at the lives lost and blood shed in India, then compare that to the numbers from the American Revolution. You cant compare the two.
Britain didnt bother wasting their time, or the lives of their troops. Plain and simple. We fought for our independence, India wasnt worth fighting over. | |
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edisto
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Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 110 | |
| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/24/2008 5:34:25 PM |
You cant compare our fight for independence versus Ghandi's... well whatever he called it, cause it sure wasnt a fight.
actually I wasn't comparing the two at all, I was attempting to point out that Britian did not become "complacent and grant independence-"
the 13 colonies fought for theirs, and Ghandi held non violent protests, both accomplished what they were after, which shows that war is not an absolute-
as for your comment about Ghandi- "cause it sure wasn't a fight"- exactly my point- war is not necessary, there are other means to acoomplish things, but our myopic view of the world, and one that you certainly espouse, is that "might makes right", and that is pure bullsh1t~
again, I suggest reading The Ugly American- | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 1:23:39 AM | | Non-violence only works against those who feel shame from killing those who cannot defend themselves. Not everyone follows that theory, thus non-violence can not and will not be a 100% solution. | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 5:48:40 AM | A Right war.......is a war not fought for profit.......but fought for freedom
Look at Viet Nam and every war since including Iraq and Afghanistan......follow the money trail.......who is making money........and you will learn the real reason why we are fighting these wars
Politicians.......weapon manufactures.......oil companies.......big business.......the rich.......all are making money and getting richer off the blood of the American people.
I love our country......I’m a decorated Viet Nam veteran
And I like the concept of "Peace over war"........and “Sharing the Wealth“....... in our country. | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 7:19:01 AM | Second point : where the hell do you live that this is a legitimate fear?
I live in a major city in St Louis MO...part of the colonies.It seems by your question that you've been sleeping the last forty years or so.Most,if not all,major cities have areas[London?]where a healthy respect and fear of your surroundings is a necessity for living. Even rural areas have the issues at hand,something like walking out in your hundred acre farm and being well out of earshot of anyone and running across the three people stealing from your ammonia tank to make meth.The least you might expect at that point is a survivable beating.
And you like "big guns?" | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 7:20:55 AM |
Dawg said it. Explain to the familys of the thousands of dead and wounded it was not right. I dare anyone to tell my mom to her face i got my arm half blown off for nothing.
And I thank you for your commitment and service. | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 7:26:17 AM |
rather be delusional than a killer or one who sends others out to kill
Or you can just be one of the women put to servicing enemy occupants when they have control of the area.Sure hope you like it in ...................
This is what happens.Enjoy!! | |
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edisto
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Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 116 | |
| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 8:37:37 AM | ^^^^^
rather be delusional than a killer or one who sends others out to kill
Or you can just be one of the women put to servicing enemy occupants when they have control of the area.Sure hope you like it in ...................
This is what happens.Enjoy!!
sir, to tell me to enjoy being raped under any circumstances is revolting....
if your argument is that I should support war because rape is one of the outcomes is another argument AGAINST war not for it~
I oppose war because of collateral damage, torture, destruction, death and rape and that it brings about hatred, tears mankind apart and has NEVER brought about a lasting peace-
war is insanity~ | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 10:58:30 AM | I just caught this thread and thought to add my two pennies....
A few questions come to mind:
1) Is a "necessary war" an oxymoron? Kinda like Army Intelligence? ha ha
Necessary to one may not so much be necessary to another. Guess it just depends who is doing the warring! lol
2) Can you have peace without war?
For me personally, I think a "necessary" war would be one where I am imminently threatened first, and my friends or family threatened imminently secondly.
The leaders on both sides of the Iraq war made decisions based on info we were never (and never will be) privy to entirely.
Why did Iraq ignore the UN resolutions for so long?
Why did the Bush Administration go in without better communicating the reasons to the American People?
