|
|
|
|
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/11/2008 7:04:29 AM | Wow, do I hope you're wrong.
It would be a (pleasant) surprise if I were wrong, but I am quite certain that I am not. Experiments have proven a 100% correspondence between consciousness and physical brain activity (not just waking either, this includes dreams.)
In the incredibly unlikely event that there is some sort of "other side", we will not know it until we get there, since nobody has ever come back to tell us about it. (Note: NDEs don't count, since those people did not actually die. Jesus doesn't count either, since the bible , like all religious texts, is a work of fiction.) | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/11/2008 7:39:41 AM | Of course I know nothing about this, but I'm guessing that if a soul did exist, it wouldn't be measured as consciousness or physical brain activity. That is, if scientists are looking for consciousness in a corpse, then perhaps they're looking in the wrong place; I think "if" a soul existed and left the body at death, it would be difficult for us to capture that.
Certainly I have no evidence that anyone has come back to visit me from the other side, but some people think they have been visited by spirits, and I must admit that that would be comforting.
Why we humans harbour this need for spirituality is interesting to me, and I'm no exception; I find my logical, scientific side and inate spiritual side are often at odds. | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/12/2008 12:24:56 AM | >>>I think "if" a soul existed and left the body at death, it would be difficult for us to capture that.
You see, science doesn't work like that. I could say that all my hunger phsyically exists in my Stomach- and when I die, it leaves my body- thats all fine and well, but when we discovered what causes hunger pains, I can't be projecting my expectations in hopes to find the phsyical manifestation of my hunger, which conviently enough I announced exists in a form invisable to all forms of sense, including those which we do not possess, and is entirely impossible prove it exists. Just like how we understand what causes hunger, we understand where our thoughts come from- remove the brain from the equation, and all thoughts end- so to say that all thoughts require a brain, but once you die an invisible force that cannot be proven to exist leaves your body, and the fact that you cannot disprove its existance proves its existance- DOES NOT PROVE IT EXISTS.
Would it be more comforting if a soul existed? Yes! Of course it would! It would also be more comforting to think that cats are people, and if you surround yourself with cats that you are the most popular person on the block- but that doesn't negate the fact that you are projecting a reality rather than perceiving it, and you would be a crazy cat lady. | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/12/2008 11:14:43 AM | Again intoart, I don't entirely agree with you. Experiments have shown correspondence with brain activity and concious and unconcious reaction to stimuli but conciousness itself is an emergent property - in some ways making conciousness more than the sum of the parts. And there are serious scientists still investigating whether there is something about conciousness that does make it more than the sum of the brain's parts.
I think your use of the word "unlikely" is apt, however. Skeptical and even more cynical people look for absolutism in science but, fundamentally, science can only speak in terms of probability. QM is the realm of probability and we can say that something on the macro scale will behave a certain way according to the laws of General Relativity. The fact that both are mutually exclusive sets of laws operating simultaneously in one universe points to the probability that both are part of an overriding set of laws.
Also, I'll give the Bible a few other benefits of the doubt. A: there is some archaeologically proveable aspects to the narrative. On the literary side, it is a beautiful piece of narrative - like Shakespeare, the language can be quite beautiful. Thirdly, it's also a lovely piece of collaborative literature. However, one person I know also calls it the "rule book on people you should hate." Sadly, that's how many do seem to interpret it. | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/13/2008 5:58:10 AM |
Again intoart, I don't entirely agree with you. Experiments have shown correspondence with brain activity and concious and unconcious reaction to stimuli but conciousness itself is an emergent property - in some ways making conciousness more than the sum of the parts. And there are serious scientists still investigating whether there is something about conciousness that does make it more than the sum of the brain's parts.
Oh, I agree with the idea that consciousness is an emergent property, and even with the notion that it might be (in some sense) "more than the sum of the brain's parts". What I cannot accept is the idea that it could possibly exist without a living brain (or at least a mechanism analogous to the brain, such as an ultra-sophisticated computer.) | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/13/2008 6:24:48 AM | Those shows are a joke. Some of those places were they get so much on tape but they never stick around? Come on give me a break.
Given that yes ghost,spirits or whatever they are definately exist. My house was occupied so to speak pretty bad for awhile. About twice or more a week one of them would pound on the wall next to you . After maybe the 5th time i got used to it but since my bed was pushed against the wall it was annoying if it happened there.
