| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 12:27:48 PM | Lil Brooker, you've hit the nail on the head. BPD is an insidious disorder. Therapy is rarely effective. But identifying the disorder can be helpful. My kids and I went through it with my PBD ex (disclaimer: she's not officially diagnosed with BPD, and probably never will get close enough to a shrink to be officially diagnosed, but she shows the symptoms)
Quixotically, its the partners and others involved in a BPD's life that can benifit from therapy. Running away can be effective too!
Canoist | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 12:39:13 PM |
you've hit the nail on the head. BPD is an insidious disorder. for fvck sakes.
In the real world, only a trained psychiatrist can diagnose something like borderline personality disorder, after a thorough examination process.
So why they hell do untrained people, think they have the ability to make a complete psychiatric diagnosis just by reading a few vague sentences about the person in an online forum? | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 1:02:54 PM | What's the saying, friends of a feather flock together, or something like that...
Are you still pal-ing around with the rapist? How about the pedophile?
Everyone has their 'thing'. History is history, right?
The hardest thing in life to come to grips with are the lies we tell our selves...
I hope there is hopeinva... no lie.
Cute story comes to mind about the fellow who picks up the scorpion to save it from drowning in the puddle - scorpion stings him, he drops it. Picks it up again - gets stung again. When asked why - he says it's in his nature to help - in the scorpions to sting.
Just keep bending over and grabbing your ankles hopeinva - there's plentyoffish ready and willing to burst your bubble... it's in your nature! 
Think about the statement "In order to have a friend, you have to be a friend..." and remember that it begins and ends with you!
Let go of your ankles, pullup your panties and join the rest of us walking with our heads above our arses...  | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 1:10:09 PM | it looks like he tries to bullshit and make you think another way
my ex is the same way. were still friends bu ti know i can't only believe about 2% of what he says
which pretty much covers his name. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 1:13:47 PM | you've hit the nail on the head. BPD is an insidious disorder.
for fvck sakes.
In the real world, only a trained psychiatrist can diagnose something like borderline personality disorder, after a thorough examination process.
Not really. Obviously, you have never had "the privilege" of a BPD relationship. The disorder is most manifested in their intimate relationships, not in outside relationships. Makes it very mindf*cking for the partner. My ex could protect himself with great talent and emerge from a psychiatrict office with a gold medal for mental health. And he did.
For your information, it is written that many mental professionals will refuse to treat BPDs for fear of getting emotionally enmeshed with them. Their damage is so profound and their survival tactics are so necessary that they can hide it all when necessary. I am the last person on earth to condemn them and am only filled with compassion for their pain. They are truly innocent victims.
However, I believe that an intimate partner (moreso than a stranger psychotherapist) is the most valid person to note the disorder. The OP noted two distinguishing elements of BPD - incredible lying and cheating. It *warrants* a look into the criteria; they are available on-line in the DSM IV criteria. For the OP's sake, it could be mental health saviour. The partners of BPDs suffer emotionally.
Please, for an erroneous possibilty of a mistake, let me give a heads up for a fellow poster. It was done for me and at the time, I was seriously falling down the rabbit hole. I am forever grateful to that cyber helping hand. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 2:42:17 PM |
As an aside, BPDs will often try to re-engage you into their lives. It's called "hoovering" as in the vacuum cleaner. I feel for you
Lil Brooker is correct in this that people who suffer from PD (Personality Disorder) don’t give closure after the relationship has crash and burned. Also most PD’s are in fact pathological liars which again is just the symptom of a much deeper psychological dilemma. Professional trained people who try to deal with them found it frustrating draining and most just give up or the client just quit coming to their sessions. What possible hope is there for us laypeople in dealing with them? So I agree with the other posters unless you “need” to have some contact with this person, I wouldn’t. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 2:54:13 PM |
I have been friends with my ex now for a couple of years and though he was a cheater and a liar when we were together, I prefer to look at the more positive aspects of his character. All our history is water under the bridge and not an issue to me anymore and yet I find that for no reason whatsoever he still lies to me. Maybe it's a pathological thing, some emotional difficulty that he has never tried to deal with but I find it disturbing because it makes me feel he may have a hidden agenda in trying to appear to be someone he is not and involve me in his life again. Any thoughts?
~OP~ First of all, all of the "arm-chair-psychologists" need a degree of some reasonable sort to diagnose someone's "issues" and quite frankly, I don't believe those exist here on POF. Sigh.  I'm with you. My ex is an azz. He's caused me grief for a very long time, including this past weekend. So what???? I've moved on, someone loves me very much ~ his loss. I prefer to view the good things he gave to my life and yes, there were some. Water under the bridge is exactly what history is and if those here don't get it ~ add them to the "misery" that loves to wallow here in POF forums. I've gotten jaded previously due to the comments here ~~~~~ shame on me!! My bad. Someone recently asked me what I think a "man-hater" is ~ well ...... doesn't take much to gather that info. Just read a few Broken Hearts, or a few of these threads you address. There are those of us who love the opposite sex, who treasure them and who realize we are part of the problem in that particular situation'. Those like you ~ one step ahead of the rest. You'll be just fine!!! Love him for the positive things....leave the rest. You'll benefit in the end. Good luck to ya. JMO  | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 3:02:26 PM |
Quixotically, its the partners and others involved in a BPD's life that can benifit from therapy. Running away can be effective too!