This WMD search was just one of 13 reasons, why was it the only thing the MSM paid attention to or that the current Administration let be paid attention to? | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 3:57:07 PM |
if your argument is that I should support war because rape is one of the outcomes is another argument AGAINST war not for it~
No, his arguement is that if you're pacifict, and "the enemy" comes comes to where to live, that's what happens when you don't resist and fight back. You're fortunate that a war is unlikely to end up on your doorstep, but the reason for that is that we have lots of trained soldier with guns to keep that from happening. If the govt suddenly decided to become a pacifict nation and disband the military and lose all the guns, we would be invaded eventually. | |
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edisto
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Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 119 | |
| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 4:57:12 PM |
If the govt suddenly decided to become a pacifict nation and disband the military and lose all the guns, we would be invaded eventually.
the US spends $522 billion a year on the defense budget-
http://www.borgenproject.org/Defense_Spending.html
that money spent on education, medical research, infrastructure-
would bring more peace in the world than any goddamn gun or war ever would~
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 5:36:25 PM | | The right war is resistance to occupation, which is what the Iraqis are doing against the US military. This is when there is no other choice left. Iraqis were forced to go this way. | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 5:38:54 PM | | The U.S. military buget is admittedly vastly inflated from what we could get by on, but if we converted the entire military buget into things like infrastructure, then we're just creating a tastier prize for our conquerers. | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 6:28:03 PM | sir, to tell me to enjoy being raped under any circumstances is revolting....
Enjoy it or not...I don't care..... it is a fact.I'm merely suggesting you might want to be a little more realistic and pragmatic in your pacifistic outlook on things.Bad things happen in war and the worst usually happens to the loser.That's what war[sounds familiar here]is all about.
war is insanity~
It is also reality!!
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 6:35:10 PM |
that money spent on education, medical research, infrastructure-
would bring more peace in the world than any goddamn gun or war ever would~
And all the prosperity that goes with it....right?
All the prosperity that someone else will want to have for themselves.
You really don't get it do you?? | |
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edisto
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Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 124 | |
| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 8:48:29 PM | ^^^^^^
And all the prosperity that goes with it....right?
All the prosperity that someone else will want to have for themselves.
You really don't get it do you??
prosperity...
WTF are you talking about ?
let's look at the wars that the US has been involved in recently-
World War I & II, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq
what prosperity did any of the countries involved gain exactly-
PLEASE- tell me...
let me share an even more important statistic with you-
American deaths in each war...
In World War I, 53,402 American servicemen were killed in action.
In World War II, the toll was 291,557.
For the Korean War, 33,629.
In Vietnam, 45,940.
Afghanistan so far 500
Iraq so far 4,187
http://www.santacruzpl.org/readyref/files/t-z/wars.shtml
and these are only American deaths....
YOU don't "get it" | |
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| What is the right war?
Posted: 10/25/2008 9:08:48 PM |
You really don't get it do you??
Somebody doesn't.
If you don't think humans are capable of anything more than an eternal struggle to acquire things that others will try to take away, then you're right. We're doomed to eternal warfare.
But with the onset of modern travel and communication, we've effectively shrunk the world. Sure, we're still full of nationalistic pride and there's a huge disparity between the haves and the have nots, and there remain significant ideological differences, but as a species we're far more aware and sensitive to what's happening all over the planet.
When catastrophe strikes one nation, others on the other side of the globe offer assistance. When atrocities occur anywhere, there's often a reaction from far away nations as well. Our economies and technologies are more linked than they've ever been. That's why there's such keen global interest in the U.S. presidential election. As the dominant superpower, U.S. policy has a ripple effect all over the planet.
So IF we started to divert military budgets into not just national but global efforts to improve standards of living EVERYWHERE, we might not eliminate conflicts, but we just might work toward a world where acts of aggression were limited to splinter fanatic groups on a much smaller scale than nations attacking nations.
Idealistic? No question. Unrealistic? That depends on our will. We demonstrated our ability to make unheard of technological advancements during the last century. Imagine if someone in 1900 had predicted we would by 2000 have made all the advancements we actually did accomplish. No one would have taken them seriously. Why can't this century be the one where we advance our philosophies and practices to learn to live harmoniously? Not just with each other but with the environment as well.
Maybe it won't happen, maybe it will. I don't think anyone would disagree that life will be different in 2100 than it is in 2008, and I don't know anyone who LIKES to see their loved ones killed in a war. We've got a long way to go, but we won't get there by saying "we can't". We'll get there by asking "how can we?" and then working diligently to find the answers.
Dave | |
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