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c7t1
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Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 226 | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/21/2008 10:29:13 PM | Higgy
I did not contradict myself by distinguishing between “survival sex” and a college student prostituting herself as a means of paying for college. While both involve coercion…prostitution is sex by coercion…the first is beyond the control of the individual, the latter is within the control of the individual.
if you take out a psych 101 book and check out maslow's hierarchy of needs you'll see that going to “college” is not a basic a need for survival. i.e., food, water, shelter, etc. there is a distinction between a “comfort woman” circa wwii, and a college student living in berlin circa 2002, just as there is a difference between a hazara mother of two living just outside of Kabul - who is prevented upon threat of death from working- selling sex in order to feed her children, and a 22 yr old coed from Wisconsin hawking herself on the streets of las vegas.
This young woman decided to be a prostitute when she had other options, namely applying for aid, grants, and working fulltime while going to school part time. She was not deprived of her basic human rights. This young woman said she did this to pay for college she did do this to support a two year old while living under the Taliban. The distinction here is an obvious one. If you can not see the distinction you are either being intellectually dishonest out of a desire to be “right, “ or you have an IQ under 90. one would be under your control and the other obviously would not.
The condemnation ultimately lies with society itself. Living in the developed world we have embraced the idea that prostitution is “no big deal.” That truth is it is a big deal. Prostitution since time immemorial has resulted in the enslavement and abuse of millions and millions of women and children the world over. Those who dismiss it as “no big deal” add legitimacy to this barbarism. I’m sorry, that is something I am not going to be apathetic about. It’s not about religion, it’s not about “judging,” and it’s not about some Victorian coquettishness. It’s about basic human rights. It’s a human rights issue.
...and legalizing it in one place only gives it legitimacy elsewhere.. to devestating effects...
When people act like prostitution is ‘no big deal,” and say, “but it’s the world’s oldest profession,” I have but one response and that is that there is another profession that has also been around just as long, and that profession is slave trading.
Today it is doubtful that any liberal minded individual would raise their voice to defend such a repugnant institution as slavery. And it was not too long ago that slavery was completely accepted throughout the world, even by those who didn’t own slaves themselves. It was legitimate. And it was legal. It was regulated. And it was barbaric.
Well, we eradicated slavery in much of the world, and just like slavery we should work to eradicate prostitution. But as long as people condone it, or pretend that it is “no big deal” this barbarism will continue to exist.
And let’s not mince any words here, those who defend it, minimize its tragedy, and are complicit collaborators are no better then the slave trader or the slaver owner. For whether they are active participants, or apathetically indifferent the net effect is still the same: so-called tolerance for what by the standards of basic human rights should be intolerable.
And yeah, those judgmental people are just awful to have around, aren’t they? They do pesky things like call the police when they see someone breaking into the neighbor’s house. They are so awful that when someone leaves their wallet or cell phone in the public bathroom they turn it in to the lost and found. To make it worse, you don’t have to worry about them sleeping with your boyfriend or girlfriend, and for shame they might even call 911 if they see a drunk driver swerving all over the highway.
Yeah, those judgmental people sure make the world a horrible place, don’t they? They are just intolerable. Wouldn’t the world be a better place without ‘em? Yeah, I think so. While we’re at it, let’s not judge, let’s bring back slavery, and who am I to judge, right? While we’re at it, let’s not worry about pedophilia either. It doesn’t effect me, so why should I care. It’s not a “big deal.” (the reason I mentioned slavery and pedophilia is because I wanted to illustrate that there are topics upon which you yourself would most likely wax judgmental. I realize this is a false dilemma dressed as a straw man).
lar | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/22/2008 1:13:39 AM | | This is one of those things that you can either accept or not. Decide which, and proceed or break it off. But don't try to find reasons to continue with her if you could ever imagine using the information against her for any reason, such as, say in an argument or a custody battle. Remember, there are men out there that kill people for a living, and yet there are women who will accept them. So this should be a no brainer. | |
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tort2
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Joined: 11/21/2005
Msg: 230 | |
| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/22/2008 6:10:15 AM | Hold on a second Lar, since when is doing what one desires and getting paid "enslavement" ?
Unlike women forced into prostitution (numerous examples here in the NYC area of Chinese and Mexican gangs using illegal aliens as hookers), your typical run of the mill hooker either goes solo, or teams up with a pimp for protection and prestige (weird, but some hookers brag about how 'tight' their 'man/pimp' is). Your lumping prostitution and women who go that route with enslavement of women is being naive. Additionally, its also being unacceptably arrogant and closed-minded.