Interesting is that most psychotherapist see and treat only the victim of this disorder and not the person who cause the emotional abuse. Some unless order by the courts or some other legal reason refuse to go and be tested. Also many Trained Professionals admit that for some therapy can make them worst insomuch they learn how to fool even the psychotherapist themselves. Many professional that deal with APD (Antisocial Personality Disorders) have see this happen many many times in the course of their careers. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 3:35:57 PM |
~OP~ First of all, all of the "arm-chair-psychologists" need a degree of some reasonable sort to diagnose someone's "issues" and quite frankly, I don't believe those exist here on POF.
How do you know that? In fact you don’t and just made a assumption and we all know what happens so ever we assume anything.
Sigh. I'm with you. My ex is an azz. He's caused me grief for a very long time, including this past weekend. So what????
People who allow bad behavior are called enablers that refuse to see or do anything about the problem(s) and then because part of the problem(s).
I've moved on, someone loves me very much ~ his loss
No whenever two people who loved each other once and when it ends both partner suffer to some degree. Also both share this loss not just one. Wouldn’t you agree?
I prefer to view the good things he gave to my life and yes, there were some. Water under the bridge is exactly what history is and if those here don't get it ~ add them to the "misery" that loves to wallow here in POF forums.
This statement defines other people here in POF or everywhere really. No one has the right to define another person.
I've gotten jaded previously due to the comments here ~~~~~ shame on me!!
I am sure you have and no doubt will be in the future.
Someone recently asked me what I think a "man-hater" is ~ well ...... doesn't take much to gather that info. Just read a few Broken Hearts, or a few of these threads you address.
Really no comment on this one for it speaks for itself.
There are those of us who love the opposite sex, who treasure them and who realize we are part of the problem in that particular situation'. Those like you ~ one step ahead of the rest. You'll be just fine!!! Love him for the positive things....leave the rest. You'll benefit in the end. Good luck to ya. JMO
Again people who define other people see them as themselves. Denying that person who is define their own individuality and personal power. Most people who understand this see how silly and backward it really is. In truth no one knows how another person feels thinks or what they likes or dislikes. And if they do they really being dishonest with those they define and themselves as well. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 4:24:56 PM | Ferruginous says in msg 28 "In the real world, only a trained psychiatrist can diagnose something like borderline personality disorder, after a thorough examination process."
I beg to differ. Some disorders, such as BPD take an incredibly long time to diagnose. Longer than your insurance will pay, longer than the BPD person is usually willing to put up with, and longer than the patience of many psychiatrists. But the partner has already spent several years with this person, and can easily see the symptoms.
But having a diagnosis, even if it is from an amateur, is a VERY important step in getting help for the partners, parents, siblings, children, co-workers, etc who deal with this person on a regular basis.
Having a label for a problem person in your life helps you to connect with others who have dealt with the same problem (there's on-line groups), helps you find books and other information, and helps you to help the other people who are also dealing with this person (in my case, to help my children)
Don't disparage an amateur diagnosis. It may be the only and best option. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 5:36:27 PM | | This message pretty much hit home in all the responses to my query. I can see the traits that I lived with for 8 years in your description and the hoovering description matches to a tee. No, I never had children with this man, he is not part of my personal life but is a part of my professional life. I have remained friends with him in the same way I have with my other ex, I see no percentage in being bitter and I do care for the people I have shared my life with and wish them well. There will never be another opportunity for the lies to damage my heart, I took that back long ago. I just don't understand what the purpose is for lying at this stage. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 6:12:12 PM |
I just don't understand what the purpose is for lying at this stage.
I don't know if your ex is BPD or not and I hope some of the other posters understand this. I just wanted you to look into the disorder, because if it is indeed the case, there is a lot of help for *you* in books, counselling and on-line specific forums. The bewildering aspects with which you dealt and are continuing to deal will find more clarity.
Maybe the best person to explain why a BPD lies is a BPD in recovery. This is what I understand. A BPD lives in a world of black and white, no grey shades. People are either all good or all bad. They cannot accept that good people have faults and this is ESPECIALLY true about the BPD him/herself. If the BPD were to ever accept a fault in themself, it would be akin to accepting that they are horrible, black and not worthy of life itself (and many do commit suicide). Consequently, every miserable and thoughtless thing they ever did or said is rewritten in their mind to be something innocuous or better yet of merit. To make the deed *resemble* the history of what happened or what was said they may switch roles and make you the culprit.
Essentially, the lying is a way to preserve a good self image and worth. It is mandatory to survival. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 6:24:39 PM | | MOVE ON !!! ...................... Stop wasting your time with LOSERS ................................................................................................. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 7:26:40 PM |
I just don't understand what the purpose is for lying at this stage.
