| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/10/2008 6:36:10 PM | | I think the demise of America started a long time ago, America is at war all the time as was Rome. America is under attack from within as was Rome. America thinks herself unbeatable as did Rome. Rome was not toppled by its next-door neighbour, it picked to many fights at once, kinda like America really. What did America do when China shot down one of its spy planes? I bet the Romans taught they had an awful lot of sophisticated detection systems and weaponry too. The citizenry of America is healthy? Their children bring guns into schools and kill each other, is that healthy? Their citizens blow up government buildings, is that healthy? America is ripping itself apart from within. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/11/2008 1:30:59 AM |
The world would get by without America as it gets by without Rome.
Perhaps, but between the "fall of Rome" (AD 476) and the First Crusade (1095-1099) was that period often referred to as the "Dark Age."
Keep in mind that the US has been a major global power only since 1945.
It may be hard to comprehend in this world connected with the Internet and cell phones, but our technological civilization is extremely fragile and is supported by thin threads of cheap energy and easy credit, both commodities readily available now but increasingly more expensive, and growing scarcer.
Wind and solar energy won't support the world's population, and the idea of 250 million or more horses replacing the automobile as personal transportation isn't viable-
The next "Dark Age" is likely to be deeper and longer than the last one, because we've burned up all the easy-to-get-to energy sources, making another Renaissance or Industrial Revolution less likely. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/11/2008 2:04:11 AM | Good points Beaugrand®™© and all very true. I personally think we are in that dark age since Bush got voted in. America is a world leader without leadership. Global integration of cultures is a reality and the integration of natural resources is required but will never happen. America needs to stop bullying (not peace keeping if you build pipelines to steal their oil) small countries and trying to enforce their version of freedom on the world. This was something Rome also did, the American people need to control their leaders not the other way around.
Romans seen themselves as better than others as do Americans, they kept slaves as did Americans (Spartacus Vs. the Boston Tea Party), they armed other nations and set them against each other as do America (North Korea and South Korea – Israel and Iraq), they tortured and killed for pleasure (the Arena and Guantanamo Bay), Rome gave humanity many great things as do America (lets call it as it is), Rome spread across the world as has America but at the end of the day Rome outlived its usefulness and died and America is going through that transition at the moment.
The energy crisis is another millennium bug. Energy cannot be created or destroyed....... We can replace oil easily but wont as the people with the money dont want that. It profits them to much to invade other countries to rape their natural recourses. Back to the point, energy cannot be created or destroyed. America cannot be created or destroyed it is a force and will remain a force well past my time here. It is changing, not for the best and not for the worst but changing none the less. The America I grew up hearing stories about has falling and a new America is rising in its place. Ancient Rome fell but Rome survived to this day. Ancient America also fell. All cultures and societies do. That’s the way of humanity, we evolve and change to suit our environment. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/11/2008 6:42:57 PM | I place the beginning of the end in the 1980s, when wholesale exportation of well-paying manufacturing jobs to third world countries kicked into high gear, and the introduction of the bonehead-stupid concept of "converting to a service economy..."
Surpise, surprise, service jobs are even more exportable than manufacturing jobs.
America's rise to prominence in 1939-1945 was supported by our unparalleled capacity for manufacturing. Dumping those good jobs overseas simply cut our own throats.
It's a pity the idiots in charge don't get it. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/12/2008 4:08:28 AM | | Thats happening here in Europe too Beaugrand®™©, without jobs, manufacturing or other decent paying jobs for the masses a countries economy is in real trouble. Both America and Europe are feeling the effects of this service economy. Economic powers last a lot longer than military powers, people are happier with money than with bullets. As long as Bush is in power we will get bullets not money and America will continue to fall. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/12/2008 7:39:20 AM | | Seems like a lot of the manufacturing jobs left when corporations were stuck with bills for large social programs. Corporate taxes pretty much are paid by those consuming the goods - tack right on to the cost of product. Remove corporate income tax and replace it with sales tax (which would include items produced over sea) I think would really help, or better yet, remove most or all of the government social programs. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/12/2008 4:52:44 PM |
America's real power is its economic dominance
Which is based upon debt.. & look where thats got us...
Anyone who couldn't see this coming at least 15 or more years ago has their head up their keester | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/12/2008 6:30:26 PM | | I'll certainly agree with you on this Aka; America's political leadership for the last eight years has been unbelievably wanting. It seems one grasps at straws to apply even some obscure philosophical value to it. | |
|
| |
| |
| |
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/13/2008 3:19:54 AM | I think it kind of evolved. It started with colonization. But when viably obtainable territory ran out, growth became about economic dominion. Military and political dominion followed after the US became an economic superpower.