Who are we (you in particular) to tell a woman what to do with her body? If an athlete (think Michael Jordon) can make millions of dollars off his body (the ability to jump and shoot a basket through a hoop), then why should anyone say to a woman that she can't take advantage of her physical attractiveness to make some money? What is the difference between, lets say you, rocking your boyfriend's world in bed, and in gratitude he buys you a diamond ring from Tiffany, and a hooker who rocks your boyfriend's world and he pays her $500 ?
I thought so. | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/22/2008 6:25:51 AM |
Hold on a second Lar, since when is doing what one desires and getting paid "enslavement" ?
You're assuming that what they are doing is a 'desire'.
Just because you get paid for something doesn't mean it is not enslavement. That is why unions were developed in the early years of the last century.
Or would you prefer working at your job for pennies an hour? Is that your 'desire'?
What is the difference between, lets say you, rocking your boyfriend's world in bed, and in gratitude he buys you a diamond ring from Tiffany, and a hooker who rocks your boyfriend's world and he pays her $500 ?
About the same as your wife or girlfriend MAKING YOU PAY her EVERY time you have sex instead of doing it out of love. | |
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tort2
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Joined: 11/21/2005
Msg: 232 | |
| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/22/2008 6:42:40 AM | You're assuming that what they are doing is a 'desire'.
Just because you get paid for something doesn't mean it is not enslavement. That is why unions were developed in the early years of the last century.
Or would you prefer working at your job for pennies an hour? Is that your 'desire'?
Chancelore, if you get paid for engaging in some work related activity, by definition, you are NOT enslaved. By definition, slaves DO NOT get paid (they are provided basic items such as clothes, a shelter and food) but NOT wages.
Opinions may vary, but if women who are hot want to make money on the side by sleeping with men, more power to them.
Moralizing and telling people what to do with their lives is so bourgeois. | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/24/2008 11:26:13 AM |
Chancelore, if you get paid for engaging in some work related activity, by definition, you are NOT enslaved. By definition, slaves DO NOT get paid (they are provided basic items such as clothes, a shelter and food) but NOT wages.
Moralizing and telling people what to do with their lives is so bourgeois.
So is trying to nitpick other's opinions.
Slavery is a question of degree also. A person working in a sweat shop making Levi jeans for 16 hours a day gets pennies in payment and is still a slave.
I'm not talking about the stereotypical version of slavers owning plantations.
Many women work as sex slaves until they 'pay off' their loans that got them into the country. Sometimes it takes years, sometimes never. | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/24/2008 10:07:07 PM | There are a BUNCH of responses on here so I am sure this has probably already been said but I will just say it again. Man up. Love her. Period.
She wants you and you want her. You are both at that spot in your lives where you are supposed to be together. her past is something that she needed to share with you and you have to be man enough to handle that and know that she ended up with you... she wants you.
There is a great scene in a movie about this.
here is the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFw7Myb34zw
your chasing amy. | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/25/2008 1:20:38 AM | | I guess it comes to the point of how much do you love her.We all have a past,some more colourful than others.Guess this is the first real test in the long road ahead .You will have to do some hard soul searching an see if you can come to terms with it.Its part of her past,an it has help moulded her into the person she is today.Quietly list all her good points,the things you love most about her.She still technically is the same person you knew before you were told.Credit her with being so open an honest,thats not always so easy to find.Believe me there is a lot worse out there than this business from her past.Its before your time.Seek councilling to help you both.Best wishes an i hope you both make it through this. | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/25/2008 1:27:51 AM | I don't know. But I've know a few, very few high class escorts and many low class ones.
You are one of the few lucky ones that get to end up with one for real and be part of their real life. Why complicate things and ask and worry? Is she is not for you forget about it. But hey, you have and ex escort or an ex stripper, rejoice.... | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/25/2008 7:31:43 AM | People say the past is the past so why in the world is she telling the op about this?
If you really think about it she had guilt that she should have taken to her grave. By her telling the op her guilt is gone but now the op has the issue of dealing with it. Gee thanks for being so honest, now you've lifted the weight off your shoulders and put it on me.
If there are regrets for past behaviour keep it to yourself in the past and don't bring it to the present for others to worry about. | |
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Zain.
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Joined: 9/20/2005
Msg: 240 | |
| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/27/2008 10:39:18 PM | "Frequently call-girls, escorts etc, are offered more money to have sex bareback..."
and you assume that just because they are offered more money they will accept? Have you ever even spoken to an escort? I've spoken to many and I assure you none would have sex with client bareback no matter how much money was offered to them. Futhermore what makes you think johns aren't concerned with their own sexual health? I had two escorts tell me there entire time in the business they've never had a single client request bareback.
"The average prostitute services between 10-15 clients per day. "
According to what? you've got no evidence or citations to back this up.
