|
|
|
|
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 3/27/2009 9:27:21 AM | Alyosha,
I agree...and in that there is interaction as you say; since for me -mostly- mind is feeling, thought is feeling, and feeling is an intermediary between (for a lack of a better set of words): reason and emotion, logic and sensation perhaps.....
In Timaeus, Plato's cosmological dialogue, there were supposed to be 4 interlocutors in the dialogue, but at the initial meeting, the fourth interlocutor, did not attend, because he was not feeling well, and so only three were engaged in dialogue as I recall.
Was this of any significance? It was for Carl Jung in that for him thinking and feeling are the same. The other interlocutors had to step in for the interlocutor who was not feeling well, since that demonstrates only one attribute of the missing fourth member to thought, that he was not feeling well enough.
The next cosmological treatise published in the history of western intellectual tradition then was Isaac Newton's "Principia Physica"....almost 2 centuries later, but was this nothing more than an account of the physical nature of reality? Apparently there are no alchemical writings in the Principia, but Isaac Newton was learned in alchemy, and wrote some stuff about alchemy. So maybe the Principles are alchemical......
http://www.alchemylab.com/isaac_newton.htm
from "Newton the Alchemist"
Sir Isaac Newton, the famous seventeenth-century mathematician and scientist, though not generally known as an alchemist, practiced the art with a passion. Though he wrote over a million words on the subject, after his death in 1727, the Royal Society deemed that they were "not fit to be printed." The papers were rediscovered in the middle of the twentieth century and most scholars now concede that Newton was first an foremost an alchemist. It is also becoming obvious that the inspiration for Newton's laws of light and theory of gravity came from his alchemical work.
Was feeling left out of Newton's Principia? or was the subject simply much more narrow? | |
|
| |
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 3/28/2009 10:16:49 PM | Just as I wouldn't want a brain surgeon being swamped by his feelings, neither was their a valuable use for feelings when Newton was cataloguing physical facts. Actually respect and admiration is deserved for scientists and all who work closely with the facts of the physical world and the human body. Yet, in immersing oneself in the act of delineating concrete facts re: humans and the earth, surely these very people must pause and reflect on the absolute zaniness and complexity that life on earth delivers. Remember all work and no play makes Jack a very dull boy. Or something like that.
And...wise people do not create problems but they also must contend with the many that eventually visit one's existence. | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/1/2009 3:50:59 PM | | Wisdom can be equated to the understanding of the human condition. That wisdom is always human-centric is, I think, the crucial point that hasn't yet been brought up on this forum (unless I missed it - hard to read 12 pages of posts). You can have a great understanding of mathematics, or biology, or quantum physics or any other sphere of knowledge and still not be wise. It is only by relating this knowledge to the human condition, that one can become wiser. Therefore, the ultimate question, when it comes to wisdom, is "how should a human life be lived and what is man's place within the universe?". To be truly wise , that question must not only be answered, but the answer understood and internalized in such a way that one lives in congruence with it. As such, one can rationally say that ultimate wisdom is out of reach of humanity. | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/1/2009 8:50:44 PM | | I think that the mystery of just living without answers is much more tantalizing and possibly,ultimately, the final answer. Life is a mystery...but! in this mystery are the wise. Again, who are they? Not many can live in this electric tension of existential query without some rationale or another. Be it Science, be it God, Atheism, etc, etc. | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/2/2009 4:35:53 AM |
I think that the mystery of just living without answers is much more tantalizing and possibly,ultimately, the final answer. Life is a mystery...but! in this mystery are the wise. Again, who are they? Not many can live in this electric tension of existential query without some rationale or another. Be it Science, be it God, Atheism, etc, etc.
As stated by an intellectual hero of mine:
"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong... I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me."
Feynman, Richard, quoted in Gleick, Genius: The life & Science of Richard Feynman, p. 438 | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/2/2009 7:40:16 AM | Youth is the expereince of learning
Maturity is the experience of knowing
Wisdom is accepting the things you can and cannot change, the ability to know to the difference ,and finally being quiet | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/2/2009 8:49:53 PM |
Throughout my life I have strived for Wisdom. I believe it is the great comfort of Old Age and the reason that we live. What is Wisdom? I do not believe that Wisdom resides exclusively in any of the accepted disciplines...be they scientific, philosophical, etc. Please offer all and any definition.