Now it's a 50 state country torn between a 2 party system.
One appealing to the Nascar, Wrestling, American Gladiators lovin bunch, the other secretly working for an elite aristocracy. 
Okay, that sounds dumb. But I bet some countries think that about the US. | |
|
| |
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/13/2008 5:52:58 AM | No ... the US is not an Empire.
Corporate US tried to dominate the world but corporate Japan and now Korea and soon to be China has beat them down.
Corporate Europe is just sort of holding its own barely.
where the economic / power struggles used to be Government oriented like Rome and Carthage and Persia they are now corporate and work multi-nationally.
GM used to be one of the largest corporations in the world and now its not even in the top 100. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/13/2008 5:55:13 AM |
"Decline in Morals and Values"
Those morals and values that kept together the Roman legions and thus the empire could not be maintained towards the end of the empire. ... Even during PaxRomana there were 32,000 prostitutes in Rome.
What on earth have prostitutes to do with morals and values? It's only certain groups of people with this odd notion that marals and values start and end with what's between your legs, who think that God spends his time peeking into people's bedroom windows and being shocked - shocked! - at what he sees.
Have a look at wikipedia. The roman virtues were authority, hospitality, stamina, mercy, pride, military discipline, simplicity ... and a list of others. No mention at all of "not putting your thingo where it oughtn't go". It's those virtues whose lack brought down Rome, according to some. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/13/2008 4:28:07 PM |
In order to properly compare the USA with the Roman EMPIRE, you would surely have to cite the USA as being imperialist.
I think this, and I think that. Is the USA an empire?
It's not an empire in the usual sense of having conquered, but it is an empire of sorts, an empire of influence. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/14/2008 11:57:27 AM |
In order to properly compare the USA with the Roman EMPIRE, you would surely have to cite the USA as being imperialist.
Imperialism: the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies.
South Vietnam
South Korea
Afghanistan
Iraq
The Phillipines(Spelling?)
Cambodia
Puerto Rico
Need I go on? | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/14/2008 12:11:52 PM | South Vietnam == total US failure after taking over from France who had colonized it.
South Korea == Was a United Nations action... the first.
Afghanistan == A United Nations action with Canada doing a huge part
Iraq == bordering total failure ... was more of a US influence before the war.
The Phillipines(Spelling?) == granted ... left over from second world war but the poor government record there would be foolish for the US to try and take any credit for influencing them.
Cambodia == and what is the US doing there exactly...
Puerto Rico == is a tiny island and actually i believe a protectorate territory of the US.
the real Imperialism of the US took place in the 19th century ....
the Spanish American war and the Indian wars and the annexation of the North West.
and the attempted takeover of Canada [where they failed]. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/14/2008 12:47:02 PM | "Decline in Morals and Values
"Those morals and values that kept together the Roman legions and thus the empire could not be maintained towards the end of the empire. Crimes of violence made the streets of the larger cities unsafe. Even during PaxRomana there were 32,000 prostitutes in Rome. Emperors like Nero and Caligula became infamous for wasting money on lavish parties where guests ate and drank until they became ill. The most popular amusement was watching the gladiatorial combats in the Colosseum. These were attended by the poor, the rich, and frequently the emperor himself. As gladiators fought, vicious cries and curses were heard from the audience. One contest after another was staged in the course of a single day. Should the ground become too soaked with blood, it was covered over with a fresh layer of sand and the performance went on."
In and of himself, it is impossible for man to maintain a high standard of morals. A common religion of our time is one of moralism, and many evangelicals tend to preach moralism without even realizing they are.
Moralism seeks to achieve perfection through behavior modification. It often accompanies the religion of "family values" that we hear about each day on the radio. This kind of religion risks self-righteously looking down on unbelievers by putting our supposed morality in a comparison with theirs.
It is as if we believe our entrance into Christianity is by grace but that our lives in Christ are due to our maintained by some kind of moralism. Those who believe this fall into the trap of (at least subconsciously) believing that is not grace alone that make us to differ with others.
"But by the grace of God, go I." I would agree that a culture of elitists with bogus morals, led to political corruption, a welfare state, and a religion of self, ultimately led to the fall of Rome and will ultimately lead to the fall of the USA. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/14/2008 8:28:21 PM | I am in support of the theory.
Corruption and moral decline have never brought good news. Why would it be different in the case of America?