"Now even if we consider a very high priced call girl servicing only 1 client per day, that still leaves us with some 40-50 exposed clients... "
and yet I've heard nothing about any escort or callgirl being infected with HIV or any other STD in the Toronto escort scene. (and yes I do view the message boards) yet three women caught HIV from a guy in my college residence. A friend of mine has been visiting escorts every three weeks on a regular basis for the last year and a half since his divorce and he's never been infected with an STD.
Personal experience and actually talking to people in the industry, holds alot more water then assumptions and speculations I'm afraid.
and yes I've been tested and yes I am clean
and enough with is pimping and enslavement nonsense majority of escorts here operate independently
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/28/2008 10:21:08 AM | "The average prostitute services between 10-15 clients per day. "According to what? you've got no evidence or citations to back this up.
Ummm I see, I hadn't realised they only meet one guy a night then don't have to stand on that corner until 3AM to 4AM... Funny the ones I could see from my old balcony used to come and go a dozen times a night. Must have gone for donuts and coffee with the other girls...
According to what? you've got no evidence or citations to back this up.
Ummm Actually, I usually do check my sources before I post anything. I don't always post the actual source as for the most part people can check it themselves. However, in the next case, I will post my source... one of several articles I did find....
and yet I've heard nothing about any escort or callgirl being infected with HIV or any other STD in the Toronto escort scene.
Well then maybe you'd better learn to read or watch the news too...
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/1999/10/06/escort_hiv991005.html
Escort service may have exposed men, NHL players, to HIV
Hundreds of men in Toronto, perhaps including some National Hockey League players, may have been exposed to HIV after using the services of an escort agency.
Three women who worked at the Exotica, Sweet Escorts and Sweet Sensations escort agencies between 1993 and 1998 are suspected of carrying HIV, according to Crown documents filed Tuesday. | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/28/2008 11:39:56 AM | "Hundreds of men in Toronto, perhaps including some National Hockey League players, may have been exposed to HIV"
"It is either about ..... the money ........ or ........ the effect ..."
I think it's about disease! There's nothing sexy about HIV, AIDS or the like.
OP: Think about your Health! I believe you already know your answer! | |
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Zain.
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Joined: 9/20/2005
Msg: 243 | |
| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/28/2008 12:06:14 PM | "Ummm I see, I hadn't realised they only meet one guy a night then don't have to stand on that corner until 3AM to 4AM... Funny the ones I could see from my old balcony used to come and go a dozen times a night. Must have gone for donuts and coffee with the other girls..."
I'm sure there are some prostitutes who serve a high number of clients a day. However you said the "average prostitute" serves 15 clients a day. Are you referring to escorts or streetwalkers? Futhermore where did the number 15 come from? You've got no irrefutable evidence that proves what you are saying is fact. Show me some statistics and studies from a credible source (not a news story) and maybe I'll believe you. Not every prostitute is the same.
"Well then maybe you'd better learn to read or watch the news too..."
I do read the news, current news. The article you cited is from nine years ago. The escort scene has changed in the last ten years. I did a search of my own and so far the story you cited is the only one I could find. Meaning there probably hasn't been any HIV outbreaks amoung the Toronto escort scene in the last nine years.
Don't want to take the risk? fine, don't. but don't assume every prostitute is the same. Majority of escorts are actually quite clean.
"OP: Think about your Health! I believe you already know your answer!"
If she's already been tested and is clean what's the problem? | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/28/2008 12:55:47 PM | Hi Harvey. You seem like a good guy and you seem to have already made your decision without our advice. You're a rare bird, in that you are not willing to give up on her just because of her past. Too many many men want us to be "pure as the driven snow", and it's just not realistic. It's funny how it's still ok for men to go to prostitutes, or have tons of sex partners, but it's still not ok for us to have been prostitutes, or have had tons of sex partners. As a woman, I get really tired of the double standard.
To the men on here who say "dump her", a prostitute (former, or current) is still a human being, worthy of someone's love, period.
Her being a prostitute, does not mean she's not capable of being the wonderful person you know her to be. Some girls do grow up without choices, and it can be easy for some of them to be lured into prostitution, especially if they come from extreme poverty where girls don't have many choices. But even rich girls get into prostitution sometimes. Every one is different. Just remember, that little girls don't dream of growing up and becoming escorts. So just know that her time as one, was not a "first choice" for her job wise. It never is for a woman.
But also know, that most former prostitutes, strippers, porn stars, usually find that job path, due to something that was done to them years before. I would not be surprised if she had been molested, raped or abused in some way in her past as well. So your support, is even more important. She needs to know that there's at least one guy out there who will be there for her, no matter what her past. If she knows she can trust you, and you won't throw her to the curb just because of it, she will be more open with you about everything. She was probably scared to death to tell you and wanted to make sure you really loved her, for her, before telling you. Maybe she should have told you sooner, but other men had probably bailed when she told them sooner. She wanted to make sure you'd stick around.