King Solomon prayed for it ~ and it was given.
Wisdom enable one to see end game play by the 7th move.
Wisdom kills fear
Wisdom is light in a world of darkness
Wisdom is manifested knowledge put in motion.
Dance | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/2/2009 9:16:25 PM | Hermeneutics espouses varies methodologies of which must be grounded within
the "threshold of life" itself. Hiedegger critized the "giving of rules for
understanding." There is in any a case a situational context for
interpretation of words that fall on willing ears.
Langer in "Philosophy in a New Key" explains how interpretation is used to
convey meaning. Beginning with signification, denotation, connotation and
symbol, she explains how words are used. Denotation is the word cast in
stone, connotation is more contextual in terms of dwelling place, and
signification is open to interpretation since it is clear as "the sign that
shows the way". The sign of a path in the forest that has been there for
millenium is but a narrow shadow in the lichen. The trees along the way have
old dead branches. Numerous windfalls occur there too, but the sign is there
as the shadow and indentation (rut) of the path appear and disappear. Along
the stream and gully, that path becomes deep and where there are soft
soils, a rise, the path is well marked. In other places where the path is on
more firm ground, the path is hard to find. Lichen and heathers cover most
of the friable and fertile soils, the humus, and where the rocks are left
exposed there is nothing to indicate the way. This is where the path can be
lost for a time. One usually loses the path , but later the path can be
found, or another path can be found that shows a similar or better way. These
very old paths where made after a wildfire killed the trees, or later when
the forest was older and the trees were larger and widely spaced. The
remarkable thing about these paths is that they were made by deer, moose and
bear and smaller mammals. The forest path indicates it's existence with
signs, and it is a type of language containing it's own interpretive core of
intentions leading to belief or poetry. In the use of language to convey
information and truth about paths in the forest, the connotative and
denotative arise in various ways as fulfilling other messages about the role
and purpose of the forest path.
I took this path because the swing of my compass needle indicated that this
was the proper and most efficient way. It was late in the evening and I was
at least an hour from my camp at the lake. I did not want to get lost or
find myself on adverse terrain, so I chose to use the paths made by animals,
and to wait for a moment to see which direction the sun was in or the lay of
the land (where the mountains lay, the aspect and slope of the general
terrain). Two things we always do out of habit. I could just as easily use
my compass and take the straight and narrow but the paths are easier to walk
so you only need to use the compass occasionally, or not at all. You may
hear a loon from the lake. In that case you keep your ears open, listening.
Often the paths lead you in the wrong direction but not the opposite
direction. In any event the paths facilitate the passage of difficult
terrain. Eventually there will be a man made path, these are easy to follow
and find, however one does need to be circumspect about these paths since if
they are not used often they can be full of windfalls, and swampy ground, or
even worse end in nowhere for no apparent reason. The paths are often
unmarked on maps, and therefore some intuitive understanding is required to
understand where they may be going in advance since if the ground is hilly
or mountainous one can be lead entirely into the wrong (different)
watershed, and then a lot time can be spent finding the original or unique
way that leads to the camp by the lake. It is often better to abandon the
man made path and use compass and animal tracks or ridges. There are no
fence lines to follow.
Of course all that I have said here says nothing about the interpretation of
language; however an attempt has been made to explain how one finds ones way
through dense woods where there are no suitable obvious paths that go
exactly to the destination. There are many interpretive levels for paths in
the forest, depending on the situation, whether it be via the hermeneutics
of facticity or any new situation. When we cannot hear we use sign language
(standing near roaring cascading streams, skiing apart), each sign is
denotative unless we can see the expression on the signers face.
At Two Swim Birds | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/2/2009 9:52:54 PM | | Oh Trulio!! Nature has never failed me..ever. Nature teaches with no excess mercy. You get it or your don't. And if you don't there is no sentiment. Human beings are creatures beyond the animal and plant and geological elements that reside on this very zany planet. Never mind the night sky and what lies beyond. | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/2/2009 11:44:29 PM | My how complicated this thread has become.
Wisdom is and always has been the simplest of things. Not a complex formula that only the most skilled or the most intelligent can follow.
No, wisdom is something that anyone can obtain, but few consistantly do.
We all have wisdom, some more, some less. What wisdom I have gained in my life though has been aquired through experience and I would bet that would be the same with everyone else.