There was one instance that outside my bedroom i kept hearing paceing steps back and forth in the hallway. When someone walks by my door you can see the shadow underneath, but this time no shadow and i knew i was alone. I finaly got the courage to open the door ,probably the most scared i have ever been and when i did it stopped. I actually left the house that evening for a day. One day it all stopped and was over. I havent had one single instance since. It might have been the man who lived and died here. I also have a cemetary for my backyard so who knows. I actually miss it,i feel like i kicked someone out. | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/13/2008 6:48:12 AM |
There was one instance that outside my bedroom i kept hearing paceing steps back and forth in the hallway. When someone walks by my door you can see the shadow underneath, but this time no shadow and i knew i was alone. I finaly got the courage to open the door ,probably the most scared i have ever been and when i did it stopped. I actually left the house that evening for a day.
Have you considered seeing a therapist? It sounds like you are suffereing from some form of psychosis! | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/13/2008 6:55:05 AM | Ah yes. Because you have not seen or experienced it then it automaticly does not exist and anyone who has is automaticly nuts.
Oh i see this is the classic science has yet to prove it so it is wrong. Because science has NEVER been wrong. I suppose you only believe what science origionaly proved and not corrected? I'll be careful not to fall off the edge of the world on my next cruise while the rest of the universe revolves around us. | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/13/2008 8:44:20 AM |
Ah yes. Because you have not seen or experienced it then it automaticly does not exist and anyone who has is automaticly nuts.
Wrong. For example, I have not seen or experienced black holes, but I know that they exist because they have been proven to exist.
Oh i see this is the classic science has yet to prove it so it is wrong.
A little closer, but still wrong. It is not that science has yet to proven the existence of ghosts, but rather that every claim about ghosts that has been scientifically investigated has been proven false. There is always a rational explanation.
Because science has NEVER been wrong. I suppose you only believe what science origionaly proved and not corrected? I'll be careful not to fall off the edge of the world on my next cruise while the rest of the universe revolves around us.
This is the same garbage that religious zealots and other antirational types always spew in a pathetic attempt to discredit science. Science is an attempt to find the clearest explanation for the facts. The explanations become more refined, but the facts do not change (and ghosts are not a fact.)
As for the "edge of the world" comment, science has never accepted that superstition. The ancient Greeks knew that the earth was a sphere (and even a good estimate of the diameter) before the modern scientific method was formulated. | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/13/2008 9:30:31 AM | So logicly then unless it's been proven to exist,before then it did not exist. Case in point black holes did not exist up until the very moment they were "proven" to exist. Before then they just existed in the minds and imaginations of those that had known they were real but could'nt yet prove that they were. I missed the memo that was put out saying that ever single thing that exist has been documented by science.
I never attempted to discredit science. What it was never wrong? Jesus i keep missing these memos.. Oops correction , For science sakes i keep missing these memos | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/13/2008 12:54:36 PM | Science is the means to prove an objective reality- since everyone in existance can only observe reality through their own conciousness- their own assumptions, their own prejudices, their own observations and, yes, their own hypothesises- science is the means to observe reality outside of all that.
By saying ghosts exist because there are things science does not know- yes- you were attempting to discredit science. Worse still, you are attempting to create acceptance in a world not of the unknown, but that great horror, the unknowable. The belief that any belief, any notion you hold can be protected against scunity by issuing the words "we just don't know for sure, so it must be true", and claiming to still believe in science is trampling over what science represents
You have no proof of ghosts- only proof of the unexplained. It could be rodents in your hallways and in your walls- it could be angry neighbours, restless children- the fact that it only occurs in your bedroom could easily support the notion that you were tired, and were experiencing a nightmare- you could have been ill, or on drugs, and simply hallicuated, maybe you feel self-concious, and lonely, and feel the need for something exceptional in your life- or, yes, you could have had a mental issue. All of these are logical- all of these happen everyday to millions of people around the world- but you refuse to accept any alterative except the notion that everything of a objective reality is flawed and wrong, and you've witnessed it firsthand.
Science is not the pursuit of an objective reality until it contradicts with your own observations, at which point you are simply ahead of the curve. If this were true, all it would take to destory science is the proclaimations of confident people of any notion that pops in their head.