I have a great deal of compassion for any woman that found herself in that situation, and was able to realize, that she didn't want it anymore, and wanted something better for herself. That fact that she wants you, means she doesn't want that kind of life anymore, and she realizes she deserves better.
Her past, is just that, her past. And also remember, that women tend to be more forgiving of things like this. For example, if you had told her you used to be a male porn star, she'd probably have no problem with it and still want a life with you. So take that into consideration. She loves you, for you. Show her the same respect. If you're happy together, then make a life with each other. Life is short and true love is hard to find. Give her a chance to show you how much she loves you by giving her a chance. | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/28/2008 1:49:14 PM |
and yet I've heard nothing about any escort or callgirl being infected with HIV or any other STD in the Toronto escort scene. (and yes I do view the message boards)
In fact, you made a claim, without offering proof.
I found an article to contradict your point. Published an excerpt and a link. At which point you complained that my proof was 10 years ago? (was there a time limit on said proof?)
Show me some statistics and studies from a credible source (not a news story) and maybe I'll believe you. Not every prostitute is the same.
Then you went on to insist further proof be from a source other than the news. As if the News would make up what is in the court record. I would assume that the court record is a credible source.
yet three women caught HIV from a guy in my college residence.
Again, you make an unverifiable claim. In fact, I would wonder how you were so privy to their sexual health. Or was this just an in school rumour? | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/28/2008 2:39:29 PM | Not every prostitute is the same
And not every prostitute is Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman either.
Thinking somehow that prostitutes have a heart of Gold and all the crap is about as believable as the Oil companies are not trying to make a profit and that politicians are honest.
Some prostitutes are turning tricks from about 1opm to 5Am. That's 7 hours, all she's gotta do is blow 2 guys an hour and she's done 14 guys!
Don't want to take the risk? fine, don't. but don't assume every prostitute is the same. Majority of escorts are actually quite clean.
I'm sure the majority of escorts ARE clean. Because once they find out they've got something they hopefully stop escorting.
Also, there are not that many cases of HIV among women to begin with in Toronto. It's about 500 new cases a year and 80% of them are going to be males. So basically Toronto women with HIV are pretty scarce to begin with. | |
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| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/28/2008 7:04:04 PM | Thanks LakeCountyGal, I don't think that I'm anything special, tho. There are plenty of men who would've accepted that history without hesitation, whereas it took a little while for me to come to terms with it.
And to address all these tangential discussions going on in this thread, she does not have STDs. I know this 100% for sure. So it's okay if you have an opinion to say to me, good or bad, but STDs are just a total non-issue. | |
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TPNW
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Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 249 | |
| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/28/2008 8:18:43 PM | Personally I would date or her be able to trust her. I would be happy she was honest about her past but i would pass. I wouldnt want to get past it. The atonement she feels from this is her problem not yours! You have every right to be more than weary. Any woman that would rather sell herself then work like a lady does is not worth my time.
As far as being her friend goes though I believe its not where you have been but where you are going. But her mistake and it was indeed a mistake will cost her. | |
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Zain.
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Joined: 9/20/2005
Msg: 250 | |
| She used to do escort. How can I get past this tough time and move past her history?
Posted: 11/29/2008 3:10:51 PM | "In fact, you made a claim, without offering proof"
You're Wrong, I never made any absolute claims I said I never HEARD of any HIV outbreaks amoung the escort population. Atleast not any that have occured in the last few years. There are literally hundreds of escorts in Toronto and according to the article three (out of the hundreds available) were infected with HIV. That's probably not even 2% of the escort population.
"I found an article to contradict your point. Published an excerpt and a link. At which point you complained that my proof was 10 years ago? (was there a time limit on said proof?)"
You said to me I should "learn to read the news" or something to that effect I do read news just not outdated news from a decade ago. You're correct you did provide proof . It's possible that there were people being infected with HIV amoung the escort population. (It is possible they caught it because they didnt use protection with their clients) Not a single person being infected with HIV in the last ten years? to me it's an acceptable risk. It shows that they are being more careful.
"Then you went on to insist further proof be from a source other than the news. As if the News would make up what is in the court record. I would assume that the court record is a credible source. "
News is often misinterpeted and misconstrued (lol fox news for example) Futhermore I asked you to provide proof in regards to your statement that the average prostitute sees 15 clients a day I'd still like to know where you got that number from.
Again, you make an unverifiable claim. In fact, I would wonder how you were so privy to their sexual health. Or was this just an in school rumour? "
Actually I'm not, I was there when one of the girls confessed to me and my roomate she was HIV positive and she knew who she got it from At this point the entire residence floor knew. Unless she was lying (and I really don't see why anyone would lie about something like that)
How many people amoung the civilian population are HIV positive? do you really think only escorts can get the disease? | |
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