Yes, Romans were primitive and barbarian. IN fact not having universal health care in America is primitive. Killing people with a war of power is barbarian. I don't see the difference, frankly, except that today the political forces are much better at public relations and at lying their face off. At least Romans did not spend their time at useless meetings......they went directly to the killing | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/14/2008 8:29:13 PM | ^^^ please read more real history books about Rome ^^^
and leave the Christian BS dogma out of this ....
oh by the way ... Christianity came out of Rome ... and that inquisitional church is still there.
Economics will be more the cause and was more the cause than false moral standards.
Rome outstripped its ability to feed its people and supply the goods across the Empire.
Its army was too big and expensive and scattered to be effective against the economic collapse.
Cities need to be supplied by large areas and once the goods are cut off for whatever reason ... people rob and steal and become violent. Its not morals ... its will to survive.
read more about human nature and population density experiments done with rats and chimps etc. All of god's creatures get violent when there are too many of them in a restricted area and the food supply starts to get short.
And the Romans were not primitive. [read more about primitive people]
Romans were the pinnacle of modern at the time and it was a long time before anyone came close to being as civilized as the Romans after the collapse
 | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/14/2008 8:34:11 PM | All of god's creatures get violent when there are too many of them in a restricted area and the food supply starts to get short
I hope you are kidding......We are not animals, you know.....at least we shouldn't be, especially in a society that is supposedly advanced like the US. We are not talking about the Third World....
I know history very well, by the way, especially the history of the Romans, since I come from there.
Economics is driven by psychological needs. Psychological needs are conditioned by the level of spiritual and moral evolvement. Therefore, once the basic survival needs are met ....... it is the time for moral choices.
The corrupted politicians in America are not starving animals or are they?
Selfishness and greed don't come from luck of food, my dear, but from wanting always more and from never being content with what one has. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/14/2008 8:39:01 PM | if economics were simply driven by psychological needs we wouldn't have the problems with them that we have.
And .... People are ..... Mamals and only one of god's creatures ......
we are not independant of the rest of life on this planet and the thought that we are is the biggest moral mistake that people make and the cause of much of our economic problems and the poor stewartship that has been going on in our history.
read some more.
its not corrupt politicians that are starving people and putting underprivilaged and sick people in jail and not schooling them as much as greedy stockholders or at least greedy fund managers and voters.
Greedy drug dealers and pharmacutical boards of directors and chemical company managment and stockholders ... etc.
not much different than the money changers in the temple that Jesus freaked on.
some things never change.
the whole idea of charging money to borrow something is against the basic moral standards originally presented to society for it to work properly.
the seven deadly sins have always been with us and always will be in this material world.
Civilizations rise and fall mostly from using resourses... not from psychological needs.
they are real physical needs and the population expands and expands and eventually outstrips its resourses. That will be the downfall of this present day modern society.
| |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/14/2008 8:46:15 PM | who said that we are independent creatures?
What I have stated is that american values have been upside down for a way too long. There are consequences for that. History repeats itself: it's no mystery.
I did not say that economics is simply driven by psychological needs. I have said that after the survival needs are met (basically food and shelter), the driving forces become psychological ones. Even a 6 y.o. kid would have gotten that.
And for the record, I am not a christian.
Insult me a bit more and you will see how much of a non-christian I am.
The economy at the time of the Roman Empire cannot be compared to the economy in modern America. Even when economy is bad, political and social choices can make the difference. Americans are not starving......they simply have been living above their means for a way toooo long, with the political class complacent. Money and resources have gone to waste; social policies have gone down the drain..... Why did the economy collapse? Not for lack of resources, but for mismanagement and greed as causes. Not to mention what has been down to nature....all over the world, with other nations complacents.....And the show goes on. | |
|
| Can the fall of Ancient Rome Compare to American Now?
Posted: 10/14/2008 8:59:26 PM | I know history very well, by the way, especially the history of the Romans, since I come from there.
Economics is driven by psychological needs. Psychological needs are conditioned by the level of spiritual and moral evolvement. Therefore, once the basic survival needs are met ....... it is the time for moral choices
well this six year old reads that as you saying Economics is driven by psychological needs. .....
so you come from Rome .... big deal. read more of their history.
the morals did not break down their society as much as lead poisoning did ....
and even with that .... the inability to supply their army and city was the actual cause of the downfall.
they had had unrest in the cities before and government cues etc. and a new head took over. until .... the supply chain stopped then old enemies took advantage of the situation and good bye Rome .... but the eastern empire continued for hundreds of more years. Then Muslim morals sacked Christian morals ....
then later Christian morals sacked muslim morals
and on and on we go.
Oh and the christian dogma comment was meant for the post above you that you replied to in some sort of agreement but not with the Christian twist.
if you check the times ... you just happened to slip in above me.
but I guess you would have to be a 6 year old to figure that out. | |
|
Home
login 