There is no purpose. Here, see this:
http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/confront_a_liar/public/pathological-compulsive.html
Chances are he's more of a compulsive liar than a pathological liar. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 7:29:00 PM | The lying obviously does not bother you that much.
Even if he was just a friend I couldn't put up with it. I'm assuming if you are involved professionally that you are not concerned with his deceit reflecting negatively on you. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 7:32:08 PM | | Once a cheater always a cheater. I think the same goes for lying. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 7:53:16 PM | | I dont get it why you have to ask, so he has to lie. Dont ask, you wont hear a lie; did you ever think about that. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 8:37:23 PM | I am going to do you a favour like someone once did for me. Look up BPD - Borderline Personality Disorder - and see if the criteria fits your ex. I was in a bewildering relationship with a brilliant, extraordinary, kind and generous man who despite all the love he demonstrated towards me, cheated and lied like a child who denied stealing cookies even when he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar. None of it made any sense, almost to the point that I had doubts about my own sanity, memory and perceptions.
My jaw hit the keyboard in recognition when I read the criteria. If this happens to you, don't do what I did which is believe that once the problem was identified, it could be fixed.
As an aside, BPDs will often try to re-engage you into their lives. It's called "hoovering" as in the vacuum cleaner. I feel for you.
...Wow, that's really interesting. I looked up BPD and it describes a person who was/is still part of our family. It's very frustrating dealing with her....I never know whether to believe her or not, and your right, she has the ability to drag me into the drama that has become her life. She has caused many a rift within the family on more than one occasion because of her constant lies.
I have known this particular lady for approximately 10 years and she continues on with her lies and making up stories. I say, if you don't have to involve yourself with this man, than don't, he obviously feeds off the deception somehow....a friendship based on lies is not a healthy one.
...maeflowers | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 8:55:14 PM | Agree with Cowboy. My first husband was a very nice, good man but the man was also a patholoical liar. Usually they were things that were not deceptive in the normal sense, just avoid dealing with a situation. The thing that made it pathological was that it seemed the moment the lie came out it became the truth to him.
His agenda really doesn't matter. If you enjoy the way things are then take them at face value. You know that he lies but that affects you how? With everyone we set boundaries so if, for example, it might be hurtful to you if he declined an invitation with a lie rather than just telling you he didn't want to go or the real reason he begged off. You know this, so if he does this, you don't take it personally.
Friends of any sort are different. They fill different roles in your life. Some or more acquaintance than friends, the ones that won't go much out of their way to help you, and then there are those you know you can count on under any circumstances. So you think of this guy like one of your more fair weather friends.
You may share a lot and really care for him but the bottom line is that he is probably at about the level of fair weather friend in terms of the behavior you can expect of him. The beauty of being friends with an X is that you know that they are like this, you can enjoy their company and friendship without allowing yourself to become upset that they are not more than who they are.
As for the involving you in his life, I assume you mean his drama, and that is a quick fix, set the boundaries and let him know that there are certain things that you feel are disrespectful and if he wishes to be your friend, you would like him to behave accordingly. You also tell him that he is never to lie to anyone else about you, i.e. I can't because I have a prior engagement with Jane. How then can he hurt you? Is there a fear that you could fall for him again? | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 9:07:23 PM | I was engaged to a guy who ended up being a liar. It was his way of building himself up.. and being in control and it was his way of handling an over bearing mother and a verbally abusive father.
Basically I hate liars.. even people who lie for the good of another.. I just hate it.. and after I found out this guy was a constant liar.. I never would have respect for him.
One day when I refused to back up one of his lies to his mother he got mad and nearly hit me.
I am glad I will never see him again.. but bottom line some people exist by lying.. and they won't ever change till they decide to change. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/2/2008 10:24:20 PM | Honey, why do skunks stink??????? Why do bees sting????? Why does a Hemerroid HURT when you have a strained bowel movement???
A spade is A spade is a spade:0 | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/3/2008 12:10:41 AM | | my first thought when reading this posting was... why does it have to be a HIM??? Not that I'm chewing anyones butt here, but why so sexually discriminative? I have an ex that I've done determined is a chronic and habitual liar. Like you, even after our divorce and years down the road, she still lies to me. But it doesn't surprise me that much because of all the lies i've seen and heard her say, from her family, to me and kids, to government assistant agencies. She'll say what she wants us to hear, so that it makes her look good and keeps her outta the fire, obviously, no matter the cost. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/3/2008 7:13:03 AM | RedneckDaddy, if there were more lesbians among us, there would be more responses that women lie too.
The OP is a woman, asked a question from her perspective, people are giving their perspective, not gender bashing. Obviously people of both sexes lie. | |
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| why does he still lie?
Posted: 11/3/2008 8:39:33 AM | | I don't know, some people just can't speak without lying. Even when you know the truth they look you right in the eyes and lie. Some people lie because they can't get someone just being themselves or they do it because they are pathetic. I feel sorry for people who can't just be honest, it's like they are "sick" and need serious help. | |
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