To be perfectly clear- the belief that there exists a lifeform that has no beating heart, no blood, no brain- a being that does not breath, or eat, or shit- a being that cannot be touched, that can walk through any surface as if it was not there- a being that can choose to be visable or invisable at will, that can choose to interact with the enviroment or be completely etheral- a being that does not age, and cannot die- this is a being that only a 3 year old could come up with, because it defies everything we understand in the known universe simply because you could not understand what that noise was in your walls, and arrogently and proudly refuse to accept that you may simply be misinterpreting the situation. | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/13/2008 2:22:21 PM | Well, I guess I'm psychotic, too, because I experienced the loud bangings on my wall , which incidentally were always on the wall next to my bed.
I didn't say that I believed it was a ghost, because I am a scientist by training, and for me to believe in ghosts, they would have to be measurable and we'd have to have a working definition of their characteristics so that I had something to compare my experience against.
However, since in our society some people do believe in ghosts, I think it's highly unfair to label someone as pyschotic because they choose to adopt that hypothesis for events that they can't explain.
Basically, by that definition, everyone who believes in Jesus or God must be psychotic, too, right? | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/13/2008 8:05:35 PM | | Where is the wet wall in your house? My house has banging noises all the time, when people in the neighborhood turn their water on and off. Just sayin', is all. | |
|
| |
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:47:14 AM | Let's see, what are the other most likely explanations?
Bed banging against wall (hey, I don't know the timing of these noises :wink: )
Expansion or contraction of the heating ducts
Expansion or contraction of the house or parts thereof (you'd see this as "usually a certain number of hours or minutes after sunset/sunrise")
Wind causing minor alterations in the geometry of the house.
Animals in or on the house (I had woodpeckers on my house in NH all the time. Usually on the aluminum downspouts.)
Someone else screwing with you.
If you can conclusively eliminate all of the above...
then you need to keep looking, because there is an answer. :smile: | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/14/2008 1:18:32 PM | I SAW a ghost dog this halloween!
I was walking towards a group of people who were about 10 feet away walking towards me. Down between the legs of the people in the middle of the group was a a little white puppy that looked like a Bichon Frise on a leash. It was so cute as it trotted along trying to keep up with the big people. As I turned my head to tell my daughter to look at the puppy, it disappeared. Mind you - I had not looked away, I was just getting ready to turn and it vanished - like out of my periphery. I did a double take to see if someone had picked it up or if it had dashed off to the other side of the group but it was gone and the group of people just walked right by with no dog in hand or in tow. It was like one minute it was there and the next it was gone.
I looked around to see if there were any other small dogs, thinking maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me, but there were no small dogs, no puppies and nothing that looked like a Bichon Frise in the area. I wanted to follow them and ask if they had a puppy but I figured with it being Halloween and all, they would think I was a nut.
I've been puzzling about it ever since. Has anyone else see a ghost animal? | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/14/2008 8:59:24 PM | I think that your judgment of people who believe in spirits as "silly" and "foolish" is quite ignorant. For thousands of years, billions of people have believed in spirits and that there is a far more extensive consciousness than is apparent to the naked eye. Just because you personally have not experienced this super-consciousness does not mean it doesn't exist.
Judith | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/14/2008 9:50:25 PM | >>>For thousands of years, billions of people have believed in spirits and that there is a far more extensive consciousness than is apparent to the naked eye. Just because you personally have not experienced this super-consciousness does not mean it doesn't exist.
You're kidding me, right? That logic can be used to prove or disprove anything in the known universe;
In Anicent Greece, an entire civilization believed in the existance of half man, half Bull creatures- is claiming that those creatures do not exist ignorant by that line of reasoning- that so many people believed it that it must be true? In Anicent Eygpt, they believed so whole-heartly that their leaders were Gods, that hundreds, if not thousands of people were worked to death constructing monuments to these 'Gods'- does the fact that these people felt that they were correct make it correct? Even today, there have been thousands of reports of Elvis being alive- does that mean that, using your own logic that since other people believe it, that in order not to be ignorant, you would have to believe Elvis is still somewhere on this Earth?
I choose my own beliefs- and I'm not afraid to question the half-hearted beliefs of others- esspeically in a topic intended solely for that purpose. If people feel passionate about their beliefs or believe it in great numbers does not make fact, and anyone who actually forms their opinion not based on their own examination of the concept but on the assurances that others believe it no longer earns the title of an individual.