We use learning to aquire intelligence.
We take that intelligence and apply it, thus aquiring knowledge,
and through experiencing that knowledge, we aquire wisdom.
Therefore ~ Wisdom is knowledge experienced.
See Msg #2 | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/4/2009 9:19:21 AM | Subject:
My how complicated this thread has become.
 So true ~ but I'm sure one will agree, ~ often times ~ something requires explaining many different ways ~ before a transfer of knowledge takes place, for everyone to get it.
Each person, will absorb it , in their own time and own special way. Biblical text does this, that's why there are several different author's offering an accounting of the same event. The human mind seems to work that way ~ an imprinted vision.
I can speak of gravity and time and never mention the word "dimension"
I can speak of cotton seed and never speak of fabric. ~
So it's really not so complicated as much as each person offering a explaining a concept as they understand it. ~ some are very wordy ~ some short and simple.
I like short and simple myself, ~ but each mind must wade through all this "stuff" to get to short and simple.
It's good to go back to basics ~ every so often , ~ we might just learn something, once over looked.
Dance | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/4/2009 12:17:24 PM |
So true ~ but I'm sure one will agree, ~ often times ~ something requires explaining many different ways ~ before a transfer of knowledge takes place, for everyone to get it.
Beautifully expressed, the above and the rest of your post, but you mentioned gravity, time, cotton seed - but did not in the end provide your definition of wisdom. Of course there are times when the essence of wisdom is to refrain from speaking! | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/4/2009 9:44:57 PM |
something requires explaining many different ways - - - Each person, will absorb it , in their own time and own special way. - - -
I like short and simple myself, ~ but each mind must wade through all this "stuff" to get to short and simple.
Well said, and thanks for the reminder Dance. | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/4/2009 11:58:06 PM | | I overheard a conversation the other day between a younger and very much older lady about the older lady's move out of her present house. The older lady was vital, there, and noooo moss growing anywhere. She stepped up to the bat and got on with the journey. How wise. | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/8/2009 8:57:02 PM | Death is a good adviser
I was reading so phy ~ a few years back ~ I think in was Castanada's works ~
"Death is always just over the left shoulder. " ~ live with that in mind.
Dance | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/8/2009 9:00:57 PM | wisdom is shown by expression without a lot of words or quotes.
wisdom is knowledge applied correctly with the least effort | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/8/2009 10:25:29 PM |
wisdom is knowledge applied correctly with the least effort
I agree with what you are saying, although we could also say that wisdom is knowledge applied (in) correctly because it is in the fires of friction that molds our greatest wisdom. | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/8/2009 11:12:26 PM | Keep this philosophy in mind the next time you either hear, or are about to repeat, a rumour.
In ancient Greece(469 - 399 BC), Socrates was widely lauded for his wisdom. One day the great philosopher came upon an acquaintance who ran up to him excitedly and said, "Socrates, do you know what I just heard about one of your students called Plato?"
"Wait a moment," Socrates replied. "Before you tell me I'd like you to pass a little test. It's called the Triple Filter Test.""Triple filter?" "That's right,"
Socrates continued. "Before you talk to me about my student let's take a moment to filter what you're going to say.
The first Filter is Truth. Have you made absolutely sure that what you are about to tell me is true?"
"No," the man said, "actually I just heard about it and..."
"All right," said Socrates. "So you don't really know if it's true or not.
Now let's try the second filter, the Filter of Goodness. Is what you are about to tell me about my student something good?"
"No, on the contrary..."
"So," Socrates continued, "you want to tell me something bad about him, even though you're not certain it's true?"
The man shrugged, a little embarrassed.
Socrates continued. " You may still pass the test though, because there is a third filter - the Filter of Usefulness. Is what you want to tell me about my student going to be useful to me?"
"No, not really..."
"Well," concluded Socrates, "if what you want to tell me is neither True, nor Good, nor even Useful, why tell it to me at all?"
The man was defeated and ashamed.
This is the reason Socrates was a great philosopher and held in such high esteem..........
*
*
*
It also explains why he never found out that Plato was shagging his wife.
.... anxiety is a state of mind? | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/9/2009 3:33:03 AM | Recipes for wisdom, particularly ancient ones, tend to have a remedial character.
I feel to achieve wisdom one must cut away all the debris that fills one's head on emergence from childhood, leaving only the important stuff.
Both self-control and experience have this effect: to eliminate the random biases that come from your own nature and from the circumstances of your upbringing respectively.
That's not all wisdom is, but I think maybe it's a large part of it.
Much of what's in the sage's head is also in the head of every twelve year old.
The difference is that in the head of the twelve year old it's mixed together with a lot of random junk that may take some time to filter out. | |
|
| |
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/9/2009 10:13:06 AM | Proverbs 4-5-9
Get wisdom! Get understanding! Do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth. Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you; Love her, and she will keep you. Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding. Exalt her, and she will promote you; She will bring you honor, when you embrace her. She will place on your head an ornament of grace; A crown of glory she will deliver to you." | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/9/2009 10:29:10 PM | | The "songs" of the Bible drive many to distraction and anger. Too, too bad. These words supplemented by the palpatable poetic music are indeed beautiful. Let them sing. There is never an end ...to the need... for the music of living. | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/23/2009 12:31:15 AM | In referring to will as a psychological act [most likely as volition, deliberation, choosing, evaluation, et cetera], the analysis related to cognition of what occurs during willing, is restricted. Restricting the analysis to consciousness makes me think that will has a connection solely to knowing, and perceiving. However there are processes and acts which are not known or perceived. For example, evolutionary processes which occur in geological time. Consciousness and the cognition's arising within consciousness if they extend to temporality indefinitely cannot have much to offer on will and being. Cognition's of this sort are inferential, and inferential wisdom can vary.
This distinction leads to further relating psychological function to knowing. The attitude for my point takes on generally the form of a 'proposition', and it is not especially evaluative nor effective. The natural attitude [attitudinal proposition] which thinking [or feeling] is composed of, essentially, reveals what is whole.
Force gives direction.
I meant force as term denoting power. For instance in the phrase 'lines of force' the observer is presented with visual features which dominate, and direct the understanding. Other examples may be motion, act, and so on. Cognitions include primitive and primary intuitions. Much of what occurs as will therefore is not a cognition, a psychological event, rather something else. For instance, in the past, many theories and explanations regarding natural events where mixed up with theology, mythology, and other forms of knowledge. However many natural events have no connection nor relation to these specific forms of cognition 'theological, mythological]; rather have connections with other natural events and appear to have no will or agency status. Thus most 'knowledge' and many cognitions were primarily 'symbolic'. When the cognitions are clarified as to what they really are, then the natural attitude, or proposition, has arrived at will [Nietzsche's "will to power" thus is synonymous with Nature]. Laws arise from a discovery of reality [Plato, Statesman]. Nature as all inclusive Reality, thus has power since it will all into existence. However a false or specious Idea regarded [cognitinve disability] cannot be corrected except via a Recognition of the reality behind it. So there is a causual connection and relation between cognition and will, but it is not primarily psychological, unless we were to restrict the analysis to human cognitive sciences. What has emotion to do with this? Emotion are changes, bodily changes and are not 'states of mind'; states of mind are more lasting and are specifically not 'bodily changes' and may or may not relate or be connected to something real, nay they can be about nothing, as in anxiety.
The object of the will is to arrive at certainty, if it is solely cognitive; but it is also the object of the will to arrive at uncertainty [to make uncertain] if it is ontological and phenomenological. Certainty in the sense of Nature is always undetermined since all is in a state of perpetual change, but not cognition.
"Our empirical propositions do not form a homogeneous mass." [Unsre 'Erfahrungssatze' bilden nicht eine homogene Masse.] Ludvig Wittgenstein, On Certainty.
"Can I be in doubt about *will*?" Ludvig Witgenstein, On Certainty.
With metaphysical propositions there is room for doubt but only for those things which we do not know anything about, of that which we are not satisfied about. A clear illogicality since metaphysics is the study of what is ultimately real, and knowable. A child who wills to know what the thing is called cannot effect this will unless he has learned in general what a thing is called, the concept 'what is called.'
amities | |
|
| Wisdom..what indeed is Wisdom?
Posted: 4/23/2009 9:16:25 PM | | With all due respect for all you have offered....there should not be a separation between the mind, the emotions, the will, the tension of human existence. All works together in a delicate but necessary symphony. One facet may overpower the other, but correction is inevitable. Peace. | |
|
|
| Page 12 of 17
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 |
|
Home
login 