There are alot of things left open to interpretation to life- but if we're talking about evidence, there is ZERO evidence that a being devoid of all the laws of reality that we follow leaves your body when you die. People hypothesised it becuase they experienced things they could not explain- they still do to this day- but theres just as much evidence as reincarnation, or that you're transported to a magical land where you're a talking cabbage. Its an assumption- people projecting their reality rather than perceiving it. | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/15/2008 10:26:42 PM | Question --
--- if there are Ghosts,, and Reincarnation exists ----who are the Ghosts …?? | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/15/2008 11:14:05 PM | The ghosts are echos of you Page 2u. They are echos of you.
I figured if I said it twice my goofy bullshit would seem more mysterious.  | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/16/2008 1:01:28 AM | | hi... denying that Jesus existed means denying scholars and historians and records.. do you really think that the thousands who saw Him were hallucinating... His death was recorded and He purposely showed Himself to dozens of people after He rose and they in turn recorded that..for the record, Christ was obedient to Gods Laws therefore ~God~ raised Him from death, He did not raise Himself nor can any man raise himself ... we in obedience can also be raised ~by God~ from death to Eternal life .. the point however is that this does not occur randomly, it occurs 2 times... once at the 2nd coming of Christ where the people who love Gods Laws meet Christ in the clouds and then go to heaven, for a 1000 yrs... the 2nd rising occurs at Christs 3rd return to earth but this time the haters of Gods Law will be raised to face judgement and to receive their eternal death.... "ghosts" are either the minions of satan who were also cast down with him from Heaven or they are the workings of vivid imaginations... ghosts are never humans who have returned from the dead , it is trickery meant to discredit the Word of God.. even if you choose not to believe in God , which would take less faith than believing that a dead person can call himself back to life, you would still have to believe in some power that could jolt people back from the dead, so why not believe in God.... I am sure that people were presumed dead who were not truly dead, such as the many cases of people being buried alive or frozen to near death yet they still were not truly clinically dead... belief is personal and as varied as cultures are varied so there is no wonder that we have such differences in what we believe in ... Truth is what it is and in time Truth will be revealed to us all...... blessings, warmly Mona | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/16/2008 1:56:06 AM | I believe in things I see. So I believe in things I can't explain, or can only interpret to my own understanding. So, yes, I believe in "ghosts" or beings who choose to be seen, heard, or who want to get our attention. I also believe in "guardian angels" as I have been told that I have 24 of them (I am a needy person {giggles}) according to someone who knows these things. And, while I have not 'seen' one, I have seen the effects of something guarding over me, directing me, helping to spare my life.
There is no reason to be afraid of ghosts, from my experience. Actually I quite enjoy the activity. | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/16/2008 4:43:56 AM | That depends what one means by ghosts. Do I believe the dead are ghosts? No. Are there ghosts? Are there spirits? Are there other entities? I believe so.
Now by my not believing and believing, only shows what I think is true. As far as I know there are no accepted valid scientific evidence one way or the other. | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/16/2008 9:29:29 AM | I think what we, see, hear and touch is, a very narrow bandwidth of what exists.
If we look through an inferred scope, we see something that dose not look altogether human.
Existence is a frequency --
We can perceive all that is within our scope or bandwidth.
I think some people maybe 5-- 10% of the world’s population can or have step outside of the normal perception.
What they report is called—apparitions, allusions, non-tangibles.
However--- they are no less real than a radio frequency.
Electromagnetic—scale..
Perhaps a good metaphor would be---a ladder--- that represents all that is.
Each rung of the ladder is a different frequency, we can’t see the top.
We are just somewhere on the ladder, totally aware of where we stand, and each step up we get a better view.
As for the religious aspect of this thread, I think literal interpretation of any biblical text is a dangerous direction... ‘However’ to ignore the scriptures would be an even greater loss.
monalee1
—don’t stop, how you interpret and how others think, may be different---
But your source represents some of the greatest thoughts known to humans, ----and ---you’re a good writer…
Funny how the bible is filled --- with the Holy Ghost….smile… | |
|
| Do You Believe In Ghosts?
Posted: 11/16/2008 1:56:54 PM | Existence is a frequency -- No. But frequencies are in existence. And we are only able to see a small sliver of what we call light. And only measure and observe the broader spectrum which our instruments can detect. | |
|
|
| Page 2 of 12
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 |
|
Home
login 
